Hey there señor Schneider,
I couldn't think of any other place to put this so I guess I'll put it here.
It seems that one of your favorite phrases is "by in large" as I've seen you use it several times in various threads. Every time I see it, it makes me cringe. I figure as an editor you probably like words and stuff and enjoy learning about etymology and wordy things like that, right?
Okay, cool. Cause just as an FYI, it's "by and large". Check out this clicky link for more info on the origins of the phrase. And yes, I recognize that it's a niggling little thing that has very little significance in the overall effect of the communication, but stuff like that just somehow sticks in my craw - or would if I had a craw. It's right up there with "for all intensive purposes" for things that make my gums ache.
Anyway, I hope you enjoyed learning a little bit about the nautical origins of the phrase and I hope you're not upset with me for finding fault in the details.
Crawlessly yours,
Shannon
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Yes. Yes, it is. As in, "I care so little about said thing, I could not possibly care less." As to which Snorter alluded.
My language hang-up is region-specific, I think--to da U.P. of Michigan. "You want to come with?" I'm unsure of the proper phrase to describe that specific grammatical goof, but it's lacking in love for an object or objects.
Hey there señor Schneider,
I couldn't think of any other place to put this so I guess I'll put it here.
It seems that one of your favorite phrases is "by in large" as I've seen you use it several times in various threads. Every time I see it, it makes me cringe. I figure as an editor you probably like words and stuff and enjoy learning about etymology and wordy things like that, right?
Okay, cool. Cause just as an FYI, it's "by and large". Check out this clicky link for more info on the origins of the phrase. And yes, I recognize that it's a niggling little thing that has very little significance in the overall effect of the communication, but stuff like that just somehow sticks in my craw - or would if I had a craw. It's right up there with "for all intensive purposes" for things that make my gums ache.
Anyway, I hope you enjoyed learning a little bit about the nautical origins of the phrase and I hope you're not upset with me for finding fault in the details.
Crawlessly yours,
Shannon
Is this whole grammar police thing really necessary?
I don't really want to read a thread and have to worry that my english teacher is editing my post.
If your criticising a PUBLISHED error, that's one thing, but a post on a message board, come on...
- Ashavan
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Yes. Yes, it is. As in, "I care so little about said thing, I could not possibly care less." As to which Snorter alluded.
My language hang-up is region-specific, I think--to da U.P. of Michigan. "You want to come with?" I'm unsure of the proper phrase to describe that specific grammatical goof, but it's lacking in love for an object or objects.
They say it in the L.P. too.
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Is this whole grammar police thing really necessary?
I don't really want to read a thread and have to worry that my english teacher is editing my post.
If your criticising a PUBLISHED error, that's one thing, but a post on a message board, come on...
- Ashavan
Not so much grammar police as it is getting the phrase correct, I think. Kind of like when people say "have your cake and eat it too." People have said that backwards for a long time. Just one of those things I have to correct people about when I hear it. What you can't do is "eat your cake and have it too." Errr, that is, "eat your cake and have it too" is the way you're supposed to say it, because you can't physically do it, at least, not in any way that should be discussed in polite company...
Don't post much, but thought I'd add my two cents worth. =)
Red
I'll cop to it and so noted! No promises that you'll see me change my wicked ways over night, but I'll surely keep it in mind from here on out.
They say it in the L.P. too.Yes. Yes, it is. As in, "I care so little about said thing, I could not possibly care less." As to which Snorter alluded.
My language hang-up is region-specific, I think--to da U.P. of Michigan. "You want to come with?" I'm unsure of the proper phrase to describe that specific grammatical goof, but it's lacking in love for an object or objects.
Ah, ending a sentence w/ a preposition. In this instance, it's a literal translation of how it would be said in either German or the various Scandinavian languages. So it works for me as a dialect usage, regardless of "proper grammar". A lot of hangups people have w/ English grammar are b/c we've been taught a certain way of things that really relates to the later stratum of the Romance languages; which oftentimes fly in the face of the Germanic roots of our language. By which I mean only that there are certain things that "feel right" to me from being experienced w/ the older roots of the language, despite the fact that they've been deemed outmoded or improper by more modern grammatical accretions.
