Point buy vs. Array vs. Rolling


3.5/d20/OGL

51 to 59 of 59 << first < prev | 1 | 2 | next > last >>

Most games I've played in I have always opted to use the system of 4d6 drop lowest. It has on occasion given me some pretty bad characters but it doesn't really matter. DnD is not a game where if you roll bad character stats you're gonna be f#*&ed for the entire campaign, use ingenuity and you can end up with a guy that is functionally better than that guy who has 2 18's.

Point buy basically over complicates the simple rolling system. Spend 3 minutes rolling a character or spend 20 minutes wondering how to distribute stat points. I have played a 30 point buy campaign and it was very generic. EVERY character had the exact same stats, just in a different order. So everyone was equal and everyone was very generic. Characters were great in one stat, good in one stat, and everything else was above average or average. It really wasn't even realistic. A priest spending all of his days in a church praying and giving blessings, then having average strength despite lack of physical activity would be kinda weird.

Most of all point buy is bland! Oh your 4th wizard died? Just use the same stats like the last 3 ones you used. And nobody is going to have anything exceptional.

All of those people saying point buy is SOOOOO much better than rolling obviously has never had the joy of playing unique characters and just wants something that they can easily replace and keep going. And complaining about always rolling 10's? Big whoop! I mean seriously if you're crying about not getting high enough stats then either re-roll by tossing the dice differently or just stop playing games that can ever disappoint you, you big baby. Disappointment is part of life, so play your character differently and maybe that one bad stat you have won't be a problem (low intelligence and average wisdom? Use logic instead of facts. High charisma and low strength? Try to find a way to be diplomatic).


Sudokori wrote:
Most games I've played in I have always opted to use the system of 4d6 drop lowest. It has on occasion given me some pretty bad characters but it doesn't really matter. DnD is not a game where if you roll bad character stats you're gonna be f+@*ed for the entire campaign, use ingenuity and you can end up with a guy that is functionally better than that guy who has 2 18's.

Actually, that is wrong. It really depends on your DM. If you have a DM who knows and follows the rules, it does matter. If you have a DM who fudges dice, doesn't care about rules and focuses on storytelling only, it might not.

Sudokori wrote:


Point buy basically over complicates the simple rolling system. Spend 3 minutes rolling a character or spend 20 minutes wondering how to distribute stat points. I have played a 30 point buy campaign and it was very generic. EVERY character had the exact same stats, just in a different order.

So everyone was equal and everyone was very generic. Characters were great in one stat, good in one stat, and everything else was above average or average. It really wasn't even realistic. A priest spending all of his days in a church praying and giving blessings, then having average strength despite lack of physical activity would be kinda weird.

Most of all point buy is bland! Oh your 4th wizard died? Just use the same stats like the last 3 ones you used. And nobody is going to have anything exceptional.

All of those people saying point buy is SOOOOO much better than rolling obviously has never had the joy of playing unique characters and just wants something that they can easily replace and keep going. And complaining about always rolling 10's? Big whoop! I mean seriously if you're crying about not getting high enough stats then either re-roll by tossing the dice differently or just stop playing games that can ever disappoint you, you big baby. Disappointment is part of life, so play your character differently and maybe that one bad stat you have won't be a problem (low intelligence and average wisdom? Use logic instead of facts. High charisma and low strength? Try to find a way to be diplomatic).

I am not sure if belittling people just because they have different preferences from you is a good way to contribute to this discussion.


Matthew Morris wrote:
So how do others handle weaning players down to point buy?

You say: "In this campaign, we use point buy to generate characters."

Problem solved :)


Pathfinder Maps, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

Point buy may take slightly longer -- but you can spend that time before the first session rather than during it, since you don't have to make any dice rolls for your stats in front of the DM.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure, Rulebook Subscriber

Man, been a lot of necromancy lately.

Saern? Eileen? Are they even active here anymore?

Edit: looks like Eileen is still hanging around.

Also, I disagree with just about everything Sudokori said.


According to these statistics, the expected maximum difference between two players when using 4d6 drop lowest for rolling stats is 16 points.

That could be +8 modifier points, and more than the expected unluckiest player has in total.


Eileen is still here. I miss saern.


I prefer rolling. Sometimes you get amazing ability scores - my girlfriend played two paladins because of amazing rolls. The first was 18 18 17 16 12 11 (I witnessed the rolls) and the second one was even better (witnessed by all her fellow players).

Sometimes you get crap stats that barely manage to scrape past that +1 minimum the book suggests even after rerolling a couple times.

If we are playing a high-powered game I allow two sets of scores to be rolled. If we play less powerful I would like to go back to 3d6 in order and one player would be fine with that but two of the others would b!@+~ no end, including the one I live with.

I have played under a couple DMs that prefer point-buy and I always feel as though I'm cheating a bit.
Array is only for unimportant NPCs who need stats in a hurry.


I see lots of arguements about how rolling can have weak PCs compared to others in the same party, but truthfully, I have yet to see any reason to think that the practical power difference is noticable. Theoretical, very real, but during play, not so much.

The only thing I've ever seen that makes me consider something other than rolling is a couple players that literally never roll well for anything (when a player gets 12+ on a d20 an average of once per three months playing weekly is just sad), but then again, that problem goes beyond just ability scores, and ability score bonuses don't help that much.

I like the idea of characters that just have to deal with their deficiencies.

That all said, I think a -1 hurts more than a +1 helps, thus I don't really care much for having scores below 10.

One method I like is to choose class, then roll 4d6 take three, in order, then add up the bonuses. If the total bonuses are negative, take that many d6s (I.E. -3 gives 3d6), randomly place each d6, then roll and add to the scores, repeat until the total bonuses are zero or more. Though, I don't have absolute minimum requirements when I do this, instead I make obstacles to be overcome. For example, lets say a player picks wizard but gets an 8 int, I still allow him to cast spells, but it takes him longer to prepare spells and copy them into his spellbook. Also (and this applies to a wizard with int 12 casting a third level spell) when a wizard tries to cast a spell he doesn't have a high enough stat for, he rolls a spellcraft check dc 10+ wice the spell level, success and the spell works, failure and the spell crashes (though I'm nice and don't consider it spent, so he can try again).

Only done once and it doesn't work with players who want to be stupid uncreative brutes who rush thoughtlessly into any situation as though they are invincible even when I remind them that they will die. So, when I can I prefer creative thoughtful players, a rare thing.

51 to 59 of 59 << first < prev | 1 | 2 | next > last >>
Community / Forums / Gamer Life / Gaming / D&D / 3.5/d20/OGL / Point buy vs. Array vs. Rolling All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.