Question:
Does anyone actually use Professions?
Perhaps I'm not getting as much mileage out of my games, but I've only once "used" profession and it didn't have much of an affect on my game.
That being said, is there any need for 3 slots for "professions" on the Pathfinder Character sheet?
Also, if they are as useless as I am assuming (and I may be quite incorrect in my assumption) why not just fold them into "Craft" skills?
~LD
I had a cleric of Olidamarra who maxed out his Profession (innkeeper) and bought into every tavern he came across as an offering to his god. But outside of NPC's, I don't know many characters with more than one or two.
Question:
Does anyone actually use Professions?
Perhaps I'm not getting as much mileage out of my games, but I've only once "used" profession and it didn't have much of an affect on my game.
That being said, is there any need for 3 slots for "professions" on the Pathfinder Character sheet?
Also, if they are as useless as I am assuming (and I may be quite incorrect in my assumption) why not just fold them into "Craft" skills?
~LD
I've used Profession: Siege Engineer before, having someone who knows how load, fire and maintain the ballista and the catapults got my character some bonus crew-pay when the group went on a ship journey. Plus it came in handy when it hit the fan when the pirates and later the giant squid attacked.
Another player had taken ranks in Profession Cook, he was a god-send when camping in the wilderness. The Ranger (who also had the Hunter profession skill) would bring wild game and herbs and we got the pro chef/cleric to whip-up tasty meals in the field,(no more suck trail rations). It was used once as a Aid Skill check in a negotiation with a NPC. Someone who's been served a fine meal is more likely to be amenable in negotiations,(he also used for RP during down-time for the church to help feed the poor).
Other characters of mine have taken and actually used the Profession skills of Sailor and Cartographer. Both of which were major adventure leads, unexplored lands and seas need to be mapped and sailed by brave adventurers after all.
Lots of the Profession skills were used in down-time situations. I guess it was mostly because we were mainly a Shadowrun playing group, where downtime RP is somewhat important (at least is was in our group) in maintaining friendly relations with business contacts.
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profession is one of those skills that is very 'role playing' oriented, and will only offer game effects if the DM is brought into the situation. It could have great affects, however most folks seem to be looking for something more combat oriented, and for that it won't do a lot.
I typically do find a use for one slot of it..ive had a couple characters over the years that used more...but not many.
In my campaigns we tend to use Professions quite a bit. Certainly Profession/Sailor and Profession/Herbalist are quite useful.
Cry Havoc heavily relies on Profession/Soldier for some of its feats and mass battle calculations.
That being said, it is very much a story/narrative, rather than a I build something for combat, or use this thing in combat skill. I believe eliminating it would be a bit harsh.
CJ
So I guess in the next version of the character sheet, Paizo could benefit by leaving only one line for Profession instead of the three which are currently available.
I don't know what could replace the other two lines, but I'm certain they will think of something.
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In our game, the wizard just bought the Rusty Dragon, took several ranks in Profession (Innkeeping) and coupled with her tremendous cooking skill, has created a nice steady income for herself.
Profession does not get used by everyone nor does it get used all the time. But its nice to have the option for those times when it could be useful.
Personally I have never understood why people think that just because a thing is not used in their particular game or campaign, it should be removed from the rules entirely.
I have a character with Profession: Deputy and I have my PC in the game I DM face off in negotiations with merchants all the time.
It's one of those skills that says, "After I retire, I will not drink myself into an early grave." I like that as a player.
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In our game, the wizard just bought the Rusty Dragon, took several ranks in Profession (Innkeeping) and coupled with her tremendous cooking skill, has created a nice steady income for herself.
Profession does not get used by everyone nor does it get used all the time. But its nice to have the option for those times when it could be useful.
Personally I have never understood why people think that just because a thing is not used in their particular game or campaign, it should be removed from the rules entirely.
That's awesome. My experience has obviously differed. I'm fairly certain the general move (with 4E and perhaps PRPG) is to consolidate and simplify skills, focusing on the more "action orientated" skills and leaving the rest to the creativity of the DM. From that perspective, I yanked Profession and let my players allocate those skill points into areas that served that feel.