For what that's worth.
Is this whole grammar police thing really necessary?
I don't really want to read a thread and have to worry that my english teacher is editing my post.
If your criticising a PUBLISHED error, that's one thing, but a post on a message board, come on...
While I agree that interrupting a thread to complain about someones unintentional literary slip is rude that is not what happened. I am confident that Mr. Schneider will take no offense at the above post because of the quiet polite way it was done. In fact as a professional who's job is word smithing I wouldn't be surprised if he thanked the original poster for it.
For the record it's English and criticizing, thought you might like to know.
They say it in the L.P. too.Yes. Yes, it is. As in, "I care so little about said thing, I could not possibly care less." As to which Snorter alluded.
My language hang-up is region-specific, I think--to da U.P. of Michigan. "You want to come with?" I'm unsure of the proper phrase to describe that specific grammatical goof, but it's lacking in love for an object or objects.
That's because it is a logically constructed statement:
*do* you want to come with *us/me*?
Do can be properly discarded if the inflection indicates a question. the us/me can be assumed in spoken english, at least last I checked.
Is this whole grammar police thing really necessary?
I don't really want to read a thread and have to worry that my english teacher is editing my post.
If your criticising a PUBLISHED error, that's one thing, but a post on a message board, come on...
While I agree that interrupting a thread to complain about someones unintentional literary slip is rude that is not what happened. I am confident that Mr. Schneider will take no offense at the above post because of the quiet polite way it was done. In fact as a professional who's job is word smithing I wouldn't be surprised if he thanked the original poster for it.
For the record it's English and criticizing, thought you might like to know.
Yeah, you are not my english teacher, so please f&@$ off.
- Ashavan
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Not so much grammar police as it is getting the phrase correct, I think. Kind of like when people say "have your cake and eat it too." People have said that backwards for a long time. Just one of those things I have to correct people about when I hear it. What you can't do is "eat your cake and have it too." Errr, that is, "eat your cake and have it too" is the way you're supposed to say it, because you can't physically do it, at least, not in any way that should be discussed in polite company...Don't post much, but thought I'd add my two cents worth. =)
Red
While you are correct, the reversed version of the saying has, as you say been in use for a long time (since early 19th century) and through common usage has become an accepted (and far more popular) version of the saying (yes, even though it doesn’t make sense that way).
Technically, it should be “Both eat your cake and have it”; the “too” is redundant.
Is this whole grammar police thing really necessary?
I don't really want to read a thread and have to worry that my english teacher is editing my post.
If your criticising a PUBLISHED error, that's one thing, but a post on a message board, come on...
While I agree that interrupting a thread to complain about someones unintentional literary slip is rude that is not what happened. I am confident that Mr. Schneider will take no offense at the above post because of the quiet polite way it was done. In fact as a professional who's job is word smithing I wouldn't be surprised if he thanked the original poster for it.
For the record it's English and criticizing, thought you might like to know.
Ok, this is just to keep this thread light, but...
I assume you meant "whose job" rather than "who's job". And "criticising" might be British English; I know for a lot of our "z"s, they use "s"s. Just not 100% sure for this particular word, and of course I'm too lazy to look it up.
Again, don't take this as an attack or attempt to be rude or snarky! ;-)
Yeah, you are not my english teacher, so please f~#& off.- Ashavan
Oh, crap. So much for keeping this thread light :(
Ashavan, I don't think he meant to be snarky. I'm surprised you reacted this way; I think of you as a very even-keeled poster on these boards. But oh well, everyone can have an off day. Don't take this stuff too seriously, it's not worth the aggravation.
Yeah, you are not my english teacher, so please f~#& off.- Ashavan
Oh, crap. So much for keeping this thread light :(
Ashavan, I don't think he meant to be snarky. I'm surprised you reacted this way; I think of you as a very even-keeled poster on these boards. But oh well, everyone can have an off day. Don't take this stuff too seriously, it's not worth the aggravation.
Forgive me, in the last week I've had an echo cardiogram, a cat scan, and a stress test. I've got more radioactive goop in my veins than I can think about, and I don't like grammar police on boards I come to for fun.
