Seven Days to the Grave (GM Reference)


Curse of the Crimson Throne

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oops. Thank you. I ate the "n"

Liberty's Edge

Iridal wrote:

This is a mistake. The attack of Andaisin is Melee +2 vicious scythe +16/+11 (2d4+6/x4 plus 2d6 and 1d6 herself)

Attack: +9 BA (for divine power), +1 str +2 for greater magic weapon +1 for aid + 3 str for divine power = +16

She also has Weapon Focus (scythe), which I assume makes it +17/+12, unless I've missed something myself?


This may already have been asked, but in the prologue to the Body Count quests, it states there are six of them, but only five are detailed. Was this simply a typo?

RPG Superstar 2011 Top 32

Joseph Jolly wrote:
This may already have been asked, but in the prologue to the Body Count quests, it states there are six of them, but only five are detailed. Was this simply a typo?

The ones I show are:

The Hungry Dead -- 200 saved
Color of Death -- 700 saved
Plague Rats -- 400 saved
Vanishing Virtuoso -- 500 saved
Cure for Blood Veil -- 1000 saved
Subtotal -- 2800 saved

As was noted in a thread I cannot remember where, there is also saving Brienna at the beginning of the plague, and any other individuals added to the tally that the PCs cure along the course of the adventure.

If they manage to do all of the above five encounters plus Brienna, they make it to the top honors on the rewards table.

I do believe James mentioned somewhere, that there had been plans for one more event, but it was trimmed for either space or concept reasons, or some such.

The Exchange

There's also the people in the hospice themselves. If they arrange for them to be cured that pushes them into the top rank too.

RPG Superstar 2011 Top 32

Mark Peyton wrote:
There's also the people in the hospice themselves. If they arrange for them to be cured that pushes them into the top rank too.

That's right, there's Ruan, the 15 Varisians, the five dozen in the upstairs beds, plus those in the waiting room ... any saved count :)

RPG Superstar 2011 Top 32

James, any thoughts on how to deal with the door traps in the Temple of Urgothoa with the change of Channel Energy vs. Turning? I saw your post on the Scarwall thread, and hope you have some ideas :) Thanks!

Paizo Employee Creative Director

Gamer Girrl wrote:
James, any thoughts on how to deal with the door traps in the Temple of Urgothoa with the change of Channel Energy vs. Turning? I saw your post on the Scarwall thread, and hope you have some ideas :) Thanks!

I'd probably handle it the same way; assign a hit point total to the door traps and let that determine if channel energy turns the trap off.


James Jacobs wrote:
Gamer Girrl wrote:
James, any thoughts on how to deal with the door traps in the Temple of Urgothoa with the change of Channel Energy vs. Turning? I saw your post on the Scarwall thread, and hope you have some ideas :) Thanks!
I'd probably handle it the same way; assign a hit point total to the door traps and let that determine if channel energy turns the trap off.

CEDP (Channel Energy Damage Points) aspected + or - (Positive or Negative), the aspect determining the kind of damage required.

So, haunt #1 might read as [+CEDP: 15], whereas the "Grand Lock of Thor's Chest Hair" might read as [-CEDP: 150].

Paizo Employee Creative Director

Turin the Mad wrote:
James Jacobs wrote:
Gamer Girrl wrote:
James, any thoughts on how to deal with the door traps in the Temple of Urgothoa with the change of Channel Energy vs. Turning? I saw your post on the Scarwall thread, and hope you have some ideas :) Thanks!
I'd probably handle it the same way; assign a hit point total to the door traps and let that determine if channel energy turns the trap off.

CEDP (Channel Energy Damage Points) aspected + or - (Positive or Negative), the aspect determining the kind of damage required.

So, haunt #1 might read as [+CEDP: 15], whereas the "Grand Lock of Thor's Chest Hair" might read as [-CEDP: 150].

I'd still just go with hit points. Why reinvent a new type of acronym and point total when hit points do the same job and everyone already understands them?


James Jacobs wrote:
Turin the Mad wrote:
James Jacobs wrote:
Gamer Girrl wrote:
James, any thoughts on how to deal with the door traps in the Temple of Urgothoa with the change of Channel Energy vs. Turning? I saw your post on the Scarwall thread, and hope you have some ideas :) Thanks!
I'd probably handle it the same way; assign a hit point total to the door traps and let that determine if channel energy turns the trap off.

CEDP (Channel Energy Damage Points) aspected + or - (Positive or Negative), the aspect determining the kind of damage required.

So, haunt #1 might read as [+CEDP: 15], whereas the "Grand Lock of Thor's Chest Hair" might read as [-CEDP: 150].

I'd still just go with hit points. Why reinvent a new type of acronym and point total when hit points do the same job and everyone already understands them?

Precisely to avoid the dilemma referencing it being potentially damage-able by means other than the one intended. Call 'em Haunt Hit Points to make it simpler I suppose. (HHP) - keeps the hp protocol, but the fact that they have a distinctly seperate hit point source - one not subject to damage in ANY other way - rather warrants a (slightly) different mechanic to track that damage. :)

Just a suggestion of course.


