Athletics Feat is a Raw Deal

[Jim Callaghan]

It seems to me that a feat that adds a +2 bonus to one skill that many people will use, and +2 to one skill that only a few people will use (people who won't be using much of the other skill) is a raw deal. I understand that with skill consolidation, many feats had to get shuffled around, but I think it could have been done better. Case in point: a feat called "Acrobatics" which gives a bonus to the Acrobatics skill is kind of silly. How about this:
Athletics: +2 to Climb and Swim
Deceitful: +2 to Bluff and Sense Motive
Nimble: +2 to Acrobatics and Escape Artist
Stealthy: +2 to Disguise and Stealth

Actually that last one has much the same problem as the Acrobatic feat. But I hope you get my point anyway. No "Fly and Swim" feat. Please.

[JoelF847]

Hopefully Beta will simply have 1 feat that lets you pick 2 skills using the same ability modifier to get a +2.

[lastknightleft]

JoelF847 wrote:

Hopefully Beta will simply have 1 feat that lets you pick 2 skills using the same ability modifier to get a +2.

I don't know how I feel about that, yeah it saves space, but then you'll have characters with + 2 to swim and linguistics

[Shisumo]

lastknightleft wrote:

JoelF847 wrote:

Hopefully Beta will simply have 1 feat that lets you pick 2 skills using the same ability modifier to get a +2.

I don't know how I feel about that, yeah it saves space, but then you'll have characters with + 2 to swim and linguistics

"The same ability modifier."

[veector]

lastknightleft wrote:

JoelF847 wrote:

Hopefully Beta will simply have 1 feat that lets you pick 2 skills using the same ability modifier to get a +2.

I don't know how I feel about that, yeah it saves space, but then you'll have characters with + 2 to swim and linguistics

Aquaman - Add +2 to your Swim and Linguistics (marine animals) skills

[Seldriss]

I don't agree that Climbling and Swimming should be combined.
They have nothing in common.
A mountaineer doesn't necessary know how to swim, and a swimmer is not necessary a climber.
Athletics should combine Jump and Run, maybe with Climb, but certainly not Swim.
As a matter of fact, the ability to know how to swim should be rare.
Very few sailors actually knew how to swim in the old times.

[JoelF847]

Seldriss wrote:

Very few sailors actually knew ho to swim in the old times.

While this is true, in real world history, there were not intelligent aquatic preditors that attacks ships and coastal areas. I think in a world where there were threats from the sea, a lot more people who lived on or near the sea would learn to swim so they weren't completely hosed if dragged underwater. Not to mention adventures who explored dungeons and caves with underground rivers, etc.

[Kirth Gersen]

Seldriss wrote:

A mountaineer doesn't necessary know how to swim, and a swimmer is not necessary a climber.

Yes, it's fairly unrealistic, but then again, so are wizards.

Combining Climb and Swim makes sense for the people who don't mind sacrificing a bit more versimilitude in exchange for streamlined play (example: making a barbarian or ranger character, you'd naturally want both skills anyway, so combining them saves a step and promotes "one-stop shopping").

For people who prefer clearer logic, keeping ALL the skills separate and using synergy bonuses (as in 3.5) is probably the way to go.

Luckily, each group can decide for themselves which route they want to go: all the tools you need are out there now. I'm not worried about what the "official" combinations end up being, because my group already has our own preferred ones.