The most stupid D&D novels: your vote


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Let's get funny, as I'm bored.

What's the worst, the most ridiculous, stupid novel from any D&D arc you ever read?

If I had to choose, I would take the Phlan trilogy. I mean, the bodybuilder wizard girl, the undead priest named Martinez (or Fernandez, don't recall exactly),etc...

It was so stupid it was funny, something that touches the nonsense of some Monty Python sketches, or the z fun of Trauma Productions.

What about you?

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Maps, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Charter Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

_Spellfire_, hands down. All praise be unto Ed for giving us the Realms, blah blah blah, but reading _Spellfire_ was like having a blind idiot insert a catheter for six hours.

I read it when it was released in 1989, and while the details are sketchy now I remember the entire book being Shandril blowing up mountains to take out one dracolich after another. Way to rack up those XPs, girl.

Dark Archive

Oh, I definitely have to second Spellfire.

Awful, awful, awful.


Its a toss up between Flint the King and Kendermore.

In Dragons of Autumn Twilight Flint thinks to himself had sad and dishonorable it was that he got captured by Gully Dwarves and had to stoop to killing the unworthy wretches to escape. But Flint the King presents us with a whimsical romp about silly gully dwarves and their follies in declaring Flint their king . . . making it look like Flint was just grumpy about Gully dwarves and kind of robing that whole sad memory of its power.

And Kendermore . . . I mean . . . Tasslehoff defeats the Dark Queen by accident without even knowing about it, while dodging a half-orc assassin that doesn't actually exist in Krynn. Not to mention, how many fricking portals were there that Takhisis could use to enter Krynn?

But I admit that the "Pools" novels were a very painful, cringeworthy addition to Realms fiction.

Paizo Employee Chief Creative Officer, Publisher

Knight's got it locked down with "Pools of Radiance." Once upon a time I decided I was going to read all of the Realms novels. I started and finished with that one, which was absolute rubbish. I've since read a few more, but that put me off for years.

The problem, plainly, is that Jim Ward is a terrible writer.

I seem to remember something about a talking blue horse in that book, but it's simply too painful.

That said, let us never forget Rose Estes's Mika-Oba Greyhawk books. I think the worst one was "Master Wolf," in which an angry princess is turned into a wolf, raped by another wolf (and impregnated), and when she comes back to human form she kills Iuz. With a dagger. Here are a few choice clips I isolated lo those many years ago:

"Mika grasped the single crystal bead that hung from a fine gold chain around his neck and quickly uttered the words to a simple globe of invulnerability spell.

This spell, which he had taken special care to master, created a magical buffer around his body for five feet in all directions and protected him from spells up to the fourth level of ability.

It seemed unlikely that the old man's [this is Iuz we're talking about, btw] abilities would exceed third level spells."
Master Wolf, p. 115.

"Whoa! Mika's eyes swiveled around, and he saw why he had been on a level with Tam. The spell had worked. He had really done it! He, Mika, a lowly bumbling fourth-level magic user had pulled off a seventh-level skill! Why did everyone think this magic stuff was so hard."
Master Wolf, p. 149-50.

"Men stood in the clearing looking upward, pointing at him as he flew above them. Well, he could fix that, and taking careful aim, Mika squeezed a sphincter muscle and was rewarded by the howls of of the watchers below as they shielded their heads and ran for cover."
Master Wolf, p. 159.

"It seemed apparent that somehow the nomad had persuaded the giant to let him have his way with her, although such a thing seemed unlikely, for the giant loved her too and would never have let another man touch her, unless. . . ! No! It all seemed too terrible to consider! Mika AND the giant?

Hary's mind whirled. Yet think as he might, his thoughts kept returning to the same conclusion."
Master Wolf, p. 222.

"'And just look at me! I'm dirty! I'm filthy! My hair's a mess! My dress. . . my dress, or what little there is left of it, is totally ruined! I even smell bad, if you can even imagine such a thing!'

'I find out I'm not even a virgin anymore, and I don't even remember what happened!'

