Abandoning the fans?


4th Edition

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niel wrote:
When I was still playing Warhammer Fantasy, I prefered roleplaying the troop to the general. But then, I played Skaven- so roleplay pretty much consisted of saying "Runaway- Quick-Quick" and dying theatricaly after having something explode.

Hehe.


magnuskn wrote:
... kewl powerz ...
Kruelaid wrote:


Why is it that everyone who likes 4E gets stereotyped as a punk who uses L337 speak?
Forgottenprince wrote:


Probably the same reason everyone who doesn't is labeled an aging grognard or an irrational hater.

For the record I'm 25 and sitting for the bar exam.

I'm not seeing the grognard accusations these days. A lot of L337 jabber, though.

Just an observation.


The original concept was shot down by the fans.
The original concept had 6 planes total, no Gnomes at all, abandoned all other campaigns, nobody ever died, and shut out all freelancers.

The current version being sold is a compromise.
It's almost, sort of, winning me over.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Kruelaid wrote:

This isn't about being touchy.

Nobody writes "kewl powerz" when they're talking about PFRPG.

Why?

Because the point of using the L337 vocab is to disparage the game as a table top video game.

Noted. I´ll only use it now when I want to disparage 4E gamers. Meaning probably not ever again.

Now, if someone comes and tells me that killing off the Chosen and Mystra was a totally *rad* idea...


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Goth Guru wrote:

The original concept was shot down by the fans.

The original concept had 6 planes total, no Gnomes at all, abandoned all other campaigns, nobody ever died, and shut out all freelancers.

Can you elaborate on that a bit, or link to something more extensive?


magnuskn wrote:
Goth Guru wrote:

The original concept was shot down by the fans.

The original concept had 6 planes total, no Gnomes at all, abandoned all other campaigns, nobody ever died, and shut out all freelancers.
Can you elaborate on that a bit, or link to something more extensive?

I do not believe Races And Classes or Worlds and Monsters are available online.

Even some of the older topics here indicate changing gears.
See...
OGL Writers cannot publish for WotC
I was right about the future of Forgotten Realms products

I haven't been able to find the source of the quote,
"Finish your 3.5 campaigns, then create new 4.0 characters because you cannot convert anything."

I wasn't able to find it in the preview books and I think any press release was deleated by the source.

Liberty's Edge

Kruelaid wrote:

I'm not seeing the grognard accusations these days. A lot of L337 jabber, though.

Just an observation.

I wish I could find the thread where some posters engaged in a small colloberation to come up with a "L337" speak version of "grognard." And to be fair, you also don't get called a "sheep," "sheeple," or any other derivative anymore do you?

As for the "irrational hater" part, well I'm seeing a lot of that as well as a "vocal minority" who's post on line "shouldn't count for much."

Neither side is exactly made up of only saints here, and its getting really annoying to see the shots coming from any and all sides.

Liberty's Edge

David Marks wrote:

Ah I see the problem here. You must have reversed your age on your pro/anti 4E application form. You've been filed in the over 30 section, but really you belong with us 4E players over here by the kiddie pool!

Cheers! :P

PS: Don't be too sad. We get cake AND ice cream!

Don't you just LOVE stereotyping...

As for my age, I think I'm the same age or even a year or two younger than our mutual acquatence. I wouldn't want to tell her she was filed as 52 now would you?


<==== IS a grognard who will keep playing 3.5 - also likes 4E and plans on building up a campaign that goes well with the rules. Also uses hero system. Likes GURPS, too, but hasn't played lately.

Liberty's Edge

<==== IS a 25 year old who will keep playing 3.5 - first started D&D by DMing for a younger brother with ages 12 and 7 respectively and has access to the original white box.

I never said anything bad about playing multiple systems...

Out of curiosity, how much game time do you get over there in China?


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Goth Guru wrote:

I do not believe Races And Classes or Worlds and Monsters are available online.

Even some of the older topics here indicate changing gears.
See...
OGL Writers cannot publish for WotC
I was right about the future of Forgotten Realms products

I haven't been able to find the source of the quote,
"Finish your 3.5 campaigns, then create new 4.0 characters because you cannot convert anything."

I wasn't able to find it in the preview books and I think any press release was deleated by the source.

Ah, too bad. I would have liked to see how the designers arrived at the current edition. Imagining that early versions were even *more* basic is not conducive to my peace of mind, though...


