Who's in your 5?


RPG Superstar™ 2008 General Discussion

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My top 5 in no particular order:

Land of the Stained Peaks
Vraimare
Iskandria
Yithnai
Malar


thatboomerkid wrote:
Also: I request your vote.

Heh, so noted! ...though I actually don't think you're going to be hurting for votes, Boomer. Grognards asside there are alot of us who appreciate the anime/video game influence (though I prefer Monster:Assault to Mountain Dew these days).

Still, I may just completely change my strategy later depending on how many people post in this thread. After all if this doesn't seem a large enough group to serve as a representative sample then I can't use it as a base, now can I?

Dark Archive Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4

Nem-Z wrote:
thatboomerkid wrote:
Also: I request your vote.

Heh, so noted! ...though I actually don't think you're going to be hurting for votes, Boomer. Grognards asside there are alot of us who appreciate the anime/video game influence (though I prefer Monster:Assault to Mountain Dew these days).

Still, I may just completely change my strategy later depending on how many people post in this thread. After all if this doesn't seem a large enough group to serve as a representative sample then I can't use it as a base, now can I?

Oh, crap - you're probably right. Self-selecting un-adjusted sample, user-regulated/modified content, plus the whole Heisenberg uncertainty principle . . .

I think you'd better toss a vote towards a guy who ALSO prefers Monster:Assault.

You know. Just in case.

Legendary Games, Necromancer Games

I was bummed that I only had 5 votes to cast. I wish I had changed the rules to make is 8 :) Picking that last vote from several real contenders was very hard.

Dark Archive Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4

Clark Peterson wrote:
I was bummed that I only had 5 votes to cast. I wish I had changed the rules to make is 8 :) Picking that last vote from several real contenders was very hard.

You did the right thing, Clark. It was a hard decision, but . . . you did the right thing.

I say this, of course, assuming that you voted for me.


Starglim wrote:


And there's the danger. Everyone in this thread, and others, could do so.

I've voted based on my opinion of which countries deserve to reach the next round and won't change my vote.

Yup, I was tempted to not vote for Iskandria and instead go for, say, Beria or Terram (which was rather nice entry too, good luck!) but no, I will vote for the five I liked the best.

Not that this exitpolling affects that strongly itself (though I do understand the decision of keeping the official situation secret), reading commentaries it was quite clear in many cases which countries will pass with flying colors and which are more borderline.

RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32 aka Aotrscommander

Well, I'll celebrate my two honourable mentions, seeing as I think that's the best I'll get! By this point, it was rather more than I expected...

Maybe next year...


Those totals posted in this thread only cover a small subset of the voting public. (For example, I haven't posted my top 5.) So it's very possible that someone you think is a lock for the top 16 isn't, and someone who's on the bubble is doing much better than you think.

Given that, I'm voting for my favorite 5. I'd hate to think that an entry that I really liked just missed the top 16 because I was being cute with my votes.

The Exchange

Pallen I agree 100% and that is one of the problems with posting the statistics.

Also I wonder if people who vote for the less popular entries may avoid disclosing for fear of ridicule etc.

Cheers

RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32 , Star Voter Season 7

magdalena thiriet wrote:
Terram (which was rather nice entry too, good luck!)

It'd be better luck if you voted for it.

In all seriousnesss, voting public, what can I do to win your vote?


well just to respond to the guy who made terrum here's a little bit of why i vote or not vote.