If they want to buy and operate an Inn in the background, I'd let them do that without requiring the use of the skill.
By the way, they removed Profession in 4E.
Cheers,
Jaye
I cannot think of a character I have played, or an npc I have crafted, in the last four years that does not have a profession, and/or craft skill for pure roleplaying purposes. I have had:
Profession (mason)
Profession (lawyer)
Profession (artist)
Profession (farmer)
Profession (butcher)
Profession (sheriff)
Profession (guide)
Profession (glassblower)
Profession (fletcher)
Profession (brewer/vinter)
D&D has a disturbing focus on combat. There are tens of thousands of players who look for world-building, verisimillitude and depth in their game. The profession skill is one of the only nods to that we have. It takes up far less space than the worlds it opens up.
I made my case in another thread (probably "Skill Lists {Think Tank}" that each character really only needs a single profession skill, ala the d20 Modern use of the skill.
With that said, the only exception I can see to this is for sailing/navigation. However, rather than keeping that as a Profession skill, I'd make Shiphandling a Wis-based skill and use Knowledge Geography for navigation.
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Profession (mason)
Profession (lawyer)
Profession (artist)
Profession (farmer)
Profession (butcher)
Profession (sheriff)
Profession (guide)
Profession (glassblower)
Profession (fletcher)
Profession (brewer/vinter)
Some of those I'd work as Craft skills, but Profession (lawyer), (sherriff) and (guide) all sound useful for a PC to take.
One of my favorites was from the Kalamar Player's Guide. I don't remember the name, but it was basically 'Profession (pack mule)' and represented people who carried stuff for a living (porters?) and a successful check would allow someone to pack stuff for ease of portage and get a bonus to their encumbrance.
Profession (Nodwick), basically. :)
My Eberron Warlock took both Profession (cook) and Profession (butcher). Since he had at will Eldritch Blast, he'd shoot at birds and monkeys or whatever while journeying, and then prep them for the day's meal (while using Butcher to harvest body parts for his own use, as he decorated himself with teeth and feathers from critters he'd killed). Was there a major game impact? Nope. He saved on some money for meals, that's about it. But the *option* was there for me.
When I wanted to make a Changeling Barbarian Warshaper, with no Profession skills at all, that option was also there for me, and the presence of Profession skills for other characters in no way prevented me from making a min-maxed combat-machine.
I just noticed on the Character Sheet it has 3 slots for Profession and only one for Perform. I'd say best have 1 Profession and 3 Perform, or 2 Profession and 2 Perform. How many Bards (and other characters) Use multiple Performance skills? Sing /Play(stringed, wind, percussion) Instruments/Dance/Oratory etc.
Even my cleric character with profession (innkeep) had perform (wind instrument) and perform (oratory).
But of course these skills tend to be based on how the campaign is run. With heavy to mid role play campaigns making good use, and combat focussed roll play campaigns having little to no use.
I have a fighter character that I put Profession (sailor) on due to his background as a marine. It later turned out to useful in the campaign when we had to steal a pirate ship.
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I tend to differentiate between Profession (more service oriented trades) and Craft (a skill that can be used to create a masterwork item).