4 hours a week RL.

Every day in PBPs. Playing in 4, running 2.

Gamer for 30 years.


Krauser_Levyl:
As far as I understand the D20 Trademark License which accompanied 3.5, and the OGL were two different licenses. Here is a post from *this thread* on the topic:

Prime Evil wrote:
Bibliophile wrote wrote:
I want to say that I've read a comment from someone at Paizo (Erik?) saying that they were looking a way to do exactly this, provide a way for people to list thier products as PRPG compatible, but as I can't remember where I read that take it with a grain of salt.

This is encouraging news. I'd love to see companies like Green Ronin release stuff that is compatible with Pathfinder. I'd also love to see some interesting fan content emerge.

Bibliophile wrote:
I read the sentence above from the OGL as saying that you simply can't have a trademark or registered trademark on a product with open content (which is not a trademark though folks have made their own OGL logos) without an agreement. Presumably the D20 license itself would be an example of a trademark agreement that qualifies since its compatible.

Yep...this is why the OGL and trademark license that allows you to place the d20 logo on your products are separate. WoTC have indicated that the d20 license will end in June - which ends the ability of publishers to market products as d20 compatible - but they can't revoke the license that allows you to use OGL content from the v3.5 System Reference Document.

Similarly, you can use OGL from the Pathfinder RPG without a license, but you can't actually say that your product is designed to be used with Pathfinder without a separate license from Paizo.

I am no lawyer; the possibility exists that I have misunderstood the situation. This is however about the clearest reference I can find on the Paizo boards at present to there having been different licensing circumstances between the OGL and the D20 Trademark License for 3.5.

Liberty's Edge

Kruelaid wrote:

4 hours a week RL.

Every day in PBPs. Playing in 4, running 2.

Gamer for 30 years.

IIRC you're teaching English there, do you game in English or local language?

And I apologize if it came across like I was questioning your gaming experience, I was just wondering if language served as a barrier to the hobby.


Forgottenprince wrote:


Don't you just LOVE stereotyping...

As for my age, I think I'm the same age or even a year or two younger than our mutual acquatence. I wouldn't want to tell her she was filed as 52 now would you?

So serious Prince! Don't let your lawyer training stiffen your humor too much! :)

As for my wife, I tell her she's old all the time. Although I suppose that might explain the regular beatings I receive from her in response ...

Cheers! :)

PS: And I thought everyone loved cake? It's not even a lie!

Dark Archive Bella Sara Charter Superscriber

Forgottenprince wrote:


For the record I'm 25 and sitting for the bar exam.

If sitting for the bar is not grounds for being labeled an irrational hater, I don't know what is.

Liberty's Edge

David Marks wrote:
So serious Prince! Don't let your lawyer training stiffen your humor too much! :)

Trust me, you don't want to know (and may not get) what lawyers find funny... Here's a tip, if you want to make a lawyer groan say "Pennoyer v Neff."

David Marks wrote:
As for my wife, I tell her she's old all the time. Although I suppose that might explain the regular beatings I receive from her in response ...

So she hasn't changed a bit! ;-)

Liberty's Edge

Sebastian wrote:
Forgottenprince wrote:


For the record I'm 25 and sitting for the bar exam.
If sitting for the bar is not grounds for being labeled an irrational hater, I don't know what is.

Maybe for you common law chuckleheads...

J/K

As for the irrational part, at least some of the professors found me to be logical...


Sebastian wrote:
Forgottenprince wrote:


For the record I'm 25 and sitting for the bar exam.
If sitting for the bar is not grounds for being labeled an irrational hater, I don't know what is.

Speaking of irrationality, what does sitting for the bar entail? Is it analogous to a Master's Degree? Or is it something more like a Medical Degree? I've often thought of going to Law School but I must admit I know very little of how that works.

Cheers! :)

Liberty's Edge

David Marks wrote:
Sebastian wrote:
Forgottenprince wrote:


For the record I'm 25 and sitting for the bar exam.
If sitting for the bar is not grounds for being labeled an irrational hater, I don't know what is.

Speaking of irrationality, what does sitting for the bar entail? Is it analogous to a Master's Degree? Or is it something more like a Medical Degree? I've often thought of going to Law School but I must admit I know very little of how that works.

Cheers! :)

You need a law degree from an ABA approved law school to sit for the bar.

I just got a Juris Docterate and a Bachelor of Civil Law.