First of all I really liked your entry, it was solid but it seemed to lack pizzaz. So we have this bronze age nation (which i love the idea of , I think that your attention and historcity is noteworthy) that is sandwiched between the mountains to the north and the sea to the south.and it has a government and they have lots of bronze)copper/zink etc

But you didn't really mention any personalities or conflict that can characterize the region. It comes off very bleh. Whereas the Blink Dog nation their is trouble concieving of how to get the characters to stay put to actuaully deal with all the crap going on (Blink Dogs, Phase Spiders, and Goblins oh my) the problem with your nation is you have this perfectly suitable nation for doing stuff (LN like most of the other nations really ought to be, the idea of a Chaotic nation stretched credibility within me, so all these free roaming fun loving oppression hating guys are sticking around for what reason again?) but not much to do,

We find out their are elected seats, the place has a king, that their are dwarfs and goblins presumably to the north both of which can make trouble, but you never defined what trouble has been their right to the north. I'm gonna vote for your nation not because its awesome, but because it can play the straight man to the other peoples comedian, bizarro entries (I actually think placing your nation to the north of Yithnai and west of Ghost Hound Plains would be awesome but unless you direct me to this use its gonna take time I'm probably not gonna give you to get there and therefore you don't get a vote.

and yeah ask for votes , campaign, be personable I think is a good thing, I think the other two nations I mentioned (Ghosts Hounds and Yithnai) are going to do well not necessarily because they are the greatest nations ever, but because they have certainly been more visable than some other contestants (the nation in a bottle entry for example)

we'll im off to vote for you now, enjoy ihope my thoughts help

PS VOTE FOR THIS GUY< AND GHOST HOUNDS AND YITHNAI AND THE OTHERS I VOTE FOR BECAUSE I LIKE THEM AND THEREFORE THEY ARE BETTER!

RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32 aka Aotrscommander

pallen wrote:

Those totals posted in this thread only cover a small subset of the voting public. (For example, I haven't posted my top 5.) So it's very possible that someone you think is a lock for the top 16 isn't, and someone who's on the bubble is doing much better than you think.

Given that, I'm voting for my favorite 5. I'd hate to think that an entry that I really liked just missed the top 16 because I was being cute with my votes.

True, but it's in line with the feedback I've been getting, so while I'm awaiting the final results, unless the silent majority have very much differing opinions, I'm taking the pragmatic view.

Who knows? I might be pleasently suprised yet. (Past (un)life experience tells me otherwise though!)

Liberty's Edge

Alright Superstars, I’ve voted. Selecting those last two entries to vote for was an extremely tough decision, let me tell you. There are so many great entries, you should all be really proud of your work. Good luck!


I liked this round quite a bit and my list of people’s entries that I liked or like significant parts is not short at all. There was a lot of variety no just in content but in form that will play to some people’s likes/dislikes more so then others. It proved really challenging to decide where I should cast each and everyone of my votes.
I the end they all went to people that I feel did a great job and I want to see continue on that might need my support because they are not the top favourites which are clearly emerging and understandable so.
I just want to congratulate all of you, there are no true losers among you and you all made it farther then me :P

oh yeah I am not telling just who you are, though some of my comments earlier leave some pretty non vague cliue for their authors.


A delicious tasting party, even though I had to provide my own wine
and cheese. Based on a variety of factors including novelty (yet
connectivity for my players), potential for riveting campaigns, and
the author's writing capability, I have cast my votes for the
following countries:
Yithnai
Cyrehllan
Stained Peaks
Iskandria
Eluraelon

I rest my palate for the next round.


With a new total of 44 reported voters (and a few votes still floating, apparantly)...

EXIT POLLS wrote:


