Beta Preview 2 Blog


Lost Omens Campaign Setting General Discussion

Scarab Sages

Paizo Blog wrote:
There are dozens of other small changes to the rules as well. Favored Classes now grant a bonus hit point or a bonus skill point.

I cannot begin to describe the awesomeness of this genius minor change. Now you can make the intelligent human fighter and get a reasonable amount of skill points (minimum 4 with 10 Int) if you choose! Or make a sturdy halfling rogue with decent hp (maximum 9 with 10 Con).

Such a small change, but enough to make me dismiss one of my final criticisms of the PRPG system (not enought fighter skill points)!


I like the idea of specialist wizards picking a permanent bonus spell. It's like the Domain Wizard variant (from Unearthed Arcana), but you get to make your own domain!

Dark Archive

Well, by giving specialist wizards and clerics bonus spells, that's a huge step towards keeping backwards compatability.

Now my hope is they've balanced the specialist schools and domains so they are all equally good character choices...

Sovereign Court RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8

Jal Dorak wrote:
Paizo Blog wrote:
There are dozens of other small changes to the rules as well. Favored Classes now grant a bonus hit point or a bonus skill point.

I cannot begin to describe the awesomeness of this genius minor change. Now you can make the intelligent human fighter and get a reasonable amount of skill points (minimum 4 with 10 Int) if you choose! Or make a sturdy halfling rogue with decent hp (maximum 9 with 10 Con).

Such a small change, but enough to make me dismiss one of my final criticisms of the PRPG system (not enought fighter skill points)!

I agree. I'd loved that Half Elves were more playable before, now I can make them good skill monkey fighters as well


After two of three players rolled sub-10 on their Int scores, and went with 2 skill point classes, this will be most welcome I think :)

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber
Jal Dorak wrote:
Paizo Blog wrote:
There are dozens of other small changes to the rules as well. Favored Classes now grant a bonus hit point or a bonus skill point.

I cannot begin to describe the awesomeness of this genius minor change. Now you can make the intelligent human fighter and get a reasonable amount of skill points (minimum 4 with 10 Int) if you choose! Or make a sturdy halfling rogue with decent hp (maximum 9 with 10 Con).

Such a small change, but enough to make me dismiss one of my final criticisms of the PRPG system (not enought fighter skill points)!

Woohoo! Giving the option was one of my suggestions! (Though I doubt I was the only one to offer it...)


hogarth wrote:
I like the idea of specialist wizards picking a permanent bonus spell. It's like the Domain Wizard variant (from Unearthed Arcana), but you get to make your own domain!

Question: Do you think the bonus spells will count against spells per day?

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Companion, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Gnome-Eater wrote:
hogarth wrote:
I like the idea of specialist wizards picking a permanent bonus spell. It's like the Domain Wizard variant (from Unearthed Arcana), but you get to make your own domain!
Question: Do you think the bonus spells will count against spells per day?

Answer: Probably not or they'd be fairly lousy bonuses.

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

It sounds like you get a bonus spell slot, and then a single spell to permanently prepare into that slot. Which brings up a few interesting questions, such as: will a wizard need to have a spellbook handy to prepare that spell?

Dark Archive

Can't wait!


Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

I'm always amazed at how the design team can find the tiny tweak that makes the greatest difference. Looking forward Indeed!

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

So, can we get any hints as to whether there have been changes to the CMB system?

Paizo Employee Director of Game Design

Shisumo wrote:
Jal Dorak wrote:
Paizo Blog wrote:
There are dozens of other small changes to the rules as well. Favored Classes now grant a bonus hit point or a bonus skill point.

I cannot begin to describe the awesomeness of this genius minor change. Now you can make the intelligent human fighter and get a reasonable amount of skill points (minimum 4 with 10 Int) if you choose! Or make a sturdy halfling rogue with decent hp (maximum 9 with 10 Con).

Such a small change, but enough to make me dismiss one of my final criticisms of the PRPG system (not enought fighter skill points)!

Woohoo! Giving the option was one of my suggestions! (Though I doubt I was the only one to offer it...)

This change did indeed come from the boards.... as did many of the others.

Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer
Paizo Publishing

Paizo Employee Director of Game Design

Gnome-Eater wrote:
hogarth wrote:
I like the idea of specialist wizards picking a permanent bonus spell. It's like the Domain Wizard variant (from Unearthed Arcana), but you get to make your own domain!
Question: Do you think the bonus spells will count against spells per day?