An adavanced law degree is called an LLM.

EDIT: Its also a three year program


Forgottenprince wrote:


You need a law degree from an ABA approved law school to sit for the bar.

I just got a Juris Docterate and a Bachelor of Civil Law.

An adavanced law degree is called an LLM.

EDIT: Its also a three year program

Hmm interesting. So, you need a degree roughly halfway between a MS and a PhD and the Bar is analogous to an Engineer's Certification Exam? Is it something that must be updated/reapplied every so many years?

Cheers! :)

Liberty's Edge

David Marks wrote:

Hmm interesting. So, you need a degree roughly halfway between a MS and a PhD and the Bar is analogous to an Engineer's Certification Exam? Is it something that must be updated/reapplied every so many years?

Cheers! :)

Sort of. The degree is yours after you graduate The Bar allows you to practice in a given jurisdiction. You need to attend Continuing Legal Education (CLE's) every year to keep in good standing after passing a bar, but you have the degree forever.

Dark Archive Bella Sara Charter Superscriber

Forgottenprince wrote:

Trust me, you don't want to know (and may not get) what lawyers find funny... Here's a tip, if you want to make a lawyer groan say "Pennoyer v Neff."

I'll see your Pennoyer v. Neff and raise you an International Shoe.


Hmm, thanks for the schooling on how that works. I'll quit hijacking this thread now, my curiosity satiated.

The wife says hi, by the way.

Cheers! :)

Dark Archive Bella Sara Charter Superscriber

David Marks wrote:

Hmm interesting. So, you need a degree roughly halfway between a MS and a PhD and the Bar is analogous to an Engineer's Certification Exam? Is it something that must be updated/reapplied every so many years?

Cheers! :)

Hey now, technically it is a doctorate degree! But yeah, it's a three year program, you take the bar after your done, sell your soul, and bam, begin practicing.

Dr. Sebastian

Liberty's Edge

Sebastian wrote:
Forgottenprince wrote:

Trust me, you don't want to know (and may not get) what lawyers find funny... Here's a tip, if you want to make a lawyer groan say "Pennoyer v Neff."

I'll see your Pennoyer v. Neff and raise you an International Shoe.

I'll see your International Shoe and raise you Asahi plus Grey since we're talking Civ Pro.

Liberty's Edge

David Marks wrote:

Hmm, thanks for the schooling on how that works. I'll quit hijacking this thread now, my curiosity satiated.

The wife says hi, by the way.

Cheers! :)

Hi back!

So do you think the thread's killed yet?

Dark Archive Bella Sara Charter Superscriber

Forgottenprince wrote:
Sebastian wrote:
Forgottenprince wrote:

Trust me, you don't want to know (and may not get) what lawyers find funny... Here's a tip, if you want to make a lawyer groan say "Pennoyer v Neff."

I'll see your Pennoyer v. Neff and raise you an International Shoe.
I'll see your International Shoe and raise you Asahi plus Grey since we're talking Civ Pro.

You're a sick bastard. I've got no choice but to file a 12b-6 motion and head out for some Burger King in my favorite state, North Virginia (which, in case you didn't know, borders Tentucky, Sylvania, and Atantic). The Burger King is located on the border of the four states, but I live in Sylvania and heard of them through their radio broadcasts in Sylvania. I plan to leave the state immediately after eating my Whopper, own no property there, and do not ever intend to return. Oddly, there are no Burger Kings in Sylvania.

Edit: The mudflaps on my truck are too short under North Virginia law, but too long under the laws of Tentucky, and unfortunately, I have to cross through Tentucky on my way to North Virginia.

Edit2: Ack. You can tell how much I do Securities work rather than Civ Pro - I wrote the rule as if it were under the 34 Act.


Sebastian wrote:


You're a sick bastard. I've got no choice but to file a 12b-6 motion and head out for some Burger King in my favorite state, North Virginia (which, in case you didn't know, borders Tentucky, Sylvania, and Atantic).

I'm definitely taking notes to bust on my lawyer buddy Mike Thursday when we get together to game. I wonder if I can make that lawful evil SOB crack a smile.

Cheers! :)

Liberty's Edge

Sebastian wrote:
You're a sick bastard. I've got no choice but to file a 12b-6 motion and head out for some Burger King in my favorite state, North Virginia (which, in case you didn't know, borders Tentucky, Sylvania, and Atantic). The Burger King is located on the border of the four states, but I live in Sylvania and heard of them through their radio broadcasts in Sylvania. I plan to leave the state immediately after eating my Whopper, own no property there, and do not ever intend to return. Oddly, there are no Burger Kings in Sylvania.

