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I have suggested a few new races in the past that I would like to see included in Pathfinder as core. However, after seeing Kung Fu Panda I know exactly waht I want. I would like to see a race like the WoW Panderians with monk as their favored class. I will get down on my hands and knees if I must and beg. I would like to hear other suggestions for new or variant core races.
No.
I would like to see a race like the WoW Panderians with monk as their favored class. I will get down on my hands and knees if I must and beg.
No new Races. And certainly NOT the Pandaren. This is not only an incredibly silly and unoriginal request on your behalf but more importantly if you want to play as a Pandaren all you have to do is to simply purchase and play the WoW RPG.
No, Pandaran belong in WOW and WOW alone. On the request for new races in general, it detracts from the core principle of Pathfinder RPG: reworking D&D 3.5 - nothing should be added for the sake of adding things.
However, I did make a panda race once, but it had Wu Jen as a favored class and not related to Pandaran (I didn't know about them at the time).
I have to vote no too.
My reason being that the core races in Paizo should be the same as the core races in 3.5 PHB.
That's not to say that there shouldn't be new races... but that is a topic for a book after the Paizo PHB is done... and of course, since you brought it up, I am sure that someone or many someones will take a crack at Kung-Fu Panda race design.
Sorry buddy. While I might like the idea of one or two new races in the CORE(!) book,
they should be quite flexible in flavor and useage (from a campaign/setting builders stand).
Antropomorphic animals like your pandaran are just WAY too special and won't make it in the CORE.
BTW, why do you need them in the Core book?!
If you like them sooo much (btw, I do too!), just build your own and use it.
Much better than any stuff someone else does for your interests, I'd guess.
I would rather like to see some "monsters" being converted to actual races, giving them real kingdoms/realms etc.
The most important ones:
- Orcs (I never liked the still-tolkienish way of making them savage monsters, WoW did better, sorry to say)
- Goblins (Those little suckers are just under-estimated, give them a slight bumb and make em some sort of inverted halflings... or so...)
- Hobgoblins (They scream for building some form of kingdom!)
- Lizardmen (I am thinking about the Warhammer Fantasy Army - Aztecan like...)
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Look at the feature set for the Beta Release
# Revised rules for the seven classic fantasy RPG races
# Updated options for the 11 core classe
No new races, no new classes. Pandas sound interesting but there are quite a few other races which have more history in the game which would make more sense for PC races.
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While I too give a hearty "no" to Pandarian, and fully understand that the beta will not have new races, at this point in fantasy role-playing in general could a race be generated that truly is unique for the Pathfinder world?
We already have seen numerous cat and lizard races, living golems, shapeshifters of various sorts, planetouched, half-orcs/ogres/hobgoblins, dragon-kind, giants, various variants of gnomes, dwarves, elves, and halflings, and most humanoids. What is there left that's really unique that Pathfinder could take as their own?
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What is there left that's really unique that Pathfinder could take as their own?
Have you read classic monsters revisited? Awesome perspective of classic monsters which make them unique to Pathfinder. I'm not sure how much of this stuff will trickle into PfRPG but... fun stuff. Even though their stats are the same Pathfinder Goblins are completely unlike the goblins from the MM in my head now. Fun stuff, I can't wait for the PfRPG Monster Manual.
-- Dennis
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No, Pandaran belong in WOW and WOW alone. On the request for new races in general, it detracts from the core principle of Pathfinder RPG: reworking D&D 3.5 - nothing should be added for the sake of adding things
Adding new races has been a tradition since D&D began. The first rules had only dwarf, elf, and halfling. At the time they were classes. Only Humans could by wizards, rogues, fighters clerics and the like. Then when AD&D came out dwarfs, elves, and halflings could start taking class levels. 2nd edition added gnomes and half-elves, and finally half-orcs were added in 3rd edition. Adding one or two new core races would not be just for the sake of adding things, it would be for the sake of tradition.
