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Third picture, the one on the right with the gorillas and the explorers. Look closely at the explorer to the left side of the picture...
Is that a RIFLE the explorer and the gorilla are struggling over?!?
I mean, I know that Paizo has mentioned that there will be guns SOMEWHERE in Golarion, but pulp-era explorers and gorilla-people! VERY COOL!
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Third picture, the one on the right with the gorillas and the explorers. Look closely at the explorer to the left side of the picture...
Is that a RIFLE the explorer and the gorilla are struggling over?!?
I mean, I know that Paizo has mentioned that there will be guns SOMEWHERE in Golarion, but pulp-era explorers and gorilla-people! VERY COOL!
Maybe it's a wandrifle...
Contributor
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It sure looks like a rifle, and the guy is wearing a bandoleer that looks like it's designed to hold bullets.
Given how the cannons were edited out of an earlier picture of a ship, I'd guess that this one slipped by James Jacob's eye. I think it is a more overt and modern presentation of firearms than he wanted in Golarion.
Third picture, the one on the right with the gorillas and the explorers. Look closely at the explorer to the left side of the picture...
Is that a RIFLE the explorer and the gorilla are struggling over?!?
I mean, I know that Paizo has mentioned that there will be guns SOMEWHERE in Golarion, but pulp-era explorers and gorilla-people! VERY COOL!
The clothing is a bit too modern for my tastes; I've noticed quiet a few instances of Napoleonic/Victorian era fashion in the art posts.
Is this the direction Paizo is going to be leaning with the visual style of the clothing for Pathfinder?
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RPG Superstar 2013 Top 4, RPG Superstar 2011 Top 16
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I'm with Polevi, some of the Pathfinder nations and illustrations have been straying a little too far beyond the medieval/renaissance period for my tastes. Shorts, Pith Helmets, and Rifles? Far too 18th century IMO. I mean none of those explorers look like adventurers at all.
I love it! I know that pseudo-medieval Golarion is the default setting, but there's no reason a campaign can't have more of a Renaissance-y feel, or even a Victorian one for that matter. I hope they keep mixing it up. 700-pound swords and spiked armor are fine and dandy, but from my personal standpoint, they get a bit monotonous after a while. YMMV.
There was a Stephen R. Donaldson short story that had a man dropped off in a wild game park where the animals bore cybernetically implanted weapons and could shoot back. I believe there was a gorilla with a blaster for a hand.
I think I'd almost prefer to be shot and killed from a distance than to be winged and have said simian close the distance to finish me off. One of the worst ways to go would be to watch an ape ground and pound me into a gruesome mire of crimson sauce with thunderous arcing batterings of a twenty pound hunk of steel. Well, that and death by chocolate. No one should have to die from treat exposure. No one.
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Sure looks like a rifle... heck this doesn't look much like a fantasy setting at all. The guy who is about to get dismembered has a modern looking belt buckle and shoes.
On the other hand the guy in the background is most definitely holding a spear. Maybe the front guy is holding a spear as well, hard to say. I agree that stylistically it looks late 19th century early 20th.
Then again I'm still reeling over the hot looking mummy from yesterday. Kind of redefines Mummy I'd Like...
-- Dennis
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I'm with Kirth on this one; I like the somewhat anacronistic mix of styles and genres. Quite frankly, I think mixing swords and guns is downright cool, and the inclusion of "Victorian" or "Pulp-Era" adventurers hearkens to some of my favorite source material: Indiana Jones.
If we look at it from a practical level in an attempt to rationalize what at first seems anachronistic, Golarion is much, MUCH older than Earth. Thassilon itself is roughly 10,000 years old, and it was a well established empire with plenty of sentient folks. Compare that to Earth 10,000 years ago, when humans (the first and ONLY sentient race on our planet) had just began to shift to an agrarian societal structure. Considering the fact that sentient creatures such as dragons, elves, gnomes, and other things have been on Golarion for much longer than we humans have been on Earth, it seems to reason to me that technological advancements such as guns are only a matter of time. (I'd actually expect one of those other races, read: dragons or gnomes, to have developed them first.)
