Edit: Uh... what happened to the post I was responding to? someone had written up a brief critique of the halfling in Alpha 3, complaining that the Charisma bonus and bard class preference were essentially duplicating the gnome.
--- my comments ---
Personally, I really liked the halflings in alpha 2. Halflings are your typical rogues, so Int was a logical choice (regardless of whether it was redundant). I can certainly see Wisdom being a good choice for the common sense/practical nature of them.
Charisma and Bard feel wrong to me... that's a gnome, and really that's what distinguishes a gnome from a halfling.
As for favored class... I liked the wizard. Primarily because I play halfling wizards a lot, I admit. But the race and class do work very well together. Halflings don't strike me as crusaders or entertainers generally, so I'd vote no to paladin and bard. I don't typically play a druid, so I really don't have much of a thought on that either way... although it does seem closer to the wild nature of halflings than a cleric. A ranger might also make sense for the same reason.
I’d like a wisdom bonus for halflings, and favored class to be rogue and ranger.
I deleted it. I'm a bit new to the boards, and I posted the thread, but didn't see it show up on the main forums... So I tried posting it again, only to discover afterwards that the first thread had appeared.
I felt the re-posted thread was a bit better written, so I deleted the original thread's first post, in the hopes that everything would work out okay. Good to see it got some notice, though. Sorry about the confusion...
Edit: Scratch that... THe other thread doesn't have a single post in it. Not sure how everything vanished from both threads... That shouldn't be. *sigh*
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Well, my general suggestions are still carrying on, but I guess I'll go ahead and reiterate: DEX and WIS for halflings, because DEX and INT are too much like the elf, and giving a CHA boost to both small creatures is just strange. Personally, I like halflings as paladins to represent the noble, lawful, communal tendencies they often seem to have (Yondalla's a paladin), but I know that most people don't, so I'm not really suggesting it. My suggested second favored class was druid, though ranger is a good choice as well.
I deleted it. I'm a bit new to the boards, and I posted the thread, but didn't see it show up on the main forums... So I tried posting it again, only to discover afterwards that the first thread had appeared.Incidentally - welcome to the boards. They're a little twitchy, but don't worry. So are the people.
Mind your head.
Thanks. I'm getting used to them. They're nice enough, and people seem reasonably cool here. It's the posting new threads thing I'll need to get used to. I'm more familiar with the WotC boards, though I suspect I'll be frequenting this place a lot more. Getting ready to give Pathfinder a whirl this weekend for the first time (though it'll likely just be character generation).
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I too really liked the A2 halflings. The Charisma boost doesn't feel right.Never met a jovial and likable halfling? Seriously, in my opinion DEX and CHA are better than DEX and INT. Now, I wouldn't mind if halfling's favored classes were rogue and ranger...
Actually, no not really. Halflings are generally looked at as thieves, no matter their charisma. In general rogues that I've dealt with had high Intelligence for more skills (never enough skills), and the the Intelligence boost worked well with that. I also like Halfling wizards.
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The bard thing works well for halflings I think, just because them being something of wanderers seems a pretty common trend, outside of tolkien anyway.
Whether its the wanderers diplomacy, or the view in the PRPG of them just never really feeling totally settled in a spot and being willing to take up a new opportunity, not having a real country, all that seems very bard to me.
-Tarlane
EDIT: And charisma? Come on, they are so cute!
Except for the problem of backwards compatibility, I actually like Halfling with Dex/Cha and Rog/Bard, and Gnomes with Con/Cha or Con/Wis (either works), and Druid/Sorc.
Aren't gnomes the ones with a tradition of tinkering, and learned magic? Why not let Halflings keep Charisma, and give Gnomes the Int boost?
Aren't gnomes the ones with a tradition of tinkering, and learned magic? Why not let Halflings keep Charisma, and give Gnomes the Int boost?
That's a very good point, actually. Gnomes with an INT boost make a lot of sense... But they also have a lot of flair, theatrics, and fey feel to them which implies Charisma...
I do like the Int boost more, though. Not the least of which is because gnomes IMC are prone heavily to psionics.
I think that Halfings should get the charisma boost and gnomes get the intelligence boost, I've always used more "tinker" gnomes (though not as eccentric and crazy as the Dragonlance tinker gnomes). I think it works a lot better.
On a slightly related topic, I noticed that in the NPC generation rules, Table 14-7 page 135, halflings are listed as have a +2 Int, not Cha.
I think some of the point of Pathfinder's gnomes is to make sure that they don't fall into the DL version of the gnome, and I think shying away from an intelligence bonus is a big step in this direction.
I don't mind gnomes and halflings having the same "good" mental stat. Gnomes are the more magical of the two, and halflings are the more "streetwise" of the two.