Congrats, you had two recent law graduates rolling on the floor, laughing.

Just make sure you don't sign a contract with a Florida company during your travels!

Liberty's Edge

David Marks wrote:

I'm definitely taking notes to bust on my lawyer buddy Mike Thursday when we get together to game. I wonder if I can make that lawful evil SOB crack a smile.

Cheers! :)

Ask him if he's ever bought a Volkswagon from Seaway.


This is the greatest 4th edition thread ever. At ENWorld they just bash 3.5 - here we digress into laywers' inside jokes that nobody else understands.

To this English major, it's all greek.

Liberty's Edge

countbuggula wrote:

This is the greatest 4th edition thread ever. At ENWorld they just bash 3.5 - here we digress into laywers' inside jokes that nobody else understands.

To this English major, it's all greek.

Isn't that a little off considering the speaker was supposed to be speaking Latin.

But Shakespeare's always been a little funny...

Dark Archive

crosswiredmind wrote:

I have heard from a more than a few people here that Wizards has abandoned their fans with 4e.

How is that even vaguely possible given the dramatic pace of sales - outstripping even WotC's predictions.

The implication that 4e does not appeal to existing players is not born out by the sales figures an the general enthusiasm on many online fora (Paizo being a clear exception). Heck - my FLGS has a long preorder list even though they are not discounting the books.

This remids me of the Dilbert cartoon where the pointy haired boss goes to see Ming the web designer to tell her that everyone hates the website. She asks if he talked to the monks in Tibet. He says no - well he does not like it. Ming replies - so you confused one person for everyone on the planet.

Just because a number of individuals here on these boards believes that WotC has abandoned its fanbase does not mean that they have. Sales of 4e are set to surpass 3e and the game has not even been released.

You know...I always see people refering to "Sales Figures" but nobody ever posts links to the actual information or figures.

Where are you getting the "Dramatic pace of sales - outstripping even WotC's predictions." sales figures anyways?

The Exchange

countbuggula wrote:
Good thing we're all entitled to our own opinion, and now have different products we can purchase to cater to our own tastes! Because to me, I read the 4th edition rules and think they read like miniature rules. I'm not saying you're wrong, we just each perceive it differently.

If the 4e rules read like a miniatures wargame then why is 3e any different?

countbuggula wrote:
Personally, I liked the way 3rd edition forced groups to rely on teamwork more.

That has not been my experience. In 3e a group could simply take turns a each PC could wreak their own personal havoc - except the cleric that needed to keep healing everyone. 4e requires that the players truly coordinate their individual efforts because each PC has abilities and powers that augment others. My experience running 4e is that players need to pay attention to the combat when other players are taking their turns. In 3e a player could leave the table between turns and the combat would just roll on. Communication during combat seems to be much more important in 4e than it ever was in 3e.

countbuggula wrote:
In my eyes, excessive self healing (second wind, etc) and a huge negative HP pool diminishes the role and importance of a cleric in the group.

You really should play the game before you make that call. Each PC gets 1 second wind per encounter. That is not excessive. I have driven so many PCs into negative territory even with a cleric present. In fact it was the presence of the cleric that kept each and everyone of them from ending up KIA.

countbuggula wrote:
Granted spellcasters were very powerful offensively in 3.x, but they were weak enough defensively that they relied on heavily armored friends to protect them, and had limited use before they ran out of spells. The heavies in turn could do slightly less dmg (though still impressive) but had the advantage of lasting indefinitely. Each class had its own unique and individual flavor, and there was a large emphasis on group tactics and working together (and playing smart).

Ok. For a second there I could have sworn you were talking about 4e.

countbuggula wrote:
4th edition, in comparison, dumbs classes down to identical templates using different powers. A fighter now casts spells that are called combat feats and use a martial power source instead of divine or arcane. Flat BAB and Saving throws across the board destroys individuality. In an effort to balance and simplify they've destroyed the uniqueness that made different classes excel at what they did - now everyone's exactly as mediocre as everyone else. Yay.

So you clearly have no idea how 4e works at all.

I suggest that actually play the game or at least read the rules and build a couple of characters.

