Highest level played


4th Edition

Dark Archive

What's the highest level PC you've played so far and what'd you think of the experience? For me, they were two PCs: a 5th level warlock and a 5th level wizard. They were pre-gens and I found them very easy to use primarily because of the limited powers.

Dark Archive

My PCs are only up to 2nd right now, but I was thinking on doing some solo playtesting for later adventures to see if my Pathfinder-to-4E monster conversions work out. So far, though, it looks like the gradual increase in number of powers makes it pretty simple to grasp as you go along. The difference in PC "bookkeeping" (for lack of a better term) between levels is pretty small, so while it may be hard for a person to go from their 3rd level Warlord to a 20th level one in one jump, the progression of powers gained over time should be pretty easy to grasp.


One character up to 4th-level (almost 5th), and two others at 3rd. I'm remaking an older fighter that started in 2E, migrated to 3E, and will now be going into 4E at 14th-level.


4th level halfing rogue


I had a party of seven jump into action with 7th level PCs, and I don't recommend it for 4e novices. They had 2 additional encounter powers, 1 additional daily power, 2 utility powers, 3 feats, and 3 magic items (usually with powers) compared to 1st level characters. That's a lot of options to track.


Derek Poppink wrote:
I had a party of seven jump into action with 7th level PCs, and I don't recommend it for 4e novices. They had 2 additional encounter powers, 1 additional daily power, 2 utility powers, 3 feats, and 3 magic items (usually with powers) compared to 1st level characters. That's a lot of options to track.

Yeah, I think I'm a bit more disappointed in the 'simplification' than I thought I'd be.

It used to be that clerics and (most especially) wizards had lots of abilities (spells) to choose from -- sorcerors were a bit better off, and everyone else had relatively few choices in combat.

Now a 7th level character (any class) has to choose from around 9 powers -- just for combat -- in addition to those carried by magic items. That's a lot.

I haven't tried it yet, but I'm going to be a bit skeptical about play at higher levels for a while.

Scarab Sages

Adventure Path Charter Subscriber

We will be playing 10th level PCs in the next couple of weeks. My biggest concern is that the typically slow people at low level play will be even slower...

I may need to implement a time limit.


You realy need to start at level 1 I think with 4E.

Just as I wouldn't recommend a new player to 3E starting with a 10th level fighter, I seriously don't recommend a new player starting with a 10th level fighter in 4e.


Tatterdemalion wrote:

Yeah, I think I'm a bit more disappointed in the 'simplification' than I thought I'd be.

It used to be that clerics and (most especially) wizards had lots of abilities (spells) to choose from -- sorcerors were a bit better off, and everyone else had relatively few choices in combat.

Now a 7th level character (any class) has to choose from around 9 powers -- just for combat -- in addition to those carried by magic items. That's a lot.

I haven't tried it yet, but I'm going to be a bit skeptical about play at higher levels for a while.

One thing to keep in mind is that, if you play a character from start to finish, those extra options are going to be pretty natural to you - whereas diving into a new high-level character will be somewhat overwhelming when faced with the options.

Which means as long as you've are playing a character regularly, the options won't be a challenge - whereas if you are handed a pregen for a level 20 character, mastering it isn't going to be easy.

But I suspect most games will fall into the first category (ongoing games) than the second - and even when dealing with the options, it is certainly an improvement over the overwhelming number of capabilities of spellcasters in the last edition.

Dark Archive

Matthew Koelbl wrote:
But I suspect most games will fall into the first category (ongoing games) than the second - and even when dealing with the options, it is certainly an improvement over the overwhelming number of capabilities of spellcasters in the last edition.

Huh? As DM and frequent player of Wizards or Sorcerers I have to say that every Player worth his salt should know his spells in and out if he plays in an ONGOING game.


Tharen the Damned wrote:


Huh? As DM and frequent player of Wizards or Sorcerers I have to say that every Player worth his salt should know his spells in and out if he plays in an ONGOING game.

Eh, I don't know about that. There are enough spells that it is nearly impossible to know exactly how each functions, even for a truly dedicated, hardcore player. Throw in changes to rarely used spells that my group STILL trips over from the 3.0 to 3.5 change and I think you can make a good argument that 3E characters probably don't know what every spell they can cast does.

