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One thought I've often had re skills, is why even bother with the idea of cross-class skills? For me I would like that concept jettisoned. With no cross-class skills characters are more customizable and allow you to play against 'type'. That said, a Fighter with Use Magic Device is not likely to better at it than the Rogue (by virtue of the rogue have on average more skills and higher Int). The change doesn't upset the apple cart that much but it does give more options to characters. Also I know Iron Heroes has no cross-class and I'm not sure but I believe Conan d20 also dropped that concept (could be wrong about the latter)... Anyways just was curious if anyone else felt this way?
(Side note: still not certain how I feel about dropping the point system)
You don't really need class skills to get a bonus ... most people will naturally be maximizing skills that their class is most likely to use anyway -- after everybody's maximized Perception and Stealth, of course. :)
On the other hand, I'm more than cool with dumping class/cross-class distinctions and just giving everybody a pool of skill points. That's how I'd rather it had been done all along, in fact, although the "Saga style" model is almost as good.
-The Gneech
I agree.
With 2 skill points a level, is it really going to matter if the fighter can actually notice something with a high rank of perception as opposed to having only climb and ride as semi-useful skills?
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You don't really need class skills to get a bonus ... most people will naturally be maximizing skills that their class is most likely to use anyway -- after everybody's maximized Perception and Stealth, of course. :)
On the other hand, I'm more than cool with dumping class/cross-class distinctions and just giving everybody a pool of skill points. That's how I'd rather it had been done all along, in fact, although the "Saga style" model is almost as good.
-The Gneech
Yeah I think I would prefer skill points to remain and dump the concept of cross-class skills entirely. Most players will still max out the skills most relevant to their class but it does open the field a bit. Particularly it will help low skill classes like the fighter have a bit more to them than I jump, climb, swim and ride.
As an addendum if skill point system was kept I would recommend boosting each classes' available skill points by 2. So a cleric would 4+int modifier points rather than 2+int modifier. I know I'm not the only whose houseruled that into games.
I have already done away with cross class skill points
Me, too. I suspect we're in a silent majority, in fact.
I also ditched cross-classed skills. I think this allows for more individualized PC's who don't get penalized for trying something unusual.
Believe me, a Rogue will feel the pinch enough as it is when they skipped Open Locks when they suddenly needed to do so before the Pathfinder HB came out.
I've tried a few variants with skills and cross class skills. I've done it as normal and never liked it then I tried a feat then found EVERYONE took it. This made me think that taking away cross class skills was a good idea... The only problem that I've found was that a there need to be a few Class specific skills that no one else or very few can do. Otherwise the guy who picked so and so class feels left out because anyone can do them now. So I did that change as well and took away cross class skills but did give everyone a class specific skill this way no one has a skill that an odd class can do just as good as someone who should be trained in.
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I don't think that we need class skills.
Every Class has features that set them apart from everyone else.
Some Skills should still be Trained only skills.
Anyone can attempt to open a lock..but unless they are trained they should be at a disadvantage..this can be determined by the DM.
Also I have done away with take 10 and Take 20.
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I have not tried doing away with Cross Class Skills. Reading the thread I am not sure. I think in the old system it really would not matter much but with the new system it might make a big difference in the game.
I like the new system and do not want to go back to skills points. If you think about it you get a skill point every level anyway as you go up in levels - so that really does not change anything for the skills you take. What it does change is splitting those skills up to less than one per level.
I prefer the new system for that.
Cross-Class? I keep thinking what wizards is gong to take open lock or stealth anyway. They have a hard time taking enough skills that help them do their job in the old system. So, most PCs will not take a lot of things that are outside what they normally take. I hate the see the rogue made obsolete because the party all took a bit of what he should do.
I would have to do a couple of character builds under these rules to see what I think.
This already came up in other threads, but I'll restate it here:
1) I think it's a horrible idea to ditch cross class skills entirely. D&D is a class based game, and the notion of "coherent skill sets" is the only reason that classes make sense at all.
HOWEVER
2) It does limit concepts, but NOBODY thinks paying x2 is worth it for getting a cross class skill.
The simple solution I recommend: everyone gets 1 (or 2? or all your int bonus skills?) free class skills that's not on their normal skill list. This is a solution that games like Cyberpunk and Call of Cthulhu have been using for a long time. The bulk of skills are concept related, but a few points for electives gives you room to craft a character to your background.
I like the way Spycraft opens up skill options with origins, but there's not much room for this under the compatibility goal. :)
1) I think it's a horrible idea to ditch cross class skills entirely. D&D is a class based game, and the notion of "coherent skill sets" is the only reason that classes make sense at all.
I don't get this assertion at all. Fighters still get a ton of feats. Wizards still get spells. Clerics still wipe the floor with every other class. There's still lots of class-specialization!
-The Gneech
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I both agree and disagree. I understand why certain skills are cross-class; they don't go against "type" so much as training. I understand the cross-class limits to skill points; they help define the difference between a Ranger and a Fighter (or even a Ranger and a Rogue). I think that Sean Reynolds had the best solution; eliminate the trained/untrained limitations. Anyone who has read his rant (found here and here)on 3.5 can see that he has some pretty good ideas on how the system needs fixed (you hear that Paizo!) Read his perspective and decide... after all, he helped design 3.0 and 3.5!