Character classes and skills: What skills would you give each class?


Skills & Feats

Dark Archive

Good Morning everyone,

Lately, I've been looking at rearranging and consolidating the skills we used in 3.5. Although I began to address this some time ago, the Pathfinder Alpha release was a real inspiration. The release of 4E has only reinforced what I had intuited before; There is a general push to simplify and speed up combat within the d20 system without sacrificing too much in the way of character background/scope.

I don't think this has been successfully accomplished in 4E (weighing in with only 17 skills, total). I think Pathfinder has been doing a much better job (30+ skills), although some reduction couldn't hurt.

What follows is my take on skill allocation, by class, as I'd like to see it in the future. Some skills have went away (Profession, for instance), others have been replaced, and others have gotten facelifts to fit what I feel was the original intent behind them (Knowledge: Engineering is a good example).

All in all, I'm attempting to streamline the skills while expanding them across the board by class. I'm also attempting to remove some of the skill gaps between classes (rogues and bards still have the most; barbarians still have the least), while maintaining a logical association between class and skill.

Originally, I tried to post my chart for simplicity, but I wrote it in Excel and the boards here don't like the formatting. Even after formatting it by hand, it wouldn't post accurately, so I had to use the list below. If anyone would like a copy of the original spreadsheet, message me and I'll send it over. Otherwise, give it a look and tell me what you think.

If anyone has any questions as to why I moved, changed, added, or removed a skill, feel free to ask and I'll do my best to explain by choice:

The Skills, by Class:

Barbarian - Acrobatics, Athletics, Craft, Handle Animal, Intimidate, Perception, Stealth, and Survival.

Bard - Acrobatics, Appraise, Bluff, Craft, Diplomacy, Know (Arcana), Know (Dungeon), Know (Geography), Know (History), Know (Military), Know (Nobility), Know (Religion), Know (Streets), Linguistics, Perform, Sense Motive, Sleight of Hand, Spellcraft, and Use Magic Device.

Cleric - Appraise, Craft, Diplomacy, Heal, Know (Arcana), Know (History), Know (Nobility), Know (Religion), Linguistics, Sense Motive, and Spellcraft.

Druid - Athletics, Craft, Diplomacy, Fly, Handle Animal, Heal, Know (Geography), Know (History), Know (Religion), Linguistics, Perception, Spellcraft, and Survival.

Fighter - Athletics, Bluff, Craft, Handle Animal, Intimidate, Know (Dungeon), Know (Military), Know (Nobility), and Survival.

Monk - Acrobatics, Athletics, Craft, Intimidate, Know (History), Perception, Perform, Sense Motive, Sleight of Hand, and Stealth.

Paladin - Athletics, Craft, Diplomacy, Handle Animal, Heal, Know (Military), Know (Nobility), Know (Religion), Perform, and Sense Motive.

Ranger - Athletics, Craft, Handle Animal, Heal, Intimidate, Know (Dungeon), Know (Geography), Perception, Stealth, and Survival.

Rogue - Acrobatics, Appraise, Athletics, Bluff, Craft, Diplomacy, Disable Device, Intimidate, Know (Dungeon), Know (Streets), Linguistics, Perception, Perform, Sense Motive, Sleight of Hand, Stealth, and Use Magic Device.

Sorcerer - Appraise, Bluff, Craft, Diplomacy, Fly, Know (Arcana), Know (Streets), Perform, Sense Motive, and Spellcraft.

Wizard - Appraise, Craft, Fly, Know (Arcana), Know (Dungeon), Know (Geography), Know (History), Know (Military), Know (Nobility), Know (Religion), Linguistics, Spellcraft.

Altered Skills

Old Skill ------------------------------->New Skill

Climb ----------------------------------> Athletics
Disguise ------------------------------> Bluff
Escape Artist ------------------------> Acrobatics
Know (Engineering) ---------------> Know (Military)
Know (Local)-------------------------> Know (Streets)
Know (Nature) -----------------------> Survival
Know (Planes) ----------------------> Know (Religion)
Profession ----------------------------> Carefully fed to a Sphere of Annihilation
Ride ------------------------------------> Handle Animal
Swim -----------------------------------> Athletics

I rolled Climb and Swim into Athletics to simplify.