For example, for the first time last night I learned Remove Disease kills green molds and the like. I had no idea whatsoever it had that ability. Trust me when I say I am a very hardcore DnD-er, however. ;)

Dark Archive

David Marks wrote:

Eh, I don't know about that. There are enough spells that it is nearly impossible to know exactly how each functions, even for a truly dedicated, hardcore player. Throw in changes to rarely used spells that my group STILL trips over from the 3.0 to 3.5 change and I think you can make a good argument that 3E characters probably don't know what every spell they can cast does.

For example, for the first time last night I learned Remove Disease kills green molds and the like. I had no idea whatsoever it had that ability. Trust me when I say I am a very hardcore DnD-er, however. ;)

I meant that every Player who plays his Arcane Spellcaster since Level 1 in a campaign should know the spells he memorizes or his known spells very well.

Of course there are always some details that have to be looked up.
I think questions like: Was the range medium or long? are normal IMO. Questions like, so how does telekineses work again? are not.
Divine Spellcaster Players have it much much harder harder as they have no spellbook/known spell and to all Spells on the Cleric Spell list.
If Remove Disease is a standard spell in your Clerics repertoire, you should know that it kills green Molds.
If, on the other hand, you only choose this spell once in a while it is normal that you are not this familiar with the Spell.


Tharen the Damned wrote:

I meant that every Player who plays his Arcane Spellcaster since Level 1 in a campaign should know the spells he memorizes or his known spells very well.
Of course there are always some details that have to be looked up.
I think questions like: Was the range medium or long? are normal IMO. Questions like, so how does telekineses work again? are not.
Divine Spellcaster Players have it much much harder harder as they have no spellbook/known spell and to all Spells on the Cleric Spell list.
If Remove Disease is a standard spell in your Clerics repertoire, you should know that it kills green Molds.
If, on the other hand, you only choose this spell once in a while it is normal that you are not this familiar with the Spell.

I'll grant you that a caster with a more limited list of spells is better off than the ones without, but I don't think Matthew made that distinction.

More generally, even a caster with a very narrow set of spells they can cast can easily come into possession of a scroll/wand that lets them cast spells they aren't familiar with. 3E has a metric ton of spells, and I don't think anyone can really, honestly, claim to know precisely how ALL of them work.

That isn't a bad thing, btw, just a truth in numbers. :)


Tharen the Damned wrote:
Matthew Koelbl wrote:
But I suspect most games will fall into the first category (ongoing games) than the second - and even when dealing with the options, it is certainly an improvement over the overwhelming number of capabilities of spellcasters in the last edition.

Huh? As DM and frequent player of Wizards or Sorcerers I have to say that every Player worth his salt should know his spells in and out if he plays in an ONGOING game.

I'm probably slightly biased since my last 3rd Edition character was a high level cleric, whose open-ended spell access meant I had hundreds of options to choose from every day.

Sure, I knew my most commonly used spells and typically memorized lists - but someone would ask if I knew a spell that, say, let me manipulate water, and I'd have to go hunting through a dozen books to find out for sure.

But even with that aside, looking at a wizard or sorcerer, you still have a significant number of options at any given time. And this can be a good thing, sure, and there is nothing quite as cool as having the right spell for the occasion - but the thread at hand was discussing how despite 4E's goal of 'simplification', you could still end up with a dozen different options in any given round.

I was simply stating that having those dozen options is still significantly fewer number of options than most spellcasters would have had in 3rd Edition. It wasn't to say that spellcasters weren't playable in 3rd Ed - just that while the number of options for them in 4E has not dropped to 0, it is undeniably an improvement in terms of reducing complexity.

To be fair, the 'overwhelming' term is only really applicable at higher levels - spellcasters do start off slow and build up at the mid-levels, which I didn't really make mention of.

Dark Archive

Matthew Koelbl wrote:
- long post-

I agree with you on all this.

But again, we will have to see how all the otions of a high level 4th edition PC can be used in actual play.
Due to the nature of 4th spells/powers have much more tactical influence. It can be more important to slide an enemy or give it a crtain condition that do xdy damage.
Therefore a high level spellcaster - or more general: a high level PC-might have to go through his list of powers and evaluate which to use this round. He has to take into account th possible tactical ramification his action has on the other PCs.
So it might be that in the end, high level 4th PCs are as complex to play as 3rd PCs.
But again, I have not played a High level 4th PC yet and this is all guesswork.
And last but not least, so far we only have the PHB powers. No Splatbooks yet.