If anyone cares here is the list of Professions I allowed in one of my more pseudo-medieval campaigns:
Apothecary
Architect
Barber
Beekeeper
Boater
Bookkeeper
Butcher
Butler
Cartographer
Chamber maid
Clerk
Coachman
Courtesan
Cutler
Dairyman (or dairymaid)
Distiller
Doorman/Door ward
Driver
Engineer
Falconer
Farmer
Farrier
Fisher
Footman
Forester
Fortuneteller
Fuller
Gambler
Gamekeeper
Gardener
Gong farmer (one who empties privies)
Groom
Guide
Hairdresser
Herald
Herbalist
Herdsmen
Horse trader
Housekeeper
Huntsmen
Innkeeper
Jester
Kennel keeper
Lackey/Dog's Body
Launder/Laundress
Lawyer/Barrister
Limner
Maid
Maid in waiting
Merchant
Miller
Miner
Orchardmen
Ostler
Perfumer
Plumber
Porter
Poulter
Ratter
Sailor
Sawyer
Scribe
Scullion/Potboy
Serving maid/man
Siege Engineer
Slater
Soldier
Stableman
Tanner
Teamster
Tiler
Trapper
Usher
Valet
Vintner
Woodcutter
In the spirit of completion, here are the crafts I allowed in the same campaign:
Armourer
Atilliator (crossbow maker)
Author
Baker
Basketweaving
Blacksmith
Bookbinding
Bowyer
Brewer
Buttonmaker
Cabinetmaker/Jointer
Calligraphy
Candlemaker
Carpentry
Cobbling
Composer
Cook
Cooper
Draper
Dressmaker
Fletcher
Furrier
Gem Cutter
Glassblowing
Glover
Harness maker
Hatter
Hosier
Illuminator
Jeweler
Leatherworking
Locksmith
Milliner/Lacemaker
Musical Instrument Making
Painting
Playwright
Poet
Pottery
Ropemaker
Saddler
Sculpting
Shipwright
Shoemaker
Stonemasonry
Tailor/Seamstress
Tinker
Wainwright/Cartwright
Weapon Smith
Weaving
Wheelwright
Woodworking
CJ
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Question:
Does anyone actually use Professions?
Perhaps I'm not getting as much mileage out of my games, but I've only once "used" profession and it didn't have much of an affect on my game.
That being said, is there any need for 3 slots for "professions" on the Pathfinder Character sheet?
Also, if they are as useless as I am assuming (and I may be quite incorrect in my assumption) why not just fold them into "Craft" skills?
~LD
I agree with others have said above--profession can add a lot to the role playing experience. Just to provide an anecdote--I have a friend who had a sorcerer with profession: butler and the results were hilarious. This butler would select the richest and/or the most powerful character in the group and was constantly offering to clean things with prestidigitation and offering to serve dinner and fetch slippers. I suppose one could role play without the skill, but I like it when the piece of paper correlates with what the player does. Otherwise one would need a bluff check since the character would be pretending to be a butler rather than actually being a butler.
However, I do think that both profession and craft need work. I would like to see a standard list of professions coupled with a specific description of what can do with that skill. I would like to see the professions to be broad enough to fit a range of skill levels. Right now people can have profession: anything and craft: anything. I see this as a problem because what if you have one character with profession: baker, another with profession: pastry chef and a third with craft: baked goods and they all want to attempt to make dessert for the king's banquet in order to gain the king's favor. The DM would probably have to come up with three different DCs for each of the skills because "pastry chef" already implies advanced skill in baking. Instead, I would like to see these all bundled as profession: baker. A "pastry chef" would be someone with a lot of skill points in the profession: baker skill. There would be a brief chart for each profession skill--for the baker skill it would be something like this:
DC 10: muffins, biscuits and rolls
DC 15: loaf of bread good enough to sell
DC 20: a cake good enough for a peasant celebration
DC 25: a fine cake
DC 30: pastry
And so forth. The problem with a lot of the profession skills is that one is left wondering exactly what the character can do with them. If I've got profession: ship builder, how long and/or what's the DC to build a boat? How long and/or what's the DC to repair a boat?
Another problem is this: what happens if a character has a profession that would seem to duplicate another class? What would happen if I had a fighter with profession: thief? Shouldn't I be putting those skill points else where? What would happen if I had a character with profession: wizard? Would the character get any benefit out of this profession skill? What's the difference between "profession: singer" and "perform: singing"? I would like to see a standard list to help guide people into avoiding this kind of overlap. Of course, if you want something else, go ahead and create that, but it would help if we had a common list to start from.
I have the same kind of feeling for the craft skills. Some make appearances (craft alchemy), but mostly these are rather vague. I would like this to be made more specific and fleshed out--the same kinds of things that I described for profession above.
Finally, I would like to see a standard list for what benefit one can earn from using craft and profession skills. This is sort of covered in the 3.5 PHB, but I would like to see it fleshed out. ("About half your profession check result in gold pieces" doesn't seem quite satisfying enough.) Let's say that a player can't make it to a role playing session and missed out on defeating some villain and stealing the villain's loot. In terms of in-game explanation, we could say that the character was off working and using his profession and/or craft skills. The character could then earn the corresponding gold--if you don't put the skill points there, you don't get the benefit. (This would make profession more attractive for the home game setting.)