I rolled Disguise into Bluff because, essentially, that's what a disguise is; an attempt to bluff someone into believing you're someone else. I think that having an actual Disguise Kit should give a character a bonus to Bluff. I think lacking the proper tools should impose a penalty.

Escape Artist could be placed under both Athletics (break free) and Acrobatics (slip free), which is apparently what another game company did with their new edition ...cough cough. Personally, I think it should fall under Acrobatics solely, as their is generally a burst DC listed besides things like ropes, chains, and the like anyway. I don't think training in a skill would make you stronger (breaking or bursting ropes and chains is STR based), and is misplaced. That's just me.

Knowledge (Engineering) is one of those skills used to identify the strengths, weaknesses, and inner workings of things like castles, walls, bridges, and the occasional siege engine. I think the game would be better served if this skill was called Knowledge (Military), as it would cover those things, as well as rank structures, army tactics, unit identification, customs, and so forth. I think it would broaden the scope of the skill. In addition, I think it would give the Fighter class a Knowledge Skill to showcase. I don't think great generals are made by swinging a sword alone. I'm still tossed up as to whether I should add this skill and leave Knowledge (Engineering) alone.

Knowledge (Local) became Knowledge (Street) because, frankly, that's really what the aim of the skill has always been, in my humble opinion. I think it's a nice reflection to Knowledge (Nobility), which deals with the upper crust, etiquette, ect. It's now called Streetwise in 4E.

Knowledge (Nature) became Survival because the two already overlap, mostly. I can't think of too many things (besides identifying monsters associated with Nature) that Survival can't cover.

I rolled Knowledge (Planes) into Knowledge (Religion) because, for the most part, the Planes are where the Gods and their servants live. I can't think of too many cases where you might need to know something about a particular plane (Heaven, Hel, Dis, the Summerlands, whatever) that you haven't learned from myth and religion.

Profession - Yeah, regardless of other threads, I think it's useless. Creative role playing, a back story, and a rank or two in craft is all someone really needs to generate an occupation. I fail to see why we need a mechanic to assist in creative role playing. What does Profession really do, mechanically, in D&D besides generate income for the character during downtime....

And Lastly, Ride. Here's the thing. I have never met, heard of, or read about someone that rode an animal in any skilled capacity that did not also know how to handle it on the ground? You can own and ride a horse, but you don't know how to feed it or lead it? I think Handle Animal should cover Leading, Training, and Riding Animals.

So, what do you think?

Cheers,
Jaye Sonia

Dark Archive

It's a pretty nice listing, particularly for the Fighter, who kinda got rooked in skill selection in 3.X.

On the other hand, I'm not sure if *any* skills should be restricted by class.

Is there any reason why a Ranger can't be a military scout, and have knowledge of tactics, or a Fighter can't be skilled at seigecraft and have architectural skills (the better to both construct defenses, and knock them down) or a Cleric of the god of knowledge have decipher script? I'm not convinced that limiting skills (or even just making them cost double) to various classes is needed to protect anyone's 'niche.' If the Rogue is genuinely *suffering* because the Ranger can Hide/Sneak as well as he can or the Cleric (of the god of thieves) has sussed out how to pick a lock, then the Rogue probably has bigger problems as a class.

Dark Archive

Set wrote:

It's a pretty nice listing, particularly for the Fighter, who kinda got rooked in skill selection in 3.X.

On the other hand, I'm not sure if *any* skills should be restricted by class.

Is there any reason why a Ranger can't be a military scout, and have knowledge of tactics, or a Fighter can't be skilled at seigecraft and have architectural skills (the better to both construct defenses, and knock them down) or a Cleric of the god of knowledge have decipher script? I'm not convinced that limiting skills (or even just making them cost double) to various classes is needed to protect anyone's 'niche.' If the Rogue is genuinely *suffering* because the Ranger can Hide/Sneak as well as he can or the Cleric (of the god of thieves) has sussed out how to pick a lock, then the Rogue probably has bigger problems as a class.

This list wasn't designed to restrict skills by class. Under the Pathfinder system, as I understand it so far, class skills simply receive a +3 whenever the player puts a rank into a class skill. These are areas of special training, not restrictions.

Obviously, with clerics, some areas of focus (spheres) would increase skill selection.

Knowledge (Military) would definitely be appropriate to a scout. I don't know about a ranger, though. I'm sure this could be covered with a Feat.

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