I like the artwork except for many of the Seoni images. Yeah, she's eye-candy, but stop overemphasizing her "assets" some of the images look more fit for 'playboy' or 'girls gone wild' than a professionally published RPG module. I'm perfectly fine with some of the chainmail-bikini trend but my puritanical roots cry out n disgust against such images as that found on page 36. Such images are fine and appropriate in a prostitution context (rakshasa and haram for example) but when applied to an "iconic" they're just gratuitous and innapropriate.
Its not anime...Its World of Warcraft.
Im not being insulting. Lately WoW had been used to insult stuff on these boards. I know this. But WoW is cool. Its a fun game IMHO.
Anyway the guys at Paizo like WoW to. Night Elves are excessivly tall and a bit to muscular than what we are familiar with when we think of Tolkien-esque elves. They also have the "Anime elf ears" also known as "Deedlit ears" or "Donkey ears". (Ok yes the elves ears are anime and WoW)
In WoW gnomes have funny colored hair. Blue and pink are viable choices.
So yes some of the PC races are inspired by WoW in the Pathfinder Campaign setting.
Having said all that. I just dont like the art. Its all angular and doesnt have much detail (look at the toes for example).
Considering the point of putting them all in their underwear is so you can see the anotomy, the artist used for the lineup is someone who doesnt draw in detail.
Unfortunatly..I have to agree about Seoni.
I like her personally, but I printed up the Pathfinder Alpha and gave it to a friend to check out. He plays D&D but knows noting of Pathfinder.
His first reaction was to laugh at the boobs on the cover. "Yeah these Pathfinder guys are real professionals."
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I think all the artwork is beautiful. The 'races' artwork is a cool style and I love the way it looks. I had someone in my group comment about Seoni's drawings saying that "if all the men are supposed to be buff and cut visions of fitness, then why can't the women be extremely beautiful..." and I agree. Dieties and Demigods from the 80s had full-frontal nudity in it. I don't have a problem with exagerated boob/nip action.
My one critique on the art style is that I would like to see consistancy. The 'races' art doesn't match the rest of the book. I also understand that this is the first run of the Alpha set, and that some art may have been used as placeholders or for the convenience of it already being existing art (the 'races' art comes from Pathfinder's players guide and most other stuff comes from existing Pathfinder stuff). I am sure that when finished, the art style will all corresponde and look great.
I also understand that this is the first run of the Alpha set, and that some art may have been used as placeholders
I should hope its only placeholders. If art in reused in the final product Id be a bit dissapointed.
Only exception is the iconics representing each class. Those I dont mind seeing reprinted in the final hardcover.
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Night Elves are excessivly tall and a bit to muscular than what we are familiar with when we think of Tolkien-esque elves. They also have the "Anime elf ears" also known as "Deedlit ears" or "Donkey ears". (Ok yes the elves ears are anime and WoW)
The elf ears remind me of Drew Hayes' work on 'Poison Elves' (Sirius Comics).
As an avid manga conniseur, the races section ain't manga. It shows more in common with Mangwa (korean equivalent) and even more with Amerimanga, our local interpretation. Reminds me of the some of the early stuff done by Dreamwave comics.
And before someone says its all the same, try eating japanese, korean, and american food and tell me it all tastes the same.
There. I had to put in my nerdy 2 cents.
But yeah, lots of WoW influence there. Which I don't think is a bad thing. Or a good thing. Its just there. If it makes the game more accessible to non-D&Ders, that works for me.
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I like the artwork except for many of the Seoni images. Yeah, she's eye-candy, but stop overemphasizing her "assets" some of the images look more fit for 'playboy' or 'girls gone wild' than a professionally published RPG module. I'm perfectly fine with some of the chainmail-bikini trend but my puritanical roots cry out n disgust against such images as that found on page 36. Such images are fine and appropriate in a prostitution context (rakshasa and haram for example) but when applied to an "iconic" they're just gratuitous and innapropriate.
I agree. Well actually no not really.
They should start overemphasizing draconic assets. I want to see 'Dragons gone wild: Too hot to handle'. }; P
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I should hope its only placeholders. If art in reused in the final product Id be a bit dissapointed. Only exception is the iconics representing each class. Those I dont mind seeing reprinted in the final hardcover.
James said in another thread the Iconics would be all over the PRPG. It's alright, WOTC has it's cast of heroes too, they just never did much beyond a couple generic novels with them.