This last paragraph of your post is so very wrong on so very many levels.

The Exchange

BigDaddyG wrote:

You know...I always see people refering to "Sales Figures" but nobody ever posts links to the actual information or figures.

Where are you getting the "Dramatic pace of sales - outstripping even WotC's predictions." sales figures anyways?

I run a business. I have to estimate production runs. If I underestimate then I need to get the factory cranking because i missed the mark and need to keep up the supply to meet the demand.

We know that WotC has had to go back and order another print run of the core books because they have sold out. If they had projected the demand accurately then this would not have happened. they would have been able to manage the supply line to pace demand.

Clearly they were caught off-guard by the pace of sales.

Why else would they risk a possible disruption in supply? They wouldn't.

The Exchange

magnuskn wrote:
The Forgotten Realms disaster is just the latest in the string of bad things to happen to another favorite setting of mine. Which doesn´t make it easier to swallow at all.

Ok, now I get it. Yes, if I were an FR fan I would most likely be as upset as you are. A friend of mine plans to play 3.5 as the Forgotten Realms RPG and 4e for everything else.

Thank for sharing that realization. It helps me to understand where you are coming from.

The Exchange

Sebastian wrote:

But yeah, it's a three year program, you take the bar after your done, sell your soul, and bam, begin practicing.

Dr. Sebastian

When do you get the number of the beast branded on your wrist and the government tracking chip installed?


crosswiredmind wrote:

So you clearly have no idea how 4e works at all.

I suggest that actually play the game or at least read the rules and build a couple of characters.

This last paragraph of your post is so very wrong on so very many levels.

I have an idea. Instead of just telling me how wrong I am over and over why don't you point out the things that I said that weren't true and tell me why I'm wrong. Name calling really doesn't get anything done but get people pissed off.

Am I wrong that:
All classes have identical BAB progression?
All classes have identical save progression?
All classes have "powers" that are the functional equivalent to 3rd and earlier edition spells, but have them broken into at will/ per encounter/ per day?

The Exchange Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 6

crosswiredmind wrote:
Why else would they risk a possible disruption in supply? They wouldn't.

For the marketing value of being able to say "we sold out the first run already!". I wouldn't be shocked if capacity had already been reserved at their printer(s) of choice for a likely second run.

The Exchange

countbuggula wrote:
I have an idea. Instead of just telling me how wrong I am over and over why don't you point out the things that I said that weren't true and tell me why I'm wrong. Name calling really doesn't get anything done but get people pissed off.

I did not call you any names. I simply pointed out that you are wrong.

countbuggula wrote:

Am I wrong that:

All classes have identical BAB progression?

That is correct but there are also class features, feats, and subtle differences that will give some classes a higher "to hit" than others.

countbuggula wrote:
All classes have identical save progression?

I assume you meant defenses and not saves. If so then yes - the progression is the same but each class has a starting bonus to specific defenses and so you will find that characters from different classes will have differentiated defenses.

countbuggula wrote:
All classes have "powers" that are the functional equivalent to 3rd and earlier edition spells, but have them broken into at will/ per encounter/ per day?

All classes have powers. Some function like feats - those tend to be the ones for the defenders. Some powers are spells or very spell like - they seem to be limited to those classes that were already spellcasters in 3e. The powers may function in a similar manner as far as how many can be used at-will, per encounter, or daily but that is where the similarity ends. Each class has powers that you would expect from that class.

Each class functions in a very different way. If you play a warlock as if he was a fighter you will soon have a dead warlock. A fighter cannot sit back and fling spells. A wizard can not maneuver into a flank and deal a big hit because he is a sneaky bastard.

It seems you have gathered your information on 4e from the disinformation engine run by the disgruntled 4e haters. I suggest you head out to the nearest FLGS this weekend and actually play the game. I think you will find it to be very different then some here would like you to believe.

You may not like it but at least you should judge it for what it is and not what the haters say they think it is.

The Exchange

Russ Taylor wrote:
crosswiredmind wrote:
Why else would they risk a possible disruption in supply? They wouldn't.

For the marketing value of being able to say "we sold out the first run already!". I wouldn't be shocked if capacity had already been reserved at their printer(s) of choice for a likely second run.

If that was the case there would be more than a tiny article about it. I doubt this was planned.