While there is nothing against halflings being intelligent, I think that saying a halfling is naturally smarter than every race but elves felt like a bit of a reach, and halflings have never really had any tradition of wizardry in any version of the game.
Given that the Pathfinder mindset seems to be to give a spellcasting class along with a more "mundane" class as the two favored classes, I think that bard and rogue make sense. The only other caster class that makes sense is druid, to my way of thinking (which kind of bisects halflings between the pastoral types and the city dwellers with the druid/rogue thing), but even a charisma bonus doesn't really play into being a druid (though that doesn't bother me too much personally).
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Personally I like the Dex Int, granted thats alot like the elf, but Dex Cha is like a gnome, and Dex Wis would give us 3 out of 5 "set stat" races with a Wis bonus. So I'd like to see one of two things, 1) go back to AR 2 and give halflings their "cleverness" back (which is more how I see the Int bonus), or 2) give gnomes Int like has been suggested (which I agree with and many players love their gnome illusionists), and then give halflings Cha.
No, this is a great change - Int for halflings is silly, it's inconsistent with any previous halfling depictions in any edition of D&D. When's the last time anyone saw a halfling wizard? Never.
No, this is a great change - Int for halflings is silly, it's inconsistent with any previous halfling depictions in any edition of D&D. When's the last time anyone saw a halfling wizard? Never.
Willow?
I have to say that I prefer the idea of dexterity and wisdom, and though I love the thought of Golarion halflings as paladins (protecting barges and boats traveling the waterways, astride a giant heron mount), I think ranger makes a better choice for a favored class.
Aren't gnomes the ones with a tradition of tinkering, and learned magic? Why not let Halflings keep Charisma, and give Gnomes the Int boost?
In more traditional game settings, yes. Golarion's gnomes largely step away from this concept, however, filling more of a role as creatures of chaos and natural magic due to their origins. The tinkerers are still there, but it seems they're a relatively small group.
I really think the int bonus should be reinstated. The charisma bonus is good for Lem, but only threads on the gnomes feet, while Paizo had been doing such a good job differentiating the two small races, don't fold on that now.
And it more strongly suits the rogue type halfling. I know the new changes like the choice of favored class suit lem well, but they don't really add to the race as a whole, which is the point of the core rules.
Even if a choice was given, +2 cha and bard as class, or +2 int and rogue.
It sounds more like the choice between gnome and halfling than the choice between two options within halfling.
This is one strong vote for the return of the intelligence bonus.
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It just got to a point where I could't decide which to give my halflings since all 3 stats had very valid points, I just gave my players a choice. +2 Dex, +2 any mental stat, and -2 Str. I did this with the fluff that it represents their "adaptability," how they can seem to fit in anywhere with whatever odd job they could find. So that gives me 2 races with +Wis (which was my big objection to Wis since 2 other races already had it), one with +Int, one with +Cha, and 3 with a toss up.
I’d like a wisdom bonus for halflings, and favored class to be rogue and ranger.
QFT.
I’d like a wisdom bonus for halflings, and favored class to be rogue and ranger.QFT.
I concur. DEX +2, WIS +2, STR -2. Rogue and Ranger as favored classes... please!
I like the -2 Str, +2 Dex, +2 Cha. However, instead of favored Rogue / Bard, the scores allow for a Rogue / Sorcerer. I don't think anyone has Sorc as a favored class yet. Also, for the Halfling Paladin players among us, Cha fits better with the Alpha-3 description of Paladin.
Gnomes have sorcerer and bard. Though you're right on the Charisma and Paladin fronts... it doesn't break my heart to leave it Charisma... I just would prefer Wisdom.
Though I'm coming around more to the idea of gnomes with INT instead of CHA. Especially since I'll probably houserule that way anyway when I get rid of sorcerer as a favored class and move it to psion as befits my setting anyway...
The more I think about it, the more I like ranger as halfling's other favored class. They have racial bonus with certain ranged weapons, high dex, are in touch with nature, and have an outrider archetype. A riding-dog animal companion seems just perfect for halfling outriders.
Also, it gives Belkar some vindication, and who doesn't like that?
Love the new halfling. Dex/Cha, and rogue/bard. Perfect!
Let gnomes be wizards - a throwback to 1e - but sorcerer is an OK substitution, insofar as elves already have wizard as a favored class. I wouldn't change any of those 3 races from what the A3 document provides.
Love the new halfling. Dex/Cha, and rogue/bard. Perfect!
Let gnomes be wizards - a throwback to 1e - but sorcerer is an OK substitution, insofar as elves already have wizard as a favored class. I wouldn't change any of those 3 races from what the A3 document provides.
Yeah, they all work for me.