A CD in the back of the book is worse from the POV of the publisher because people can easily copy/ pirate the PDF file on the disk anonymously. If you have people purchase and download a PDF then you can stamp their name on the PDF and track who copied it.
Overall about the only way is a sealed serial number but even that is expensive attaching a sealed card to each book. People could steal the codes but it would be obvious to the buyer.
Yes with the cheapest cd pdf version that is true. There are various options in security in various price ranges.
For every guy that can break a coded security cd there are at least 10 or more with scanners. Plenty of the D&D market has access to a scanner. All it takes is one person with a scanner and some time. Throw a few more people with time into the mix. Generally the market aged 18 and under will have the most free time to use one especially when it is cost prohibitive to purchase a pdf.
I'm old school there are costs associated with printing a book and distributing it to the wholesalers and the retailers and finally to the customer. By the time a book is printed now a days a pdf copy normally exists.
The 4E PHB PDF is $24.95 at RPG Now. The 4E PHB hardcopy retails for $34.95 but sells for $23.07 from Amazon and $19.04 + $3.99 shipping New from secondary Amazon retailers. All the Amazon retailers are making a profit despite additional shipping costs.
This is the same information. Some people prefer it hardcopy others prefer their information electronic and some like a combination of the two usually based on their preferred methods of interfacing with the information.
Yes with the cheapest cd pdf version that is true. There are various options in security in various price ranges.
For every guy that can break a coded security cd there are at least 10 with scanners. Plenty of the D&D market has access to a scanner. All it takes is one person with a scanner and some time. Throw a few more people with time into the mix. Generally the market aged 18 and under will have the most free time to use one.
Eh... DRM encoded CDs are worse than useless in my book. Now that I think of it, the pirates already have the PDF, why not put it on a CD in the back of the book?
Eh... DRM encoded CDs are worse than useless in my book. Now that I think of it, the pirates already have the PDF, why not put it on a CD in the back of the book?
IMO additional profits. With a pdf in the back of the book there is a slighter higher publishing cost plus now additional second copy electronic format sales are minimized both lower profits.
Well I must say that if Paizo does not give us a free PDF (or a very cheap one) with the hardcover book of Pathfinder RPG I will be very sad, and will need to take steps to obtain that PDF. As was said, people with scanners are many and people with torrents even more. Not providing this service to all that buy the book just hurts the company while it does not hurt the buyer at all.
Creating the PDF from the finished book is not that much of an effort, and should not be charged as much.
And I hate to say it but some of those scanner copies are better than official ones.
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The crazy pricing on and digital audio books
Wayyy off subject...
Audible.com for a monthly Subscription fee allows you to get Audible books for a lower price.
There are different subscription programs.
1 Book per month $14.95 (Right now the first 3 months are $7.49)
12 Books up front $149.50 (about $12.46 a month)
2 Books per month $22.5 (about $11.47 per book)
24 Books up front $29.50 (about $9.56 per book)
Being that Audio books range from $20 - $60, this is a nice deal if you listen to alot of audio books.
The Audio books also work directly with Itunes if you is a Ipod.
THey also have many other good deals and sales that sometimes they sell books for less then your subscription fee, so sometimes it is cheaper to get the book you want by direct pay instead of your subscription.
Now back to our regular scheduled program.
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Yeah, that's pretty nifty for 4e fans. The thing that strikes me as odd was WotC telling us all in a room at GenCon 2007 that if you buy the books, each would come with a personalized code you could enter on their site and access the electronic book for free. On the other hand, I was in mental anguish during that con and may have misheard that. :-)Well I didn't go to gencon but early on I heard that you would have online access to the rules using a code from the book and that the cost of the online access would be comparable in price "to a cup of coffee".
Its purely of historical interest now, but the RoUS said that on this thread :-
http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?t=210324
Edit - isn't showing as a link for some reason.
The Pathfinder RPG is not part of any subscription, but there will be a group of people that get the PDF for free (and I'd tell you who it is, but I totally forgot what we decided on that right now...)
Do you remember now Vic? Now? Now?
The crazy pricing on and digital audio booksWayyy off subject...
Well actually not really, we were talking about the skewed pricing of digital IP which has no distribution or packaging costs and no inventory to carry. Looking at the pricing of audiobooks I guess $15 isn't that bad but isn't audible DRM encoded?