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While I too give a hearty "no" to Pandarian, and fully understand that the beta will not have new races, at this point in fantasy role-playing in general could a race be generated that truly is unique for the Pathfinder world?
We already have seen numerous cat and lizard races, living golems, shapeshifters of various sorts, planetouched, half-orcs/ogres/hobgoblins, dragon-kind, giants, various variants of gnomes, dwarves, elves, and halflings, and most humanoids. What is there left that's really unique that Pathfinder could take as their own?
From the earliest days of fantasy rpgs, truly original races have been few and far between, at least in terms of core races. Most have been from traditional mythology, usually with a Tolkien twist to them. I think that originality is not as important as playable and excitablity. WoW has not come up with anything original, and yet look at how many imposters it has spawned, including 4th edition.
RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32, 2011 Top 16
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No, Pandaran belong in WOW and WOW alone. On the request for new races in general, it detracts from the core principle of Pathfinder RPG: reworking D&D 3.5 - nothing should be added for the sake of adding thingsAdding new races has been a tradition since D&D began. The first rules had only dwarf, elf, and halfling. At the time they were classes. Only Humans could by wizards, rogues, fighters clerics and the like. Then when AD&D came out dwarfs, elves, and halflings could start taking class levels. 2nd edition added gnomes and half-elves, and finally half-orcs were added in 3rd edition. Adding one or two new core races would not be just for the sake of adding things, it would be for the sake of tradition.
Actually 1st edition AKA AD&D had gnomes, half-elves and half-orcs, these were not added in 2nd or 3rd edition.
Also, regardless of if previous editions have added races or not, Pathfinder's design goals is to update 3.5 and not add new classes or races until later sourcebooks. No matter how much you might want it to be otherwise, it's been clearly stated that it won't happen.
Adding new races has been a tradition since D&D began. The first rules had only dwarf, elf, and halfling. At the time they were classes. Only Humans could by wizards, rogues, fighters clerics and the like. Then when AD&D came out dwarfs, elves, and halflings could start taking class levels. 2nd edition added gnomes and half-elves, and finally half-orcs were added in 3rd edition. Adding one or two new core races would not be just for the sake of adding things, it would be for the sake of tradition.
Er... no. The original D&D game had elves and dwarves as PC races. They were limited in what levels they could achieve (4th level fighter / 8th level magic user for elves and so on), but they used the same classes as humans. You are thinking of the "basic" D&D that came out later, it had the races as classes -- one of it's most serious problems imo. Gnomes, half elves and others (as well as many classes -- i.e. the Thief, added in the Greyhawk supplement) were added in the original D&D as well (either in supplements or articles in The Dragon). The number of core races / classes has varied over the various D&D editions. Half Orcs have been "in" and "out" several times for example.
I think the appropriate place for new races, lots of new races, is the Pathfinder bestiary.
In the SRD we find:
Dwarf
Deep Dwarf
Duergar
Mountain Dwarf
Elf
Half-Elf
Aquatic Elf
Drow
Gray Elf
Wild Elf
Wood Elf
Gnome
Svirfneblin (Who never found a new way to say hooray!)
Forest Gnome
Halfling
Tallfellow
Deep Halfling
Orc
Half-Orcs
Planetouched
Aasimar
Tiefling
and plenty of other cool playable gems, like lizardfolk.
I think that there should be a secion in the bestiary under anything playable, as there is now, and the core should just give the 3.5 essentials.
I would like to see the elemental planetouched, but only in whatever planar cosmology we get down the line.
Eric. You guys are going to give us an outer-planar sourcebook, right?
Considering Eric's love of all things infernal and abyssal, I would bet money that Pathfinder will have a manual of the planes, and the best cosmology ever made. Call Zeb Cook and Jeff Grub, and make it happen.
I am sitting looking at my 2nd edition Player's Handbook and I can assure you that there are no half-orcs.Actually 1st edition AKA AD&D had gnomes, half-elves and half-orcs, these were not added in 2nd or 3rd edition.
I am looking at the June 1982 issue of Dragon #62... The Half Orc Point of View article by Roger Moore(Best editor Dragon ever had IMHO).
