Over on the Wizards board, voicing any opinion that isn't fawning over the new edition will get you swarmed by little insects buzzing about how great 4TH edition is. They will try to refute every argument you raise no matter how logical or well thought out. I have the gift set pre-ordered, and i will have a shot at the new rules. But i am not going to act like you are bad mouthing my girlfriend if you happen to dislike the new system...
And i don't care how you slice it the new so called multi-class rules are crap. I will continue to stockpile my 3.5/3rd edition stuff though. It can be had for cheap!
<things>
How does 4th Edition impede character development?
You do not choose powers "every level". You get them every other level, picking feats between those. Unlike 3rd Edition, there are no "dead" levels now.
I'm curious as to which wizard class you were reading, because a casual glance over the spell selection for the wizard not only indicates that I dont have to use a staff, but that I dont ever have to choose any fire-spells.
As for the differences between wizards, the difference is just as much as 3rd Edition (you know, your SPELLS) with the exception that wizards in 4E also get various implements, a customization feature that 3E lacks.
Compare this to many 3E classes that DO get the EXACT same things at the same level, such as the monk and barbarian (though the monk does get to pick a couple bonus feats).
Your main gripe appears to be the power format. They dont "feel" like spells, for some odd reason. Is it the way the blocks look? The way they are presented? I'm not sure how they could write them up to be suitable, to you.
In 3rd Edition if a player wanted to hit a bad guy with an acid arrow, they would roll to attack, as a fighter might with a ranged attack. They would provoke an opportunity attack, as a fighter would. If it hit, they would roll damage...as a fighter would. The difference is that I have to account for things that wouldnt even come up, such as arcane spell failure.
Even spells that didnt require an attack roll before work in the same way, its just who does the rolling gets reversed: fireball allowed a Reflex save in 3E. Now, the wizard makes an attack against their Reflex Defense.
The look of the action is laid out differently, but it works the same: wizard casts a spell, dice are rolled to see how effective the attack is, dice or rolled for damage. Its still fire, still an AoE attack, still a spell.
"Ahhh! My arm was choped off and the ghost drained ten years away from me; I'd better sleep for 6 hours and get better."
I couldnt find the rules on regrowing lost limbs by taking a nap or ghosts that age you rapidly. Could you tell me where they are?
Meteor Swarm Wizard Attack 29
Daily ✦ Arcane, Fire, Implement
Standard Action Area burst 5 within 20 squares
Target: Each creature in burst
Attack: Intelligence vs. Reflex
Hit: 8d6 + Intelligence modifier fire damage.This is a hell of a spell.. by 29th level you can cast Meteor Swarm once a day and deal 8d6 damage if you hit the target..... :p
Looking at things in a vacuum works wonders in an argument, so long as no one else bothers to check the bigger picture (or are so willing to believe you that they just plain wont).
Compared to 3rd Edition mechanics, it does less damage (though to be fair, meteor swarm did the same unless you hit the same guy in all four blasts). Some things to consider are that in 3E, many creatures at high levels will have energy resistances (or immunities), and that resistance applies against each individual blast, so that if a creature has fire resistance 10, it gets to shave off 40 points of damage.
If you can be bothered to delve back into the horrid book that is the 4E PH, feel free to check out the spellstorm paragon path. If you read it (do not look directly into the dark writing), you will see that by spending an action point you can add bonus damage to a standard attack equal to half your level (+14 to +15 damage).
Spellstorm mages can also make a Wisdom check to recall a spent spell. The DC for a daily spell is 21. Seems high? Well, lets hit up the archmage epic destiny really quick-like.
Archmages get three really nifty abilities: one lets you recall any one arcane power automatically (26th-level utility), one lets you change a daily spell into an encounter one, and one lets you cast a daily spell twice per day.
This would allow a wizard to get access to three meteor swarm spells per encounter. Every other encounter, this wizard can add a flat +15 points of damage to one of them (since she regains her action point every two encounters), meaning that she can use an action point to cast meteor swarm, activate Shape Magic as her other standard action, then move away to setup ANOTHER meteor swarm in the same battle.
Tell me, how many meteor swarms can your wizard cast per day?
Edit: The three per encounter only applies to the first one in a given day, the wizard must otherwise take Arcane Mastery to regain a daily spell, or Epic Resurgence to auto-recover an encounter power on a crit.
I also didnt mention the usage of implements, such as a +6 wand (which grants a +6 to attack and damage rolls, as well as +6d6 damage on a critical strike).
Finally, the last two bits I found were the Heroic feats Astral Fire (+3 to attack and damage with radiant or fire attacks at 21st-level and up) and Hellfire Blood, which is only for tielflings, but grants another +1 to attack and damage rolls with fire or fear attacks.