A DM's Familiar dataset is now available for Seven Days to the Grave on the DMF downloads page.

Sovereign Court

My players have caught on too quickly that the coins are involved in the plague and want to head straight for the ship wreck.

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

My advice for this is take great care. The Sea Hag nearly did my party in, and they were a party of 7 at the appropriate level. You may want to think about dialing down the amount of Environmentals you throw at the party. If you go with a complete interpretation of the underwater rules, most parties tend to be quite a bit weaker. Missile weapons are all but useless, only piercing weapons work with any reliability. Spells are so situational that they are all but useless. Good luck to a party under level in those environments.

That being said here are some thoughts on how to at least give them second thoughts on continuing. That ship is quite a ways down there. It is in the deepest part of the river. If they don't have waterbreathing or something similar they may not even be able to get down to the boat with any time to do anything but go back up for air. Unless they are 5th level there is no way they can cast the spell and the potions and scroll's are ultimately under your control. If they want to buy them, well to bad there is only 1 potion and 2 scrolls and they happen to be running oh say, 1500 gp each ;) perhaps not that steep but don't hesitate to use the market here.
Now...if they do manage to figure out a system to go down there, there isn't any light past about 20' let's make it 10 feet, it is the Jegarre river after all...(Eeeew). That ship is a heck of a lot further down than that. Darkvision is nice, light spells are easy to come by but this is another excellent time to point out the difficulties. How do you cast a spell with a Verbal Component Underwater? Hmm, aren't the Cure spells Verbal? hmm...Wands require a Verbal also. My bet is they will start to see this as something they may want to wait a while for.


I hope this is the right thread to ask this question.
I may soon have my party (lvl6): Fighter, Abyssal Sorcerer, Ranged Ranger and Life Oracle exploring the sunken "Direption".
I did not like the prospect of the actual Yvicca encounter and instead created my own "urban legend":

Spoiler:

Murray Dick, the White Eel
N Huge Magical Beast hp 80 Move 30ft (swim) Ini +7 CR7

STR 30
DEX 16
CON 24
INT 5
WIS 16
CHA 12

BA +7
CMB +19 (23 grapple)
CMD 32

Fort 12
Ref 10
Will 5

AC 24 = 10 +3 +13 -2

Flat-footed 21
touch 11
Low Light Vision, Darkvision 60ft., Scent, Reach 10ft., Grab, Gnaw
Improved Initiative, Skill Focus (Stealth), Weapon Focus (Bite), Lightning Reflexes

Bite +16 2d8 +15 plus grab
Escape Artist +11, Perception +9, Stealth +15, Swim +18

Gnaw (Ex) If a giant moray begins a round with a grabbed foe, it inflicts automatic bite damage (2d8+15 points of damage). A giant moray eel possesses a second set of jaws in its throat that aid in swallowing—it can make a second bite attack (+16 attack, 1d8+8) against a foe it has already grabbed.

Would you think this is an appropriate replacement? I generally find the underwater encounter pretty tough when no-one remembers about freedom of movement and a pushover if they do.

This leads me to my second question concerning the Jolistina encounter.

Spoiler:
The zombies in the house strike me as push-overs, making the proposed "hit-and-run" tactics of Jolistina rather moot.

I hate to make encounters gifts (in a sense of having them one-shot the mobs without resistance) for the group, I rather like them to have a challenging and fun encounter.


I have another question, maybe this will get answered... :P

Pseudodragons in Korvosa: They are Korvosa's noble pest, like flocks of white doves would be in our cities, maybe.
They are a symbol of the city and are revered for keeping the imp population in check.

Fact: The party rescues Majenko from his prison aboard Barvasi's HQ, he (Majenko) promises to help the party.

Question: How do you handle the highly abusive potential of an aerial spy with ,literally, a thousand eyes?

Example: "Majenko (as cohort or familiar), would oyu be so kind as to snoop around a bit and ask some of your pseudodragon friends what is going on in the palace. They like to roost there, don't they? Best they keep an eye on the Queen and her bodyguard. While they're at it, they can check out some of the following estates, too..."

It is not so far fetched to imagine a party to try out tactics of the sort. My party has (luckily) abandonded the tactics after I told them that the palaces is being avoided by the dragons since the king's death, cause their nests get disrupted constantly.


Simcha wrote:

Question: How do you handle the highly abusive potential of an aerial spy with ,literally, a thousand eyes?

In my campaign, the group decided that Majenko should lay low (ie; fly to some forest and don't be too close) for a few weeks to start with, since he would be considered a valuable enough "possession" that his former "owner" would likely pay for multiple instances of scrying magic and similar to try to find his current location.

They figured that two-three weeks would be sufficient for Barvasi to give up, and Majenko then returned to fulfil his promise of servitude. Unfortunately the campaign ended soon after his return due to real-life happening, but I would have allowed them to use him as an airborne scout.