- Ashavan
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Is this whole grammar police thing really necessary?
I don't really want to read a thread and have to worry that my english teacher is editing my post.
If your criticising a PUBLISHED error, that's one thing, but a post on a message board, come on...
While I agree that interrupting a thread to complain about someones unintentional literary slip is rude that is not what happened. I am confident that Mr. Schneider will take no offense at the above post because of the quiet polite way it was done. In fact as a professional who's job is word smithing I wouldn't be surprised if he thanked the original poster for it.
For the record it's English and criticizing, thought you might like to know.
Yeah, you are not my english teacher, so please f#%# off.
- Ashavan
Are you alright there Koldoon? A pet peeve perhaps, or just in a bad mood?
And Dennis, if you want to get technical, "criticising" is correct English (as opposed to American English) and I believe that "english" can be correctly used with a lower case E when it is used to describe the discipline of study of the English language (I could be wrong on that, but that is my understanding).
Thought you might like to know. ;-)
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Forgive me, in the last week I've had an echo cardiogram, a cat scan, and a stress test. I've got more radioactive goop in my veins than I can think about, and I don't like grammar police on boards I come to for fun.- Ashavan
I'm sorry to hear it man. That's justification for a really bad mood in my book.
I'm sorry to hear it man. That's justification for a really bad mood in my book.
Forgive me, in the last week I've had an echo cardiogram, a cat scan, and a stress test. I've got more radioactive goop in my veins than I can think about, and I don't like grammar police on boards I come to for fun.- Ashavan
Yikes, I'm sorry to hear that too. I knew that was not your usual posting style. I hope you get some good news after all's said and done!
Apropos nothing, let me just say--as a fan of names--I've always liked both your avatar name (make's me think of something from Michael Moorcock) and your real name. The latter of which I can't place or tie to any nationality. If you're up to it, I'd be curious where your name stems from?
What else can I say to cheer you up...thanks for your contributions to the "Seeds of Sehan" trilogy!
I'm sorry to hear it man. That's justification for a really bad mood in my book.
Forgive me, in the last week I've had an echo cardiogram, a cat scan, and a stress test. I've got more radioactive goop in my veins than I can think about, and I don't like grammar police on boards I come to for fun.- Ashavan
Yikes, I'm sorry to hear that too. I knew that was not your usual posting style. I hope you get some good news after all's said and done!
Apropos nothing, let me just say--as a fan of names--I've always liked both your avatar name (make's me think of something from Michael Moorcock) and your real name. The latter of which I can't place or tie to any nationality. If you're up to it, I'd be curious where your name stems from?
What else can I say to cheer you up...thanks for your contributions to the "Seeds of Sehan" trilogy!
Ashavan: follower of Asha. Asha: a quasi-diety roughly the equivalent of an archangel in Zoroastrianism. Asha Vahista (perfect truth) represented cosmic order, righteousness and truth. Asha was commonly represented by the element of fire.
- Ashavan
PS - The nationality of the name is Persian (Iranian), due to an interest my mom had in the area at the time. My parents both have common American names.
Ashavan: follower of Asha. Asha: a quasi-diety roughly the equivalent of an archangel in Zoroastrianism. Asha Vahista (perfect truth) represented cosmic order, righteousness and truth. Asha was commonly represented by the element of fire.
- Ashavan
Wow! You officially have the coolest name of anyone I've ever heard of alive today. I've always meant to delve deeper (as in, read up on) into Zoroastrianism, as I'm a big fan of angelology (again, the name thing) in general. I think D&D has seen a few scattered references (Ahriman & Nergal, right?) but nothing too overt.
Thanks for indulging me.
Edit: props to your mom!
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Is this whole grammar police thing really necessary?
I don't really want to read a thread and have to worry that my english teacher is editing my post.
If your criticising a PUBLISHED error, that's one thing, but a post on a message board, come on...
While I agree that interrupting a thread to complain about someones unintentional literary slip is rude that is not what happened. I am confident that Mr. Schneider will take no offense at the above post because of the quiet polite way it was done. In fact as a professional who's job is word smithing I wouldn't be surprised if he thanked the original poster for it.