Total per encounter is 8d6+24 with the first one, 8d6+9 for the rest of them, not counting your Intelligence bonus (which applies to damage rolls). If you are a tiefling, then the damage is likely 2 points higher since tieflings can take Hellfire Blood AND also get an Int bonus.
Also, on a critical hit, dont forget to max out your damage and add 6d6 damage (average of +21 damage).
Fighter: "So I have two at will powers per day."
Wizard: "Wow, man, me too! And two more I can use per encounter."
Fighter: "Okay this is scary... me too."
Wizard: "Ok, ok. DOn't tell me you have just one daily power?"
Fighter: "Oh MY GOD!...."
And so on...
OK, loaded question for those with the rules in hand.
Do the rule books anywhere encourage or enable alternate settings or play styles? As an example, the 3.5 rules threw in (very limited) rules for oriental weapons, firearms, and futuristic weapons. Is there anything comparable in 4e?
resounding no
EDIT: but then I haven't read the DMG yet.
resounding no
An unsurprising first response. I'm not holding my breath hoping for someone who disagrees :/
THere's no reason a good DM can't modify it. But it is not "enabled" or "encouraged" in any way.
It's a really solid basic system. I can see why they wouldn't wander into the territory of individualizing campaigns.
There are a few pages on 'Fantasy Sub-genres' in the DMG but it's just a paragraph or two on each.... for example there are about 300 words of generalization on Wuxia campaigns.
It's well written, and the list of sub-genres seems pretty complete.
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Fighter: "So I have two at will powers per day."
Wizard: "Wow, man, me too! And two more I can use per encounter."
Fighter: "Okay this is scary... me too."
Wizard: "Ok, ok. DOn't tell me you have just one daily power?"
Fighter: "Oh MY GOD!...."
And so on...
Yes but many of the spells from 3e are now rituals in 4e so the Wizard will have many more tricks up her sleeve. In addition the Wizard can swap out the spells she can use in a day while the fighter cannot swap out exploits.
"Ahhh! My arm was choped off and the ghost drained ten years away from me; I'd better sleep for 6 hours and get better."I couldnt find the rules on regrowing lost limbs by taking a nap or ghosts that age you rapidly. Could you tell me where they are?(edited)
I suspect that Molech was exaggerating for dramatic effect about the 4E healing surge mechanics & hit-points which it seems clear to me that he does not like.
Oh, I know. I just dont know why he felt that he had to deliberately mislead how one of the mechanics work to prove some kind of point.
Fighter: "So I have two at will powers per day."
Wizard: "Wow, man, me too! And two more I can use per encounter."
Fighter: "Okay this is scary... me too."
Wizard: "Ok, ok. DOn't tell me you have just one daily power?"
Fighter: "Oh MY GOD!...."
And so on...
Yes but many of the spells from 3e are now rituals in 4e so the Wizard will have many more tricks up her sleeve. In addition the Wizard can swap out the spells she can use in a day while the fighter cannot swap out exploits.
Come on man, I'm just makin' a joke. You just can't help yourself, can you.
=D
I like the game....
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And i don't care how you slice it the new so called multi-class rules are crap. I will continue to stockpile my 3.5/3rd edition stuff though. It can be had for cheap!
In practice multiclassing has changed very little. As a character progresses you can gain abilities from two classes. That is the exact same thing as 3e.
Spell Storm is an 11th-level Spellstorm Mage ability that lets you recall a previously cast spell by making a Wisdom check.
Arcane Mastery is an epic feat (21st-level) that lets you regain a daily spell by burning an action point.
Spell Recall is a 21st-level Archmage ability that lets you cast a daily spell 2/day for free.
Shape Magic is a 26th-level Archmage utility that lets you regain a previously cast spell.
Archspell is a 30th-level Archmage ability that changes a daily spell into an encounter spell.
Starting at 29th-level when you actually get meteor swarm, you would be able to cast it, use Spell Storm to recall it, cast it again, use Spell Recall to regain it, cast it again, use Shape Magic to recall it, cast it again, use an action point to recall it, and finally cast it one last time. So, for one encounter in a day, you can actually cast it four times.
Now, I thought I edited my past post as I realized that the above stuff doesnt all work on encounter powers: apparently Arcane Mastery and Spell Recall only apply to daily spells. The original post was made as I was searching the rules "on the fly" looking for stuff that would improve that, since I remembered that the archmage could do that sort of thing. Everything that I found I just stumbled upon while quickly browsing feats and paragon paths for stuff "just in case".