The important thing to consider is that he's an intelligent being, and wouldn't do anything that would be overly dangerous (unless he would consider it fun!).

As for inside the palace.. I highly doubt that pseudodragons would be allowed to fly around there. They generally keep to the rooftops; they don't go inside buildings. If a pseudodragon was discovered sneaking about in the palace, I imagine the guards would make short work of it. Especially now that Ileosa is in charge, but I doubt it would have been tolerated even under a benevolent ruler.


From what I understand the queen wants to kill certain people because they don't conform to her expectations of what a citizen in her country should be.
This reads like someone with a an extreme case of one-sightedness. Was that all there was to it?

"Because I want to" is a bad reason to kill anyone, much less orchestrate genocide.


The more direct reason for the plague is actually in a later book (book 6, iirc). Ileosa's plans start early in the campaign, and play out all the way through. My players became suspicious early into the book, with the physicians showing up only days after the outbreak, but all that aside my understanding of the motivations is:

Spoiler:
Korazon's power needs dead souls, as I recall reading ahead a bit. Ileosa tries something like this again in a last ditch effort to gain the power she needs in book 6.

Ileosa is not meant to be 'sugar and spice' in this campaign, after all.


Squeeks wrote:

The more direct reason for the plague is actually in a later book (book 6, iirc). Ileosa's plans start early in the campaign, and play out all the way through. My players became suspicious early into the book, with the physicians showing up only days after the outbreak, but all that aside my understanding of the motivations is:

** spoiler omitted **

Ileosa is not meant to be 'sugar and spice' in this campaign, after all.

Thanks for the spoiler. That makes more sense.


For those still (or currently) looking for it, there is a sidebar in Chapter 5, page 44 that include more encounters that the PCs could save more Korvosans to kick up their saved count for the end of the book.


I'm having a few problems with this campaign, mainly along the lines of the Eversmoking Bottle that the PC's recovered from, Griggz, I believe it was. It is an incredibly powerful item. The PC's managed to bypass the majority of the Hospice and Temple by unleashing the Eversmoking Bottle and simply walking through everything. They ended up setting off the Alarm in the Temple and so when they entered the Blood Vats chamber with the majority of Priests, Plague Doctors and Rolth all in one chamber, the ones who did all the damage were the Doctors and Priests.

Rolth was practically ineffective because all of his spells require line of sight to work. He could shoot of his Enervation or Ray of Enfeeblement, but that imparts a 50 percent miss chance, which any retarded wizard would know is a bad idea, and he couldn't use his Wand of Magic Missile because he couldn't target them. The most effective spell he cast was lightning bolt, which hit the Rogue and Monk... wait, no it didn't. Darn that Evasion. The not-quite-Mystic Theurge took damage, but even he made his save and then just healed it all back up within a couple rounds. The most damaging thing Rolth did was hit the Ranger with his Enervation as he was chasing him around the catwalks, but unfortunately, the Ranger happens to have Humans and Undead as his favored enemey's so when he tried to Dimension Door out, the Ranger critically hit him and... dead Rolth.

The Eversmoking Bottle almost completely nullified potentially the most dangerous character in the Temple, and I say that because if he hit with the right spells on the right characters, fighting Andaisin would have been a sure death sentance for the Party.

My other concern is the amount of Wealth available in that temple. All the Priest's have +1 Breastplates, an over a 1,000 GP item, and Doctors have the Plaguebringer masks, each a 2,000 gp item. There are 14 Breastplates and roughly 16 masks, and that's not to mention the stuff on the 3, main baddies. After the half pricing, a rough estimate puts the total temple value at somewhere around 35,000 GP, and I'm not factoring in the stuff from the Gray Maidens because my PC's left all that behind. I also know that they have gone far above and beyond the call of duty curing the plague and will earn the maximum reward.

I need help on figuring out how to deal with the Eversmoking Bottle and the incredible wealth the PC's will be getting.


Tels wrote:
stuff

Two thoughts:

How do the pcs see through the smoke? See if you read the description, they don't see through it any better. In that sense they level the playing feild, and really don't gain a huge advantage, EXCEPT knowing they won't be able to see.
As for the wealth, The majority of it (doctors masks) would be hard to sell, especially since they are Iolesa's peeps. Just reduce cost, and make them sellable only on the black market. Grey maiden armor would be the same way, considering they are specific standard issue.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber

Ok, I haven't seen this question thus far on the boards so I thought I'd touch on it. Has anyone addressed the initial timeline from Part 1 to Part Four for 7 Days?

Part Four begins the 'missions' for the PCs to complete as they look for a cure and delve into the secrets behind the plague. Looking into the missions however, it seems they'd have to be at least a week or more into the outbreak since Racker's alley is piling dead bodies, and it takes an average of 7 days for the typical person to die from it (the younger/older having lower saves and cha/con scores to fight off the disease). Part 3 however is only a few days into the initial exposure, so should there be a few days of 'filler time' before they start receiving their missions? Has anyone added anything in particular or did your groups just jump right in with their own ideas?