The princess dispatched Iuz with ease, knocking him to the floor at Hornsbuck's feet, where he lay stunned. Mika almost felt sorry for Iuz. He could have told him even a demon has something to fear from an angry woman."
Master Wolf, p. 308.

Oi.


My eyes!


"Squeezed a sphincter muscle"! That's priceless! ROFL!


Definitely a "forgotten masterpiece" of modern litterature he he :)


I'm putting my vote in for "Lady of Poison" (I think that's what it was called)... I referenced (ranted) this one a little while before RPGSuperstar started.

Basically, there's this cleric, who's a cleric of Meilikki. And his best friend is a brown-skinned naked 'tattooed shaman' from Osztland (that is, Australia) who uses a dizheri (didjeridoo) as a greatclub/bardic music tool. And then there's this other cleric, who's evil, who's a cleric of Talona.... no, this summary is making it seem like it makes too much sense. And it doesn't. Being an Australian, I find this just incomprehensible.

Though I do have to put my votes in for Pools of Radiance and the Mika the Nomad series. However, I think in the end I also have to mention the "First Quest" series, especially "Rogues to Riches", which seems like it may have been the inspiration for Dungeons and Dragons: The Awful Movie.

Two thieves called 'Rengie' and 'Tooles' do a whole lot of funny stuff and accidentally accomplish some useful stuff in the meantime. But the worst parts: it references page numbers (one of the characters does an OotS where they bluff a half-orc, saying "but you don't have a name- that means you're just an encounter... you can't possibly defeat us because we're the main characters." "no, that can't be right, we're not in a book" "Oh yes we are, we're only on page 162, so we have a long way to go to finish our quest") ... awful.

And also: They meet 'Jebb Gruff' and 'Wooly', a pair of designers who are inventing a game in the marketplace:

"It's a game we came up with, except there's no way to win or lose and you don't play on a board or with pieces or anything. Instead, you're a banker or broker or merchant or something. You come up with what you are by rolling these dice and writing numbers on a page- and you live in this far-off world where there is no magic and machines are everything: you ride in them and use them to heat your house and to make things. Anyway-"
"Tell them the name of the land," Woody suggested.
"Here's the kicker," Jebb continued without a moment's pause. "We call it the Foggy Regions because of all the smoke produced from all the machines. In fact we got one huge city on the west coast called Deep Water, the City of Angels, where the smoke is so thick that everybody who lives there is crazy."

Fourth wall? What fourth wall? Let's break it into tiny bits.


There are those who say they love action... well, Shadows of Doom should slake their thirst. It begins nicely enough with Elminster, the Knights of Myth Drannor and Shadowdale stuff, until you hit page 86 (I think). After this, the book is an unceasing fight-fest up until 10 pages before the end. That is over 200 pages of swordfights, wand firings, and killings. This might sound rousing, but get this: there is NO lull in the action. At all. And after the characters have killed hundreds of people, not one of them is even hurt.

So, if you want to read the trilogy, try it without reading the first one. Seriously.

Sovereign Court RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32

On a more recent note, City of Splendors was painful in the extreme. While not featuring the over-the-top stupidity some of the others mentioned, the novel managed to have a huge cast without a single character with believable motivations, had plot holes you could drive several caravans through, and seemed to have been revised several times, each time putting another character in the "main character" slot, never really ending up with any of them.

Honestly, the much-maligned Cleric Quintet was a pleasant read compared to this.


This topic is so rife with possibilities I don't know where to start, so let me take it off topic, slightly...

I agree with the vote for Ed Greenwood. I just tried to start Dark Warrior Rising, his new novel giving his "non-D&D" take on drow. After fifty pages, in which every very short chapter introduces a new set of characters (EVERY. CHAPTER. NEW. CHARACTERS.) and no semblance of plot was to be found, I had to bail...

Love the man and the world he created, but fiction is nowhere near his area of expertise...

Sovereign Court RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8

Funny, I actually liked City of Splendors, well the commoner vs noble angle really called to me.

Spoiler:
though at the end, I was like "What's the big deal? Nobles can't afford a raise dead?"

I'd say 'anything written by Matthew Morris' but I can't finish writing a short story, let alone a novel.

