In the third book the players can take on the role of Blackjack. How would the people of Korvosa react if Blacjack all of a sudden went from being a human-like hero to the size of a halfling, gnome, or dwarf? Any thoughts on how this new "blackjack" can be handled for non human/elf races.
Creative Director
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In the third book the players can take on the role of Blackjack. How would the people of Korvosa react if Blacjack all of a sudden went from being a human-like hero to the size of a halfling, gnome, or dwarf? Any thoughts on how this new "blackjack" can be handled for non human/elf races.
They'd think that the "new" blackjack was an imposter, and thus a short Blackjack would have to take a lot of time proving himself to the people that even though he's obviously a different race, he's still the same type of hero to the downtrodden. I'd say that it'd take something like 3 to 4 public displays of heroism before the new shorter Blackjack persona "takes" to the public.
Ah thanks James. Always appreciate your help.
A big thank you from me as well. The most likely character to take on the persona of Blackjack in my group is a halfling, and I was wondering how I would handle that if it came to pass.
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Director of Brand Strategy
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In the third book the players can take on the role of Blackjack. How would the people of Korvosa react if Blacjack all of a sudden went from being a human-like hero to the size of a halfling, gnome, or dwarf? Any thoughts on how this new "blackjack" can be handled for non human/elf races.They'd think that the "new" blackjack was an imposter, and thus a short Blackjack would have to take a lot of time proving himself to the people that even though he's obviously a different race, he's still the same type of hero to the downtrodden. I'd say that it'd take something like 3 to 4 public displays of heroism before the new shorter Blackjack persona "takes" to the public.
Always nice to find more opportunities to call for a perform check. It's a shame how rarely those get used by non-bards.
Should be interesting when we get to that AP as well. Most likely Blackjack will become female as 3 out of 5 of my players are women and the guys almost never play rogues :)
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I've got two candidates; a ranger and a rogue. but, the rogue's player is an assassin-type guy, not exactly robin hood, you know? He's going to go selfish theif. And I doubt he wants to develop his character into CG. the ranger in NG, but bow-wielding; so Blackjack's image will have to change a little bit, into a trick-shotting griffin-riding batman.
I keep having this vision of an entire party of Blackjacks...
Our party bought hats of disguise for *everyone* surprisingly early on. So they have all sorts of odd possibilities: "Why don't you be Blackjack in Old Korvosa while I'm Blackjack in Northpoint?"
I forsee a funny scene where they have split up and done this, and then unexpectedly run into each other. --If they have any interest in being Blackjack at all, which is not currently clear.
Mary
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Speaking of Blackjack, I was thinking having more Blackjack encounters with the PCs before they finally get the chance to don the equipment. They've only really met Blackjack once, which was during the execution debacle. I think having the PCs meet/see the masked vigilante in action at least one or two more times would help to establish his presence and air of mystery. That way, when/if the PCs see the Blackjack outfit, they'll react to it more; instead of, "Who's Blackjack again?"
Any ideas on when to throw in more Blackjack appearances? What's he doing during Seven Days to the Grave?
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A big thank you from me as well. The most likely character to take on the persona of Blackjack in my group is a halfling, and I was wondering how I would handle that if it came to pass.
I think it would be kind of funny for a halfling to take up the mantle, get a little resistance or disbelief from the public, and then have some old NPC tell the PCs "All these people today think they know who Blackjack is. Shucks. Back in my grandpappy's day, Blackjack was a dwarf for 6 years, and before that he was a she for 10 if it was a day. A woman, I tell 'ee! Blackjack's always been any people what got the fire to take up the mask to help the folk of Korvosa. And that's the plum truth!"
I was going to suggest that among Blackjack's possessions there could be a ring, too tiny to fit onto the finger of a Medium or larger creature. But if donned by a Small or smaller creature, it functions as a ring of Enlarge Person. It could be tuncked into a pocket, sealed in a yellowed envelope with someone's name inscribed on it - and that was the name of the halfling or gnome who was Blackjack for a time, many years ago.