I think it also fits quite well with the anachronistic cultural implications that D&D has; if cultures have been around and thriving in societies as advances as Thassilon was for thousands upon thousands of years, I imagine that there are plenty of cultures who've transitioned out of the medieval-Earth equivalent feudal system, and the culture accompanying it (here I'm talking about "thee" and "thou" and "my liege"; some of the more common medieval stereotypes). Eberron is a good example of a fantasy setting with advanced, almost modern cultural developments.
BUT, like the Paizo staff has said on a number of occaisions, if a part of the book they publish doesn't jive with you, change it so that it suits you! :-)
…Golarion is much, MUCH older than Earth.
Ah contraire. While popular history may agree with you there are some who believe advanced civilizations on Earth stretch back much further than we suspect.
BUT, like the Paizo staff has said on a number of occaisions, if a part of the book they publish doesn't jive with you, change it so that it suits you! :-)
True, but I know Paizo listens to their fans so by sharing my opinion I hopefully increase the odds of getting more art in their products that I’m going to be willing to share with my players.
That being said, I can respect you and Kirth’s opinion as well and I’m glad some don’t find the art to jarringly modern.
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That being said, I can respect you and Kirth’s opinion as well and I’m glad some don’t find the art to jarringly modern.
:-)
True indeed! It also reminds me of the Final Fantasy series, which is another set of stories I love. I imagine it's tough, though, for Paizo to balance such a diverse preference in gamer taste. I figure a little bit of most things satisfies the crowd, so I imagine each of us will get things we like and don't like (psionics are grit in my craw, for example).
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One of the worst ways to go would be to watch an ape ground and pound me into a gruesome mire of crimson sauce with thunderous arcing batterings of a twenty pound hunk of steel. Well, that and death by chocolate. No one should have to die from treat exposure. No one.
How about Death by Mau Mau?
One of the worst ways to go would be to watch an ape ground and pound me into a gruesome mire of crimson sauce with thunderous arcing batterings of a twenty pound hunk of steel. Well, that and death by chocolate. No one should have to die from treat exposure. No one.How about Death by Mau Mau?
Lol. Very much worth the watch. Thank you.
Creative Director
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One of the semi-secret design theories for Golarion... the further south on the map you get, the "wackier" and more "high fantasy" (and more technological stuff) you'll see showing up. To the north, it's pretty gritty and Robert E. Howard type stuff, but far to the south it's a LOT more pulpy and crazy.
SO! Yes, that is indeed a rifle the gorilla and the explorer are wrestling with. I do agree that their clothing seems anachronistic, and you'll probably not be seeing much more in the way of pith helmets in the pages of Pathfinder products... but that said, one of our goals with Golarion was to build a world that allowed MANY different styles of play. That includes the pulpy type content you see in that illustration.
There are rules for firearms in the hardcover, in other words.
And in fact, in a weird kind of way, I suspect that rifles themselves are more common than wandrifles. (Rifles aren't that common at all, though... I'm mostly saying here that the mix of high fantasy and technology you saw with the wand rifle was part of an earlier bit of world flexing type stuff we were experimenting with in the earliest days of Golarion... and one in particular that we aren't likely to focus on or follow up much on in the future.)
Death by Mau Mau?
Or Snu Snu?
About the rifle, And I who thought: "that's a cool look for a bunch of Pathfinder Wizards from Taldor (matching the gazetteer headshot) and their arcane bonded wands and staves!". No armor, bandoliers as component pouches, etc. Just a thought.
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There are rules for firearms in the hardcover, in other words.
Woot!
I guess this makes sense in the eternal war between Geb and Nex...more advances..wacky, steampunk prototypes...
also noticed this in River into Darkness with the boat engine. But no one really knows how to make new ones, just maintain the old ones.
kinda like WH40K.
I've raised this concern before, so I've seen James' south-technology-wackiness reference before.
While I'm in favor of supporting a wide range of play styles, I still fear this kind of stuff drives an inconsistent view of Golarion. Perhaps it will be addressed in the campaign hardcover, I certainly hope so. Too often, modules highlight the "exceptions" but the art and the stories are viewed by players as indicators of what is "mainstream".