For the record it's English and criticizing, thought you might like to know.
Yeah, you are not my english teacher, so please f#%# off.
- Ashavan
Are you alright there Koldoon? A pet peeve perhaps, or just in a bad mood?
And Dennis, if you want to get technical, "criticising" is correct English (as opposed to American English) and I believe that "english" can be correctly used with a lower case E when it is used to describe the discipline of study of the English language (I could be wrong on that, but that is my understanding).
Thought you might like to know. ;-)
of course, everyone missed my pet peeve: "your" for "you're"...
or getting "there, they're and their" mixed up...
or "two, too, and to..."
Ok, this is just to keep this thread light, but...
I assume you meant "whose job" rather than "who's job". And "criticising" might be British English; I know for a lot of our "z"s, they use "s"s. Just not 100% sure for this particular word, and of course I'm too lazy to look it up.
Again, don't take this as an attack or attempt to be rude or snarky! ;-)
No, I love it!
My spelling is horrid if it weren't for built in spell checkers I'd be sunk.
And Dennis, if you want to get technical, "criticising" is correct English (as opposed to American English) and I believe that "english" can be correctly used with a lower case E when it is used to describe the discipline of study of the English language (I could be wrong on that, but that is my understanding).
I generally don't bug someone for trivial abuses of the egrish language but I couldn't help but put a plug in to someone who goes out of his way to find fault in what was at heart an extremely polite post.
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And Dennis, if you want to get technical, "criticising" is correct English (as opposed to American English) and I believe that "english" can be correctly used with a lower case E when it is used to describe the discipline of study of the English language (I could be wrong on that, but that is my understanding).I generally don't bug someone for trivial abuses of the egrish language but I couldn't help but put a plug in to someone who goes out of his way to find fault in what was at heart an extremely polite post.
Yeah, no worries mate. I was being a bit of a smart ass anyway, sorry about that. It's actually got me wondering if I'm right about that lower case english thing... comments from the gallery?
Ha! Egrish. Love it.
And Dennis, if you want to get technical, "criticising" is correct English (as opposed to American English) and I believe that "english" can be correctly used with a lower case E when it is used to describe the discipline of study of the English language (I could be wrong on that, but that is my understanding).I generally don't bug someone for trivial abuses of the egrish language but I couldn't help but put a plug in to someone who goes out of his way to find fault in what was at heart an extremely polite post.
Frankly I didn't find it a polite post, and I still don't. Calling someone on an error that could easily have been pointed out in an email is not polite.
What you did was attack me for my use of the english language... just for fun.
attack.
for fun.
Not cool.
I've been trying to make a return to the paizo boards because it's the closest thing to a gaming community I have. But posts like yours make me feel like every post I make is being unjustifiably sifted through for any error.
It's almost worse than the constant 4e/3.5 battle, and posts like yours, too typical of enworld and the wotc forums, are why I don't frequent those boards.
We used to be able to avoid those types of posts here. We used to be able to be friends here. Now all I find here are arguments so thick that all the useful info is buried.
I'm going back to my next medical exam... an unpronouncable exercise involving cameras being shoved up narrow tubes. I'm begining to feel like that's more fun than being part of this community.
- Ashavan
While we're on the topic, I hope the NY Times editorial staff is reading this.
"It's" = "It is."
"Its" = possessive.
Almost no one gets this right.
Possibly the stupidest construction in the English language (outside of effect/affect), but there you have it.
RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
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For my money, I am happy to see a thread on correct English grammar. (And I believe that the language English is always capitalized, like other languages. It might not be capitalized in phrases like body english...)
We're smart people. We care about language. Discriminating between lay and lie, or between imply and infer means that we care enough to learn how to talk right.
I really hope we can do that, without attacking someone else, or feeling like we're being attacked.
Oh, and click here for one of those internet grammar quiz thing-a-ma-bobs.
Oh again. This is my favorite on-line dictionary, hands down.
And then there's
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RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
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While we're on the topic, I hope the NY Times editorial staff is reading this.
"It's" = "It is."
"Its" = possessive.Almost no one gets this right.