Question:
Does anyone actually use Professions?
Yes. Lots.
That being said, is there any need for 3 slots for "professions" on the Pathfinder Character sheet?
Much as I love professions, I do agree that if the Character Sheet needs cleaning, dropping it to one slot is fine. Lots of people take "Profession" but seldom more than one. And the kind of player who wants lots of Professions (and crafts and knowledges etc.) is probably going to use their own homebrew sheet anyway.
Also, if they are as useless as I am assuming (and I may be quite incorrect in my assumption) why not just fold them into "Craft" skills?
One's a make-something skill which requires intellect to manage properly, one's a more intuitive skill that allows one to run day to day operations of certain things smoothly or understand what's needed to accomplish a job. (In short, one is Int based and the other Wis based, and I think that distinction can safely and reasonably remain.)
I use em all the time. Funny I saw this in my pbp today there was a fire on a ship and someone called for a bucket. SO I allow profession sailor to be used to know the best place on a ship to find one as well as to be used to know the most effective way to fight a fire on a ship. The skill is only limited by the DM and players. There some of the most open ended and useful skills in game, great role playing tools.
I have a warforged artificer who took Profession: Merchant. After he gained several levels, I was able to convince my DM to let me rent a storefront in Sharn. I then put my underlings to work as retailers and stock assistaints. After a while, the party never bothered selling any of the loot we found, and instead we put it up for sale in my shop, where I was usually able to get a better price after a while.
Now, Shiny has stores in Sharn and Stormreach, and is working on crafting a fleet of airships with several bound elementals he aquired some time ago.
Profession can be a useful skill if you know how to work it. ;)
Ok, i must admit, as I read these stories I think to myself "that's great, but that's not what profession does."
From P-fndr Beta: Check: You can practice your trade and make a decent living, earning about half your profession check in gold peices per week of dedicated work. You know how to use the tools of the trade, preform the profession's daily tasks, how to supervise helpers, and how to handle common problems.
This does *not* allow you to purchase an inn, or a shop to sell magic items in, etc, etc, etc. You did that with your roleplaying, *not* with the profession skill. Ask yourself, is this something that a character without a single rank in the profession skill could have accomplished? If the answer is yes, then you didn't use the profession skill. A wizard could easily set up "Mage's Most Memorable Majiks!" shop, craft items for 50% of the cost using Craft Wonderous Item, and sell them for 75% of the cost, giving the adventuring community a huge discount over the normal price while making thousands of gold pieces per sale. Does he use the profession skill here? Of course he doesn't. If he was instead using Profession: Merchant, which seems to be the appropriate skill, then a level 20 wizard might bring in 20 GP a week or so.
Profession Guide could be accomplished by search/spot/survival checks. Many of the suggested professions are really Craft checks in disguise. Profession armorer, or profession fletcher for example. Profession: Lawyer could be accomplished with a mix of Bluff/Sense Motive/ and Diplomacy.
That being said, Profession I suppose could be most useful in the context that it bundles several skills in a neat little situational package. A la the part where it says: you know how to use the tools of the trade, preform your professions daily tasks, etc... as opposed to the part where you make a lame amount of gold.
For the following example, pretend it's still 3rd edition when Use rope exists, it makes it easier to illustrate the point. Take Profession: Sailor, for example. You would think that a wide knowledge of ropes and the ability to preform various saling knots would be an integral part of being a sailor, allowing a sailor to roll a profession sailor check to preform these kinds of duties while on a ship, correct? What if he is off the ship? Can he use a profession: salior check in place of a use rope check? If not, why the hell not?! If so, why would anybody take ranks in use rope?
Same logic for say, profession lawyer. You would think that bluff, sense-motive, and diplomatic skills would be essential to the function of a lawyer. If the lawyer is not in the courtroom, then can he use profession lawyer in place of any bluff, sense-motive, or diplomacy check? Of course not.
