I'm a Paizo guy through and through, and I think Golarion is the best campaign setting ever, and nothing is going to change that. I also have both a beta and a final version of PFRPG on order.
That being said, I'm not afraid to look at new things, like 4th Edition.
If you're interested in 4th edition and third party support, this might interest you.
If you're not interested in 4th Edition, that's cool. This thread purposefully and decidedly is not to debate the editions. That is, if you don't like 4th Edition, this thread has nothing for you, but you're cool and deserve respect. Just like those who may be interested in 4th Edition also do..
(in other words, please cut Open Design and Wolfgang a break here)
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Wolfgang Baur of Open Design is tentatively planning to support 4th
Edition with a 4E Adventure entitled "Wrath of the River King."
Open Design projects are commissioned. For those unfamiliar with how it works, a donation is made through Paypal in order to become a 'Patron.' Once the required commission amount is met, Wolfgang starts to work on the project. Patrons are taken inside the process as
Wolfgang writes the adventure and solicits input and comments from Patrons while he does it. Patrons can literally influence the finished product with their feedback. They can also preview maps and art materials.
"Wrath of the River King" depends on being funded, and for the GSL to permit publication (which at this time looks quite optimistic). If for any reason that it can't be produced, a full refund of the donation will be given. The current understanding is that the finished adventure will not be published till October. You can donate any size amount you want. The current minimum donation is $30.00 for full access to the discussions and a PDF of the final product. Patrons with a donation of $100 or more will also gain access to a play test game Wolfgang will run at GenCon plus a print copy of the adventure, signed
by him.
This is a great way to learn about how 4E changes adventure design along side a professional who will be learning the system himself.
For more information on how it works, and discussion on the project
please see the Kobold Quarterly forum here : Kobold Quarterly Forums
Or Open Design's LiveJournal for more information: OD LJ
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SOME QUESTIONS ANSWERED
Zobeck?
My understanding is that this would be parallel to his 3.5 Projects. That is, Wrath of the River King would not be set in Zobeck, and would be independent of his 3.5 work (as required by the GSL, and subject to Wolfgang actually reviewing the GSL).
Donations less than $30.00?
Donations less than $30.00 will get you the full adventure in PDF format, but not allow you access to the discussions or Wolfgang's design essays.
Design Essays?
I forgot to mention those. With every Open Design Project Wolfgang writes a set number of design essays regarding Adventure Design. As in how to do design adventures! Tips from a pro!
What is it like?
On a side note, it's a little tricky to describe the process, but over the couple of months you get the opportunity to see how a professionally published adventure is designed, from start to finish. As parts of it get done, you can ask him about it and receive answers. You can make suggestions, bounce ideas, and you talk with all the other patrons. Patrons do have influence over the final product. The art and maps are of professional quality. Sometimes there are polls. It's pretty fun.. and for $30.00 you're still getting a full length adventure at the end of it. It is a PDF, but you're paying for more than just the adventure, and you really get what you put into the process with your own participation.
And this time, Wolfgang doesn't know the system any better than you do, so this one's going to be particularly interesting.. because an industry veteran has to take the hood off of the system and learn it alongside of you.
All I can say, if you have $30.00 to spend on an adventure, take a safe gamble and give Open Design a try. His second Open Design Project, Castle Shadowcrag, was an Ennie Winner...
PDF's make me sad, can I get a print copy with the PDF?
And yes.. Wolfgang confirms that there will be a print option through Lulu for those who want it! Usually just at the base price it costs Wolfgang.
Has somebody besides you ever done this, and can they tell me more?
I've been a patron of Open Design since the end of OD2 (Shadowcrag) and highly recommend it as an invaluable introspective into the industry. The patron discussion and design essays are very valuable in understanding the process of a veteran game designer. Patrons in the past have also had the ability to suggest things, including sometimes NPCs, encounters, or monsters for consideration, as well as the ability to participate in Playtesting. Patrons for past projects have also had the ability to suggest future projects as well.
I wonder how much influence a patron has on the process. Sure, just writing comments like "I dislike this" "This could run smoother" "The map is a little small here, maybe the room can be bigger" is one thing. But giving suggestions about the plot, NPCs, monsters, etc is more valuable to me than just refinement and constructive criticism.
Patrons have a TON of influence, especially in the early stages of the outline and early drafts. Lots of plot suggestions, monster ideas, and location/encounter wishes have become part of earlier Open Designs.
I've been really pleased with the thoughtful critique and the smart, smart choices that patrons have put forward. The polls and Q&A often generate fixes over the course of a conversation, or at least a stronger description of why the design might do A rather than B.
Give it a try!
Bump.
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This is a very cool idea, and I'm really thinking about participating. Even though I'm generally not the type to offer a lot of ideas, I still think it would be really interesting to see what others have to say, and see what will come of these new 4E rules.
Thanks for bringing this up, I probably wouldn't have noticed it otherwise!
Note: Your link to the Kobold Quarterly forums does not appear to be working.
EDIT: I'm actually kind of curious about the whole project... When did it begin? How many Open Design adventures have been made so far?
Director of Brand Strategy
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And this time, Wolfgang doesn't know the system any better than you do, so this one's going to be particularly interesting.. because an industry veteran has to take the hood off of the system and learn it alongside of you.
I wonder if he'd offer a patron discount to anyone who might have experience with 4e from playtesting or other such early access to the full rules...
Note: Your link to the Kobold Quarterly forums does not appear to be working.