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Well actually not really, we were talking about the skewed pricing of digital IP which has no distribution or packaging costs and no inventory to carry. Looking at the pricing of audiobooks I guess $15 isn't that bad but isn't audible DRM encoded?The crazy pricing on and digital audio booksWayyy off subject...
Yes...
But Once you legally Buy them you can burn them onto CDs *You must put in your login*. There seems to be no limit on the amount of CDs you can make.
as a File it is limited on how many devices you can put it on. You can put on 3 computers and 3 mobile devices. to go beyond that number you need to de-activate another device.
But Once you legally Buy them you can burn them onto CDs *You must put in your login*. There seems to be no limit on the amount of CDs you can make.
I can't use DRM encrypted stuff on half my computers. Also half of the MP3 players in my house will not play them. I just won't buy stuff with DRM. I don't buy AAC encoded music either.
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But Once you legally Buy them you can burn them onto CDs *You must put in your login*. There seems to be no limit on the amount of CDs you can make.I can't use DRM encrypted stuff on half my computers. Also half of the MP3 players in my house will not play them. I just won't buy stuff with DRM. I don't buy AAC encoded music either.
They have a list of what it supports.
I have no problems with DRM as long as I can move it on multiple medias. If it only allows me to have it on one media then i will not buy it.
And if you are having problems with DRM on your PC, in most cases it is not the DRMs fault but something on your PC.
*PC games though are different the security they are using on the recently have been horribly buggy*
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Bella Sara Charter Superscriber
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How About now?The Pathfinder RPG is not part of any subscription, but there will be a group of people that get the PDF for free (and I'd tell you who it is, but I totally forgot what we decided on that right now...)Do you remember now Vic? Now? Now?
Someone hit him in the head with a shovel. My understanding from extensive sitcom viewing is that it should help him remember.
Chief Technical Officer
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Someone hit him in the head with a shovel. My understanding from extensive sitcom viewing is that it should help him remember.How About now?The Pathfinder RPG is not part of any subscription, but there will be a group of people that get the PDF for free (and I'd tell you who it is, but I totally forgot what we decided on that right now...)Do you remember now Vic? Now? Now?
Sorry. Some stars and little tweeting birds flew around my head, and a giant bump grew so high on my noggin that it lifted my hair off, but I gained no recollection.
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Chief Technical Officer
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Well I must say that if Paizo does not give us a free PDF (or a very cheap one) with the hardcover book of Pathfinder RPG I will be very sad, and will need to take steps to obtain that PDF. As was said, people with scanners are many and people with torrents even more. Not providing this service to all that buy the book just hurts the company while it does not hurt the buyer at all.
Creating the PDF from the finished book is not that much of an effort, and should not be charged as much.
I already said we have plans, but I'd like to point out that "Give me something for free or I'll steal it" isn't a terribly good motivator for us to want to make you happy.
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Bella Sara Charter Superscriber
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Sorry. Some stars and little tweeting birds flew around my head, and a giant bump grew so high on my noggin that it lifted my hair off, but I gained no recollection.Someone hit him in the head with a shovel. My understanding from extensive sitcom viewing is that it should help him remember.How About now?The Pathfinder RPG is not part of any subscription, but there will be a group of people that get the PDF for free (and I'd tell you who it is, but I totally forgot what we decided on that right now...)Do you remember now Vic? Now? Now?
Damnit. I didn't realize Paizo followed cartoon physics and not sitcom physics.
I'm going to give Acme a call and see what they can do to be of assistance...
And if you are having problems with DRM on your PC, in most cases it is not the DRMs fault but something on your PC.
Rather it is something not on my PC, which is the software required to read most DRM encoded stuff. I stopped paying Redmond for mediocre software some time ago. Even so, I could certainly download it on the Mac and use it but I don't. I'll either buy the books or CDs or just wait. After waiting long enough the music industry got the hint and offered DRM free MP3s, I am certain the Audio Books will follow suit. After all the pirates already have their stuff, they just rip the CDs.
Vic,
If all the rules are OGL would Paizo have a problem with someone extracting the rules from the PDF and creating something similar to the D20OGL or the MySQL version of the SRD? It's not clear to me which parts of book will be OGL content and which are Paizo corporate property. Is it safe to assume that the crunch of any actual rules is OGL? For example the text of the Sorcerer Bloodlines.
Maybe this is the wrong thread to discuss this in.
