Classic Monsters not in 4E MM?


4th Edition

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Stone Giants are kina in there... as the Earth Titan. Yeah I know, not really the same thing but with the re-imagining of Giants and Titans I'm pretty sure they had the Stone Giant in mind when they made the Earth Titan (they look practically the same, so much so that it would be superfluous to create a Stone Giant now). Missing Frost Giants was a surprise though.

I'm sure that all these fan favorites will be sprinkled throughout the coming MMs - its a good marketing plan that makes sure the monsters in future releases are still vitally tied to the D&D world. I know that I've held out on buying some of the past monster supplements because it seemed the monster ideas were starting to reach a little too far (they employed this strategy in the last 3.5 MM by revisting many classic monsters and as far as I can tell it was well recieved).


The figure in Dungeons of Dread is a GynoSpinx because it has a riddle power. It perpetuates the myth that smart women are ugly.
I'm sorry but a Spinx has a more or less human face.

I looked back through the Monster Manual and Fire Elemental is not there.
There are thoes humanoid Fire and Ice Archons or whatever.
No Mephits yet, even though they are not classical.

The Advanced D&D Monster Manual hardbound is what I consider classic.
4 Elementals, 4 spinxes, 6 demons, and 5 cromatic dragons.


I don't know if we'll actually see Elementals ala older editions in 4E. There are no more Elemental Planes like in older editions, more of a mixture of multiple types (which is why all of the elementals in the 4E MM are mixtures of two or more elements!)

The designers have said they're trying to move beyond the old idea of classical Greek elements, which I'm interested in them continuing. I think moving back to just Fire, Earth, Air and Water would be step backwards, but maybe that's just me.

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Snorter wrote:
JoelF847 wrote:
Which Sphinx made the cut? Gyno or Andro?

What about the Gyro-Sphinx?

The one with Skill Focus (Balance), and Whirlwind Attack?

Would it often be encounted with pita bread? Or would that be a Gyros-Sphinx?

Scarab Sages

JoelF847 wrote:
Which Sphinx made the cut? Gyno or Andro?

What about the Anthro-sphinx?

The one with the front half of a human, and the...err.. back half of ...umm...a human?


EileenProphetofIstus wrote:


it was listed as "Sphinx", no mention of a specific species. I guess it was generic.

The elusive "Genero-Sphinx".


The Anthro-Spinx or Anthropormorphic Spinx is a lion that walks on 2 legs, talks, has thumbs, and has wings like a giant eagle.
There's a web cartoon somewhere where all the characters are that.

A Generic Spinx is what they had in advanced and 3X.
Just add the riddle ability and it's perfect.

Liberty's Edge RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32, 2011 Top 16

Goth Guru wrote:

The Anthro-Spinx or Anthropormorphic Spinx is a lion that walks on 2 legs, talks, has thumbs, and has wings like a giant eagle.

There's a web cartoon somewhere where all the characters are that.

Okay, but how many legs does it walk on in the morning or in the evening?


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

There are no Bombardier, Boring, Rhinoceros, Stag, or Water Beetles. There is a Fire Beetle but its nothing like the "classic" Fire Beetle.

I don't recall seeing a Giant Centipede either which I find odd considering the card for the Dungeon of Dread mini had 4E stats

Also missing are:

Axe Beak
Centaur
Cockatrice (yet there's a mini for it in the upcoming set)
Ghast
Giant Frog
Giant Slug
Giant Wasp
Leucrotta
Mimic
Sabre-tooth Tiger
Winter Wolf

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Erik Mona wrote:

I love monsters.

The fact that I love "canonical" first edition monsters more than the others and don't like to see them maligned is one of my major sticking points with the new edition.

Aren't you supposed to love all your little monsters equally? Won't some of your little monsters get upset if they know? It could scare them for life.


Let's not forget that on page 184 of the 4E MM there is a big section dedicated to creating your own monsters. You can use this to make 4E versions of your old favorites. I did it recently for Kenku ;)


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Oops. I see Mimic was already listed.

I'm not finding Horned Devil in the 4E MM. Am I just missing it or is it another one for the list?


sykoholic wrote:

Oops. I see Mimic was already listed.

I'm not finding Horned Devil in the 4E MM. Am I just missing it or is it another one for the list?

Nope. It's just that, now that the Axebeak, Giant Slug, and the Leucrotta were included in the list, the thread changed from "Classic Monsters not in the 4E MM" to "Personal favorite monsters not in the 4E MM".


I'm sad there's no behirs or derro... The loss of duergar is harmful too. The underdark just won't be the same without those crazy small dudes.


For those looking for truely classic monsters heres a list of monsters appearing in the orignal Dungeons and Dragons Monsters and Treasures book:

Men
Goblin/Kobold
Orcs
Hobgoblins/Gnolls
Ogres
Trolls
Giants (including Hill, Stone, Frost, Fire, and Cloud)
Skeletons/Zombies
Ghouls
Wights
Wraiths
Mummies
Spectres
Vampires
Cockatrices
Basilisks
Medusae
Gorgons
Manticores
Hydras
Chimeras
Wyverns
Dragons (including White, Black, Green, Blue, Red and Golden)
Balrogs
Lycanthrophes (Werewolf, Wereboar, Weretiger, and Werebear)
Purple Worms
Sea Monsters
Minotaurs
Centaurs
Unicorns
Nixies
Pixies
Dryads
Gnomes
Dwarves
Elves
Ents
Pegasi
Hippogriffs
Rocs
Griffons
Invisible Stalkers
Elementals (Air, Earth, Fire, and Water)
Djinn
Efreet
Ochre Jelly
Black Pudding
Green Slime
Gray Ooze
Yellow Mold
Light Horse
Medium Horse
Heavy Horse
Draft Horse
Mule
Small insects or animals
Large insects or animals

Note that several iconic monters such as Liches, Beholders, Umber Hulks, and Beholders don't show up until the Greyhawk Supplement. The only Demon listed is the Balrog. One has to wait for Eltrich Wizardy for the others to appear.