Thanks!
EDIT: I'm actually kind of curious about the whole project... When did it begin? How many Open Design adventures have been made so far?
There have been (5) 3.5 Open Design Projects-
Steam and BrassCastle Shadowcrag - which one an Ennie
Empire of the Ghouls
Six Arabian Nights
Blood of the Gorgon - written by Nick Logue
The 6th 3.5 project is still being commissioned, and it's possible to get in on the ground floor of that one. In fact we're voting (through our Patronage) on which one we'd like to see. It started with three choices and have been whittled down to two. The pricing for OD6 is a little different but comparable.
This 4th Edition project is going to run concurrently with OD6.
One difference between the 3.5 projects and this 4th edition project is the exclusivity. The 3.5 projects, after a certain period, are not available to general public. They belong to Wolfgang and those who commissioned them. There is some forgiveness in that usually if you become a Patron, you can buy the previous project that you missed. Wolfgang can better address the ins and outs of that himself.
The 4th Edition Project won't be exclusive.
I wonder if he'd offer a patron discount to anyone who might have experience with 4e from playtesting or other such early access to the full rules...
That's outside of my sphere of knowledge. :)
He'd have to field that question himself.
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An exact answer to my question.
Thanks for the info, Watcher! I'm still unsure about the 4E adventure, (which I kind of feel guilty about, since it was the purpose of this thread) but if all goes well, I'll be joining in Open Design for the 6th 3.5 project; both of the current possibilities sounds exceedingly cool, and I think it'd be really interesting to get in from the get-go.
Who knows, though, maybe when June rolls around, I won't be able to resist the lure of new rulebooks and join in the 4E project anyway!
An exact answer to my question.Thanks for the info, Watcher! I'm still unsure about the 4E adventure, (which I kind of feel guilty about, since it was the purpose of this thread) but if all goes well, I'll be joining in Open Design for the 6th 3.5 project; both of the current possibilities sounds exceedingly cool, and I think it'd be really interesting to get in from the get-go.
Who knows, though, maybe when June rolls around, I won't be able to resist the lure of new rulebooks and join in the 4E project anyway!
Well, you have got some advantages there.. because to the best of my knowledge, Wolfgang won't have the 4E rules till the second week of June like the rest of us.. so he can't get too much work done without you!
And, OD6 is a good way to try it out now.. because the last I knew, it was halfway to being commissioned and going strong. There are three levels of Patronage in the 3.5 Projects. Supporter, Patron, and Senior Patron. I am a senior patron for Blood of Gorgon. That's not a small buy-in, I won't deny- but I have enjoyed it. And you can always start with regular patronage in OD6, and if a few weks later you decide to upgrade, you can do it. Access to Senior Patron stuff is retroactive once you upgrade. Some Senior Patrons have actually written some of their own stuff and gotten it in the modules, Wolfgang is really open minded about stuff like that, especially for the Seniors.
This project is very active, and gaining ground as people want to see a third party work with the new rules.
A very exciting development!
When is this bad boy getting off the ground? I want in!
Thanks for the pointer and information, Watcher.
Almost wish my donation came with a referral to you somehow :)
An extremely interesting and unique opportunity.
I hadn't noticed this before ... thank you for bringing it forward.
You know ... it's possible to be a Paizo patron and still support 4E. Yes, I know I'm hardly the first to mention that. Nor the last.
Indeed. I am a Paizo superscriber but I'm going to look at it. Admittedly I have less invested in 3.5 (it's mostly in Paizo Products!), so this isn't as hard of a decision for me.
But yeah.. there's nothing to say you can't support both.
Kobold Press
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I wonder if he'd offer a patron discount to anyone who might have experience with 4e from playtesting or other such early access to the full rules...
Yoda8myhead, I would certainly be interested in seeing a patron join who has extensive 4E knowledge. Email me at my first name at koboldquarterly.com.
Just an update here... This Project is 70% funded. The deadline to see it all the way funded is the end of June... to let people look at the system and the first published adventure.
Are you discontent with H1, because of the storyline, or other quality control issues?
Well, here's your opportunity to actually have input in the adventure that you receive. Participation in this program will allow you to preview the module before it's finished, and if you don't think something is up to snuff- you have a voice and the means to see it corrected. That's part of what Open Design is all about.
Recently Patrons have done some discussion about what level the adventure should be.. that isn't set in stone yet. We roughly decided the adventure should be between 4th and 7th level. WE DECIDE. :)
Seriously, H1 is $30. So is Wrath of the River King. The word count for Wrath will make it a meatier adventure, and it's going to have great art and great maps.. and you're going to have months of participation and lively discussion before it's over... and insight into the system alongside a Professional Writer and Judge of the RPG Superstar competition.
We just need a few more patrons to get this project fully realized.
4E with the high level of quality writing that you've come to expect from hanging around this community.
Still not enough?
Take a sneak peak at the awesome rough preliminary cover.
It doesn't get any better than this!
Want to ask Wolfgang or others a question about the project? You can also ask here
Just an update here... This Project is 70% funded. The deadline to see it all the way funded is the end of June... to let people look at the system and the first published adventure.
...
Want to ask Wolfgang or others a question about the project? You can also ask here
I've been a member of the OpenDesign projects since #3, and scooped up #2 when offered the chance. I've gotten to create NPCs, playtest, see my suggestions implemented. This is more than just another product, it's an opportunity to watch a craftsman at work and add your two cents. Where else do you get that chance?
-Ben.