I know the bad guys have been working behind the scenes for awhile, and have had some time to set themselves up for watching the plague take hold, but it still needs its time to take hold and start killing.

Thanks


RedRidingHood wrote:

Ok, I haven't seen this question thus far on the boards so I thought I'd touch on it. Has anyone addressed the initial timeline from Part 1 to Part Four for 7 Days?

Part Four begins the 'missions' for the PCs to complete as they look for a cure and delve into the secrets behind the plague. Looking into the missions however, it seems they'd have to be at least a week or more into the outbreak since Racker's alley is piling dead bodies, and it takes an average of 7 days for the typical person to die from it (the younger/older having lower saves and cha/con scores to fight off the disease). Part 3 however is only a few days into the initial exposure, so should there be a few days of 'filler time' before they start receiving their missions? Has anyone added anything in particular or did your groups just jump right in with their own ideas?

I know the bad guys have been working behind the scenes for awhile, and have had some time to set themselves up for watching the plague take hold, but it still needs its time to take hold and start killing.

Thanks

I didn't really think about this last session when we played, but I explained to my players that by day two or three the city was loosing hundreds of citizens a day. The bodies pile up quickly, because the city has no means with which to dispose of even several dozen bodies a day let alone 100. If the temple of pharasma is responsible for caring for the dead, and at the sametime is trying to aid the living even several dozen bodies will probably pile up quickly. I also figured 2 or 3 days for your average 9 con human to kick the bucket. Especially as each day he takes con damage his chance of survival grows worst.


Hello, a player of mine wants in 6th lvl to take leadrship feat and have a paladin as follower. Since Abadar don't have almost any paladin, could you suggest a couple of dities that could have a paladin in the city( The temple of many perhaps)???
I'm rather new to this world( we used to play in Forgotten Realms) and still i'm not well aware of this world's dities.

Thank you in advance for any help.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Korvosa has four bigger temples: Abadar, Asmodeus, Pharasma and Sarenrae. There is also a smaller temple dedicated to Shelyn.

Of those Sarenrae is the most likely to have paladins, though Abadar and Shelyn have paladins as well. I'd choose a paladin who is aligned to one of the churches you want to use later in the AP. I'd go for Abadar or Sarenrae.

Of course, there can be paladins of any god present in the city, even if there is no church to their god.


I'm back with more questions this time!!!
My group got in the temple and last night managed after loosing too much time and having a bit of arguement with each other to make Mr.Arkminos to use his dimension door but i haven't made my mind yet to where!!! So after the noise of fighting Rolth and the other in G8 and spending time time destroying Arkminos' rooms I decided that the lasts of the priests with Lady Andaisin they are waiting outside.
Should I have Arkminos with them to revenge the destruction of his property?
Even without him they have used many spells so many of them may die.If they do so die (sorry but my "coma" button doesn't work) does anyone know of a module or two so as to be able to bring the new party back to this campaign route? I wouldn't want to start from lvl 1 again but from the sixth that they are now.

Thank in advance for any help.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

The encounter with Lady Andaisin is tough enough as it is. I wouldn't add anyone else. Arkminos is a loner anyway, he wouldn't seek the company of too many others.

I see two options: you can have him run, maybe create or gather some more undead and confront the PCs again later.

The other option is much more appealing roleplay-wise. After he has noticed that his 'allies' have been killed, he might offer the PCs to help them find a cure for the plague. He could become some kind of untrustworthy ally, which creates all kinds of roleplaying opportunities.


Dear MrVergee thank you for your tips and i see your point. I'll try to follow ot though I know some of my PCs will say that i just let them live!!!
Still they are rather exhausted so there is a possibility that fight with Andaisin will prove rather fatal for them all. Do you have any module in mind for 5 or 6 level party (a new one as you can see) that will help me continue with the CoCT campaign??
Or any idea of how to introduce a new party to Korvosa and have the Escape From the Old Korvosa even if the current party dies???


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber

It may be tricky, and would take some cooperation from your players, but maybe your players can re-start as characters who were connected to their previous ones. I'm thinking siblings, associates, good friends, etc. Zellara could connect them together if they aren't already, as the next best group to handle the growing situation in Korvosa. When they hear of their (previous characters') deaths, they go to mourn and are connected that way to Field Commander Kroft. She sees them as moderately capable, and asks them as a favor (since by the end of Ch 2 into beginning of Ch 3 her ranks are pretty well thinned out) to complete their friends' mission.

Beyond that, I would have them work through in a session, how they reacted to the events of Chapters 1 and 2 thus far, and what they knew of the previous "Heroes'" accomplishments. That way they can give their new characters some sense of needing to step up and take charge of the situation, and give themselves a chance to add in how they'd now of past events.