The Halorc was left out in 2nd edition which bothered enough people that it made it back in 3rd edition.
Tieflings As Characters
Tiefling characters possess the following racial traits.
+2 Dexterity, +2 Intelligence, -2 Charisma.
Medium size.
A tiefling’s base land speed is 30 feet.
Darkvision out to 60 feet.
Racial Skills: Tieflings have a +2 racial bonus on Bluff and Hide checks.
Racial Feats: A tiefling gains feats according to its class levels.
Special Attacks (see above): Darkness.
Special Qualities (see above): Resistance to cold 5, electricity 5, and fire 5.
Automatic Languages: Common, Infernal. Bonus Languages: Draconic, Dwarven, Elven, Gnome, Goblin, Halfling, Orc.
Favored Class: Rogue.
Level adjustment +1.
It is all there in the SRD already.
I just hope that they are able to include monster levels, rather than level adjustments, but that is a topic for another time.
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Tieflings As Characters
Tiefling characters possess the following racial traits.+2 Dexterity, +2 Intelligence, -2 Charisma.
Medium size.
A tiefling’s base land speed is 30 feet.
Darkvision out to 60 feet.
Racial Skills: Tieflings have a +2 racial bonus on Bluff and Hide checks.
Racial Feats: A tiefling gains feats according to its class levels.
Special Attacks (see above): Darkness.
Special Qualities (see above): Resistance to cold 5, electricity 5, and fire 5.
Automatic Languages: Common, Infernal. Bonus Languages: Draconic, Dwarven, Elven, Gnome, Goblin, Halfling, Orc.
Favored Class: Rogue.
Level adjustment +1.It is all there in the SRD already.
I just hope that they are able to include monster levels, rather than level adjustments, but that is a topic for another time.
Because of the power bumps that all the other races recieved for PFRPG it would seem likely that a Tiefling would not even require a level boost if they were included in the core rules.
I will definitely agree no new core book races...
However, some tweaks to existing races to reduce/eliminate LAs (or increase power level) for some in future monster books I can agree with: Aasimar, Hobgoblin, and Tiefling tweaked to lose the LA and Orc, Goblin and Kobold increased in power to equal current core 7. Actually eliminating the LAs for certain racial HD monsters would be helpful too: Lizardfolk, Gnoll, and Bugbear, I'm looking at you here, since these should probably lose the LA with the core 7 getting "upgunned" as it were, in power. Just my 2cp
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The beauty of most RPGs is that (unless you're playing in an official RPGA or Pathfinder Society event) you can add whatever kind of races, classes, house rules, etc. to your gaming table. However, the core rules of Pathfinder should be the core - period. Feel free to customize your own game as you see fit, but please don't force any freaky new races on the rest of us. BTW, I absolutely love the way Pathfinder treats goblins and other monsters - as monsters. The Classic Monsters Revisited book is a great read and has provided much inspiration around our gaming table.
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Y'know i'd love to find out what really makes any race a core race. I mean honestly does it matter that only those listed in the PHB be first out of the gate?
In my not so respected opinion we could leave off any two and be fine. core is only relavent to the tale this is the setting's prime conceit.
I agree with no new races, but i would love to see some of the paizo brain trust thinking about how LA / monster levels / racial feats would work in pathfinder to enable you to play any race. 3,5 is a bit of a confused mess at the moment....
and just a thought, but if PF is to be truly backwards compatible, you have to assume that people will be using non-ogl races in their games....
For the love of god, no.
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Here is the panda-like race I developed:
Toleeran Racial Traits
+2 Str, +2 Con, -2 Wis
Slow Speed: Toleerans have a base speed of 20 ft.
Medium: Toleeran are Medium creatures and receive no special benefits or penalties due to size.
Low-light Vision: Toleerans can see twice as far as humans in conditions of poor illumination.
Bonus Feat: Toleerans gain Toughness as a bonus feat.