Hmm...

My votes would be for Pool of Radiance, Once Around the Realms, and the entire War of Souls Trilogy. Bless Margaret Weis and the folks at MWP for some wonderful source books, but WoS reaked of 'lets blow up everything of the 5th age, and torque off all the Lord Soth fans too!'

Oh, and Keep on the Borderlands and Against the Giants. Though I loved Tomb of Horrors.

Erik, I had been spared Rose Estes, until now. I must go commit ritual suicide.


"Why Kruelaid doesn't read fan fiction"
-by his fellow Paizo posters


Hehee, I have spotted those Rose Estes books in a second-hand bookstore, now I wonder if I am sorry or not that I didn't buy them...

But anyway, I have obviously read too few D&D novels. Sure, Kendermore didn't make sense but at least it was funny :)
Other than that, I was put off already by Salvatore's Icewind Dale books (read the first, started the second), so I guess it is better that I never touched any Greenwood books...

In some sense that first Dark Sun series was of questionable logic..."here is a new campaign world, but everything you read in this source book will be changed over the first fiction series, enjoy!"

Grand Lodge

Against the giants and Keep on the borderlands by Ru Emerson were terrible, terrible books. Somebody back in the rant thread once suggested that they were part of some TSR plot to kill off the Greyhawk setting, and he might actually be right. Everyone I know came away from those saying they could have written better books themselves. Thomas Reid's write-up of The temple of elemental evil was a little better, but still sucked big-time - in this one, the characters take breaks to level up, and it also has passages to the effect that 'now that he had advanced in power, his magic missiles could reach that far'.

Dragonlance produced a number of memorably bad books. The one I remember the best was Riverwind the plainsman, which seemed to have been written by some out-of-work romance novelist. That one where Tasslehoff saves the world is pretty awful too.

I've ragged on Salvatore's The cleric's quintet for a long time - while I especially despise the dwarven brothers, nobody in that book deserved to make it through their dull, dull adventures alive. Oh, and it features an elven prince called "Elbereth". Gack! Still, for my money, the worst one out there has got to be Ed Greenwood's Spellfire. Wave upon wave upon wave of archmages, dragons and cultists and dracoliches and demons and god knows what else failed to even get close to killing the spellfire-wielding little girl, which a single mook with a crossbow could easily have done by himself. Halfway through, I was rooting for her death; at the end, I had written off the Zhentarim and the Cult of the Dragon as bumbling rubes who couldn't organise a one-horse parade. Lame!

IconoclasticScream wrote:
_Spellfire_, hands down. All praise be unto Ed for giving us the Realms, blah blah blah, but reading _Spellfire_ was like having a blind idiot insert a catheter for six hours.

Buhuuuu....

Dark Archive

DangerDwarf wrote:

Oh, I definitely have to second Spellfire.

Awful, awful, awful.

So glad to see I'm not alone on this one.

I wanted to poke my eyes out from reading this garbage.


Erik Mona wrote:
Mika squeezed a sphincter muscle

I kind of like that part.


I have to add my vote for Spellfire...so far that's about 4 or 5 for Spellfire. I think that puts the book in first place.

Spellfire may have even more votes if people had not actually died from the boredom of reading it. Yes, it's that bad.

Sorry Ed. I do like FR in general. :)

Liberty's Edge RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32, 2011 Top 16

I've read most of the FR books, and while some were certainly bad, there's only one I couldn't get myself to finish - The Council of Blades - which was in the Nobles series. I honestly couldn't tell you in detail why it was so bad, I have thankfully burned the memories out of my brain, but in essence, it a) didn't feel at all like either D&D or FR, and b) I felt that after 100 pages nothing happened (except putting me to sleep.)


Me, personally, I'd say it was "Soldiers of Ice", which was apart of the Harper's series.

Let me explain. I've never read Spellfire, or Pool of Radience, but SoI, ick. The whole plot was this: things are messed up, so heroes devise a plan to fix them, but that plan gets messed up. So a new plan is devised, but that plan also gets messed up. Repeat this process about 7 or 8 more times, there is the book in a nutshell.