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I should hope its only placeholders. If art in reused in the final product Id be a bit dissapointed. Only exception is the iconics representing each class. Those I dont mind seeing reprinted in the final hardcover.James said in another thread the Iconics would be all over the PRPG. It's alright, WOTC has it's cast of heroes too, they just never did much beyond a couple generic novels with them.
I actually like the pathfinder iconics. Still I don't need to see them constantly no matter how much it boosts the designers egos.
I loathed the WoTC iconics with a passion. They where badly drawn, look at the freaky elf chick. Also Regdar I believe it was become a punching bag in art. I think it was WoTC's childish way of expressing their displeasure with a certain designer... }; )
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I never cared for the style of the artist who did the races lineup (and most of the other artwork for RotRL). As far as general direction though, I love the elf ears, but hate the muscles. The Shalelu picture from Hook Mountain Massacre was perfect, as is Merisiel, just make Elven male more in that flavor (tall, slender) they should be able to be as fast and strong as humans without being as bulky. Like Vulcans.
I thought the art was very well done; I much preferred it over much of the art in the Corebooks. I guess I'm saying I like the art direction better, too.
Seoni rocks. Ignore the crazy talk above...more Seoni!
But yeah, some of her umm....assets...might need a little less emphasis. Maybe.
Arnold Tsang did the racial line-up (click his name for his deviantART page).
As is evident from his art page he's certainly capable of doing a lot of other styles and I'm saddened that he chose to use this particular angular style for pretty much all the Pathfinder art he has done.
I find it particularly... well, repulsive is a very strong word, but I certainly dislike it to a great extent.
So here's my personal appeal to Mr. Tsang:
Please don't use this style any more in the Pathfinder commissions that are coming your way.
Edit:
Although it looks like the editors forgot to credit him in the Alpha Playtest document. :-D
I like the artwork on that picture, and I think it's good for paizo to embrace many styles, I for one hated the art on the Savage Tide adventure path, but I know many people liked it.
Also, I agree that the picture on pg36 is just a little bit bleh. I don't mind Seoni, not at all, love her in fact, but its just. Well, nothing special really.
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The problem is that artists are perverts, and Wayne's image of Seoni is all too enticing. That worm's eye "bottom of the boob job" shot of Seoni in the Alpha is pretty lame, and I don't anticipate it will survive too much longer.
Awww I like it, but then I've been accused of being a pervert as well. I'm a big Luis Royo fan. }; )
Pretty tame in comparison isn't it?
Seoni is, and should be, sexy. 14-year-old boys should look at her and pant. That's her role, and it is a valued on in fantasy. I would hate to see her toned down even 1 degree.
We need *other* strong female character in action poses as well, of course. I'd love to see the iconic cleric (page 8) actually fighting, jumping, and adventuring. And, we need a female warrior in plate mail.
P-L-A-T-E M-A-I-L. Not heavy chain. Not a few bits of armor inspired by the movie <i>Heavy Metal</i>. Real, honest-to-Arthur plate mail.
And we need to see her more than once.
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The races artwork is recycled from the Rise of the Runelords player's guide, and I remember some comments about 'fast artistry' they used when putting that together (and also effecting Shalelu's ears...).
I bet they might wind up recommissioning the races lineup before the final print next August.
-DM Jeff
We need *other* strong female character in action poses as well, of course. I'd love to see the iconic cleric (page 8) actually fighting, jumping, and adventuring. And, we need a female warrior in plate mail.
P-L-A-T-E M-A-I-L. Not heavy chain. Not a few bits of armor inspired by the movie <i>Heavy Metal</i>. Real, honest-to-Arthur plate mail.
And we need to see her more than once.
Have you seen Seelah, the Paladin?
We need *other* strong female character in action poses as well, of course. I'd love to see the iconic cleric (page 8) actually fighting, jumping, and adventuring. And, we need a female warrior in plate mail.
You know what I'd love to see in fantasy, an average looking woman. Classes aristocrat, fighter, bard/sorcerer, barbarian, rogue, etc feature "hawt" females. Frankly, I'm tired of it. What's wrong with a female hero with her face burned by acid (and blames Gaedron Lamb for it)? Or one that lives under a curse and all her hair has fallen out? How come those as ugly as a monglelfolk are ALWAYS male? ALWAYS!
[/rant]
I actually like the races lineup. I would make the elves a little skinnier to represent their frail Con, but I don't see what all the complaining is about.
Mammy Graul
What's she from?
Mammy GraulWhat's she from?
Hook Mountain Massacre
I have no problems with the big ears. They are going with them for Pathfinder, anyway, so they fit.