And it's all well and good to say more technology is available in the south, but it's unrealistic to suggest the technology won't have a potential impact to the grittier, swords-n-sorcery regions. The more advanced technology would, convceivably, make it easier to conquer the less developed regions. Also with teleport, aerial mounts, etc. It would seem plausible that it would be easier for technology to be removed from one region to another and influence that region. Technologically advanced cultures can, and historically, did impact less advanced cultures (for better or worse). We've already seen where cultures widely separated can impact another in CotCT (Varisia & Vudra) - to think technology differences between much closer countries will not have an impact is doing the setting a disservice.
I'd much rather see pulp-style tropes (ruins, lost civilizations, two-fisted action, etc.) within the framework of an established tech-level rather than as pockets of weirdness. After all, Conan is a pulp hero and many of his adventures could easily be transposed to a classic 1930s era Indiana Jones style adventure.
Yes, this can be changed as needed by the GM to suit his or her GM tastes. I have to say, however, this is the single biggest factor holding me back from switching over to Golarion as my campaign setting of choice. Right now I'm mining it for ideas. I have little or no interest in running or playing in a steampunk, Victorian, Revolutionary War-era, or 1930s pulp setting - at least not for good-old-fashioned sword-n-sorcery. If that's what Golarion is supposed to be, then embrace it whole-hog. I didn't think that was the case so I wish it'd stop veering into those areas.
I'm not saying Golarion will be this kind of setting, but right now I'm seeing too many "cool exceptions" and not enough "rule" to gauge if this setting is right for me and my group. Until that becomes clear, Pathfinder APs and sourcebooks are, for me, tools for GM-pick-and-choose only.
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Creative Director
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One thing to keep in mind: The Hardcover hasn't shipped to the printer yet. Until you see the final printed book... well, THAT'S what you should consider canon, really. AKA: There's a VERY GOOD chance (as in 99.99946%) I'm going to have the rifle + anchronistic clothing illustration of the gorilla vs pulp explore cut from the book because it doesn't fit the style of the world.
Sometimes, the art previews on our blog are just that; previews. Think of them as Bonus Pictures! :)
ALSO: I'm going to try to make sure that the pictures that get previewed are more accurate representations of what we're up to. If we do a 256 page book about vampires, and one picuture is from a 2 page appendix at the back that's about "OTHER UNDEAD" and has a picture of a mummy, don't expect to see the mummy picture previewed as part of the vampire book preview...
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Creative Director
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I'm happy to hear that Paizo is considering an approach that opens Pathfinder to multiple eras of play. I'm a big d20 Modern fan and have enjoyed reading many of the adventures with an eye to converting. You guys make my life easy.
So . . . when do we get Pathfinder Modern?
Actually, you may have read a bit TOO much into what I said. As I mentioned in the last post, the more I've thought about it... the more that particular illustrtion doesn't "FEEL" Golarion to me.
As for Modern stuff... maybe some day. If we DO Modern stuff, though, it'll be under a different brand from Pathfinder. Pathfinder's our fantasy setting, and is only one thing that Paizo's doing. It just happens to be the BIGGEST thing we're doing now... but in 3 years, we might well have some other campaigns and/or games out there, including d20 Modern stuff. Who knows?
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Ach. Three years?! Umph. Ouch!
Excuse my while I try to tape together my burst bubble.
Ah well. Bummer.
(Could I at least convince you to test your audience with a poll to see the level of interest for a "Pathfinder Modern"? (I only say Pathfinder, because I envision much of the Pathfinder rules rolling into a d20 Modern system.)
When I first saw that picture, I thought I was looking at a Planet Stories illustration... Definitely agree that it doesn't have a Pathfinder feel, despite the fact that it has guns and evil gorillas, and Pathfinder has guns and most likely evil gorillas as well.
Looooove the pic. Loooove the idea of more technology down south. As long as Golarion is a BIG OLD world, why not have some different eras in the various areas. North & South America were technologically vastly differerent from Europe in the 15th century. Magic the great equalizer could keep the north free from being conquered, if the south even had any interest in the barbaric north.
I want more and more of that kind of thing, but will accept little tidbits understanding the "traditional medieval/renaissance" model is favored by most fantasy RPG players.