Talk about boring me to tears. I guess I got spoiled by Elaine Cunningham's books, which are pretty well written. Learned my lesson...

DogBone


DogBone wrote:

Me, personally, I'd say it was "Soldiers of Ice", which was apart of the Harper's series.

No need to explain. That book alone turned me off all Realms fiction for years. I don't know if it is quite bad enough to claim the title as most stupid D&D novel, but it certainly merits consideration.

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Maps, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Charter Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

I can't believe no one yet has mentioned the Maztica or the Horde trilogies. Not that either featured barwenches blowing the tops off of mountains or anyone's sphincter clenching, but they were both so painfully boring that I felt I was owed an apology for reading any part of them.

Maybe they haven't been mentioned because no one actually read them.

Scarab Sages RPG Superstar 2011 Top 32

I hate to kick a man when he's down, as there seems to be a lot of Greenwood hatin' going on here, but the entire Elminster series is crap IMO. Elminster in Hell singlehandedly kept me from reading another D&D book for about 4 years.

After about 100 pages or so, I just couldn't take it any more. Banished to the darkest corners of my parents' garage, it was finally sold at a garage sale a few years ago.

Some poor kid bought another book and got Elminster in Hell for free with his purchase.


How about all of them?

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Maps, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Charter Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber
Aaron Whitley wrote:
How about all of them?

I wouldn't go that far. For mass-market escapist fantasy trash novels that are just slightly better than being nothing more than commercials for the campaign settings, some of them are entertaining enough to be readable. In one or two exceptional cases, re-readable.


IconoclasticScream wrote:
Aaron Whitley wrote:
How about all of them?
I wouldn't go that far. For mass-market escapist fantasy trash novels that are just slightly better than being nothing more than commercials for the campaign settings, some of them are entertaining enough to be readable. In one or two exceptional cases, re-readable.

Of the whole D&D books I've ever read, the only two that really got me and left me "breathless" were the two first Underdark novels with Drizzt. There was some Michael Moorcock in there, a real sense of tragedy.

Then Drizzt became the pathetic super hero (without tights) we now know... :)


Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path Subscriber

I'd have to second Erik with the Mika books. It's been a decade and a half since I read them, but I still remember how bad they were. I never finished Greyhawk #5, and didn't even try #6.

The problem with Ed Greenwood is that he starts out okay with his books, so you think they might be decent, but then it just devolves into an endless series of battles. I noticed that especially in his Shadows of the Avatar trilogy. It was one big, long battle through three books that turned me off about halfway through the second book.

RPG Superstar 2008 Top 16

The TSR editors may have inflicted some truly pathetic books on unsuspecting gamers, but have you considered the horrors that never made it through their slush pile?

A friend of mine repeatedly submitted story ideas for TSR's consideration: He was a heck of a nice guy, but his writing left something to be desired. TSR's editors never failed to send him a polite and encouraging rejection letter.

After surviving such literary assaults, can you blame them for publishing dreck? Just reading 10 pages of such drivel left me with a passionate desire to smash my friend's typewriter.

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Maps, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Charter Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

Just thought of this stinker...

"Tears so White" by Ed Greenwood (Sorry Ed. Much love and all, but...) from _Realms of the Elves_.

So in the "Last Mythall" trilogy there's a few thousand demon-blooded elves (and their demon pals) taking over the heartland of the Faerunian continent, right? Just for giggles they're being joined by a few thousand Zhents. And they decide to attack right around the old stomping grounds of the Knights of Myth Drannor and Elminster. So why don't the Knights and the Sage of Shadowdale help out? Why don't they call for help from whoever is left of the Seven Sisters?

That's where Ed's meandering anecdote comes in. Turns out some lich (I think it was a lich, I was only hardly paying attention) whisked away anyone with more than five ECLs to Pepperland to fight an endless horde of liches, and everyone was gone just long enough for the demonfae and Zhents to attack the Dalelands.

Maybe someone out there liked it. I guess Ed did. Maybe his editor. But to me it came across like the rambling Feces ex Machina of a mental patient.

