Arcane Bond is broken


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Squirrelloid wrote:


And breaking the item requires you to know what it is (not as obvious if its not a wand or staff), and even with detect magic the wizard could very well have prestidigitationed rings or Nystul's Magic Aura on items to mislead you. They may even carry a wand or staff just to misdirect you. This of course assumes the item is visible - nothing in the rules requires the wizard to wear his arcane bonded amulet...

Ah well, maybe my brain was too much wired up on Hairy Potter right now (Expelliarmus, and poof, you're no longer a spellcaster...).

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder PF Special Edition, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Squirrelloid wrote:


Genesis. Its a 9th level psionic power (which is in the SRD), and its also a 9th level cleric spell in CD iirc. As its in the SRD, its part of the core, even if it is psionics. It lets you set all the parameters of your demiplane as well, which would include what the 'tuning fork' for your plane was, as well as how fast time flows.

Except that you're wrong about the time thing. As quoted from the SRD

You determine the environment within the demiplane when you manifest genesis, reflecting most any desire you can visualize. You determine factors such as atmosphere, water, temperature, and the general shape of the terrain. This power cannot create life (including vegetation), nor can it create construction (such as buildings, roads, wells, dungeons, and so forth). You must add these details in some other fashion if you desire. You can’t create lingering psionic effects with this power; you have to add those separately, if desired. Similarly, you can’t create a demiplane out of esoteric material, such as silver or uranium; you’re limited to stone and dirt. You can’t manipulate the time trait on your demiplane; its time trait is as the Material Plane. Once your demiplane reaches 180 feet in radius, you can manifest this power again to gradually add another 180 feet of radius to it, and so on..

Genesis SRD

So no day of rest for 6 secs of real time.


Celric wrote:


My first Bonded item was a staff (@ 2nd level) that I made into a +1/+1 staff for 1000gp, sucking all my gold at that level. I got cocky because I had a magic weapon and the fighter didn't (yeah, I played him to have a complex), waded into battle, and then had it sundered after "casting" a spell out of it.

Technically, I don't think you could have done that with your staff until level 3 (you need to have a Caster Level 3x the enhancement bonus). Thus, a limit other than cash.

Celric wrote:


I found that playing a wizard costs money. Money for spells, money to write those spells into your book, money to create magic items, money for spell componants. If I balance all this out against the fact that I can only cast one extra spell that I know once per day of adventuring... Yeah, I find it balances nicely.

Agreed.

Liberty's Edge

Celric wrote:
My first Bonded item was a staff (@ 2nd level) that I made into a +1/+1 staff for 1000gp, sucking all my gold at that level. I got cocky because I had a magic weapon and the fighter didn't (yeah, I played him to have a complex), waded into battle, and then had it sundered after "casting" a spell out of it.

Doug Bragg just beat me on this fact, pointing out that you would technically have to be 3rd level. I just figured I would point out why. According to the magical item creation rules you have to have 3 levels for every stacking +1 you add to a weapon. So you could have a +1 at 3, but couldn't have a +2 or a +1 bane weapon or the like until 6.

I started a really long post, responding to a lot of the other comments on here, but I think I'm going to surrender in that regard and accept that squirreloid(sp) plays a very different style of game then I do.

I'm all for the clarification of rules and clearing up the limitations that comes with arcane bonding an item, but I also think that in any system where there is choice, people who try and break the system will be able to bend those choices to their advantage. However, without going out of my way to hunt out every little way I could stretch it to my advantage(and generally using splat books which are out of PRPGs scope to control anyway) I don't see any real level of abuse once some wording is cleared up as was mentioned in my previous post.

If I do specifically look for ways to break the system, then I don't see anything that is more crazy than what could be done with a diplomacy focused bard, or a frenzied berserker, or a warblade with the right stances/maneuvers.

-Tarlane


Derringer wrote:

I only did one playtest with a 6th level wizard, but I do agree with all three of Squirrelloid's points.

The free spell per day was powerful. However, I did greatly enjoy the flexiblity of knowing that once a day I could pull any spell out of my book. I think it added to the game experience, and should be kept. Essentially, it just saved me the cost of making a bunch of backup scrolls. Still, it is an significant bump in power and steps on the sorcerer's toes.

The cheap item creation was huge. I like the idea of being able to make one item without having the feats....but making it cheap was over the top.

In the end, I did end up feeling that the wizard was fine before...so with this plus the school powers they were given - they are far outclassing the Sorcerer. Yes I realize that the Arcane bloodline gives a sorcerer this bond option as well, but it doesn't mean as much to the sorcerer as it does to the wizard - the sorcerer never has to worry about not picking the right spells for the day...and doesn't have many to choose from anyway.

So...yes, maybe all of the changes do make the wizard balance better compared to the cleric or druid....but I think he has stretched out his lead over the sorcerer.

Excellent post I agree with all your points.

Item Creation is Huge and Game Breaking IMO especially at higher levels with more party wealth and no experience point cost to provide a break.

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Charter Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

I'll say this. An elven Wizard into an Arcane Archer is soo good. :)


Locworks wrote:

Alpha 3, p. 49

"A bonded object can be used once per day to cast any one spell that the wizard knows, just as if the wizard had cast it."

I have some real issues with even the wording of this ability. What is the definition of "knows?" Does the wizard have to be able to merely understand the spell? Does the spell just have to be in his spellbook. Can he cast the spell if he is just holding a scroll of the spell that he has decifered? What if he has someone else write a spell opposed to his specialization into his spell book?

The rule here is vague, and is overpowered in any event. I agree with "1/2" the level of the wizards highest spell, rounded down (at first and second level the wizard gets an additional cantrip).

Also, bear in mind that in Pathfinder, magic items will be much more restricted by body type when it comes to certain effects such as ability enhancements.

-Steve


hogarth wrote:
airwalkrr wrote:


Most of the classes didn't need help, they just needed incentive to keep you from exploring other base classes as alternatives.
Maybe...but the Arcane Bond item works exactly the same irrespective of how many levels of wizard you have (unlike a familiar, which is based on class levels for abilities).

That's something of a misrepresentation. While the ability of Arcane Bond remains the same, its power level scales with the character as the character advances.

-Steve


aegrist13 wrote:
It seems to me to function like a Pearl of Power. This doesnt seem like a huge increase to me.

Pearls of Power can only recall spells already cast, not allow you to cast any spell you know.

-Steve

Scarab Sages

I am slightly confused by the reluctance to just go with this, I have to admit. The extra spell that comes from the bonded object will likely be used to save the collective asses of the party (or overcome some obstacle for the whole party that would otherwise result in long delays). On occasion it might be that last-gasp teleport that the wizard uses to avoid the T in TPK. :)

As for the enchanting aspects... give the wizard a break. He has to spend all his money on spell components, spell foci, paper, pens, ink, scrolls, etc to, once again, save the party's collective asses. While the Cleric is the one who is generally saddled with healing the party it doesn't cost him *anything*. Everything the wizard does costs money, pretty much, and it's almost entirely to the benefit of the whole party he travels with. The wizard can't *afford* to be selfish, either, as it doesn't take much for him to get whacked in combat. It's in the wizard's best interest to do everything he can to keep the meat-shields in good shape to stop the nasties from getting to him. :) Wizard, after Cleric, is probably the least selfish class in the core game since everything he does helps the party.

So if the wizard wants to keep a little something for himself, tucked away so that he has something special, I say let him do it. He deserves it.

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