What helped my students remember this is that few people confuse he's and his. The apostrophes in it's/its run the same way.
And I'm a big fan of trying to teach affect (usually a verb, but can be a noun referring to emotion) and effect (usually a noun, but can be a verb meaning "to initiate") to a class with both native and non-native speakers of English. It's a hoot.
Director of Sales
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Ending a sentence with a preposition is something up with which I will not put.
Furthermore, I listen to Grammar Girl's podcast every week.
I heard when Sebastian opened his latest package from Paizo, his head literally exploded.
Nope - that happened when I saw what happened to my beloved cranky dwarf avatar.
NOOOOOO!!!!
'Could care less' is right up there with 'irregardless' for things that should not be said.
I still can't get Lay and Lie right.
Its/It's I'm pretty good about, but sometimes my typing fingers get betterworse ideas.
[url]http://xkcd.com/326/[/url]
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 8
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Ending a sentence with a preposition is something up with which I will not put.
Bah! That's a silly rule borrowed from Latin. One early prescriptivist may have been mocking the rule when he wrote of it: "This is an idiom, which our language is strongly inclined to" -- Lowth, 1788.
effect (usually a noun, but can be a verb meaning "to initiate")
Or meaning "to cause to happen," if you prefer, like Jack Vance's Galactic Effectuator. And of course "affect" can be a variant verb, as in "He affected a Southern drawl." And then the whole first letter switcheroo from noun to verb in the usual sense... whoever came up with all that is laughing at us. From hell, where he belongs.
Now, if we can just cement a difference between enchant, enhance, enspell, and augment, in game terms...
P.S. My wife told me to add this one: her boss emailed the entire staff that "this project went flawless!" At which point she went ballistic. And she actually had the guts to email him back to explain about "adverbs." And she's still employed. Amazing.
P.P.S. Ooh! Add that one! "Amazing" doesn't actually mean "good"!
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of course, everyone missed my pet peeve: "your" for "you're"...
or getting "there, they're and their" mixed up...
or "two, too, and to..."
I recently bought a book of art and poetry called "The Tomato Collection." There's a fantastic poem in there about just this sort of thing. Like Shel Silverstein's poetry books and Pixar films, this one's enjoyable on both the "kid" and "adult" levels.
Bah! That's a silly rule borrowed from Latin. One early prescriptivist may have been mocking the rule when he wrote of it: "This is an idiom, which our language is strongly inclined to" -- Lowth, 1788.Ending a sentence with a preposition is something up with which I will not put.
Yes, I alluded to this in an earlier post. The reason it's so common is not b/c we're all a bunch of idiots and forgot that "rule", but b/c it was an arbitrary imposition of a Latin rule that directly contradicted the Germanic roots of our language. Sometimes, when something just "sounds right", it's b/c it is (or should be).
We're smart people. We care about language. Discriminating between lay and lie,
I tell my son and my students that, if eggs or bricks are involved, it's "lay." Otherwise, chances are good it's "lie."
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I tell my son and my students that, if eggs or bricks are involved, it's "lay." Otherwise, chances are good it's "lie."
... have you considered simply looking at the difference in meaning and structure instead? After all, lay is transitive, while lie is intransitive, and the meanings are quite different, too...
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...I believe that "english" can be correctly used with a lower case E when it is used to describe the discipline of study of the English language (I could be wrong on that, but that is my understanding).
I believe that, as 'England' is a Proper Noun, any adjectives derived from it would also be capitalized.
'England' is derived from the Dark Ages name 'Angle-land', named after the tribe inhabiting it at that time.
As the Land of the Angles, any grammatical offences against my country of birth will be dealt with by a visit from the Hounds of Tindalos.
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P.P.S. Ooh! Add that one! "Amazing" doesn't actually mean "good"!
A-maze-ing; something that leaves one dizzy, with senses reeling.
Like being trapped in a labyrinth with a minotaur.And 'awful' doesn't mean 'bad'!
Awe-full; possessing a quality that leaves the viewer in awe.
Though, if your lady asks you how she looks, you'd be advised to pick a different word, no matter what I just wrote....