Weapon Specializations: Toleerans treat monk special weapons as martial weapons.
Languages: Toleerans speak Tian and Toleeran
Favored Classes: The favored class of Toleeran is monk or sorcerer. This decision must be made at first level and cannot be changed after word.
Note: I decided to name the race after Tolee, a koala who has a panda fixation on one of my daughter's favorite shows Ni Hao, Kai-lan
And a flying race that I adapted for my attempted Heroscape d20 conversion
Kyrie Racial Traits
+2 Dex, +2 Wisdom, -2 Con
Normal Speed: Kyrie have a base move speed of 30 ft and have a base fly speed of 50 ft (poor)
Medium Size: Kyrie are Medium creatures and do not get any special bonuses or penelties for size
Heightened Senses: Kyrie senses are more highly attuned than humans are and they gain a +2 racial bonus on Perception checks.
Languages: Kyrie speak Common and Kyrie
Favored Class: The favored class of the Kyrie is cleric or fighter. The choice must be made at first level and cannot be changed afterwards.
Unfortunately, if I remember correctly I think both James and Erik have said that they are not fans of creating new anthropomorphic animal races. So a race of Panda-men in Pathfinder seems unlikely.
Eric. You guys are going to give us an outer-planar sourcebook, right?
Considering Eric's love of all things infernal and abyssal, I would bet money that Pathfinder will have a manual of the planes, and the best cosmology ever made.
Ooh! I hope you're right! It would be awesome!
:D
Peace,
tfad
No, Pandaran belong in WOW and WOW alone. On the request for new races in general, it detracts from the core principle of Pathfinder RPG: reworking D&D 3.5 - nothing should be added for the sake of adding thingsAdding new races has been a tradition since D&D began. The first rules had only dwarf, elf, and halfling. At the time they were classes. Only Humans could by wizards, rogues, fighters clerics and the like. Then when AD&D came out dwarfs, elves, and halflings could start taking class levels. 2nd edition added gnomes and half-elves, and finally half-orcs were added in 3rd edition. Adding one or two new core races would not be just for the sake of adding things, it would be for the sake of tradition.
The point you're missing about adding new races over the years is this-
All of the races that have been added in the CORE book have existed in fantasy literature prior to D&D and are ARCHETYPICAL. Meaning they are the most common 'generic' races that are in most fantasy and can therefore be worked into nearly any fantasy setting players want to create.Very specific races force very specific settings on DM's. This is a huge problem with 4th ed. Core books should be fairly setting neutral.
Additional supplements with other races are ok because those are optional.
Wouldn't Smurf be a template?
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Eric. You guys are going to give us an outer-planar sourcebook, right?
Considering Eric's love of all things infernal and abyssal, I would bet money that Pathfinder will have a manual of the planes, and the best cosmology ever made. Call Zeb Cook and Jeff Grub, and make it happen.
Amen. Long as there's a Sigil I am there. And lots of fiends ...oh yesss ...lots of fiends
maybe we should add Smurf as a player race.
Derro eat smurf.
Here is the panda-like race I developed:
Toleeran Racial Traits
+2 Str, +2 Con, -2 Wis
Slow Speed: Toleerans have a base speed of 20 ft.
Medium: Toleeran are Medium creatures and receive no special benefits or penalties due to size.
Low-light Vision: Toleerans can see twice as far as humans in conditions of poor illumination.
Bonus Feat: Toleerans gain Toughness as a bonus feat.
Weapon Specializations: Toleerans treat monk special weapons as martial weapons.
Languages: Toleerans speak Tian and Toleeran
Favored Classes: The favored class of Toleeran is monk or sorcerer. This decision must be made at first level and cannot be changed after word.Note: I decided to name the race after Tolee, a koala who has a panda fixation on one of my daughter's favorite shows Ni Hao, Kai-lan
And a flying race that I adapted for my attempted Heroscape d20 conversion
Kyrie Racial Traits
+2 Dex, +2 Wisdom, -2 Con
Normal Speed: Kyrie have a base move speed of 30 ft and have a base fly speed of 50 ft (poor)
Medium Size: Kyrie are Medium creatures and do not get any special bonuses or penelties for size
Heightened Senses: Kyrie senses are more highly attuned than humans are and they gain a +2 racial bonus on Perception checks.