One possible candidate - Tepest Geezlebottle, of Theumanexus, when he was much younger. "Oh, yes, that was back before I ran into that vampire in Ustalav and forgot how to do all that jumping-around stuff. Decided just to stick with wizarding after that, but you should have seen me in those days..."
I think it would be kind of funny for a halfling to take up the mantle, get a little resistance or disbelief from the public, and then have some old NPC tell the PCs "All these people today think they know who Blackjack is. Shucks. Back in my grandpappy's day, Blackjack was a dwarf for 6 years, and before that he was a she for 10 if it was a day. A woman, I tell 'ee! Blackjack's always been any people what got the fire to take up the mask to help the folk of Korvosa. And that's the plum truth!"
But I think Bill's idea is funnier.
Both Bill and Cintra have great ideas. Will have to keep those in mind. Long live Blackjack, and down with the queen!
If a party member is missing and Blackjack starts running around with the party then everyone will know who Blackjack is
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If a party member is missing and Blackjack starts running around with the party then everyone will know who Blackjack is
Yup, I would class that as a "Player being an idiot" scenario :P. If it doesn't seem like whoever wants to be blackjack is going to have the sense to be discrete about their masked antics and only step in as Blackjack when it would be appropriate, then I'd have Vencarlo lecture them at length about the subject, they're carrying a centuries old persona, they should be discouraged from messing it up :). I've played in a couple of games where a party member has a secret identity that involved being some kind of masked crusader (or gentleman thief in one case), it can be really good fun trying to keep their tie to the party secret.
I was quite excited by the Blackjack link and the possibility of someone taking up his mantle. while we are still wading through the Rise of the Runelords, when we get to this AP I may very well be guiding one or two characters down the blackjack route when they are created.
Down with the Queen!
Both Bill and Cintra have great ideas. Will have to keep those in mind. Long live Blackjack, and down with the queen!DOWN WITH THE QUEEN!
:D
And here's a message from the Queen, courtesy of your local friendly grey maidens: "OFF WITH THEIR HEADS!"
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Contributor
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And here's a message from the Queen, courtesy of your local friendly grey maidens: "OFF WITH THEIR HEADS!"Both Bill and Cintra have great ideas. Will have to keep those in mind. Long live Blackjack, and down with the queen!DOWN WITH THE QUEEN!
:D
D'oh! >_<
THIS TYRANNY CANNOT STAND! SAVE KORVOSA! DOWN WITH THE QUEEN!!!
New question onto this one. I didn't feel like creating a new thread.
What type of mask does Blackjack have?
The one drawing we have looks like a mask over the nose and mouth, looking bandanna like. But I keep thinking of a Zorro like mask, cowl like or mask like that. (keep in mind I can see he is not at all Zorro like ;) )
And on that thought, would it hurt to add a masterwork whip to the Blackjack items.
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Creative Director
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Having just read Pathfinder #10, with the PCs leaving Korvosa and not intending to come back until PF #12, I could see a solo campaign with the PC playing Blackjack unhampered by concerns of being identified. An ambitious DM with the right players could have the rest of the party follow the AP as written, while writing solo adventures for one PC making the Queen's life difficult in Korvosa.
That's actually a really cool idea. I'd wait until you have #12 in hand to try something like this, though, since there's an encounter in #12 that would work GREAT as a climax to this solo campaign spin-off...
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In the third book the players can take on the role of Blackjack. How would the people of Korvosa react if Blacjack all of a sudden went from being a human-like hero to the size of a halfling, gnome, or dwarf? Any thoughts on how this new "blackjack" can be handled for non human/elf races.
It's a good question, especially if the campaign is played with the iconics provided. Reading p. 34 of "Edge of Anarchy", of the four, Lem is the clear choice.
interestingly, in the CotCt I am running with a Co-DM it looks like our blackjack is going to be a Female cleric of Cayden Cailean (god of freedom, wine, and bravery),we are still in edge of anarchy, and here she is a happy go lucky partying priest, i think though (knowing the player)that she will come into her own in seven days to the grave, i cant wait to see!
