Metamagic Mastery


Combat & Magic


(I accidentally originally posted this in the General discussion area, I relaized it should go here.)

The 8th level ability given to universal school specialist wizards needs some clerification. How does this ability work with Sudden maetmagic spells.

My friends and I were making characters to test out pathfinder and one person choose a Universal wizard. When looking at her character build she laughed evily realizing that she could use this ability to sudden quicken 10 extra spells a day (she was 10th level.) I read it and inturpited it that "no she can't", a 3rd person read it and said that she should have to use "extra uses" as if using the normal quicken spell feat...

We all agreed that this ability needs clearification on how it works (or dosent work) with Sudden metamagic feats. I would suggest this be addresses in one of the upcomming revisions.

Thanks


Well, reading it strictly, she would be able to use it 5 times a day (they´ve updated to release 1.1 where it´s once/2 levels) though I don´t think that was planned as so; it was probably a gap; as it would indeed get too much powerful.

The Sudden feats can be used once a day each, that is part of the feat functionality; although I allow a player to take more of the same one (if someone takes 2 Sudden Maximize I think it´s fair to let him use twice). So, as a suggestion, why not let her use it one more time per day? Until we get an official answer, it´s a way to let the ability of her character come in use and keep the game balance.

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Companion, Pawns Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

The Sudden metamagic feats do not affect spells directly, and thus cannot be used with Metamagic Mastery.


Shisumo wrote:
The Sudden metamagic feats do not affect spells directly, and thus cannot be used with Metamagic Mastery.

Could you clarify that? It doesn't effect the spell because it says "may apply the effect of..." right? But its still a metamagic feat so it seems like you'd be able use it with mastery.

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Companion, Pawns Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber
V wrote:
Shisumo wrote:
The Sudden metamagic feats do not affect spells directly, and thus cannot be used with Metamagic Mastery.
Could you clarify that? It doesn't effect the spell because it says "may apply the effect of..." right? But its still a metamagic feat so it seems like you'd be able use it with mastery.

The Sudden feats have no effect that can be applied to a spell. Instead, they affect the character, giving the character the ability to apply the effect to the spell. But Metamagic Mastery only allows you to apply a metamagic feat to a spell directly. Since the Sudden feats have no relevant effects, they cannot be used with MM - or at least, not to any effect.


That makes sense. I could see people making a case for it the other way since it can read that way though so i'm hoping official word comes in on it.


Another problem with Metamagic Mastery: can a Wizard apply a metamagic effect to a spell whose level would ordinarily be too high to gain the metamagic effect from his metamagic feat? A similar problem arose with the Divine Metamagic feat (from Complete Divine), which gave the possibilty to "burn" Turn Undead attempts to cast a metamagic spell without changing the spell slot, and the official answer from the FAQs was "YES", giving even an example of a 9th level cleric casting an Empowered Flame Strike with the feat - normally an 8th level spell !
This was obviously an horrible broken ability, and I hope this is not the case for Metamagic Mastery too (Universalists already have too many advantages, IMHO...).
Any official anwer ? I truly hope that a Wizard MUST still be able to spend the slot where the metamagic spell would go, but instead of spending it he uses the Metamagic Mastery feature. No 17th level Wizards who can cast Quickened Stilled Silent Time Stop (15th level spell), please !!!

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