P.S. I am still afraid of Black Puddings


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Krauser_Levyl wrote:
Nope. It's just that, now that the Axebeak, Giant Slug, and the Leucrotta were included in the list, the thread changed from "Classic Monsters not in the 4E MM" to "Personal favorite monsters not in the 4E MM".

I guess its a matter of personal definition regarding the term "classic". Obviously, not everyone is going to agree on what is a "classic" and what is not.


I wouldnt be surprised to see single element...elementals, in a later Monster Manual. After all, they wanted to emphasize that ALL of the books will be core.


I consider metallic dragons 'Classic'.
I do not understand how Bahamut became de-dragonfied.
Did it take some kind of operation?


JoelF847 wrote:
I've heard/read that some (or many) monsters that have been considered a classic part of D&D across all editions aren't in the 4E MM. The only ones I've heard of specifically are the Frost Giant and Iron Golem. Has anyone else compiled a list of which others have been 'held back' or not included?

Isn't it obvious? A simple marketing scheme by WotC, amongst their many other corporate crap schemes.

If you want those other classics, you HAVE to buy the Monster Manual 2. If it's not in 2 then wait for 3 and so on.

It's the same with the missing classes, Barbarian, Druid, Bard, Monk, Sorcerer.

Apparently, 4E's direction now is "less is more" and not for your games...the phrase actually applies to their revenue. Give less material, and you'll get more money down the road to those starved for the "missing" material.

Ahh...the corporate world of D&D...how sad to see it arrive. I miss TSR all the more.


Imredave wrote:

For those looking for truely classic monsters heres a list of monsters appearing in the orignal Dungeons and Dragons Monsters and Treasures book:

Men
Goblin/Kobold
Orcs
Hobgoblins/Gnolls
Ogres
Trolls
Giants (including Hill, Stone, Frost, Fire, and Cloud)
Skeletons/Zombies
Ghouls
Wights
Wraiths
Mummies
Spectres
Vampires
Cockatrices
Basilisks
Medusae
Gorgons
Manticores
Hydras
Chimeras
Wyverns
Dragons (including White, Black, Green, Blue, Red and Golden)
Balrogs
Lycanthrophes (Werewolf, Wereboar, Weretiger, and Werebear)
Purple Worms
Sea Monsters
Minotaurs
Centaurs
Unicorns
Nixies
Pixies
Dryads
Gnomes
Dwarves
Elves
Ents
Pegasi
Hippogriffs
Rocs
Griffons
Invisible Stalkers
Elementals (Air, Earth, Fire, and Water)
Djinn
Efreet
Ochre Jelly
Black Pudding
Green Slime
Gray Ooze
Yellow Mold
Light Horse
Medium Horse
Heavy Horse
Draft Horse
Mule
Small insects or animals
Large insects or animals

Note that several iconic monters such as Liches, Beholders, Umber Hulks, and Beholders don't show up until the Greyhawk Supplement. The only Demon listed is the Balrog. One has to wait for Eltrich Wizardy for the others to appear.

P.S. I am still afraid of Black Puddings

Interesting to see what has become classic. I think the only monster that didn't make it in 2E/3E was the mule. I guess the light draft horse basically filled that role.


While many are missing, some are not too hard to add back in. There was a thread on RPG.net about Iron Golems in 4e, and as an example, I whipped one up in the thread, using the DMG guidelines and the golem examples in the MM to work with. Took me about 20 minutes, and that was mostly page flipping and finding my old 2e Monstrous Compendium to check something. Came out pretty good, I think.

So while things are missing, it is quite possible to add them back, and even easier once you are used to it. The biggest hurdle for me was getting out of the 3.X rut of trying to make things "exact", and getting back to the 2e/red box way of just "it does this, because I want it to".


Men-Humans are in there
Goblin/Koboldi-In there
Orcs-In there
Hobgoblins/Gnolls-In there
Ogres-In there
Trolls-In there
Giants (including Hill, Stone, Frost, Fire, and Cloud-Most of those
Skeletons/Zombies-In there
Ghouls-In there
Wights-In there
Wraiths-In there
Mummies-In there
Spectres-In there
Vampires-In there
Basilisks-In there
Medusae-In there
Gorgons-In there
Manticores-In there
Hydras-In there
Chimeras-In there
Wyverns-In there
Dragons (including White, Black, Green, Blue, Red and Golden)-In there
Balrogs-In there
Lycanthrophes (Werewolf, Wereboar, Weretiger, and Werebear)-Half are
Purple Worms-In there
Minotaurs-In there
Unicorns-In there
Dryads-In there
Gnomes-In there
Dwarves-In there
Elves-In there
Pegasi-In there
Hippogriffs-In there
Rocs-In there
Griffons-In there
Invisible Stalkers-In there
Elementals (Air, Earth, Fire, and Water-In there
Djinn-In there
Efreet-In there
Ochre Jelly-In there
Black Pudding-In there
Green Slime-In there

Seems like they got basically all the iconics.


Yeah... for the monsters you simply must have, it's a simple process to create your own 4E versions of them. I made 4E stats for behirs and shocker lizards earlier today, and it didn't take too long at all.


After more careful thought, I realized that the missing monsters weren't really my cup of tea to begin with. And I don't know why I keep claiming TSR was a good carekeeper of D&D. It's really hard to type that with a straight face, it's just such b%!+~~$!.

Anyway, I love 4e!!!

4e 4ever!!!

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