Basically, at the level where you can get the spell, you have the potential to roll it out at LEAST four times per day. As you progress through encounters and regain your action point, you can continually expend it to regain it, however. I would say that on average, expect your 29th-level wizards to be able to cast it about...eight times a day. Once you hit 30th-level, if you choose to turn it into an encounter spell...well then you can still use Shape Magic and Storm Spell to regain it, in which case your meteor swarm output is equal to the number of encounters you go through +2.
If you have a Staff of Power and score a crit, you dont expend the power (one per day).
Epic Resurgence comes to the rescue her, allowing you to recall an encounter spell if you make a critical hit with any attack, at any time.
In either case, its still more than what I would expect a 20th-level wizard to be able to do, which is five, assuming he preps only meteor swarms for every 9th-level slot AND has an Intelligence of 28 (otherwise its just four).
One thing to keep in mind is that meteor swarm is an example of one of the most powerful attacks that characters can get, even if the spell of the same name in 3rd Edition did more damage dice.
Characters really can no longer gain templates as far as I've seen. You can apply a template to a monster to make it Elite, or two to make it Solo. You can also apply a single template to an Elite monster to make it functionally a Solo creature.
When applying a template, you give the monster all the benefits listed, and you are done. Its not nearly as complex as 3rd Edition, and also results in more reliable builds.
The only real catch is when you slap on two templates, or upgrade an Elite to Solo, in which case you have to multiply the hit points and boost the save from +2 to +5. Still, pretty easy, and it mentions it specifically.
Otherwise, there are also eight class templates that are used for making a monster appear to have a class, such as fighter or warlock.
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Could a very very very kind person list the table of contents for the DMG and MM? I would very much appreciate it.
Here ya go
DMG:
1: How to Be a DM . . . . 4
The Gaming Group. . . . 6
The Players. . . . 8
The Dungeon Master. . . . 12
Table Rules. . . 14
2: Running the Game. . . . . . . . . 16
Preparing. . . 18
Getting Started. . . . 19
Chronicling a Game. . . . 19
Modes of the Game. . . . 20
Narration. . . . 22
Pacing. . . 24
Props . . . . 25
Dispensing Information. . . . 26
Passive Skill Checks. . . . 26
Informing Players. . . . 26
Rituals . . . . 27
Improvising. . . . 28
Ending . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 29
Troubleshooting. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 30
Teaching the Game. . . . . 33
3: Combat Encounters. . . . 34
Combat Fundamentals . . . . 36
Monster Readiness. . . . . 36
Surprise. . . . 36
Roll Initiative!. . . . 38
Running Combat. . . 40
When Is an Encounter Over?. . . . 41
After an Encounter. . . . 41
Additional Rules . . . . . 42
Actions the Rules Don’t Cover . . 42
Cover. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 43
Forced Movement and Terrain. . . 44
Aquatic Combat . . . . 45
Mounted Combat. . . . 46
Flying. . . 47
Disease . . . . 49
Poison . . . . . . . . . . 50
4: Building Encounters. . . . 52
Monster Roles . . . . . 54
Encounter Components . . . . . 56
Encounter Level. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 56
Target XP Reward. . . . 57
Encounter Templates. . . . 58
Battlefield Control. . . . 58
Commander and Troops. . . . 58
Dragon’s Den. . . . 58
Double Line. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 58
Wolf Pack. . . . 59
Encounter Settings. . . . 60
Terrain Features . . . . 60
Terrain and Roles . . . . 62
Sample Mundane Terrain. . . . 64
Outdoor Terrain . . . . 66
Light Sources. . . . 66
Vision and Special Senses. . . . 67
Sample Fantastic Terrain . . . . 67
5: Noncombat Encounters.70
Skill Challenges. . . . 72
Running a Skill Challenge. . . . . . . . 74
Opposed Checks. . . . 74
Interrupting a Skill Challenge. . . . 75
Sample Skill Challenges . . . . 76
Puzzles. . . . 81
Using Puzzles. . . . . 81
Designing Puzzles. . . . . 82
Traps and Hazards . . . . 85
Using Traps and Hazards. . . . . . . . 87
Sample Traps and Hazards. . . . . 87
6: Adventures. . . . . . . . . . 94
Published Adventures. . . . 96
Fixing Problems. . . . 98
Building an Adventure. . . . . . . . . . 100
Quests. . . . . 102
Encounter Mix. . . . . . . . . . 104
Adventure Setting. . . . 106
Setting Personality. . . . . . . . . . . 108
Setting Details. . . . 110
Furnishings and Features. . . . . 111
Mapping the Site. . . . 112
Outdoor Settings . . . . 114
Event-Based Adventures. . . . . . . . 115
Cast of Characters . . . . 116
Allies as Extra Characters. . . . 116
7: Rewards. . . . 118
Experience Points. . . . 120
Quests. . . . 122
Milestones. . . . 123
Treasure. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 124
Monetary Treasure. . . . 124
Gems. . . . 124
Art Objects. . . . . . . . . . 124
Magic Items . . . . 125
Awarding Treasure. . . . . 125
Treasure Parcels . . . . 126
8: Campaigns. . . . . . . . . . 130
Published Campaigns . . . . 132
Campaign Theme. . . . 134
Super Adventures. . . . 138
Campaign Story. . . . 140
Beginning a Campaign. . . . . . . . . . 142
Starting at Higher Level. . . . 143
Running a Campaign. . . 144
Tiers of Play . . . . . 146
Ending a Campaign. . . . 147
9: Th e World. . . 148
The D&D World. . . . . 150
Civilization. . . . 152
Mapping a Settlement. . . . 154
Teleportation Circles. . . . 156
The Wild. . . . 158
Weather . . . . 158
Environmental Dangers . . . . 158
Starvation, Thirst,
and Suffocation. . . . 159
The Planes. . . . . 160
The Gods. . . . . 162
Artifacts. . . . 164
The Axe of the
Dwarvish Lords. . . . . . . . . . . . . 165
The Eye of Vecna. . . 167
The Hand of Vecna. . . . . 168
The Invulnerable
Coat of Arnd . . . . . 170
Languages. . . . 171
10: Th e DM ’s Toolbox. . . . 172
Customizing Monsters. . . . 174
Increasing or
Decreasing Level. . . . 174
Adding Equipment. . . . . 174
Templates. . . . 175
Functional Templates. . . . 176
Class Templates. . . . 182
Creating Monsters . . . . 184
Monster Design Steps. . . . . . . . . 184
Elite and Solo Monsters. . . . . 184
Creating NPCs. . . . 186
NPC Design Steps. . . . 187
Level Bonus and
Magic Threshold. . . . . 187
Creating House Rules. . . . 189
Rules Design 101. . . . . 189
Example House Rules . . . . 189
Fumble . . . . 189
Critical Success and Failure.. 189
Random Dungeons. . . . 190
Random Encounters. . . . . 193
11: Fallcrest. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 196
The Town of Fallcrest. . . . 198
The Nentir Vale. . . . 206
Involving the Players . . . . 209
Kobold Hall. . . . 210
Combat Cards . . . . . 220
Index. . . . 221
Battle Grids. . . . 222
and
MM:
CONTENTS . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . III
MONSTERS A TO Z . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4