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Rather it is something not on my PC, which is the software required to read most DRM encoded stuff. I stopped paying Redmond for mediocre software some time ago. Even so, I could certainly download it on the Mac and use it but I don't. I'll either buy the books or CDs or just wait. After waiting long enough the music industry got the hint and offered DRM free MP3s, I am certain the Audio Books will follow suit. After all the pirates already have their stuff, they just rip the CDs.
And I still say it is your PC... I have no clue what you are talking about when you mention Redmond...I am not paying a company called redmond when I listen to my Itunes music or Audible Audio books as far as I know..
I just download it, it is automatically added to itunes or Media Player and from there it can go to about 600 different mobile media formats.
Here this is from Audible...
You will not be able to convert the Audible format to MP3 or any other format because of this encryption. The measures have been taken by Audible to protect both the intellectual property rights of our Content Providers as well as the Authors. Audible's secure distribution system prevents a customer from passing along duplicate digital audio files to another listener. Audible created and employs a proprietary technology solution for distributing copyright-secure audio files that can be downloaded or streamed from audible.com. Audible's audiobooks can be played in over 600 AudibleReady devices, including Kindles, IPods and most other MP3 Players. We also are compatible with GPS devices such as Tom Toms, all PC's, Mac's and in-house systems such as Sonos.
Audible recently announced that it is working to provide an option of DRM-free spoken work audio titles on Audible.com for content owners and publishers who prefer this method and are committed to working with Audible to maintain a great customer experience. Currently we do not have an implementation date.
Edit: DOH!!.. By Redmond you meant Microsoft didn't you?... So not a Microsoft OS user then?... Then I can not add anything to this since I have only ever used MAC OS or Microsoft OS
Edit: DOH!!.. By Redmond you meant Microsoft didn't you?... So not a Microsoft OS user then?... Then I can not add anything to this since I have only ever used MAC OS or Microsoft OS
No, I was trying to be clever but settle on ambiguous. Yes I meant I don't run Windows on any of my home PCs. I run Linux on some of my computers and OSX on the rest. I can't use DRM encrypted stuff on my Linux system without significant work-arounds.
RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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Will the PDFs be a separate purchase from the hardcover for subscribers?No... subscribers get free PDFs of the products they receive as subscribers.
The Pathfinder Chronicles Campaign Setting is part of the Pathfinder Chronicles subscription, so Pathfinder Chronicles subscribers will get a free PDF of that book when their subscriber copy ships.
The Pathfinder RPG is not part of any subscription, but there will be a group of people that get the PDF for free (and I'd tell you who it is, but I totally forgot what we decided on that right now...)
I think you said your friendly neighborhood Origins Blogger is on that list ;-)
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Chief Technical Officer
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Vic,
If all the rules are OGL would Paizo have a problem with someone extracting the rules from the PDF and creating something similar to the D20OGL or the MySQL version of the SRD? It's not clear to me which parts of book will be OGL content and which are Paizo corporate property. Is it safe to assume that the crunch of any actual rules is OGL? For example the text of the Sorcerer Bloodlines.Maybe this is the wrong thread to discuss this in.
I believe the only closed content in the entire RPG is the list of deities; the OGL permits people to use everything but that (so long as you follow the OGL in doing so). Note, however, that "Pathfinder" is our trademark, and the very OGL that permits you to use that content also prevents you from mentioning the Pathfinder RPG (or any of our other trademarks), except where it *requires* you to mention the Pathfinder RPG in section 15 of your OGL attribution.
We're working a community use policy that will allow folks to use certain of our trademarks under certain conditions, but it's a ways from completion right now.
If you're interested in how we'd feel about it, though, well, we'd prefer that people not spend that kind of effort on the beta content; we ourselves won't be doing anything like that until the rules are finalized next year.
I believe the only closed content in the entire RPG is the list of deities; the OGL permits people to use everything but that (so long as you follow the OGL in doing so). Note, however, that "Pathfinder" is our trademark, and the very OGL that permits you to use that content also prevents you from mentioning the Pathfinder RPG (or any of our other trademarks), except where it *requires* you to mention the Pathfinder RPG in section 15 of your OGL attribution.
We're working a community use policy that will allow folks to use certain of our trademarks under certain conditions, but it's a ways from completion right now.
If you're interested in how we'd feel about it, though, well, we'd prefer that people not spend that kind of effort on the beta content; we ourselves won't be doing anything like that until the rules are finalized next year.