On a side note: I think you may be confusing two of your bad guys. Ramoska Arkminos (the Vampire) is not an NPC they have to fight directly. The notes in the campaign actually say its probably best if they let this particular bad guy go. I actually played it that he traded for the chance not to fight, since he didn't particularly care for his associates anyway, and neither does he care if they're making noise outside his door. He only cares for his research into finding a cure for his vampirism.

However, if you are referring to the Necromancer, Rolth, he's the one that is pissed about them destroying one of his many labs in Ch1. It specifies that if Rolth runs, he's not going to show up again this chapter, but perhaps he will as an ally for the Emperor in Ch3. He's not as bad of an encounter, though I had him Dimension Door out and they may or may not meet up with him again during the campaign. I haven't quite decided yet.

Grand Lodge

Just picked up 7 days, and have skimmed it. Starting Edge of Anarchy in a week, but trying to think ahead. How did people handle having a paladin or cleric of Abadar in the group? Did it make for easy cure diseases? Did it cause any problems or good opportunities? My group as a paladin of abadar, which is why I ask.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

I don't know how much your players have invested into their PCs, but my players are usually very attached to their characters, so I try to find solutions for characters deaths.

If you do run into a TPK, can't you think of some way to have the PCs returned to life? I just picked up the module 'The Harrowing' the other day in my local shop. How about having the PCs' souls sucked into Zellara's Harrow deck when they die. If they complete the challenges of the adventure, their souls are returned to their bodies. It would require a decent amount of work on your part, though. You would have to adapt the adventure, both in storyline and in level (The Harrowing is written for level 9, which is way too high). But I think it would make for a grand adventure and this way the resurrection doesn't come for free.


Bristor --
My take was exactly the opposite: Do you really WANT to kill all your PCs with Blood Veil before they accomplish anything? I intentionally beefed the paladin in the party to 5th level just so he could Cure Disease, and even then the DC of Blood Veil with such low-level characters made it a challenge for them. If you want a sense of urgency, have them come in at 4th level as planned. Then they can't cure disease, the temple of Abadar is already booked, and you can probably kill off a PC or two with the disease before the scenario even gets rolling.
My paladin essentially lost his LOH ability for the entire scenario -- between the 4 PCs who were susceptible and the 2 NPCs they wanted to keep alive (one of the character's parents), virtually every morning he spent all his LOHs curing disease, and all his 1st level spells on Lesser Restoration.
As long as you keep in mind that in Pathfinder Cure Disease isn't automatic, and you have to roll against the DC of the disease, then having someone who can cure the disease isn't that big a deal; they're barely going to manage to keep the party alive, much less help out other people. Those potions and wands of Cure Disease are strewn about for a reason -- Curing Blood Veil is HARD.
A paladin of abadar is only slightly problematic -- Abadar is a penny-pinching god, so even your paladin isn't going to get Cure Disease for free, so I don't see it as any issue at all.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber

I don't think Bristor "wants" to kill them with Blood Veil, I think Bristor is just wondering if having a Paladin made curing the party a cakewalk or not.

Having a Paladin made the party pretty immune to Blood Veil, but they didn't have enough to help out everyone in town. I also kept tabs on several NPCs they knew that were contracting the disease that they would want to cure, so that kept them on their toes. Honestly though, not all of them catch it every day (they have mechanics for it and I pre-rolled everything) and several of my players rolled an immunity to it in a background generator.

As for the campaign as a whole there are innumerable opportunities to have fun with a cleric or paladin. They really have some areas to shine as a character. In Chapter 1, if you don't want them to be able to diplomacize their way through Devargo, have Majenko ask for help. A paladin cannot resist a rescue! In Chapter 3, I'm going to have particular fun with an Evil Cleric I'm going to get them to work with.

You can also get some ideas of how Abadar works in the group by skimming some of the online campaigns. I've seen several groups with Paladins/Clerics of Abadar in their midst. Seems to work great. My paladin chose Iomedae, and we have a cleric of Shelyn (did i mention fun with a certain evil cleric?).


Oh, CaroRose, you're just getting started on the fun!

We have a bard of Shelyn and a paladin of Iomedae. The interactions with the cleric have been a multi-module highlight of role-playing goodness. Can you say, "Reform-oriented party"? They don't want to let the cleric go because they are absolutely SURE they can reform the cleric.

I consider characters like (our) favorite cleric to be the reason you buy a module: Anyone can create a quick dungeon crawl; you're buying the NPCs and the backgrounds.

My *only* complaint about paladins is once you hit the final modules (5 and 6). A paladin running amok in Scarwall is a wrecking machine. Sure, it's what they're designed to do, but the seriously epic damage dealt to supposedly deadly creatures is downright embarrassing. Especially once the paladin hits level 12 and the entire party is Smiting Evil on some poor schmuck. Adult dragon = challenge for 12th-14th level party. Adult evil dragon with the entire party Smiting Evil = A one-round wonder.