Aboleth . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 8
Aboleth Servitor . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 9
Abomination . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 10
Angel . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 14
Archon . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 18
Azer . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 22
Balhannoth . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 24
Banshrae . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 25
Basilisk . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 26
Bat . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 27
Battlebriar . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 28
Bear . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 29
Beetle . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 30
Behemoth . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 31
Beholder . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 32
Berbalang . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 34
Boar . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 35
Bodak . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 36
Boneclaw . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 37
Bulette . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 38
Cambion . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 39
Carrion Crawler . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 40
Chimera . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 41
Choker . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 42
Chuul . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 43
Colossus . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 44
Crocodile . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 45
Cyclops . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 46
Dark One . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 49
Death Knight . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 50
Demon . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 52
Destrachan . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 59
Devil . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 60
Devourer . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 68
Displacer Beast . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 70
Doppelganger . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 71
Dracolich . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 72
Dragon . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 74
Black Dragon . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 75
Blue Dragon . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 77
Green Dragon . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 79
Red Dragon . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 82
White Dragon . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 84
Dragonborn . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 86
Dragonspawn . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 88
Drake . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 90
Drider . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 93
Drow . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 94
Dryad . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 96
Dwarf . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 97
Eidolon . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 101
Eladrin . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 102
Elemental . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 104
Elf. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 106
Ettercap . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 107
Ettin . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 108
Flameskull . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 109
Fomorian . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 110
Foulspawn . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 112
Galeb Duhr . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 114
Gargoyle . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 115
Ghost . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 116
Ghoul . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 118
Giant . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 120
Gibbering Beast . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 126
Githyanki . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 128
Githzerai . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 130
Gnoll . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 132
Gnome . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 134
Goblin . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 135
Golem . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 142
Gorgon . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 143
Grell . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 144
Grick . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 145
Griff on . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 146
Grimlock . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 148
Guardian . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 149
Hag . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 150
Halfl ing . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 152
Harpy . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 154
Helmed Horror . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 155
Homunculus . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 156
Hook Horror . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 158
Horse . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 159
Hound . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 160
Human . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 162
Hydra . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 164
Hyena . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 166
Kobold . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 167
Kruthik . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 170
Kuo-Toa . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 172
Lamia . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 174
Larva Mage . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 175
Lich . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 176
Lich Vestige . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 176
Lizardfolk . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 178
Lycanthrope . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 180
Magma Beast . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 182
Manticore . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 184
Marut . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 185
Medusa . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 186
Mind Flayer . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 188
Minotaur . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 190
Mummy . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 192