This is why profession is bad. Because it's really already covered by a number of other skills, which are more approrpriate and generally help the game make more sense. This leaves profession in a kind of awkward category where nobody is quite sure when a profession check applies, leading to it never being used.
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If anyone cares here is the list of Professions I allowed in one of my more pseudo-medieval campaigns:
CJ
Awesome job CJ! I was just yesterday thinking of compiling my own list and your efforts are a great springboard. Thank you for sharing.
So I guess this means that these skills are important to me and my gaming group. We mostly use them as PC background or for NPCs and to us they are still important. We do have a house rule which states an adventurer mat remove up to 2 skill points per level from these skills and relocate them but only if he has not used the skill or has good reason to show that his character is no longer pursuing his original vocation. This works well for us when for example, a fighter who was originally a farmer no longer works as a farmer and does not imagine himself to ever continue in that line of work because of his great fortune and fame in being a hero.
The only issue I have with Craft and Profession is that an adventurer who uses such skills can continue to gain ranks with minimal effort if he so chooses to do so yet the NPC Expert who does not gain levels can never become the best in his chosen field unless he adventures himself. This means that the chef who has been a chef all his life and spent time perfecting his art can be trumped by the party cleric who cooks a campfire meal for his comrades now and again all because he can turn undead and vanquish his foes where the poor old chef cannot. This is a minor gripe and I imagine probably never becomes an issue in any game. Just thought I'd mention it.
Does anyone have an idea on how the chef can compete against the adventurer in the world of culinary arts? Or any other professional/craftsman vs the average adventurer? We usually work a solution into the roleplaying side of it a la Steven Segal from Under Seige for example:"Yeah, well, I also cook." Love to hear some other ideas.
Justin
www.sirjustyn.com
www.allthingsmedievalpodcast.blogspot.com
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I think Profession skills are invaluable. I know we're in a fantasy setting (where does reality fit into fantasy), but realistically everyone knows how to do something. Wether its the one or two ranks you get watching your parents be farmers (or merchants, or whatever); or wether its the 5-10 ranks you have for being a blacksmith's apprentice before you went off adventuring. Everybody can do something.
And as a DM, I'll allow a player to use a profession skill check in place of something else - as longs as it fits the situation. For example, profession (merchant) when trying to haggle a price (instead of Diplomacy), etc etc. I'm glad they're there. Yea, they're mostly for roleplaying - but not always!
I've almost never used them in my campaigns... I don't know, maybe they're just too vague.
What if a profession could be chosen as a feat instead, and that gave you bonuses in a few skills (much like alertness). You could choose them multiple times and the bonuses would stack to simulate novices and experts in their fields.
Say you choose the Profession: SAILOR feat... You would get a +1 in Swim, +1 in Climb, +1 in Use rope and +2 in Knowledge: Creatures (aquatic).
Just throwing an idea...
Ultradan
Well, I don't think you need three blank Profession skills. Two Profession skills should be more than enough and I'd like to see at least two Perform spaces. A blank line for additional skills might also be useful.
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What if a profession could be chosen as a feat instead, and that gave you bonuses in a few skills (much like alertness). You could choose them multiple times and the bonuses would stack to simulate novices and experts in their fields.
Say you choose the Profession: SAILOR feat... You would get a +1 in Swim, +1 in Climb, +1 in Use rope and +2 in Knowledge: Creatures (aquatic).
Skills are a cheaper buy-in. I'd hate to have to blow a Feat to be able to cook my own dinner or butcher animals or work with herbs...
I tend to differentiate between Profession (more service oriented trades) and Craft (a skill that can be used to create a masterwork item).