We had excellent party balance through modules 1-4, even with a paladin. I think having a paladin added to the hopelessness of Seven Days to the Grave because here you have someone who CAN cure disease, but who can't possibly handle the number of cases in the city, so who has to watch as people suffer and die who he CAN'T help. Play that up. It'll go over well. ;-)

It's not until Modules 5 and 6 that you're going to have to start thinking of "ways to slow down the paladin", and it's usually the embarrassing, hackneyed ways that have worked for decades: Swarms of low-level baddies that keep the paladin surrounded while the big baddie takes care of less-dangerous opponents.

Seriously. Don't worry about the paladin in 7 days. Mine was almost completely ineffectual because he used up all his powers every morning. Worry about the paladin in Scarwall. Your undead are going to have a BAD day if you don't.

Grand Lodge

Thanks for the feedback. I thought Paladin's didn't get cure disease until 6th level, so I was more wondering about how the connection with Abadar could let them get access to cure disease if necessary (even if they have to pay for it since that's how Ab rolls), and scared the whole party would be wiped out early on. I guess on the one hand I want them scared, but on the other, i don't want it to slow down the other parts of the adventure.

Also, how well might a paladin of Abadar know a cleric like Ishanti, who serves as a connection to the temple. Is that NPC even needed? I'm trying to get a handle on how big an institution the Temple of Abadar would be in a city this side. How well would the Archbanker know a 4th level paladin of his faith?

Also, I read somewhere in the AP that 10% of varisians are immune - CarolRose, did you just roll for anyone who was Varisian to see if they were immune? What is this background generator of which you speak?

I like the idea of Majenko targeting the Paladin in Eel's End in his call for help - hadn't thought of that.

And thanks for the heads up about Scarwall. Will it matter that the pally is an archer?

Cheers!


Re: Paladin level to get Cure Disease: I haven't checked, and it's been a LONG time. (Got reorged at work, so haven't played in a couple of months, and that party is at 15th level). I just looked at the scenario and thought, "If I play this as written, all my characters are going to die of Blood Veil, so I'd best get the paladin up to the point where he can cure disease."

You can RP it any way you want, but unless you want PCs dying of disease (and believe me, you can make some long-term enemies that way ;-) ), you want them to have SOME kind of access to a few Cure Disease spells along the way. Maybe not daily, but once a week just to keep them alive.

Abadar is the BIG temple in a city of 18,000; it's likely to have dozens of clerics and maybe 10-20 paladins. There are rules about that in one of the references. But it's a relatively small number; smaller than most people's high school classes. If your paladin of Abadar is from Korvosa, I see no reason that he shouldn't get "special treatment" for himself and his friends -- As I said, a few reserved "Cure Disease" spells once a week seems perfectly reasonable.

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I would guess that the paladin and Ishanti would recognize each other on sight, and know a bit about each other, but not much more. Think of being on the same floor of a college dorm. You know the person, you probably know their name and their major, but you're not all that likely to be hanging out with them.

*In my opinion*, Ishanti is definitely a throw-away NPC. With a paladin of Abadar, you can be getting the news that way. Just don't kill the paladin. ;-) I never grew attached to Ishanti, so the party really kind of ignored him.

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My bard of Shelyn was half-Varisian, so she got her 10% roll. And failed.

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Paladin archers are even worse -- the truly dangerous party-killing foes of Scarwall are flyers. You're going to want them to swap out some of their spells for Wind Wall if they're going to survive.


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For Bristor:

As kind of a house rule, we've been using a background generator to help players flesh out a good background for their characters. There's a few out there that work but I think the name of ours is Heroes of Legend (also a Heroes of Today and a Heroes of Tomorrow, depending on the overall setting and level of fantasy). We'll roll up backgrounds together and then they write up a story to work it all in and get some extra xp for it. Then I use the ideas to tie them into the actual campaign.

I.e. our Varisian Sorceress rolled that she was immune to disease, so I made her brother immune to Blood Veil for fun. However, the half-elf whose father is the Mierani diplomat and mother was a Varisian was not immune. Neither was the Shoanti/Varisian cleric. I didn't want all my party immune! Paladins are immune to disease at 3rd, so he was a moot point. He had to wait until 6th however to add Remove Disease to his Mercy so most of the cleric's spells went to remove disease and the paladin's to lesser restoration.

From what I've read up on Abadar, yes they charge for healing, but an 'adventuring' cleric or paladin of Abadar would be able to give healing to the party without demanding payment. He will get free healing for himself at the Bank, and maybe a discount for his party but not free for all (maybe one or two in dire need, just not all). The reason I'd rule it that way is because Ishani actually talks about using up his own healing at the Bank on the Abadarians who were sick, meaning that after healing all their own ranks, they really have to watch who else they heal or they'll be quickly unable to help any of the populace. Maybe even play it in that manner. Let the PCs know that they are willing to cure them, but that it will mean this cute little girl here (enter random citizen) will not get treatment today. Keeps them looking at other options.

