IMPORTANT PREDICTIONS
I have become quite weary of the incessant bickering (yeah, I'm to blame, too). So have others. I have learned something -- let's see if anyone else has.
Prediction 1: fans of 3.5 will make many claims about the failures of 4e. Two things will happen:
- The other side will remain unconvinced
- They will provoke and piss off 4e's defenders
Prediction 2: fans of 4e will make many claims about the superiority of 4e. Two things will happen:
- The other side will remain unconvinced
- They will provoke and piss off 4e detractors
Prediction 3: Many people will not take the point of this post, and will continue to needlessly provoke and inflame others. They will be fully to blame for the ensuing name-calling and vitriol.
Nobody has been right in these debates. Holding incorrect beliefs is permissible and forgivable. Treating one another's deeply-held convictions with such contempt is not.
What point is there in being right if you are a jack-ass?
I took a break a little while back to avoid a lot of the needless arguing and constant repeating of popular misconceptions and/or rumors. Now that the books are basically out I was hoping that things would calm down. I still hope that can happen. The needless arguing when those who don't like 4E have the perfectly excellent Pathfinder to play boggles me sometimes. We have two very good game systems. Can't we just play them and talk about them without pausing every now and then to kick someone on the other side in the balls?
AZRogue:
It hasn't escaped my notice that several well-known posters have avoided these 4e debate threads like the plague.
I envy you -- if only I had such good sense :/
We're American. Ball kicking is what we do!
Edit: Only absurdist (is that a word?) humor allows me to really stick around here. Otherwise, I'd have been driven off long ago as well. Even as is, I've been feeling a push to move to greener pastures more often than not lately ...
I think if you get a topic such as a major change to a game people have been playing in various forms for over 20 years and add worldwide assess and anonymity (such as an online forum), things are going to get heated no matter what. Names will be exchanged. Doesn't make it right, but it's going to happen.
One can only just jump over such posts and try to concentrate on more peaceful conversations of the merits and problems of 4e. I'm not going to stop discussion of a topic I'm interested in because some jackass in Springfield, Nowhere feels validated by telling me I'm stupid for holding an opinion.
I hear you Logos. I've long since felt that Paizo really needs two 4E forums, one for 4E discussions and one for discussion about 4E. Sadly, since that seems rather unlikely to happen, we just have to hope this place eventually shakes out as a place for 4E discussions, and that those more interested in simply discussing about 4E eventually wander off to a board about a game they actually like.
Sigh. :(
I tried to spread a little good feeling about when the news of the sold-out first print run came out. That's about all the interest I have in 4e currently. (besides having to look at these forums like a highway car accident ... I don't know why I look but I just GOTTA). I will add one important prediction to Tatterdemalion's:
A lot of this posting vitriol will fade as the 4e release date activates and people get on with things.
I think that as the release date looms it is kicking 4e into a lot of people's conciousness. I know when I peruse the main page and see a lurid post thread I almost HAVE to look (see above). Once the hoopla dies down and people see that the world hasn't ended, things will calm again. There is room in the D&D cosmology for another edition, and there will always be people to play with if you look hard enough.
I personally am truly grateful that we have Paizo developing a backwards-compatible playing system on the OGL. Thus we folks who wish have a home, and can (hopefully) let the others who want to play 4e off to explore their brave new world. Let's keep things in perspective and try to be decent to one another.
I've long since felt that Paizo really needs two 4E forums, one for 4E discussions and one for discussion about 4E.
I think the solution is to create threads that focus on the game itself (such as the Rules Questions thread or my own Designing Monsters thread) and avoid threads that are more likely to inspire debate (such as the Why do you think RP has no place in 4th Ed? or my own First Gut Reactions :( thread). Personally, I do like to hear people's differing opinions about 4e, but it unfortunately hasn't always been a happy place.
I predict I will lose the debate.
Don't be so down on yourself. You have valid points from time to time...
I.
LOVE.
YOU.
Ah, how sweet.
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We're American. Ball kicking is what we do!
Edit: Only absurdist (is that a word?) humor allows me to really stick around here. Otherwise, I'd have been driven off long ago as well. Even as is, I've been feeling a push to move to greener pastures more often than not lately ...
Stay and frolic.
And adsurdist is word most commonly applied to the plays of Beckett, Pinter, and Pirandello.
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I am of the "why can't we all just get along" school of thought.Because you're wrong.
(See. I'm totally going to win this debate.)
Holly crap - I nearly snorted milk out my nose - and I am not even drinking any.
Sebastian - if you ever find yourself in or near Philly you will have a place of honor at my game table.
I am of the "why can't we all just get along" school of thought.Because you're wrong.
(See. I'm totally going to win this debate.)
Sir, you are a master debat...no, I'm not going to say it.
I am of the "why can't we all just get along" school of thought.
Because you're wrong. (See. I'm totally going to win this debate.)
I am so awed by you :o
I am of the "why can't we all just get along" school of thought.Because you're wrong.
(See. I'm totally going to win this debate.)
(edited)
Smurf! :D|
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I am of the "why can't we all just get along" school of thought.Because you're wrong.
(See. I'm totally going to win this debate.)
I think the sentiment is great, but the chance of geeks actually respecting each other's respective opinions is pretty slim. Still, it is fun to watch.
And as verbal driveby shootings go, 9.5 from the Irish judge.
Good post!
I have been guilty more than once of lobbing the proverbial grenade into the room with a (now let me borrow my new favorite phrase) "laconic quip". I'm going to *try* to watch my Ps and Qs for now on.
Best of luck to everyone, and keep playing D&D. Keep the hobby alive!
The biggest problem I have is that there's too much good stuff out there and not enough time to use it all.
QFT!
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Sebastian - if you ever find yourself in or near Philly you will have a place of honor at my game table.You're in Philly as well? Just curious, but where are you spending D&D Game Day? I'll be at Showcase Comics in Bryn Mawr.
I would say but Razz may send a kobold out to give me a wedgie. Actually I'm GMing at the Compleat Strategist that day.
We are running an event on Friday night as well if you want to pop by.
The biggest problem I have is that there's too much good stuff out there and not enough time to use it all.
No doubt.
C'mon, can't *someone* come up with a way to cast "time stop" in real life?
What point is there in being right if you are a jack-ass?
It feels better than being wrong and still being a jack-ass.
Yeah, its called college.
LMAO
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Sebastian - if you ever find yourself in or near Philly you will have a place of honor at my game table.You're in Philly as well? Just curious, but where are you spending D&D Game Day? I'll be at Showcase Comics in Bryn Mawr.
I would say but Razz may send a kobold out to give me a wedgie. Actually I'm GMing at the Compleat Strategist that day.
We are running an event on Friday night as well if you want to pop by.
Thanks for the invite, but I'll probably have to skip. I'm still recuperating from the Tom Petty Concert last night - Didn't get to be until 1:00 am, and got up at 5:30 to come to work. Speaking of which....