Tharen the Damned wrote:


I agree with you on all this.

But again, we will have to see how all the otions of a high level 4th edition PC can be used in actual play.
Due to the nature of 4th spells/powers have much more tactical influence. It can be more important to slide an enemy or give it a crtain condition that do xdy damage.
Therefore a high level spellcaster - or more general: a high level PC-might have to go through his list of powers and evaluate which to use this round. He has to take into account th possible tactical ramification his action has on the other PCs.
So it might be that in the end, high level 4th PCs are as complex to play as 3rd PCs.
But again, I have not played a High level 4th PC yet and this is all guesswork.
And last but not least, so far we only have the PHB powers. No Splatbooks yet.

One thing to consider re: splat books exacerbating the choice of which power to use is that the splat books will (presumably) not be changing the number of powers each character gets. So picking your power when you level might be a more difficult decision, choosing which power to use will always be from the same number of options.

Cheers! :)


Tharen the Damned wrote:
Matthew Koelbl wrote:
- long post-

I agree with you on all this.

But again, we will have to see how all the otions of a high level 4th edition PC can be used in actual play.
Due to the nature of 4th spells/powers have much more tactical influence. It can be more important to slide an enemy or give it a crtain condition that do xdy damage.
Therefore a high level spellcaster - or more general: a high level PC-might have to go through his list of powers and evaluate which to use this round. He has to take into account th possible tactical ramification his action has on the other PCs.
So it might be that in the end, high level 4th PCs are as complex to play as 3rd PCs.
But again, I have not played a High level 4th PC yet and this is all guesswork.
And last but not least, so far we only have the PHB powers. No Splatbooks yet.

Thing about this is that it fairly quickly becomes second nature. At 1st level you have a bunch of abilities. This in many ways is the toughest part. Nonetheless you'll soon memorize the 5 or so powers you have. Sure it might take multiple sessions but its not that much information. Especially considering that you'll pick abilities to be diverse. One will be the hit a single target hard ability another does less damage to many enemies etc. You can also easily make up cards with the powers on them making this even easier.

After 1st your adding a new power about once every two or so levels. Its just such a slow rate of addition that I'm sure almost anyone will quickly figure out their new power before the next one gets added.

The rituals will probably never be memorized by most people but their useless in combat so its less of an issue if one has to look them up.

Sovereign Court

David Marks wrote:
Tharen the Damned wrote:


Huh? As DM and frequent player of Wizards or Sorcerers I have to say that every Player worth his salt should know his spells in and out if he plays in an ONGOING game.

Eh, I don't know about that. There are enough spells that it is nearly impossible to know exactly how each functions, even for a truly dedicated, hardcore player. Throw in changes to rarely used spells that my group STILL trips over from the 3.0 to 3.5 change and I think you can make a good argument that 3E characters probably don't know what every spell they can cast does.

For example, for the first time last night I learned Remove Disease kills green molds and the like. I had no idea whatsoever it had that ability. Trust me when I say I am a very hardcore DnD-er, however. ;)

I would say that most D&D players, especially those that play spellcasters a lot, know a lot of the basic spells from the PHB forward and backwards. When you get into spells from other books it can get trickier. If a player is serious about playing his character, he should know enough about he spells his character regualarly uses to not even have to look them up during the game. Since 4E is so new, everyone is going to have to work extra hard to get a hnadle on their abilities, and their are no "simple, basic" classes like the 3.5 fighter. Everyone will probably have to look up their powers and feats, etc. quite often until they get a lot of experience with the system and their characters under their belt.


11th level. Paragon-tier is huge amounts of fun, even compared to heroic.


Scott Betts wrote:
11th level. Paragon-tier is huge amounts of fun, even compared to heroic.

[english accent]Whell, 'dis won goes to eleven, doesn'it? See, you go all daaway up to 10...an' where do you go? ...no where..But this one, it goes to 11, das right. It's one better. It's one more level ah' fun. [/english accent]

Community / Forums / Gamer Life / Gaming / D&D / 4th Edition / Highest level played All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.
Recent threads in 4th Edition