(Jesus, I'm bored. School, Heaven help me for saying it, needs to let back in soon.)

Liberty's Edge RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32, 2011 Top 16

IconoclasticScream wrote:

I can't believe no one yet has mentioned the Maztica or the Horde trilogies. Not that either featured barwenches blowing the tops off of mountains or anyone's sphincter clenching, but they were both so painfully boring that I felt I was owed an apology for reading any part of them.

Maybe they haven't been mentioned because no one actually read them.

Actually, I liked both of these trilogies. Maybe because I'm a history fan and liked the non-western europe fantasy of these, but I found nothing bad or boring about these at all. I always wished that there had been a book line tie in for Al-Qadim as well.

Dark Archive

Never read the Horde trilogy, but I did read the Maztica one. I actually liked it.

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Maps, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Charter Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber
JoelF847 wrote:
Actually, I liked both of these trilogies. Maybe because I'm a history fan and liked the non-western europe fantasy of these, but I found nothing bad or boring about these at all. I always wished that there had been a book line tie in for Al-Qadim as well.

I'm a fan of history too, and I think that was the problem. There was nothing new in those books. Ghengis Khan and Cortez with spells. Yawn. There was so much that could have been done with the settings but nothing good was. That's not creative and exciting to me; that's just lazy.


Oh God... My post about Shadows of Doom was only because I had completely forgotten about Elminster in Hell.

It ranks as one of the few books I've consciously decided to stop reading.

Compared to it, Shadows of Doom is wonderful. Compared to it, Spellfire rules. And hey, Ed has written many books that are great reads, for example Elminster in Myth Drannor.

Liberty's Edge

Blue_eyed_paladin wrote:
Fourth wall? What fourth wall? Let's break it into tiny bits.

Never did like that fourth wall in the first place.

Liberty's Edge

While not terrible in the sense of the 'Mika' books, the "T.H. Lain" third edition 'iconic' promo novels were absolutely riddled with typos, some of which would have impressed William Clark in their creativity. One would be amazed at the number of ways you can spell 'mephit' (mepit, mefit, mephitt), 'kobold' (kobald, koblod, koblode, kobolt), 'otyugh' (otyug, ogyug, ogyugh), or even 'Gruumsh' (Gruush, Gruunsh, Gruumch, Grunch). Some of these monstrous misspellings were almost Kingdom of Loathing -esque in their stupidity ('zmobie', 'dagron', 'oc', 'skleleton', 'flamiliar', 'worb', 'sorceror', 'whight', etc...). Sooooomeone needs a word processor. Or an editor, for that matter.


I'm not a D&D fiction fan, but I am (for once, unfortunately) an inveterate Greyhawk fan -- so I've read two of Rose Estes' books.

I'll put them up against anything else here.

My eyes still burn from reading them :(


I read quite a lot of the fiction, though I don't buy most of it myself. For sheer dreadfulness, the Baldur's Gate novelisations take a lot of beating.


Baldur's Gate by Philip Athans.

(ha, just saw the post directly above mine)

Sadly, this novel killed my wife's interest in the Realms.


Yeah, I'm going to offer a third vote toward the Baldur's Gate books. I didn't know the Realms had ball gags, but there it is.

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Maps, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Charter Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber
James Keegan wrote:
I didn't know the Realms had ball gags, but there it is.

You need to read more about the church of Loviatar. :)


IconoclasticScream wrote:
James Keegan wrote:
I didn't know the Realms had ball gags, but there it is.
You need to read more about the church of Loviatar. :)

See, that's a novel that needs to be written right there. People think,"Oh, the Realms. Elminster and all these elves running around messing with shit and then Mystra shows up and she's like,"Thank you Elminster for messing with shit, you're my hero!"

But let me tell you something: Loviatar, the goddess of bondage (yeah, yeah, "there's more to her than bondage" give me a break) isn't a minor or hero deity. She's got a decent divine rank. Which means there are a lot of people "worshipping" the "Maiden of Pain". Why aren't there more novels about this, eh? There's a lot of freaks out there in the Realms that would give the setting a harder (or, if you prefer, "barely legal") edge without destroying years of history that Realms fans know and love.

