A Fix for the Heal SKill and Healing Rules

[quest-master]

For Treat Deadly Wounds, you heal a wounded character 1 hp per level and never more than once per day.

The following changes may be realistic and game-improving to implement in addition to Treat Deadly Wounds.

Normally heal the characters by up to 1/4 the damage taken from a recent battle if they rest for at least one minute (10 rounds) within one hour afterwards and once per battle aftermath.
In very long battles, a character could leave the field of engagement for a while to rest and recover from fatigue before re-entering the combat. In this case the healing is administered once per individual engagement in combat instead.

Treat Recent Wounds: Increase this healing limit to 1/2 the damage taken from a recent battle with a successful Heal check.

A lot of good adventures include more than one combat encounter so this would give the party less dependence on a magical healer and magic items that heal damage in a way that doesn't lack credibility and doesn't copy the surges of 4.0.

[Archimedes Mavranos]

I was very pleased to see Paizo included Treat Deadly Wounds in the heal skill. Thanks Paizo for giving consideration to our humble opinions.

I really loved how the healing kit ties in to treating wounds. I must say I was a little disappointed, however, as I don't find this version of Treat Deadly Wounds as useful as I had hoped. In the game I run at home, the party's 4th level Cleric (Wis 16) has a heal skill of +10 and has a good chance to heal characters for 4 damage once per day (but it takes an hour, and the DC 20 base DC seems a little high). Considering that the fighter has something like 42 hit points, this doesn't seem very useful. Granted, the new healing from channeling helps reduce the need for Treat Deadly Wounds, it's a nice supplement. I have seen some other good variants for Treat Deadly Wounds on the boards. My personal version is:

Treat Deadly Wounds: With a successful heal check DC 15 it restores 1d4 hit points to a character. By every 5 points for which the check exceeds the DC it heals an additional 1d4 damage. Treat Deadly Wounds can only be used on each character once after each combat and cannot heal more damage than the character received in that combat. Treat Deadly Wounds takes 1 minute to perform.

My cleric at 4th level then heals on average 2d4 damage (~5) per encounter. This may be a lot at level 1 but drops off as play advances (plus using up charges in the healing kit will help limit abuse, I will be adding this to my homebrew). Just wanted to offer MHO. Thanks for all the great work Paizo!

[anthony Valente]

This was a great discussion in the Alpha 1 message boards. I'm glad our input was taken and a version added into Alpha 2. I'm also glad Quest-Master started a thread to provide feedback.

I can see a point to making the use of treat deadly wounds once per day. But I did not realize that it took an hour. That really isn't too big of a deal, but it does seem a bit long. Also, I feel the 5 uses of a healer's kit makes it seem not worth it. What is the reasoning behind it? Is it a money thing I wonder? Perhaps somewhere between 2-4 uses are expended?

I do however like how you take a penalty if you lack the full number of healer's kit uses. Does this mean that you can perform the check, albeit at a -10 penalty without a healer's kit?

I assume that you cannot take 20 on the check, but what about taking 10? Should this be possible?

One more thing... I think it would be better if it were written that for each use of the healer's kit that you lack, the DC increases by 2 (instead of taking a penalty to the check).

Thoughts?

[Todd Johnson]

Since there is no chance of disaster or harmful affect if you fail, I see no reason, going by the original SRD rules, that you couldn't take 20 on the check. That is the basic guideline for whether you can take 20 or not. Though, with the check taking an hour, that would mean you would multiply the time by the corresponding amount.

I personally see no reason why this couldn't take less time. The whole abstraction of hit points is that most of the points once you pass 1st level aren't actually physical damage to the character anyway. I would think spending a little time tending wounds and administering care would restore a bit of endurance and will to the patient.

Besides, Neverwinter Nights has had healing capabilities built into the heal skill, and let it cost a round of time, for years now, I don't see that any major imbalance has come out of the few points you get from the skill, rather just one more way for characters to survive, especially at lower levels.

[Thraxus]

I would leave the time at 1 hour, set the DC back to 15, and allow the recovery of either twice the creature's HD/Level in hit points or the creature's HD/level plus the healer's ranks in the Heal skill. This function would still be usable only once per day.

This allows for a bit of battlefield healing when setting up camp without expending magical healing (in case you get attack in the night).

[Phantasm]

Thraxus wrote:

I would leave the time at 1 hour, set the DC back to 15, and allow the recovery of either twice the creature's HD/Level in hit points or the creature's HD/level plus the healer's ranks in the Heal skill. This function would still be usable only once per day.

This allows for a bit of battlefield healing when setting up camp without expending magical healing (in case you get attack in the night).

i like setting the DC back down to 15, but otherwise i like how the Treat Deadly Wounds skill is set up. 1hp/level of the wounded creature + a possible bonus of the healer's wisdom modifier seems pretty fair in lieu of magical healing. Though i think burning through half of a healing kit is a bit much, i dont see any reason it should take more than one use of a kit. The penalty without it should stay as is however.

[Thraxus]

Phantasm wrote:

Thraxus wrote:

I would leave the time at 1 hour, set the DC back to 15, and allow the recovery of either twice the creature's HD/Level in hit points or the creature's HD/level plus the healer's ranks in the Heal skill. This function would still be usable only once per day.

This allows for a bit of battlefield healing when setting up camp without expending magical healing (in case you get attack in the night).

i like setting the DC back down to 15, but otherwise i like how the Treat Deadly Wounds skill is set up. 1hp/level of the wounded creature + a possible bonus of the healer's wisdom modifier seems pretty fair in lieu of magical healing. Though i think burning through half of a healing kit is a bit much, i dont see any reason it should take more than one use of a kit. The penalty without it should stay as is however.

True, at one hp/level it is equal to a night's rest. I also agree that 5 uses is steep for the benefit. Maybe 2 uses and you get the +2 bonus to the check. Without the healer's kit you cannot treat deadly wounds. This would also set up for a "masterwork" healer's kit (chirurgeon's kit) that has 20 "charges."

[anthony Valente]

I think one thing to keep in mind is that using the heal skill to "treat deadly wounds" is meant for groups without a cleric to have a modest way to heal. The 5 uses of a healer's kit per check really puts a damper on it's effectiveness under these circumstances. I also do not agree that it should be impossible to perform the check if a healer's kit is unavailable... it shoud have a steep penalty however.

I also do not agree that the DC should be set at 15. I like the 20 DC. But I would not complain if the DC did indeed become 15. At most, it should use up 2 uses of a healer's kit. The loss of 5 uses is a bit steep if you were to fail.

From a money perspective: a healer's kit costs 50 gold pieces.
A 1st level character, would gain 1 hp + a possible Wis modifier (not likely if the DC is 20). That's a bad investment at low level. At high levels, the check becomes almost automatic. Hence it becomes a good investment.

[Pathos]

Todd Johnson wrote:

Since there is no chance of disaster or harmful affect if you fail, I see no reason, going by the original SRD rules, that you couldn't take 20 on the check. That is the basic guideline for whether you can take 20 or not. Though, with the check taking an hour, that would mean you would multiply the time by the corresponding amount.

Personally, I would nix any idea of "taking 20" with this skill usage, considering you are using up recourses (5 uses from a Healer's Kit). A Healer's Kit will only take you so far after a series of failed checks.