If anyone cares here is the list of Professions I allowed in one of my more pseudo-medieval campaigns:
Apothecary
Architect
Barber
Beekeeper
Boater
Bookkeeper
Butcher
Butler
Cartographer
Chamber maid
Clerk
Coachman
Courtesan
Cutler
Dairyman (or dairymaid)
Distiller
Doorman/Door ward
Driver
Engineer
Falconer
Farmer
Farrier
Fisher
Footman
Forester
Fortuneteller
Fuller
Gambler
Gamekeeper
Gardener
Gong farmer (one who empties privies)
Groom
Guide
Hairdresser
Herald
Herbalist
Herdsmen
Horse trader
Housekeeper
Huntsmen
Innkeeper
Jester
Kennel keeper
Lackey/Dog's Body
Launder/Laundress
Lawyer/Barrister
Limner
Maid
Maid in waiting
Merchant
Miller
Miner
Orchardmen
Ostler
Perfumer
Plumber
Porter
Poulter
Ratter
Sailor
Sawyer
Scribe
Scullion/Potboy
Serving maid/man
Siege Engineer
Slater
Soldier
Stableman
Tanner
Teamster
Tiler
Trapper
Usher
Valet
Vintner
WoodcutterIn the spirit of completion, here are the crafts I allowed in the same campaign:
Armourer
Atilliator (crossbow maker)
Author
Baker
Basketweaving
Blacksmith
Bookbinding
Bowyer
Brewer
Buttonmaker
Cabinetmaker/Jointer
Calligraphy
Candlemaker
Carpentry
Cobbling
Composer
Cook
Cooper
Draper
Dressmaker
Fletcher
Furrier
Gem Cutter
Glassblowing
Glover
Harness maker
Hatter
Hosier
Illuminator
Jeweler
Leatherworking
Locksmith
Milliner/Lacemaker
Musical Instrument Making
Painting
Playwright
Poet
Pottery
Ropemaker
Saddler
Sculpting
Shipwright
Shoemaker
Stonemasonry
Tailor/Seamstress
Tinker
Wainwright/Cartwright
Weapon Smith
Weaving
Wheelwright
WoodworkingCJ
Is that it?? :)
Skills are a cheaper buy-in. I'd hate to have to blow a Feat to be able to cook my own dinner or butcher animals or work with herbs...
Face it though... For professions that actually have an impact on the game (and not lame things like interior decorator or basket waever), wouldn't it be neat just to buy a profession that actually gives you more skills... And have a whole list of professions/feats to choose from?
Ultradan
I had a wizard skilled in Craft: Interior Design, just so that he could make the Craft checks necessary for Fabricate to build his stronghold cheaply and effectively :)
My group uses Profession skill all the time, we've had a Halfling explorer with Profession: Cartographer, who then moved into politics with his adventuring weath and became the mayor of a frontier town, [prompting the purchase of several ranks in Profession: Politican].
I've also had characters with Profession: Grave Digger and Profession: Miner and Profession: Lumberjack.
In every case the Profession skill added a nice slice of roleplaying colour to the characters, and came in handy at unlikely points during sessions.
How useful such a skill would be is dependent on both the DM and the situation shown. If used right the skill can be powerful. After all, it would be easy to justify using Profession (Sailor) to spot enemy ships approaching, tie a rope on board a ship, or construct a ship part. If used in such a way thats emulating 3 skills (Craft, Spot (Or Perception) and Use Rope). But this requires that the character be on board/working with a ship.
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I was just cleaning through some old D&D stuff and found Sages & Specialists. An entire sourcebook devoted to NPC classes like the Scribe, Apothecary, Healer, Engineer, Guide, Seer and Blacksmith. (I remember being all psyched about the Apothecary, in particular, since I was always a fan of alchemy & herbalism.)
We've gone from that to the argument that Craft and Professions should be purged from the game. How the times have changed!
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What if a profession could be chosen as a feat instead...
...Say you choose the Profession: SAILOR feat... You would get a +1 in Swim, +1 in Climb, +1 in Use rope and +2 in Knowledge: Creatures (aquatic).Skills are a cheaper buy-in. I'd hate to have to blow a Feat to be able to cook my own dinner or butcher animals or work with herbs...
I like this idea! Maybe as some sort of skill trick type thing? Sink a couple skill points into it, get an overall bigger payout of bonuses, but only in certain situations. Feats are a precious commodity, with so many shiny ones already to choose from.
I agree with the couple of folks who thought some of the 3 Profession slots should be used for Perform. At least 50/50, I'd say, especially with Pathfinder's more diversified interpretation of bardic music.