Thanks Vic,
I don't think I would put a monumental effort into much of anything on the beta, maybe a small effort. One thing I thinking was the possibility of collecting feats and alternate class features from Paizo content (Hardcover, Chronicles, Companion) into a single collection so I don't have to reference them from multiple sources.
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Thanks Vic,I don't think I would put a monumental effort into much of anything on the beta, maybe a small effort. One thing I thinking was the possibility of collecting feats and alternate class features from Paizo content (Hardcover, Chronicles, Companion) into a single collection so I don't have to reference them from multiple sources.
Oh that would be soo sweet, You know you're gonna share that link when you build it right?
Oh that would be soo sweet, You know you're gonna share that link when you build it right?
Thanks Vic,I don't think I would put a monumental effort into much of anything on the beta, maybe a small effort. One thing I thinking was the possibility of collecting feats and alternate class features from Paizo content (Hardcover, Chronicles, Companion) into a single collection so I don't have to reference them from multiple sources.
Well the problem I have with it is I don't have a big Paizo Library _yet_ so could only add new stuff. I could certainly give other people access to add items in as well but I can't afford to go and buy up Paizo's back library to do such a thing.
If you're interested in how we'd feel about it, though, well, we'd prefer that people not spend that kind of effort on the beta content; we ourselves won't be doing anything like that until the rules are finalized next year.
So does that mean that there are plans in the works to have a rules website? 'Cause that'd be totally sweet. I bet it would be a zillion times better than whatever Dennis can come up with. ;-)
Here is an extremely clunky version that I whipped up, in case anyone's curious:
http://alpha3.wikidot.com/home
If you're interested in how we'd feel about it, though, well, we'd prefer that people not spend that kind of effort on the beta content; we ourselves won't be doing anything like that until the rules are finalized next year.
If you do decide to do an online rules site, this site, IMO, is the gold standard of what a Hypertext Rules Document should be.
If you're interested in how we'd feel about it, though, well, we'd prefer that people not spend that kind of effort on the beta content; we ourselves won't be doing anything like that until the rules are finalized next year.So does that mean that there are plans in the works to have a rules website? 'Cause that'd be totally sweet. I bet it would be a zillion times better than whatever Dennis can come up with. ;-)
Boy that's not hard. Incidentally your web design is pretty good. If you get just a touch better you could meet the quality standards to get a job with the WotC web team.
I already said we have plans, but I'd like to point out that "Give me something for free or I'll steal it" isn't a terribly good motivator for us to want to make you happy.Well I must say that if Paizo does not give us a free PDF (or a very cheap one) with the hardcover book of Pathfinder RPG I will be very sad, and will need to take steps to obtain that PDF. As was said, people with scanners are many and people with torrents even more. Not providing this service to all that buy the book just hurts the company while it does not hurt the buyer at all.
Creating the PDF from the finished book is not that much of an effort, and should not be charged as much.
Nobody is asking anything for free. I am going to buy the book, I like the system. I just do not see a need to pay twice for a PDF once I have the book. And I am not alone in this, at least not where I live. Especially when creating this PDF is not so much of an effort.
The only other solution I see to this is your kind of SRD on your web page where we can access the information without the book for our Net wars and discussions. I use either that or PDF of PHB at the moment. I own the hardcover book, but not the PDFs. And I am not ashamed of it at all.
To me charging PDF in addition to the books is stealing from me. Charging for a PDF without a book is another thing and I am for that.
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I'm going to take a wild guess that the Charter subscribers will get the RPG PDF for free.
Possible others..
1) Superscribers
2) Preorders before X-Date
3) Freelancers
4) Certain active community members that aren't Charter/Superscribers. Perhaps based on post count, dollars spent, or Paizo just liking them.
5) Paizo Pizza People (no.. not really on the list, but it'd be funny!)
Think I qualify for all of those exact freelancers and paizo liking me. I'll have to buy them more pizza. :)
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I'm going to take a wild guess that the Charter subscribers will get the RPG PDF for free.
Possible others..
1) Superscribers
2) Preorders before X-Date
3) Freelancers
4) Certain active community members that aren't Charter/Superscribers. Perhaps based on post count, dollars spent, or Paizo just liking them.
5) Paizo Pizza People (no.. not really on the list, but it'd be funny!)Think I qualify for all of those exact freelancers and paizo liking me. I'll have to buy them more pizza. :)
What about posters who have a "P" in their name? Random lottery?
Nah, I would be cool with the Superscribers or Charter Subscribers getting the deal - after all, they did commit!