They do not.

Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer
Paizo Publishing

RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32

Shisumo wrote:
Which brings up a few interesting questions, such as: will a wizard need to have a spellbook handy to prepare that spell?

I hope not. It should be put in the same pile as Read Magic. What good is an Evoker if he can't prepare a Fireball from memory? That would be like Mario Batali needing a cookbook to make pasta.

Grand Lodge

and the FIghter? Any fixes for the FIghter? Please let there be fixes for the fighter.

Paizo Employee Franchise Manager

Jal Dorak wrote:
Paizo Blog wrote:
There are dozens of other small changes to the rules as well. Favored Classes now grant a bonus hit point or a bonus skill point.

I cannot begin to describe the awesomeness of this genius minor change. Now you can make the intelligent human fighter and get a reasonable amount of skill points (minimum 4 with 10 Int) if you choose! Or make a sturdy halfling rogue with decent hp (maximum 9 with 10 Con).

Such a small change, but enough to make me dismiss one of my final criticisms of the PRPG system (not enought fighter skill points)!

My question in this is whether the decision to take an hp or a skill point can be made on a per-level basis, or if it is decided at level one (like heal/inflict) and can not be changed.

The Exchange

yoda8myhead wrote:
Jal Dorak wrote:
Paizo Blog wrote:
There are dozens of other small changes to the rules as well. Favored Classes now grant a bonus hit point or a bonus skill point.

I cannot begin to describe the awesomeness of this genius minor change. Now you can make the intelligent human fighter and get a reasonable amount of skill points (minimum 4 with 10 Int) if you choose! Or make a sturdy halfling rogue with decent hp (maximum 9 with 10 Con).

Such a small change, but enough to make me dismiss one of my final criticisms of the PRPG system (not enought fighter skill points)!

My question in this is whether the decision to take an hp or a skill point can be made on a per-level basis, or if it is decided at level one (like heal/inflict) and can not be changed.

Or if maybe some classes HAVE to take HP or Skill. Favored class: fighter could just give +1 hp per level, while Favored class: Rogue could just give a bonus to skill points.

"Favored Classes now grant a bonus hit point or a bonus skill point." Could mean either/or depending on which Favored Class.

Scarab Sages

I think the Weapon/Armor Training as is are pretty awesome. And with the higher PF feat rate, it means they now get 21 feats over 20 levels. Cah-razy!

Paizo Employee Franchise Manager

Fake Healer wrote:
yoda8myhead wrote:
My question in this is whether the decision to take an hp or a skill point can be made on a per-level basis, or if it is decided at level one (like heal/inflict) and can not be changed.

Or if maybe some classes HAVE to take HP or Skill. Favored class: fighter could just give +1 hp per level, while Favored class: Rogue could just give a bonus to skill points.

"Favored Classes now grant a bonus hit point or a bonus skill point." Could mean either/or depending on which Favored Class.

I wouldn't like that at all. I like the idea that a fighter, who theoretically needs all the hp he can get, can choose to take a skill point instead. And vice-versa for a rogue. if fit's predetermined, it makes it needlessly complex and doesn't add a benefit over what's there now.

But since this is just speculation, I'll withhold judgment and criticism until I see the official rule.

Paizo Employee Director of Game Design

Fake Healer wrote:

I wouldn't like that at all. I like the idea that a fighter, who theoretically needs all the hp he can get, can choose to take a skill point instead. And vice-versa for a rogue. if fit's predetermined, it makes it needlessly complex and doesn't add a benefit over what's there now.

But since this is just speculation, I'll withhold judgment and criticism until I see the official rule.

You get choice at each level you take.

Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer
Paizo Publishing

The Exchange RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16

Jason Bulmahn wrote:

You get choice at each level you take.

Jason Bulmahn
Big Kahuna
Paizo Publishing

Jason,

Would putting the bonus point into a skill at 1st Level give the character the extra +3 to that skill as well?

Scarab Sages

I don't think it would matter if it was first level or 19th level. Putting a skill point into any class skill will give you the +3, if it's your first point there.

Paizo Employee Director of Game Design

Karui Kage wrote:
I don't think it would matter if it was first level or 19th level. Putting a skill point into any class skill will give you the +3, if it's your first point there.

Karui is correct.. putting a skill point into a class skill nets you the +3 bonus.

Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer
Paizo Publishing

Paizo Employee Franchise Manager

When will the pdf of the Beta rules be available for download? When you get the books in the warehouse, at GenCon, or somewhere in between (or before!!!)?

Scarab Sages

What Jason doesn't know is I've secretly tapped into his machine and timed my responses to arrive mere seconds before his own. Bwahaha!

Scarab Sages

Jason Bulmahn wrote:


You get choice at each level you take.

Even more awesome! I can ignore this rule when converting NPCs, and just go either or, but with characters you can get some neat skills at higher levels when hp is not as important and you want to roleplay.


Any changes to the monk? Magic hand-wraps? Simple weapon proficiencies? More skill points? Anything at all for the robed paupers?

The Exchange

Jason Bulmahn wrote:
Fake Healer wrote:

I wouldn't like that at all. I like the idea that a fighter, who theoretically needs all the hp he can get, can choose to take a skill point instead. And vice-versa for a rogue. if fit's predetermined, it makes it needlessly complex and doesn't add a benefit over what's there now.

But since this is just speculation, I'll withhold judgment and criticism until I see the official rule.

You get choice at each level you take.

Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer
Paizo Publishing

Good, I was worried that my possible interpretation might be true.

Sovereign Court

Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Companion, Maps, Pawns, Starfinder Accessories, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Charter Superscriber

I just want to say thanks again to Jason and everyone else on the design team for listening. Y'all rock.


If we keep posting questions, maybe Jason will get tired and just give us a PDF of the Beta!

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Here's a question regarding humans:

Will humans still only get a bonus feat or can they select an bonus class skill instead? (Or might there now be a Skill Training feat?)

P.S. Any chance the next blog will show the skill list?

Liberty's Edge RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32, 2011 Top 16

Saurstalk wrote:

Here's a question regarding humans:

Will humans still only get a bonus feat or can they select an bonus class skill instead? (Or might there now be a Skill Training feat?)

P.S. Any chance the next blog will show the skill list?

This won't really change much. A human can easily pick Skill Focus as their bonus feat, and that's the same +3 bonus as having a class skill. The only difference is that having a skill as a class skill could still allow skill focus to be taken to have the bonuses stack.

Liberty's Edge RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32, 2011 Top 16

Navdi wrote:
Any changes to the monk? Magic hand-wraps? Simple weapon proficiencies? More skill points? Anything at all for the robed paupers?

In one of Jason's recent blog entries, he mentioned that Beta will allow amulets of mighty fists and bracers of armor to have the same options as magic weapons or armor, so you could have an amulet of flaming +1 fists, for example, or bracers of light fortification armor +4. Both of these would be nice for a monk.

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Okay. Let's say that there is no feat called Skill Training. If that is the case, is it possible to stack Skill Focus feats? I.e, I really want an acrobat in my Wizard. So, he takes Skill Focus (acrobatics) as his human bonus feat. Could he conceivably take it again as his other first level feat? I wouldn't consider that imbalanced, given what the wizard would be giving up in way of feats. (Same applies to other classes that don't have Acrobatics as a class skill.)

Liberty's Edge

Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Adventure, Companion, Lost Omens, Pawns, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Not sure I like the change to bard. The objection most of us had wasn't how the DCs were generated.. but how the abilities were linked to certain Perform subtypes, some of which didn't make sense or were consistent with the subtype other/similar abilities used.

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber
SirUrza wrote:
Not sure I like the change to bard. The objection most of us had wasn't how the DCs were generated.. but how the abilities were linked to certain Perform subtypes, some of which didn't make sense or were consistent with the subtype other/similar abilities used.

I don't think I saw that complaint once (and of course it's not like I read every single bard post), but I know I saw several posters argue that skill-check-based DCs are just too high, particularly with regard to things like dirge of doom.

Liberty's Edge

Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Adventure, Companion, Lost Omens, Pawns, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Saurstalk wrote:
Okay. Let's say that there is no feat called Skill Training. If that is the case, is it possible to stack Skill Focus feats?

I'd hate to see rogues get to take Skill Focus on certain skills twice.

3 + 3 + 3 + 2 + 1 = +12 Stealth at level 1.. sheesh!

This situation is why the +2/+2 feats are in the game. You can take Skill Focus: Acrobatic and the Acrobatic feat (or whatever it gets renamed to if Jason condensed all the +2/+2 feats into 1 feat.)