Naga . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 194
Nightmare . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 196
Nightwalker . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 197
Ogre . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 198
Ooze . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 202
Orc . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 203
Orcus . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .206
Otyugh . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 211
Owlbear . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 212
Panther . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 213
Purple Worm . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 214
Quickling . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 215
Rakshasa . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 216
Rat . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 219
Roc . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 220
Roper . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 222
Rot Harbinger . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 223
Sahuagin . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 224
Salamander . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 226
Satyr . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 228
Scorpion . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 229
Shadar-Kai . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 230
Shambling Mound . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 232
Shifter. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 233
Skeleton . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 234
Skull Lord . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 236
Slaad . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 237
Snake . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 240
Sorrowsworn . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 242
Specter . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .244
Sphinx . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 245
Spider . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 246
Stirge . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 248
Swordwing . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 249
Tiefl ing . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 250
Treant . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 251
Troglodyte . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 252
Troll . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 254
Umber Hulk . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 256
Unicorn . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 257
Vampire . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 258
Vampire Spawn . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 259
Vine Horror . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 260
Warforged . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 261
Wight . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 262
Wolf . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .264
Worg . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 265
Wraith . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 266
Wyvern . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 268
Yuan-Ti . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 269
Zombie . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 274
RACIAL TRAITS . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 276
GLOSSARY . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .280
MONSTERS BY LEVEL . . . . . . . . .284
After browsing through the new 4E PHB, all I can say is that it's a new edition and with it a new era of Fantasy roleplaying.
D&D have influenced many areas in our lives, from books to computer games. I see no flaw in books and games reflecting back to a new version of D&D.
The game, as I knew it from 1st edition of AD&D, has evolved. It got more complicated and sometime more streamlined, but every edition brought with it a scent of fresh flavour.
4E brought with it some flare to my office life, when a few employees turned up to me and said that since I've been a DM in 3.5, if it's okay with me to try and DM for them with the new edition... I was amazed.
Sure, it's different, it might even look totaly different to hardcore players but the main theme of Fantasy Roleplay is still there.
Just like people axed 3.0 when it came out and "tried" to stick to 2nd edition (I even know some people who tried to stick to 1st edition). It's a new system, give it a break and let it mature. It's fun, easy to learn, easier on us crowd (DMs) and I think my kids will enjoy it as well.
Could a very very very kind person list the table of contents for the DMG and MM? I would very much appreciate it.Here ya go
Just curious, but what's a Larva Mage?
Ta Antioch, I thought there was something screwy with the three per encounter meteor swarms. From what you've said it looks like it's more like one and a half per encounter meteor swarms (assuming the Spellstorm Mage's always using Arcane Mastery to burn their every-other-round action point to regain it).*snip*
Basically, at the level where you can get the spell, you have the potential to roll it out at LEAST four times per day. As you progress through encounters and regain your action point, you can continually expend it to regain it, however. I would say that on average, expect your 29th-level wizards to be able to cast it about...eight times a day. Once you hit 30th-level, if you choose to turn it into an encounter spell...well then you can still use Shape Magic and Storm Spell to regain it, in which case your meteor swarm output is equal to the number of encounters you go through +2.
If you have a Staff of Power and score a crit, you dont expend the power (one per day). ...
Thats still about eight per day, which is easily three more than the other wizard meat is tossing out. :-P
OK, I've been looking at the rules -- and it's annoying. First impression: Dungeons & Dragons, version Mary Sue.
Mind you, that impression doesn't go away.
But a scene from Deep Space Nine inspires this conversation between two long-time D&D players:
They've done a great job, but it deviates too far from the D&D I've played for thirty years -- converting my campaign would take a lot of work. If we were starting from scratch, I'd probably switch in a heartbeart.
How frustrating :(
And for the record, my biggest criticism is something that's come up before -- characters have no disadvantages. People can argue all they want, but I think about literature: good stories are about characters with strengths and shortcomings. 4e stays far, far away from that silliness.
IMO.
And for the record, my biggest criticism is something that's come up before -- characters have no disadvantages. People can argue all they want, but I think about literature: good stories are about characters with strengths and shortcomings. 4e stays far, far away from that silliness.