And gnomes are weird and quirky little fellows closer to the fey realm than to humans and their civilisation. They treat their hair not as humans do - they want to look like nature. So they have hair in all the colours flowers come in.
The problem is that artists are perverts
Of course. But if the viewers weren't perverts, all the artists would have run out of money and starved long ago... ;-)
The elf ears remind me of Drew Hayes' work on 'Poison Elves' (Sirius Comics).
Poison Elves? I must say that I don't have a problem with the abundance of elven subraces, but this goes too far!
You know what I'd love to see in fantasy, an average looking woman. Classes aristocrat, fighter, bard/sorcerer, barbarian, rogue, etc feature "hawt" females. Frankly, I'm tired of it. What's wrong with a female hero with her face burned by acid (and blames Gaedron Lamb for it)? Or one that lives under a curse and all her hair has fallen out? How come those as ugly as a monglelfolk are ALWAYS male? ALWAYS!
It's fantasy. More pretty people is usually more pleasing to the eye, and thus more pleasing to the eye's owner.
But your weird fetish with acid burns repulses me ;-P
I'm old and crusty, so I prefer the stuff that Elmore, Trampier, Parkinson and others did in the 1980s.
I second this! I like Wayne Reynolds and most of the others who have contributed to Pathfinder and the Gamemastery Modules, but in my mind Larry Elmore will always be the master.
That being said, I like the drawing with Seoni casting Magic Missile at the Darkmantles...though more because it seems like an iconic dungeon encounter than anything else.
on the pg36 pic:
Oh for crying out loud. We get more provocative pictures in the daily newspapers here in the UK.
Its not the best picture, but that has nothing to do with boobs.
On the 'Paizo Girls':
I love the paizo iconic girl, there is a cool range of them now and my one and only gripe about them is that Seoni would have looked better with slightly darker hair and red or black hair. Other than that, they are infinately better then there WOTC counter parts.
On the art work in general:
I like the range, but i must say, the Line up style is not to my taste.
Erylium from burnt offerings is my one major exception to this, she and to a lesser extent Lyrie Akena worked
Hook Mountain Massacre
I currently don't own that one, I started late to the subscription party and am buying back issues when I have enough for them. So that's something to look forward to.
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Hook Mountain MassacreI currently don't own that one, I started late to the subscription party and am buying back issues when I have enough for them. So that's something to look forward to.
Yes the hurting never stops in that one.
Btw I hate the huge rabbit err elf ears. That picture of the elf ranger chick immediately soured my impression of that npc in Rise of the Runelords. Now I make fun of her to amuse myself. "Maybe she can fly around using those ears and scout the terrain." }: P
Keep the freaky and over exaggerated to a minimum. I loathed the 3.X dragon look, but I mentioned that already didn't I?
Here in France, we 've no problem with boobs of any sort!
As long as there's a graphic coherence in the line art, everything will be fine. Those characters are "iconic" so they must bear "an iconic stance and beauty". A mongrel bald one eyed girl with sour breath has never been an iconic heroin, as well as a big bellied and red nosed paladin never will.
That been said, I have a powerful dislike of those anime donkey eared elves....beurk!
Here in France, we 've no problem with boobs of any sort!
As long as there's a graphic coherence in the line art, everything will be fine. Those characters are "iconic" so they must bear "an iconic stance and beauty". A mongrel bald one eyed girl with sour breath has never been an iconic heroin, as well as a big bellied and red nosed paladin never will.
That been said, I have a powerful dislike of those anime donkey eared elves....beurk!
Actually such characters could be iconic and it would hurt to have art work of 'unconventional' heros.
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I'm old and crusty, so I prefer the stuff that Elmore, Trampier, Parkinson and others did in the 1980s.I second this! I like Wayne Reynolds and most of the others who have contributed to Pathfinder and the Gamemastery Modules, but in my mind Larry Elmore will always be the master.
That being said, I like the drawing with Seoni casting Magic Missile at the Darkmantles...though more because it seems like an iconic dungeon encounter than anything else.
** spoiler omitted **
I respect Elmore's body of work, but his female faces are all too damn similar.
I like Reynolds work a lot. Using his style and art as the core visual style reference seems like a fabulous idea.
I like Reynolds work a lot. Using his style and art as the core visual style reference seems like a fabulous idea.
My only concern is Pathfinder and D&D4E (not to mention Eberron) both using Wayne Reynolds as a core artist. I like his work, but that can be a bit much.