Sovereign Court RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8

Agreed, the church of Loviatar has always facinated me.

How does a LN cleric of Loviatar work?

How does a NE cleric of Loviatar work?

How does the public react to her acts of mercy?

I could picture her and Siamorphe having a rivalry (goddess of nobility vs. goddess of jaded pleasure)

Are clerics of Loviatar experts in contracts(they are in my world)

Why does the lawful evil church hate Ilmater so much? I mean if one agreed to inflict pain on the other, that's the height of law, right? two people agreeing to specific roles?

Dark Archive

S&M Goddess?!?!?!?

My interest in the Realms has increased by exactly 16.371%

I demand a fully illustrated sourcebook.

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Maps, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Charter Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber
James Keegan wrote:

See, that's a novel that needs to be written right there. People think,"Oh, the Realms. Elminster and all these elves running around messing with s#!~ and then Mystra shows up and she's like,"Thank you Elminster for messing with s#!~, you're my hero!"

But let me tell you something: Loviatar, the goddess of bondage (yeah, yeah, "there's more to her than bondage" give me a break) isn't a minor or hero deity. She's got a decent divine rank. Which means there are a lot of people "worshipping" the "Maiden of Pain".

Oh, don't worry, I'm not missing a beat on the whole Loviatar: Behind the Music thing. What I loved about some of the 3E products that dealt with her is that they didn't shy away from the portrayals of her priests as sadists, masochists, and fetishists. I mean, look at the picture of her in _Faiths and Pantheons_. There are people who pay good money to see a woman dressed like that, not to mention the freaking suspension hooks in her back.

James Keegan wrote:
Why aren't there more novels about this, eh? There's a lot of freaks out there in the Realms that would give the setting a harder (or, if you prefer, "barely legal") edge without destroying years of history that Realms fans know and love.

When I was reading Kameron M Franklin's _Maiden of Pain_, book III of the Priests series (and actually a fairly decent novel for what it is), I couldn't help but think that the author had done at least a little research into BDSM. Ythnel, the protagonist, is a perfect example of a LN cleric of Loviatar who uses pain as a means of control, order, and discipline. There's no "adult content" (and I think my head would have exploded if there was some bumbling sex scene in a D&D book), but there are a few parts of the book that made me chuckle thinking of the education some fourteen-year-old would get if he was to read the book.

Perfect example- the book ends with Ythnel, who's maybe in her early twenties, talking to the much younger girl who she's the nanny to as well as "spiritual advisor":

"Well, I guess that leaves just us," Ythnel said, looking over at her young ward. "Why don't we head upstairs and get ready for bed. We have an early ride in the morning."

"Yes, Mistress Ythnel."

The safeword is "banana", indeed.


Does anyone remember the Penhaligon Trilogy written supposedly for the Mystara setting? I don´t recall too many details, but I remember that part of these books contradicted the official lore about Mystara - so much so as to be irreconcilable with the setting. I hate it when an author does little to no research about the setting he supposedly writes for.

(I count myself lucky that I never got my hands on the Rose Estes greyhawk books... They had to turn up in a thread like this.)

Stefan


Stebehil wrote:
Does anyone remember the Penhaligon Trilogy written supposedly for the Mystara setting?

Yes, unfortunately, I do. They started out OK (not having played Mystara, I didn't have any problems with continuity, etc) but the first book introduces a really interesting tortured hero... then kills him.

The second book waffles on a bit, then the third book

Spoiler:
just kills the entire kingdom and leaves about 5 people alive in total. WTH!?!?!


Anything by Salvatore - there are some good pulpy sword and sorcery bits in the Icewind Dale trilogy but... he is terrible with names, terrible, abysmally so. And his dialogue leaves a lot to be desired.


Oooooooh, concerning names, there is NO book with worse names than Lost Library of Cormanthor, by Mel Odom. The main villain, if I recall, is a lich called the tongue-massacrating Nevfpht Scoontiphft. You must forgive me if the spelling is somewhat off. =) Other than that, I liked the book and his writing, but the names... *shudder*

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