I know it's a very old topic, I hope there are still people around ^^'
The main character in my campaign to fit blackjack criteria is probably a (woman) elf wizard. The other characters tend to be loyal/neutral/evil. The elf wizard cares sinecrely for Korvosans (and is engaged in a romantic relationship with Vencarlo)
I am a bit unsure, but would it makes sense to propose her to take over the Blackjack's coat?
I saw a couple of quite original Blackjacks here above, but I'm afraid mine is the only one not able to use a rapier. I also don't know if the player is ready to multiclass or not.
Fyi, the party is a gang composed of:
- the elf wizard (the boss of the ganf)
- a ranger (older than Vencarlo himself)
- a rogue (evil loyal, more involved in gang stuff than helping people)
- a changeling assassin loyal to the queen (with his loyal being highly challenged those days...) - this could totally be an option actually. It's just that the mindset of the character is not so much of a zorro/robin hood.
- a cleric of Pharasma(caring mosty about necro and undead around)
Do you have any advices?
Well as an Elf, she is automatically proficient with the rapier, unless she gave that up for a different racial trait. That said, there are many "rapier-like weapons" including if the wizard goes into "the magic sword spells" and fights like that, especially when she's fighting against the low level criminals/do-badders in a post campaign sense.
Additionally, Blackjack in the Guide to Korvosa books is rumored to be an elf because of the fact he has been around since nearly the beginning of the city, so it actually becoming an elf is perfectly fine. Vencarlo himself isn't very attached to the "male" tradition by the book and with the addition of a cloak it can be kinda hard to tell the exact silhouette of black on black to notice the shift from kinda ripped male human to female elf. Even further, depending on the wizard's specialization/forbidden schools, she might be able to just look like old Blackjack in the cloak or otherwise further obfuscate her presence to avoid being too obviously different at first (like with Todd in El Camino).
The assassin is a good alternate, especially if they have a breaking moment for their loyalties. Vencarlo by the time of book 3 end, book 4 start's transition can be a major guide to reshaping the changeling's loyalties. (It might be a too late to change or a case of intentionally trans character, but in lore, changelings are supposed to only be females, as they are literally the children of witches/hags. You *might* still run into the same in character complication of "this character physically looks nothing like Blackjack", which again shouldn't be a deal breaker but I think to go the opposite route and ignore Vencarlo's point of being fine with the discrepancy is worse than just handing it over like there was no discrepancy for the elf or the changeling.)
Personally, I have Trinia always act as the back up incase no one in the party fits or wants it. She has had time with Jasan to learn his and Vencarlo's philosophy, she can have had training for the brief time she was in Vencarlo's care before hand for how to defend herself. She goes on an adventure on her own before meeting the PCs again so she is clearly capable, and as a bard she is almost always just valuable to the PCs to take with, unless the party has their own bard. (Plus she is an adorable romantic partner, maybe even for your campaign a perfect foil to a formerly loyal assassin.)
Where exactly are you in the campaign now?
@AwesomenessDog
We are starting the third book this weekend. Agendas issues made us very slow on the second book, I hope we'll be back on the same rhythm as for the first book. So, normally, I don't need to take any decision before a few games.
Thank you very much for the detailed answer. I think you're right, Vencarlo is fine with the discrepancy, and it's perfect like this.
I will keep those 3 options in mind (the elf wizard boss, the confused-loyalty-assassin and Trinia). Let's see how the PCs will react to the offer. If I have to pick something myself for Vencarlo to approach a character, I would probably go for the elf. She expressed a few time a sincere commitment to Korvosan people, which probably the main point.
And indeed, I am looking forward to bringing Trinia back!
Now I have 3 options :) Thank you very much!
@Majestik Moose:
What a nice idea xD I should have a look ;)
The PCs refused politely Vencarlo's offer :'( They show no interested in helping people. Neither the elf boss, neither the confused-loyalty-assassin, so...