Silver Crusade

Forgottenprince wrote:
Sebastian wrote:
Forgottenprince wrote:

Trust me, you don't want to know (and may not get) what lawyers find funny... Here's a tip, if you want to make a lawyer groan say "Pennoyer v Neff."

I'll see your Pennoyer v. Neff and raise you an International Shoe.
I'll see your International Shoe and raise you Asahi plus Grey since we're talking Civ Pro.

Oh yeah? Well I'll raise you an Erie Railroad Comapany. If that doesn't do it, then how about a change over to the Rule Against Perpetuities?


crosswiredmind wrote:


It seems you have gathered your information on 4e from the disinformation engine run by the disgruntled 4e haters. I suggest you head out to the nearest FLGS this weekend and actually play the game. I think you will find it to be very different...

I've gathered my opinions from my own reading of the rules, thank you. I came up with these conclusions on my own, decided that 4e wasn't for me, and then was surprised to see everyone that I saw online praising how awesome it was. I thought I was screwed because I was the only one who felt this way - it wasn't until I was complaining to the local gaming store employees about it that they suggested I check out Pathfinder. These forums are the only place I've seen anywhere on the internet where people aren't universally praising 4th edition and blasting 3rd edition and the people who actually thought it was any good.

So no, there's not going to be any moment where I read more of the rules or play a game of 4th edition and all of a sudden "see the light" and repent of all the errors of my ways and denounce the horribleness that is 3.5 and embrace the one and true D&D that is 4th edition.

You're right. 4th edition is very different. It's not D&D.


While I dont think people are dumb for playing 3rd Edition, having played it myself for eight years, I'm sorry to say that 4th Edition is D&D. Its right there on the cover.

The Exchange Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 6

crosswiredmind wrote:
If that was the case there would be more than a tiny article about it. I doubt this was planned.

Whereas I'm quite sure it was planned. The whole "we already had to reprint" announcement reeks of a PR move. I'm more willing to believe "clever" than "incompetent" in this case.


except you know it has a D and a D on the cover, is sold by the people who own the rights to dnd, is called dnd by the people who play it, and most importantly is a tactical wargame with roleplaying elements that's about killing stuff and taking their items.

IF that's not dnd, I would say your definition is wrong.

What crosswired mind is saying perhaps a bit untactfully (but i wouldn't call it rude) is that THERE IS DIFFERENTIATION BETWEEN THE CLASSES AND ALL POWERS AREN"T SPELLS. The rogue gets +2 to the reflex save that other's don't, fighters and paladin's get innate access to heavier armours that other don't or have to spend feats on, the powers themselves are worlds different (big difference between i cast a sleep spell at you, and i push you over with my relentless advance ie sleep vs tide of iron).

If I was going to criticise 4th edition for anything, I think it would be over diffentiating between the classes, Theirs enough feats and powers for two or three builds of every particular class and because of space limitations and the fact that the differences between the classes/roles makes large sections of things (feats, skills, powers) innappropiate for builds leads to some very limited choices in places.( Something that I think any fresh system suffers from)

But you keep going on about how OMG EVERYONE GOT THE SAME BA AND SAVES AND ACTUALLY SAVES NOT THE SILLY ARMOUR VALUES etc, etc that you quite blatently ignoring all the differences that gets the responce from people. You don't like it and your unbiased read ain't so unbiased that's great, the pathfinder and 3rd edition boards are the one's above this one, kthx bby

Lgos

Dark Archive Bella Sara Charter Superscriber

Russ Taylor wrote:


Whereas I'm quite sure it was planned. The whole "we already had to reprint" announcement reeks of a PR move. I'm more willing to believe "clever" than "incompetent" in this case.

So they underordered on the hopes that it would be a slow news day and the fact that they sold through the print run would make the news? Why not just buy an ad? It's probably cheaper than not having sufficient product to meet demand and potentially losing sales.


Antioch wrote:
While I dont think people are dumb for playing 3rd Edition, having played it myself for eight years, I'm sorry to say that 4th Edition is D&D. Its right there on the cover.

C'mon, do you believe everything you read? :)

The Exchange Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 6

Sebastian wrote:


So they underordered on the hopes that it would be a slow news day and the fact that they sold through the print run would make the news? Why not just buy an ad? It's probably cheaper than not having sufficient product to meet demand and potentially losing sales.

*rolls eyes* because then they can't say they sold every copy before release day. Since this is a distribution-level "shortage", I'll be surprised if anyone has trouble getting a PH for months to come.

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