I also looooove that we're going to have other planets to explore.
I 8> Paizo.
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Creative Director
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A little off topic but I noticed one of the pictures had several of the iconics battling a dragon so I was wondering if only some or all the iconics would be appearing in the book and if not all of them which ones are being left out?
All of the iconics but Seyltiel are in there somewhere (Seyltiel's art came in just a bit too late to make it in time for the art order for the book.)
Going forward from here, though, you can expect to see our 12 iconics showing up relatively frequently, but not with any real pattern.
Wait a minute! There's a picture of a HUGE FRIKKIN' AWESOME APE and people are looking at some blurry maybe-rifle.... Sheesh, you people....
;p
I'm seriously bummed this might not be in the book. Ah well, it's now my desktop wallpaper.
:D
Peace,
tfad
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I'm all for higher levels of tech in certain areas of Golarion. Even the modern world has wildly divergent tech levels. The "firstworld" nations like the US, Canada, most of Europe, and South Korea, Japan, etc. have one level of tech, the "second world" like Mexico, certain Eastern European countries, much of South America, etc. have another leve, "third world" nations have another, and then there's the primitive tribes in South America, Africa, and the Australian outback.
But really, I just want to play a gun-toting paladin. :)
Also, I'm surprised that the other pictures aren't getting much attention. That statue with the magical torch, the HUGE palace, and the picture of Amiri, Merisiel, and Sajan mixing it up with the black dragon are all awesome.
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The Chinese had firearms during the medieval era that would be compatible with the era set forth by Golarion. There's no reason we shouldn't have archaic firearms here. That said, I agree that the gorilla pic is probably anachronistic. But perhaps the pic can be kept in the section on rifles . . . or if there's a blurb in the PRPG about how to play Golarion in other ers. (I understand James is against openly franchising the setting out to other eras, but what about just a page or a column on how it could be done?)
There was a Stephen R. Donaldson short story that had a man dropped off in a wild game park where the animals bore cybernetically implanted weapons and could shoot back. I believe there was a gorilla with a blaster for a hand.
Seriously. You can't come in here, talking about this gun-fisted gorilla, and not give us a title. How am I supposed to read this story now? This is gonna keep me up all week! This is worse than the time I lost my pen and had to call off work for 3 days while I looked for it! Jerk!
Third picture, the one on the right with the gorillas and the explorers. Look closely at the explorer to the left side of the picture...
Is that a RIFLE the explorer and the gorilla are struggling over?!?
I mean, I know that Paizo has mentioned that there will be guns SOMEWHERE in Golarion, but pulp-era explorers and gorilla-people! VERY COOL!
Somehow the picture just doesn't look fantasy to me.
No big deal, just my 2c.
For God's sake, leave the great apes alone! I hope they DO massacre these shameless human colonizers.
Hum...
For God's sake, leave the great apes alone! I hope they DO massacre these shameless human colonizers.
Ape shall not kill ape!
They shall instead kill men in scary-looking shorts!
There are rules for firearms in the hardcover, in other words.
As long as they are compatible with d20 Modern I'll be happy.With references to starships and robots in the Gazetteer I want to be abble suprise my players with occasional semi-functional plasma pistol from d20 Future without to much conversion work.
Ach. Three years?! Umph. Ouch!
Excuse my while I try to tape together my burst bubble.
Ah well. Bummer.
Nick Logue is producing some new d20 Modern/Future stuff at Sinister Adventures if you need a fix for your habit :).
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RPG Superstar 2013 Top 4, RPG Superstar 2011 Top 16
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Yeah that pic would be awesome in Planet stories and the idea of explorers running into dire gorillas that may or may not be intelligent could definitely work in Pathfinder. I would just keep the time periods between the bronze age and the early age of discovery... that's a nice wide brush to paint a canvas with.
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CEO
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Just to follow up on this thread, James and Erik ultimately pulled this picture from the campaign setting book. It also has gotten us to set a goal of putting together a graphic style guide for our artists and examine how we hire artists and get them their assignments. So in that regard, the picture was a success, because it is going to force us to get better! :)
-Lisa