Languages: Kyrie speak Common and Kyrie
Favored Class: The favored class of the Kyrie is cleric or fighter. The choice must be made at first level and cannot be changed afterwards.
I frickin' LOVE PANDAS! OOMMGG!! Can we, can we, can we pppllleeeaaassseee have a panda monk! Give me a break. I promise we will all go watch the movie and think of david fryer!
Eric. You guys are going to give us an outer-planar sourcebook, right?
Considering Eric's love of all things infernal and abyssal, I would bet money that Pathfinder will have a manual of the planes, and the best cosmology ever made.
Ooh! I hope you're right! It would be awesome!
:D
Peace,
tfad
Yeah Eric! Bring on the horns!
maybe we should add Smurf as a player race.Derro eat smurf.
All your smurf are belong to smurf.
I am sitting looking at my 2nd edition Player's Handbook and I can assure you that there are no half-orcs.Actually 1st edition AKA AD&D had gnomes, half-elves and half-orcs, these were not added in 2nd or 3rd edition.
And I am looking at my 1st edition Player's Handbook and I can assure you there are half-orcs. They were dropped in 2nd edition, yes, but they were there in 1e. The core races in 3.x are identical to the core races in AD&D 1st edition. D&D went thirty years (1978-2008) without adding a single new core race.
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First of all...MINOTAUR!
as for one suggestion that adding stuff just for adding stuff is not the way to go, then what the ehck is the sorcerer?
I vote YES on the Pandamen...if we can also add in the Minotaurs to eat them.
Er, NO on Panda-people.. and this from a guy with 32 PC races in one of his homebrew campaigns (Although I am turning it into HARP instead of PF, so that is rather moot).
The stated mission of the PF alpha/beta/whatever is to provide a CORE book to replace the 3.5 rules. There is no need to add in races , or classes, for that matter (I'm looking at you, Psionics lovers). After we get this ship safely launched, we can all take a breath and see where the great folks at Paizo want to sail (With our suggestions being listened to, I'm sure. They seem very good at that).
-Uriel
And I am looking at my 1st edition Player's Handbook and I can assure you there are half-orcs. They were dropped in 2nd edition, yes, but they were there in 1e. The core races in 3.x are identical to the core races in AD&D 1st edition. D&D went thirty years (1978-2008) without adding a single new core race.
Core plus optional races
BECMI D&D "Races": Dwarf, Elf, Halfling, Human (Cleric, Fighter, Magic User, Thief)*; Gnomes are covered as monsters in M4 Earthshaker
AD&D 1st Ed Races: Dwarf, Elf, Gnome, Half-Elf, Half-Orc, Halfling, Human; 1st Ed Unearthed Arcana added a few subraces
AD&D 2nd Ed Races: Dwarf, Elf, Gnome, Half-Elf, Halfling, Human; several settings (Dark Sun, Planescape, Spelljammer, etc.) had non-standard or additional races; The Complete Book of Humanoids gave rules for playing "monsters;" Player's Option: Skills & Powers added Half-Orc and Half-Ogre, as well as 21 choices from earlier works using a different system
D&D 3.x Races: Dwarf, Elf, Gnome, Half-Elf, Half-Orc, Halfling, Human; Dungeon Master's Guide and Monster Manual had rules for "non-standard" races (Aasimar, Bugbear, etc.); 3.0 Savage Species had rules for "monster classes;" 3.5 Races of Destiny, Races of Stone, and Races of the Wild updated a few 3.0 races and added others (Goliath, Illumian, Raptorian, etc.)
*- The Master Boxed Set added Mystic (Monk) and Thug (Assassin) "classes"
As the editions progressed, there have been several expansions to the optional races, but the "core" has remained fairly stable (until 4e).