And yes, the Bank of Abadar is one of the largest establishments in Korvosa, so there are a lot of acolytes and such. Whatever works best for your group for familiarity is fine. My people didn't know Ishani, but I've been trying to build him up as a good ally (he has a cameo later in chapter 6). Someone who was part of the Bank however may have barely known Ishani, or they could have mentored under him. In the mentoring case, I would still have Ishani be the 'diplomat' uniting the different groups trying to help combat blood veil, leaving your PC to take care of the other business afoot in that module. If the party doesn't form a very close bond with Cressidia or Marcus, you could adapt Ishani to be their point of contact for the quests they go on. A low-level character however would likely have very little reason to know the Archbanker (Tuttle). Poor Tuttle doesn't even have any facetime in this campaign.

Having an 'in' with the Bank may also open up an option for exploring the other side of the Blood Veil infection. Reading the backstory, you'll notice that the ship was the obvious point of infection. The other half of the infected coins, however were placed directly into the Vault of Abadar and as the center of commerce for the city is the reason it spread so prevalently in that area to begin with. Their own mercantile strength became the city's weakness.


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For NobodysHome

I am excited and scared for Scarwall at the same time. I've seen the Smitewall talks and am still currently focusing on chapters 3-4, but know i need a plan brewing in the background for the Paladin. He is going to be a monster that kills all my monsters.

I saw something in a discussion where they pinned the Paladin under a dead dragon and the rest of the party had to work out how to fight without him.....hmmm.


CaroRose wrote:

For NobodysHome

I am excited and scared for Scarwall at the same time. I've seen the Smitewall talks and am still currently focusing on chapters 3-4, but know i need a plan brewing in the background for the Paladin. He is going to be a monster that kills all my monsters.

I saw something in a discussion where they pinned the Paladin under a dead dragon and the rest of the party had to work out how to fight without him.....hmmm.

That's just TOO funny! I put in a "mini-adventure" between History of Ashes and Scarwall and the paladin did indeed get pinned under a dead dragon. It was awesome! The bard had an elephant figurine of wonder and sat there watching the elephant fail STR roll after STR roll, finally fumbling so I ruled the paladin was now suffocating under the dragon. Great fun! So apparently it's a trend!

And the wonderful thing was, the party won without him, and the other party members were SO happy! "We can win a huge fight WITHOUT the paladin! Woo hoo!"

And the Sklar-Quah now name him, "Dragon Slayer... ha ha ha!"


I'm a GM and I always think about things like this, so I apologize in advance. :)

As written in the AP, there's an internal logic to Wes Schneider's explanation on page 20 as to why magic isn't enough to contain a plague in a fantasy world.

However, what if the Church of Sarenrae had the foresight to prepare for a future plague, and decided to commit one of its 6th-level clerics to creating remove disease wands full-time for a year?

Under Pathfinder rules, the cost of such Remove Disease wands would be:

750gp x 3 (spell level) x 6 (spell level) = 13,500gp base price
That's about 13.5 days of work.
Assuming the cleric is taking Oathdays and major Korvosan holidays off, that comes out to be about 21 wands per year.

So in just one year, this one cleric is creating 21 wands -- enough to cast Remove Disease 1,050 times.

Blood veil has a of DC 20. Because the wands would have a d20+6 (caster level check) against the disease, they will succeed at removing the disease 35% of the time -- one cleric's single year of work would create enough wands to eliminate blood veil about 370 times. After 20 years work, this increases to curing more than 7,000 people.

Because plagues are so devastating, would it not make sense for a church devoted to healing to plan for such contingencies and store wands away?

And doesn't magic -- combined with other public measures -- at least have a fighting chance to stop a plague from breaking-out? And even if it didn't succeed, worshippers of Sarenrae would at least have succeeded at saving hundreds, if not thousands, of lives, right? Right?


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
The Rot Grub wrote:

750gp x 3 (spell level) x 6 (spell level) = 13,500gp base price

That's about 13.5 days of work.
Assuming the cleric is taking Oathdays and major Korvosan holidays off, that comes out to be about 21 wands per year. After 20 years work, this increases to curing more than 7,000 people.

I think the answer is pretty logical. Your plan to make 420 wands in 20 years would cost GP 5 670 000. Now who has that kind of money? A temple might very well have one or two wands available for emergencies (probably not fully charged), but never a couple of hundred.

Even then, when people actually do get sick, do they get this 'healing' for free? The price for an average three charges per person comes down to 810 GP. That's a lot of money to hand out freely on a large scale.


I love your point, but don't forget that the major temples in Korvosa are....Abadar and Asmodeus. Neither of them are going to give healing away for free.

We had a blast roleplaying through the party's paladin of Iomedae running around burning all his Lay on Hands and Minor Restorations every single day healing as many people as he could for free, and the priests of Abadar trying to shoo him away. (Plus the angry mob effect, but the bard's Diplomacy and the fact that the paladin really used up ALL of his applicable spell slots and Lay on Hands every morning ensured that the mob got to know him pretty quickly).