Well, I'm curious: why do you think that 4E characters don't have disadvantages?
If you are talking about power-wise disadvantages... with the roles, each class has obvious strenghts and weaknesses that can't be mitigated by just selecting the proper combination of feats and prestige classes. 4E encourages accepting the weaknesses of your character and compensating it through team working, rather than flipping your splatbooks looking for some obscure prestige class that will provide you an "optimal" build.
If you are talking about role-playing disadvantages... then the 4E PHB encourages you to select any kind of personality your desire for your character, even the "disadvantageous" ones:
How do others perceive you in social interactions?
Cheerful Talkative Reserved
Charming Witty RelaxedHow optimistic are you?
Enthusiastic Hopeful Fatalistic
Grim Self-assured BroodingHow trusting are you?
Gullible Open-minded Skeptical
Suspicious Naive TrustingHow assertive are you at a decision point?
Humble Adaptable Commanding
Timid Easygoing ImpatientHow conscientious are you about following rules?
Scrupulous Pragmatic Dutiful
Honest Flexible WildHow empathetic are you?
Kind Stern Thoughtful
Protective Hard-hearted ObliviousHow courageous are you in dire straits?
Brave Competitive Steady
Cautious Reckless FierceHow do you feel when faced by setbacks?
Stoic Driven Happy-go-lucky
Vengeful Bold ImpassionedHow are your nerves?
Calm Skittish Restless
Impulsive Patient Unshakable
And for the record, my biggest criticism is something that's come up before -- characters have no disadvantages. People can argue all they want, but I think about literature: good stories are about characters with strengths and shortcomings. 4e stays far, far away from that silliness.IMO.
Well Tatterdemalion, we agree that good literature characters have a both strengths and shortcomings.
My question to you is, why does that need to translate into a mechanical disadvantage in the game? Yes, to be a well rounded fictional character you need both, but can't those shortcomings come roleplaying?
I have never seen how having a -2 stat penalties in 3.x translated into a well rounded character, when the way you play the character is much much more important.
And for the record, my biggest criticism is something that's come up before -- characters have no disadvantages. People can argue all they want, but I think about literature: good stories are about characters with strengths and shortcomings. 4e stays far, far away from that silliness.
To be fair, in 3rd Edition all you really got in terms of a mechanical disadvantage was a -2 to an ability score, though sometimes you didnt get anything at all. Perhaps more penalties if you were playing a monstrous race, sometimes just bonuses.
Otherwise, you got your class and it just gave you some stuff. Though all too often a class ended up with sucktacular capabilities near the end of the 20-level progression (of course, some just sucked out of the gate).To me, 4th Edition removed a minor penalty, and thats about it in terms of reducing mechanical penalties. You still pick various options for your character, and those give you more things to do (or make existing things better).
Now, if you're referring to only social/immersive roleplay situations, then I'm not sure how this possibly could have happened.
And for the record, my biggest criticism is something that's come up before -- characters have no disadvantages. People can argue all they want, but I think about literature: good stories are about characters with strengths and shortcomings. 4e stays far, far away from that silliness.IMO.
Well Tatterdemalion, we agree that good literature characters have a both strengths and shortcomings.
My question to you is, why does that need to translate into a mechanical disadvantage in the game? Yes, to be a well rounded fictional character you need both, but can't those shortcomings come roleplaying?
I have never seen how having a -2 stat penalties in 3.x translated into a well rounded character, when the way you play the character is much much more important.
Though my first 4E character that I rolled had an 8 in Strength, I've very rarely seen a "standard" NPC with anything less than an 8 that wasnt using the elite array. Most have at least 10s or higher. Years ago I used to think that having a low score made it easier to "roleplay", but it really doesnt. Characters dont need a -1 penalty that is either never going to come to surface (the wizard who never makes melee attacks) or is drowned out by magic item bonuses (the dwarf sorcerer).
I think that a more effective approach to having an in-depth character, if the adventure/campaign/group/game calls for one, is to focus more on character traits: the greedy dwarf, aloof elf, ambitious human, etc. Those are so much more likely to come to the forefront than a -1 to your Wisdom. You failed a Listen check? Well you didnt have any ranks in it anyway, so its not like your -1 really hindered things much.
Well, I'm curious: why do you think that 4E characters don't have disadvantages?
An example are ability modifiers -- they are now all bonuses, rather than bonuses countered by penalties. I think anything that might be perceived as a specific weakness has been removed from the game. I also think this is a central paradigm of 4e.