I also feel for the poor NPCs who work their whole lives to perfect their crafts & trades, but can never hope to be as good as a high-level character. My gaming group and I have put thought towards this before, even considering some means by which one could use xp to directly purchase skill points or feats, but that requires a fairly substantial rewrite of d20 rules, and it seems like a simpler solution would be much better. Too bad we haven't figured out what that is yet.
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I also feel for the poor NPCs who work their whole lives to perfect their crafts & trades, but can never hope to be as good as a high-level character...
Personally, I'd like to see Profession removed from the class-skills list of all PC and NPC classes except for Experts. That way, the experts would be experts. With the elimination of cross-class skill penalties, everybody else could still take ranks in a profession, but only Experts would get the +3 bonus.
In my games, I like a really open system with players being able to define pretty much any profession they want - baker, lawyer, candlestick maker. Because it is such a role-player's skill, there's not much worry about folks abusing it. Then, as DM, I have them do a lot of synergy checks* to see if they can use their Profession ranks to aid themselves in their more adventure-oriented skills. It works pretty well.
* When I say a synergy-check, I've been using a suggestion from somebody (Lordzack?) in the Alpha boards where players roll to see if synergy works like one would roll to see if Aid Another works. If you succeed in the first roll and can justify to the DM why the first skill should contribute to the other, then you get a +2 bonus on the real skill check. Works nice and if you don't like synergy, you can just forget about it and it doesn't mess with anybody's stats.
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This is a variant NPC class I made up a while ago, since I was frustrated by the weakness of the Commoner, and even, the Expert.
The former were incapable of carrying out their jobs unless they were high level, and both had no reason to continue taking levels in these classes over another.
I accept that someone could be born into a bad start in life, but that does not justify them continuing to make the same mistake, once they have some xp to spend.
In a world where a Fighter, who has shown no interest in the magical arts can bop 10 goblins over the head, cash in the resulting 1000xp, and declare himself a Wizard, there is no reason a peasant cannot declare himself a Fighter, or an Expert declare himself a Rogue. Indeed, if some doughty serf were to defend his baron's property, he would likely be promoted into the army.
All campaigns should have slack-jawed peasants. They are a realistic and humorous staple of the genre. However, they should be slack-jawed because of low Int, and low ambition (ie low level). Not because their class is worthless at all 20 levels.[/end soapbox]
Brief overview of the changes: Note, this was written originally for D&D3.5, so if I have accidentally left in any references that no longer apply, please bear with me.
Base Attack, I set at medium, since I believe that people who work with their hands, and/or in the fresh air should be fitter and healthier than those who have sedentary jobs, or seclude themselves to research arcane lore. In effect, Medium Base Attack is the norm, and arcane casters' physical skills actually atrophy from that norm.
Hit Points, I originally improved to D6, for the same reason as above. Since PF now links Hit Die to Base Attack, and makes improvements across the board, I see no reason not to increase this to D8.
Save Progression; As the class needed to cover so many options, it did not make sense to dictate which was the good save and which the bad. A street acrobat would have good Reflex, a teamster, good Fortitude, and a crafty merchant, good Will. I also wanted to avoid dipping for an extra +2 bump, and reduce the speed of progression below that of an active adventurer. So, poor progression for all three, with the option to improve any or all, by sticking to the class.
Skill Points; tough call. Since the focus of the class is on skills, it needed to be high, but I left it short of the Rogue, so as not to overshadow it. 6 points per level is high enough to cover the bases, plus a bit extra for hobbies, and the class features will tend to affect skill use. I see 4 points as the norm, some classes improve this, some let this atrophy (to learn spells, or other awesome abilities, etc).
Class Skills; this was originally written under D&D3.5, so the assumptions were different. I granted a long list, so as to reduce the need for double-cost skills. Since that is no longer the rule, some of these could be trimmed. Since some skills have been consolidated, there are occasions where it makes sense for the NPC to be proficient at part of the skill, but not all. I erred on the generous side.
Trapfinding/Trapsense; though I am a vociferous voice, asking for the Trapfinding restriction to be removed from the game, and all classes be able to use their skills at the level they paid for, I included it here, simply for completeness, and to allow the class to create skilled artisans and locksmiths. If Trapfinding is no longer restricted to Rogues, then this can go.