But the only other two temples mentioned in Korvosa are the temple of Pharasma, which I doubt would concern itself with such things, and the temple of Shelyn, which is probably too small to help.

So you're absolutely right in your numbers, but you don't have a temple of Sarenrae nearby to help...

Silver Crusade

NobodysHome wrote:

I love your point, but don't forget that the major temples in Korvosa are....Abadar and Asmodeus. Neither of them are going to give healing away for free.

We had a blast roleplaying through the party's paladin of Iomedae running around burning all his Lay on Hands and Minor Restorations every single day healing as many people as he could for free, and the priests of Abadar trying to shoo him away. (Plus the angry mob effect, but the bard's Diplomacy and the fact that the paladin really used up ALL of his applicable spell slots and Lay on Hands every morning ensured that the mob got to know him pretty quickly).

But the only other two temples mentioned in Korvosa are the temple of Pharasma, which I doubt would concern itself with such things, and the temple of Shelyn, which is probably too small to help.

So you're absolutely right in your numbers, but you don't have a temple of Sarenrae nearby to help...

There is a Temple of Sarenrae in Korvosa. Its mentioned in the guide. Its one of the four major temples (the one to Shelyn is the smallest of the named temples).

The "its too expensive" argument mostly works. But the basic issue is that the world of D&D doesn't really make any sense if you look at it TOO closely. The available magic would have a much greater effect on the world than it does if people used it "properly". You just have to avoid looking too closely.

The question isn't so much "why aren't there wands of cure disease" as "why isn't there a Clerics Sans Frontiers ready to bamf in 100 high level clerics?". Not to mention "why don't people play more games with 20 questions and commune in order to stop plots like this before they even get started?".

The above is NOT a slam at D&D. To have a world with as much magic as D&D actually be internally consistent would be an almost impossible task and the end result would be to piss off 99% of your market with all the useless detail.


MrVergee wrote:
The Rot Grub wrote:

750gp x 3 (spell level) x 6 (spell level) = 13,500gp base price

That's about 13.5 days of work.
Assuming the cleric is taking Oathdays and major Korvosan holidays off, that comes out to be about 21 wands per year. After 20 years work, this increases to curing more than 7,000 people.
I think the answer is pretty logical. Your plan to make 420 wands in 20 years would cost GP 5 670 000. Now who has that kind of money?

Oy gevay, the problem of gold. That makes sense. I suppose, because materials cost is a mechanic that has no explanation (though I can easily imagine one - the rarity of materials that can store magic, for example), that I forgot about this point.


pauljathome wrote:
But the basic issue is that the world of D&D doesn't really make any sense if you look at it TOO closely.

You're right. The AP does start off with a king dying from something as mundane as poison -- salvation was only a 3rd-level spell away. And of course, he could have been restored with a Raise Dead spell. (I have always been bothered by the fact that clerics can reverse death with a spell above which there are four more spell levels.)

On the other hand, I do think my question is something that a lot of players would ask and wonder about, since the AP cries out for the players to think how the city can marshal its resources, including magical ones, and how it could prevent future disasters.

Silver Crusade

The Rot Grub wrote:


On the other hand, I do think my question is something that a lot of players would ask and wonder about, since the AP cries out for the players to think how the city can marshal its resources, including magical ones, and how it could prevent future disasters.

Agreed.

In my version of Korvosa, NPCs are a little lower level in general. We've also never liked Magic Mart so making magic items is fairly rare and magic items are definitely rarer in general. We all agreed to not ask how there are still so many items in Dungeons :-).

When I ran it, the characters already had a good relation with the Church of Saranrae (one reason that I knew it was in the guide :-)). So they knew that the temple was the only one that really gave a damn about the poor and that it was being absolutely overwhelmed by the magnitude of the task it was facing.


The most embarrassing part is that the Temple of Sarenrae figured prominently in my group's "Imp Genocide" in Crown of Fangs.

Too much gin, not enough sleep...

In general, I think my approach would be that temples, especially good temples like Sarenrae's, have much better things to do with their funds than have their high-level clerics cranking out Cure Disease wands, like actually feeding and clothing the poor, helping the homeless, etc.

I like pauljathorne's approach that they were simply overwelmed; my paladin only managed to cure 2-3 people a day because of his low CL.

Yes, if you really get into it, there's "Create Food" and "Create Water" spells, and you can crank through a whole ton-o-calculations that a small temple would be able to feed hundreds, but remember that Korvosa's government has been bleeding the city dry, so there are so many poverty-stricken citizens that Sarenrae's temple spends most of its funds there.

I think it's the classic "GM BS" situation -- give them a vague answer like, "They focused their resources elsewhere because there hasn't been a major plague in over a century," and give yourself time to think about exactly where those resources went...

Grand Lodge

Preparing to enter the latter half of 7 Days, and looking at the Queen's Physicians, I've been considering making them Alchemists instead of Rogues. Looking for feedback on the idea, and also hoping someone already had the idea and has a conversion they would be willing to share/post here.

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