And to be careful with my criticism, I think characters do have disadvantages (for example, wizards' hp are lower than fighters') -- but WotC is very careful to eliminate any overt indication that a character generation choice is, in any way, inferior to another.
It's not a flaw -- I just find the philosophy unappealing.
Contributor
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An example are ability modifiers -- they are now all bonuses, rather than bonuses countered by penalties. I think anything that might be perceived as a specific weakness has been removed from the game. I also think this is a central paradigm of 4e.
Ability modifiers in 4E are actually exactly the same as in 3E. Although you do add half your level to all ability checks, so eventually any negatives will become overall positive rolls.
Unless you are talking about something else...
Ability modifiers in 4E are actually exactly the same as in 3E. Although you do add half your level to all ability checks, so eventually any negatives will become overall positive rolls.
Unless you are talking about something else...
He's referring to the racial bonuses to stats. There are no more negative modifiers in 4e.
I think I should clarify what bothers me here. People don't seem to appreciate that I admire the mechanics of the game. I just don't admire a very careful philosophical change that has been deliberately inserted into the game.
You can tell me it's not a big deal, but it was to WotC -- they took great pains to make this change.
Regards all :)
He's referring to the racial bonuses to stats. There are no more negative modifiers in 4e.
Thanks. I didn't make that clear at all.
I think I should clarify what bothers me here. People don't seem to appreciate that I admire the mechanics of the game. I just don't admire a very careful philosophical change that has been deliberately inserted into the game.
You can tell me it's not a big deal, but it was to WotC -- they took great pains to make this change.
Regards all :)
What exactly do you mean? You can actually create a sub-optimal character quite easily in 4e if your main stats don't mesh with your power selection. I guess, more importantly, why are sub-optimal choices important to your campaign?
I think I'm going to wave the white flag now. I can't say anything that won't get rebutted by someone.
WotC themselves talked about the very same philosophical changes in the game over the past several months. They want all choices to be as balanced (and advantageous) as possible.It seems a little comical that I'm trying to defend points WotC themselves alluded to months ago.
I don't like that philosophical shift -- that's all.
Regards :)
I think I'm going to wave the white flag now. I can't say anything that won't get rebutted by someone.
WotC themselves talked about the very same philosophical changes in the game over the past several months. They want all choices to be as balanced (and advantageous) as possible.It seems a little comical that I'm trying to defend points WotC themselves alluded to months ago.
I don't like that philosophical shift -- that's all.
Regards :)
That's cool, but I didn't really want you to wave the white flag, I was hoping we could discuss your campaign and see if we could get it to (largely fit) with the new game. :)
Though to be fair to WoTC, I think their statements were predicated on people not intentionally making the sub-optimal choice!
What exactly do you mean? You can actually create a sub-optimal character quite easily in 4e if your main stats don't mesh with your power selection. I guess, more importantly, why are sub-optimal choices important to your campaign?I think I should clarify what bothers me here. People don't seem to appreciate that I admire the mechanics of the game. I just don't admire a very careful philosophical change that has been deliberately inserted into the game.
You can tell me it's not a big deal, but it was to WotC -- they took great pains to make this change.
Regards all :)
I think Tatterdemalion is referring to the fact is that the gap between "optimal" and "suboptimal" characters was reduced. "Suboptimal" characters have something charming and "cool" about them.
For instance, if you wanted to play a hobgoblin wizard on 3.5E, the talk with your DM would be like this:
Player: I want to play a hobgoblin wizard.
DM: Okay... uh.. why?
Player: Well, no particular reason.
DM: But... do you know that you will have a +1 level adjustment?
Player: Yes.
DM: And... you know that you won't have 3rd-level spells because of this level adjustment?
Player: Yeah, I don't care.
DM: Alright. But don't complain later.
Player: I won't.
DM: ... Hey, look, I will warn you that this is a serious campaign with a very well prepared plot. No comic relief characters, please?
Player: But it's not a comic relief character.
DM: Then, why do you want to play a hobgoblin wizard?
Player: I dunno... maybe because I like hobgoblins and wizards?
DM: Okay, enough of it.
And on 4E would be like this:
Player: I want to play a hobgoblin wizard.
DM: Okay.
Let's say... suboptimality is somewhat part of D&D everyday life. Perhaps we will miss our players' excitment with their creative ideas of suboptimal characters.
Why is a suboptimal character inherently interesting and/or cool?
On the side, I think that this will actually spur players into creating more interesting characters: dwarf warlocks are more likely to happen, as are shifter...whatevers, since they dont get TWO stat penalties now in exchange for a daily temporary boost that evens you out for a bit.
I just dont think that you have to make a bad choice to be interesting, or that characters that DO are interesting. You took Persuasive? Whoop. De. Do.