Versatile; allowing the max rank to be one higher than normal allows the dedicated Professional to always be one step ahead of the adventuring amateur. It also (in D&D3.5) granted such benefits as allowing synergy effects earlier (from level 1), and the advanced skill use, such as sailors, born to the sea being able to keep their Dex while climbing rigging, circus folk to gain the increased AC from Tumble, etc. (These effects are still in PF; see Acrobatics PF Beta p55).
Professional
Base Attack: As Rogue
Fort/Ref/Will saves: all poor
Level...Class Abilities
1) Learning Mastery, Versatile, Bonus Feat*, Trapfinding
2) Bonus Feat, Medium Armour Proficiency
3) Skill Focus, Trapsense(+1)
4) Bonus Feat
5) Improved Save*
6) Bonus Feat, Leadership
7) Skill Mastery, Trapsense(+2)
8) Bonus Feat
9) Skill Specialisation, Improved Save
10) Bonus Feat
11) Trapsense(+3)
12) Bonus Feat
13) Improved Save
14) Bonus Feat
15) Trapsense(+4)
16) Bonus Feat
17)
18) Bonus Feat
19) Trapsense(+5)
20) Bonus Feat
Abilities: All are useful, but Int, Dex, Wis and Cha are the abilities that affect most skills. A high Int will also give bonus skill points, allowing best use of this class’ abilities.
Alignment: Any
Hit Die: D8
Skill Points per Level: (6 + Int bonus)
Class Skills: Acrobatics (Dex), Appraise (Int), Bluff (Cha), Climb (Str), Craft (any) (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Handle Animal (Cha), Heal (Wis), Intimidate (Cha), Knowledge (Geography)(Int), Knowledge (History)(Int), Knowledge (Local)(Int), Knowledge (Nature)(Int), Perception (Wis), Perform (any)(Cha), Profession (any)(Wis), Ride (Dex), Sense Motive (Wis), Survival (Wis), Swim (Str).
Class Features:
Weapon/Armour Proficiency: Proficient with light armour , shields (but not tower shields), all simple and martial weapons.
Learning Mastery: Maximum skill rank increased by one.
Versatile: Choose 2 cross-class skills; these are now considered class skills.
Trapfinding: As the rogue ability, can spot and disable traps/locks with a DC greater than 20.
Bonus Feat: To be picked from a specialised list below. Most of these will affect skill ranks or skill bonuses. Feats in italics are from the Ultimate Book of Feats (Mongoose Publishing). Feel free to add to this list with feats that are characterful, non-magical, and likely to see little use otherwise from PC-types.
Acrobatic, Agile, Alertness, Animal Affinity, Artisan, Athletic, Bargain, Bookworm, Caustic Wit, Cold & Cunning, Deceitful, Deft Hands, Diligent, Disease Resistant, Double-jointed, Ears of the Fox, Endurance, Etiquette, Expert Climber, Eye for Quality, Eyes of the Hawk, Fair Visage, Fortune, Gifted Learner, Golden Tongue, Green Thumb, Herculean Effort, Improved Toughness, Improved Carrying Capacity, Investigator, Keen Eyes, Knowing Glance, Light Sleeper, Low-Key, Master Helmsman, Natural Leader, Negotiator, Night Owl, Nimble Fingers, Non-Threatening, Personable, Persuasive, Poetic Speech, Rope-Climber, Run, Scavenger, Sea-legs, Seduction, Self-Sufficient, Shanty-man, Skill Focus, Skill Mastery, Skill Specialisation, Smooth Talker, Stealthy, Strength of the Earth, Strong Swimmer, Thick Skin, Tough Skin, Toughness, Trapmaster, Wall Fighter.
Improved Save: Choose from Great Fortitude, Iron Will or Lightning Reflexes. None of these feats may be taken twice. If all 3 feats have already been gained (through this ability or through picking of normal feats), any further improved save results in a re-roll (once/day), on one type of save. Once chosen, this re-roll is fixed.