That'll start you off at a +6 which is pretty damn good to me. Sure another class with it as a class skill would be +9 if they did the same thing, but that's why it's a class skill.

Liberty's Edge

Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Adventure, Companion, Lost Omens, Pawns, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Shisumo wrote:
SirUrza wrote:
Not sure I like the change to bard. The objection most of us had wasn't how the DCs were generated.. but how the abilities were linked to certain Perform subtypes, some of which didn't make sense or were consistent with the subtype other/similar abilities used.
I don't think I saw that complaint once (and of course it's not like I read every single bard post), but I know I saw several posters argue that skill-check-based DCs are just too high, particularly with regard to things like dirge of doom.

Appeared a lot the first 3 days the class was revealed.

Scarab Sages

SirUrza wrote:

You can take Skill Focus: Acrobatic and the Acrobatic feat (or whatever it gets renamed to if Jason condensed all the +2/+2 feats into 1 feat.)

That would be pretty slick, those feats take up a lot of space, and many of them are useless while others a primo choices. Having one feat that lets you pick the two skills would be a great mechanic and flavor change.

Liberty's Edge

Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Adventure, Companion, Lost Omens, Pawns, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Jal Dorak wrote:
SirUrza wrote:

You can take Skill Focus: Acrobatic and the Acrobatic feat (or whatever it gets renamed to if Jason condensed all the +2/+2 feats into 1 feat.)

That would be pretty slick, those feats take up a lot of space, and many of them are useless while others a primo choices. Having one feat that lets you pick the two skills would be a great mechanic and flavor change.

I'm pretty sure the skill pairs will still be there, it's just condensing the feats into 1 feat to save on page space. Each time you take the feat, you just take a different skill pair.

A combined feat saves a lot of space since it's 1 line per pair instead of 6-10 lines per version of the feat.

Dark Archive

Shisumo wrote:
SirUrza wrote:
Not sure I like the change to bard. The objection most of us had wasn't how the DCs were generated.. but how the abilities were linked to certain Perform subtypes, some of which didn't make sense or were consistent with the subtype other/similar abilities used.
I don't think I saw that complaint once (and of course it's not like I read every single bard post), but I know I saw several posters argue that skill-check-based DCs are just too high, particularly with regard to things like dirge of doom.

It is. If it was based off your perform check, you would end up with DCs in the low 40s at level 20 (20 skill rank+3 class skill+3 skill focus+4 Cha mod+10 on a average d20 roll) which is unreasonably high. A good save for a CR 20 monster by Jason's math is a 22. Monsters of the appropriate CR shouldn't need 20s to make their saves.


hogarth wrote:
I like the idea of specialist wizards picking a permanent bonus spell. It's like the Domain Wizard variant (from Unearthed Arcana), but you get to make your own domain!

I like the idea that a specialist wizard can pick his/her own permanent spell, but I'm a bit disappointed that there will no longer be an "at will" 1st level spell. Or am I making a poor assumption that this has been thrown out along with the School Powers?


Gray wrote:
hogarth wrote:
I like the idea of specialist wizards picking a permanent bonus spell. It's like the Domain Wizard variant (from Unearthed Arcana), but you get to make your own domain!
I like the idea that a specialist wizard can pick his/her own permanent spell, but I'm a bit disappointed that there will no longer be an "at will" 1st level spell. Or am I making a poor assumption that this has been thrown out along with the School Powers?

How I have read it is you still have the 1st,8th and 20th powers

just 2,4,6,10,12,14,16,18th are now spells you chose instead of set spell-like powers. All in all it doesn't change much. What i would like to know is the one from 2nd still 1 per 2 caster levels?


Jason Bulmahn wrote:


"hogarth wrote:


Question: Do you think the bonus spells will count against spells per day?

They do not.

Ooooh, nice! :) Are these bonus spells fixed per domain/school, like the 3.5 cleric domains, or can you choose from a limited list of spells appropriate to the given domain/school?


seekerofshadowlight wrote:

How I have read it is you still have the 1st,8th and 20th powers

just 2,4,6,10,12,14,16,18th are now spells you chose instead of set spell-like powers. All in all it doesn't change much. What i would like to know is the one from 2nd still 1 per 2 caster levels?

Thanks. I totally missed that. And I'm happy it is staying that way. I could only guess on your question though, and I'd probably be wrong.

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