I'll have to agree with the general concensus on the angular manga style art. It is certainly well done, but I cerntainly don't like it. I'd ditch it entirely and go for something more traditional. No "impressionistic" art(pastels, watercolor effects, blurred pics, whatever) either.
I agree - too much Manga style art.
The elf donkey ears need to go - they're horendous
I say More art from Eva Widermann-
http://www.eva-widermann.de/?id=103&offset
I agree - too much Manga style art.
The elf donkey ears need to go - they're horendousI say More art from Eva Widermann-
http://www.eva-widermann.de/?id=103&offset
Now that is D&D art its modern but kinda old school feel I like it
I agree. Eva does some really nice work.
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I'd like to see the artwork get away from what I call comic-book style stuff. I'm old and crusty, so I prefer the stuff that Elmore, Trampier, Parkinson and others did in the 1980s. Give me artwork that actually tells a story instead of comic book characters striking kewl poses.
Not to quibble but Trampier is very much a comic-book style artist. I am with the others on Eva. I dig her work. And also, I'm not sure the donkey eared elves will go away. Is it my imagination or do I recall in a chat reading that the authors wanted their elves to be different like that?
I'm not sure the donkey eared elves will go away. Is it my imagination or do I recall in a chat reading that the authors wanted their elves to be different like that?
Unfortunately, I think you’re right (I read somewhere the same thing) - it’s a shame- I love everything about the Iconics except the horrible elf donkey ears.
Oh well…
Can't win em all my friend pitty though
Jumping on the "Less manga, more Eva" bandwagon. While the racial pics are very skilfully done I'm not a fan of the looks. This is how I'd like my racial pics to be done.
May be a bit late, but I'd like to add my two coppers as well:
I would appreciate toning down the artwork a bit... a bit less of the hot chick approach would be nice. That said, it fits more to Seoni than to Amiri (a naked belly for a frontline combateer?).
The artwork of the other iconics, including the female ones and especially Seelah's artwork is outstanding. That's the way to go, in my humble opinion.
Concerning the elves' ears: Tone them down as well, please. The elves' eyes on the other hand are well done, I like that approach.
And finally, some words of praise for the rest of the art, the panoramic views we were allowed to get over Varisia so far are wonderful. Especially the one showing Magnimar in Pathfinder 2 radiates so much sense of wonder and awe...I'm not sure I've ever seen something like this before.
Greetings, Daniel
May be a bit late, but I'd like to add my two coppers as well:
I would appreciate toning down the artwork a bit... a bit less of the hot chick approach would be nice. That said, it fits more to Seoni than to Amiri (a naked belly for a frontline combateer?).
The artwork of the other iconics, including the female ones and especially Seelah's artwork is outstanding. That's the way to go, in my humble opinion.
Concerning the elves' ears: Tone them down as well, please. The elves' eyes on the other hand are well done, I like that approach.
And finally, some words of praise for the rest of the art, the panoramic views we were allowed to get over Varisia so far are wonderful. Especially the one showing Magnimar in Pathfinder 2 radiates so much sense of wonder and awe...I'm not sure I've ever seen something like this before.
Greetings, Daniel
Creative Director
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Again... Seoni's had more time in the art because we've HAD her art longer. This time next year, I suspect the spread of iconics appearing in adventures will be pretty even.
As for the elf ears... look at Merisiel on the cover of Pathfinder #3. That's pretty much where we'll be generally going with elf ear length; they're long enough to just about reach the top of the head. HOWEVER, sometimes, they'll be longer, sometimes shorter. That's sort of up to the artist's tastes, and also depends on how picky we want to get about things like that. Personally, I really like longer ears on elves. So does pretty much everyone here at Paizo, and so do a large number of our customers. But again... if all you're going by is the picture of Shalelu in Burnt Offerings, keep in mind we've illustrated a lot more elves than her! Again: Think Merisiel, our iconic rogue.
For those who prefer the Spock-look, you still have half-elves.
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Creative Director
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Jumping on the "Less manga, more Eva" bandwagon. While the racial pics are very skilfully done I'm not a fan of the looks. This is how I'd like my racial pics to be done.
There will indeed be more Eva in Pathfinder, never fear. I'd LOVE LOVE LOVE it if she wanted to paint ALL of our art. Alas... she can't.
(And while I'm on the topic... Anyone who wants to see Eva's take on our elf ears need look no further than page 68 of Pathfinder #5; and for the record, that's also my preferred elf-ear length—about 6 to 8 inches. Yes, I'm still talking about elf ears. Get your minds out of the gutter!)