Trinia is the next Blackjack :)
I have a similar problem in that no one in my players' party is a good candidate for becoming Blackjack. :(
The CN male dwarf Druid (goliath), from out of town and with no connection with the city?
The CN female halfling Witch, an orphan with emotional issues plus a history of drug abuse?
The NG female half-orc Cleric of Sarenrae, an orphan who's more interested in blasting people with Fireballs and the like - and recieved a dream lecture from a servant of Sarenrae after using Fireball in a hospital ward?
The CG male halfling Bard/Harrower, an orphan who is half the weight of a normal halfling (due to a flaw)?
The players already did their best to divorce their characters from any connections with the city, and none of them are what I'd call a martial character.
So the new Blackjack will be either the Bard's new cohort (after the campaign ends) or Trinia Sabor.
The PCs refused politely Vencarlo's offer :'( They show no interested in helping people. Neither the elf boss, neither the confused-loyalty-assassin, so...
Trinia is the next Blackjack :)
What is the player's motives for still being in this campaign if not helping people? o.O
Well Trinia can definitely make a good BlackJack. I actually have a (slightly GM priveledged) build for the future Blackjack Trinia to keep up with a potentially powerbuilt party if you want it for her.
I have a similar problem in that no one in my players' party is a good candidate for becoming Blackjack. :(
The CN male dwarf Druid (goliath), from out of town and with no connection with the city?
The CN female halfling Witch, an orphan with emotional issues plus a history of drug abuse?
The NG female half-orc Cleric of Sarenrae, an orphan who's more interested in blasting people with Fireballs and the like - and recieved a dream lecture from a servant of Sarenrae after using Fireball in a hospital ward?
The CG male halfling Bard/Harrower, an orphan who is half the weight of a normal halfling (due to a flaw)?The players already did their best to divorce their characters from any connections with the city, and none of them are what I'd call a martial character.
So the new Blackjack will be either the Bard's new cohort (after the campaign ends) or Trinia Sabor.
Yeah... it really sucks to run this campaign with just a bunch of "my OC is more important than the plot" players because this is one of the few campaigns where there is plot to support really good characters. I all but strap my players into their chairs to help come up with characters that fit with the city and can be given some of the major story beats as personal moments for their characters, specifically to avoid this issue. And while I don't mean to imply you can't have originality or the player can't write their own character concept, but you can subtly change names or places of a backstory to marry them with the city and the long standing plot elements that develop through the campaign.
What is the player's motives for still being in this campaign if not helping people?
They have various motives:
- to help/rescue NPC they know personnaly,- revenge sometimes
- or to have more power as a gang.
- Or sometimes just money or reward.
They are ok with helping for personnal interest let's say, but not ok becomming Blackjack. They don't want to help the widow and the orphan.
Even if they are evil PC, it's their town (their friends and families live there). They will not stay quiet and look at the queen destroying all they have accomplished.
It gives me a bit of effort to adapt the hooks, but all in all, it works.
They absolutely wanted to play neutral/evil characters, but at least they all have strong connections with the NPC, the city and the story ^^'
So Trinia will be the next blackjack.
Well Trinia can definitely make a good BlackJack. I actually have a (slightly GM priveledged) build for the future Blackjack Trinia to keep up with a potentially powerbuilt party if you want it for her.
Thank you very much, but we are using DnD 5e rules. We had beginners and veterans at the table, and we decided to try something 'in between'.
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Well Trinia can definitely make a good BlackJack. I actually have a (slightly GM priveledged) build for the future Blackjack Trinia to keep up with a potentially powerbuilt party if you want it for her.
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I would be interested in seeing that build (assuming that it's for PF1).
This is going with the party and expanded leveling to 20, so cohorts get to reach 17; we also run EitR. And to be fair, it's not anything truly out there, but basically she is a straight bard, 10/16/14/12/8/18 stats by level 17 before items (10/16/13/12/8/16 at level 7 when she joins the party), ultimately giving her 22 Dex and 24 Cha. The part that is unique/from BlackJack training her is that she can essentially qualify for a modified crane-style that instead of needing IUS, just uses the sword in a freehand fencing style and allowing her to use her Perform (comedy) to count for Martial Performance (light blades).