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I can understand why a lack of negative stat modifiers seems to be the same as removing disadvantages. I think what you'll find is that they have simply flattened the curve.
If we use the new standard array of stats (16, 14, 13, 12, 11, 10) humans with a single bump in 4e come out to an average stat of 13.
If we use the same set for 3e the human average would be 12.7
Demi-humans in 4e have an average stat of 13.3
In 3e the typical demi-human would have an average stat of 12.7
So the swing is only .3 for humans and .6 for demi-humans.
That does not seem like that big a swing to me.
Every race only getting bonuses *is* a big shift away from previous editions, where for the goodies you got, you normally had to take a penalty. And, yeah, if you *deliberately* choose powers for which you have sub-optimal stats, then you still can gimp your character, but only the most oblivious player would be able to do that now.
I´ve been pretty vocal about my dislike of 4E, but I want to clarify that it is not because the rules are *bad*, per se. The rules are just fine, I just don´t think that they keep the spirit of what I feel is Dungeons and Dragons.
The new edition is, IMO, designed to make you feel that your character is cool and powerful... and while that of course also applies in large parts to 3rd edition, 4th edition seems to want to archieve this by minimizing any weakness your character may have. 3rd edition still made you keenly realize that your character wasn´t perfect.
At least that is how it seems to me. YMMV, etc. :)
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Every race only getting bonuses *is* a big shift away from previous editions, where for the goodies you got, you normally had to take a penalty.
But the penalty really wasn't a penalty and the difference between 3e and 4e in terms of starting stats is not that big a deal.
Is it just the presence of a -2 that makes the real difference?
In 4e every race has its strengths and its weaknesses just like 3e even though they are not expressed as a negative integer.
As you guys take a look at the new 4th ed, please share your oppinions. (I say "take a look" because that's what you'll probably literally do, "look" at it, at the pictures...)
Honestly, how can anyone take someone's opinion about an RPG if that person has never even played the damn game? ...
For those still on the fence, I suggest holding off on making assumptions about the game until you actually play it. I had my assumptions about the game, and then I played it. It's definitely not 3rd Edition, and a lot of old edition purists may hate it. That's fine, but until you play the goddamn game, how can you judge it?
That's like reading the rules to basketball - "Two teams of five players run up and down a court and try to throw a ball into a hole." - and deciding how fun it'd be based on the description...
PLAY THE DAMN GAME!
Why is a suboptimal character inherently interesting and/or cool?
On the side, I think that this will actually spur players into creating more interesting characters: dwarf warlocks are more likely to happen, as are shifter...whatevers, since they dont get TWO stat penalties now in exchange for a daily temporary boost that evens you out for a bit.
I just dont think that you have to make a bad choice to be interesting, or that characters that DO are interesting. You took Persuasive? Whoop. De. Do.
Oh, and amen to this post. Anyone who relies on game mechanics to make their characters interesting... I pity you.
Making your character interesting is what the whole "roleplaying" part of this game is about. The mechanics and cool powers are the "game" part.
Is it just the presence of a -2 that makes the real difference?
It made you get a negative for a net positive. Which, IMO, also promoted a certain type of roleplaying. You know, elves are nimble but frail, dwarfes are robust but gruff, etc. That normally results in certain archetypes which we are used to, sometimes also in hilarious "against the type" characters and so on.
Now, I know that you can certainly just say that one can just take the flavor text from the race descriptions, but I prefer certain racial characteristics to be also somehow be expressed mechanically.
Y'know, I think a good analogy about how I feel about 4E is that it just feels like they describe the the dark side of the Force. Easier, quicker... but in the end shallow and hollow.
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Is it just the presence of a -2 that makes the real difference?It made you get a negative for a net positive. Which, IMO, also promoted a certain type of roleplaying. You know, elves are nimble but frail, dwarfes are robust but gruff, etc. That normally results in certain archetypes which we are used to, sometimes also in hilarious "against the type" characters and so on.
Now, I know that you can certainly just say that one can just take the flavor text from the race descriptions, but I prefer certain racial characteristics to be also somehow be expressed mechanically.
Y'know, I think a good analogy about how I feel about 4E is that it just feels like they describe the the dark side of the Force. Easier, quicker... but in the end shallow and hollow.
Nearly every dwarf PC I have ever encountered was played in a ruff and gruff manner regardless of their actual charisma score. I have never had anyone play and elf as "frail".
If anything the reliance on mechanics to dictate roleplaying is the quick and easy path.
To me the best roleplayers are those that give their PCs life in spite of the mechanics and not those that can take numbers and play out the stereotypes.