Feats:
1: Spell Focus (enchantment), Weapon Focus (rapier)
3: Dodge
5: Crane Style
7: Greater Spell Focus (enchantment)
9: Weapon Specialization (rapier)
11: Crane Wing
13: Crane Riposte
15: Ability Focus (bardic performance)
17: Greater Weapon Focus (rapier)
Spells: (self buff spells that are relevant are bolded)
0: Daze (Will 19), Detect Magic, Know Direction, Light, Mage Hand, Mending, Message, Prestidigitation, Read Magic
1 (5/day): Charm Person (Will 20), Cultural Adaptation, Cure Light Wounds, Detect Charm, Feather Fall, Fumbletounge (Will 20), Hideous Laughter (Will 20), Heightened Awareness, Identify
2 (5/day): Bladed Dash, Blur, Cat's Grace, Cure Moderate Wounds, Eagle's Splendor, Invisibility, Minor Image (Will 19), Shamefully Overdressed (Will 21), Suggestion (Will 21)
3 (5/day): Confuse (Will 22), Cure Serious Wounds, Displacement, Good Hope, Haste, Purging Finale, Slow (DC 20), Smug Narcissism (Will 22)
4 (4/day): Bountiful Banquet, Cure Critical Wounds, Dance of a Hundred Cuts, Echolocation, Mass Daze (Will 23), Serenity (Will 23), Song of Healing, Virtuoso Performance
5 (4/day): Bard's Escape, Compelling Rant (Will 24), Frozen Punchline, Greater Bladed Dash, Greater Heroism, Joyful Rapture, Mislead
6 (2/day): Dance of a Thousand Cuts, Getaway, Irresistible Dance (Will 25)
She can aid the party and herself with inspire courage, and when she isn't needed as a front line inspire greatness, but when she needs to go toe-to-toe on her own, she can self buff with inspire heroics. Assuming the party has equipped her reasonably in line with a cohort of her level, and with all buffs on, her offensive and defensive stats while using crane wing are as follows:
AC 10 +8 (+4 mithral chainshirt) +4 (+3 buckler) +6 Dex +14 dodge (+1 feat +4 fighting defensively +4 crane wing +1 haste +4 inspire Heroics) +5 Dance of a Hundred Cuts +3 natural +4 deflect = 54; 39 Touch; 34 Flat-Footed
Offensive:
+12 BAB +6 Dex +5 rapier +5 Inspire Courage (with Dervish Sikke) +1 Haste +5 Dance of a Hundred Cuts +2 Greater Weapon Focus -1 Fighting Defensively = +35
Damage = 1d6 +6 agile +5 enchantment +2 Weapon Specialization +5 inspire courage +5 dance of a hundred cuts
+5 agile rapier +35/+35/+30/+25 (1d6+23/18-20)
Now, she's still not the end all be all of frontliners, but she can hold her own in a fight of attrition and has plenty of spells for mix-ups, especially against low Will save targets. Certainly enough to keep her place in a level 20 party, and should be fine too as a level 15 in a normal level 17 campaign.
This is going with the party and expanded leveling to 20, so cohorts get to reach 17; we also run EitR. And to be fair, it's not anything truly out there, but basically she is a straight bard, 10/16/14/12/8/18 stats by level 17 before items (10/16/13/12/8/16 at level 7 when she joins the party), ultimately giving her 22 Dex and 24 Cha. The part that is unique/from BlackJack training her is that she can essentially qualify for a modified crane-style that instead of needing IUS, just uses the sword in a freehand fencing style and allowing her to use her Perform (comedy) to count for Martial Performance (light blades).
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Thank you for those stats!
One question: what is "EitR"? I'm drawing a blank on that abbreviation. (Or maybe it's just too late in the evening for me.)
Elephant in the Room, its an alternate feat system that tries to deal with feat taxes like power attack, combat expertise, etc.