35 Land of the Stained Peaks
30 Iskandria
27 Yithnai
20 Carnamach
15 Bereket
14 Ghost Hound Kinships
13 Vramaire
10 Cyrehllan
10 Karistynia
09 Eluraelon
08 Kestria
07 Akram Zafir
06 Beria
04 Olanra
03 Draeth
03 Malar
~~~~~
02 Moros Akalein
02 Saran
02 Terram
01 Agregia
01 Iolandis
01 Spine Peaks
01 Steppenland
01 Ulmlinzi-Kiwanja
00 Calidune
00 Cumavea
00 Drei-Conita
00 Idalia
00 Kerpiquan
00 Laraklan
00 Nelvia
00 Vendithian Union

The Exchange RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16

Mine:

Spine Peaks -- Good crunchy mechanics included. One of the best entries in which to set a campaign.
Beria -- When --not if-- I use this at my table, the were-elephants are going to be hill giants, rather than humans; but yeah, this is made of fun.
Bereket -- I like the role-playing conflicts set up here.
Yithnai -- Best evil place I've ever seen. Eeek.
Olanra -- I decided to vote for the entirely-undersea community, rather than its coral above-and-below-the-surface competition, because the all-undersea entry is more challenging. And, I think more successful in some ways. Someone asked "how do they interact with surface societies?" and I think the answer is pretty clear: not well.

Liberty's Edge RPG Superstar 2008 Top 8

Nem-Z wrote:

With a new total of 44 reported voters (and a few votes still floating, apparantly)...

02 Saran

Sorry, but just for clarification I find 3 mentions of Saran in a top 5.

Talion09
Matrissa the Enchantress
Nem-Z

Thank you all for your support. I do appreciate it, and will do my best to come up with a much better name for my villain if I do advance to Round 3. Perhaps Grondosh the Oblitorator, 1/2 Orc Barbarian/Bard, whose poetry is reminiscent of Douglas Adams Vogons in causing peoples ears to bleed and heads to explode.

Dark Archive

I love that both Iskandria and Yithnai seem be doing so well. I bit the bullet and picked only one, because I didn't think that two vaguely Egyptian / Robert E Howard-feeling settings would be able to generate that much interest.

Scarab Sages Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4, Legendary Games

Set wrote:

I love that both Iskandria and Yithnai seem be doing so well. I bit the bullet and picked only one, because I didn't think that two vaguely Egyptian / Robert E Howard-feeling settings would be able to generate that much interest.

Make it three if you count Bereket was having an REH feel to it. And it is a desert setting, if not precisely Egyptian.

Glad to see gamers out there who still go way back for their literary influences.


Man those countries were fun to read!

I'm not breaking any new ground with my choices - but I do think that in itself is telling. It just shows that many of us immediately recognized and responded to certain entries. Entries that were written extremely well considering the parameters of the contest. There were many others that had a single great idea or maybe a few well written sentences but just didn't have all the pieces of the puzzle.

Considering that the winners of this round need to not only provide a solid, workable D&D country, but also need to show they can stick to a theme, showcase writing talent, creativity, and an understanding of what players and DMs alike want . . . only a few really stood out to me. I have to agree with Clark -- I could've cast a vote for 8 country entries, but that being said, a few would've been ones that didn't have it all, but that I saw promise in. So I have to agree that 5 was the best way to go - it MADE me really look closely at my top 8 and whittle them down.

Anyway - congrats to all 32 to that made it this far and good luck to you all. My votes (in no real order of preference) went to:

Freeholds of Karistynia
Cyrehllan
Land of Stained Peaks
Bereket
Iskandria

Scarab Sages

ancientsensei wrote:

Nem-Z: I got no complaints for the way anyone votes, anyone pimps, or anyone metagames.It's a contest and all parts of the contestr are in play.

I want everyone to abide by rules and have good taste and sportsmanship. Out of that, you got no argument from me.

Now: who's running Iskandria?

I will. I'm just trying to decide on whether to add it to a current campaign or start a new one. Tough decision all around.


Fair enough... I'll go back and recount from the beginning.

My running totals did not match Starglim's, which I had been just adding to. I suspect we may have counted 'unsure' votes differently or perhaps one of us counted the same person twice. It's kinda hard to keep all this straight and it's entirely possible that either (or both?) of us messed up somewhere.

Also simply adding up the total + floaters and dividing it by 5 results in 53.8, so I know I'm still off somewhere but I can't seem to find the problem. Anybody willing to double check me?

EXIT POLLS wrote:


54 TOTAL REPORTING VOTERS
17 TOTAL 'FLOATING' VOTES
~~~~~
36 Stained Peaks
32 Iskandria
32 Yithnai
22 Carnamach
19 Bereket
15 Ghost Hound Kinships
13 Karistynia
13 Vramaire
12 Cyrehllan
09 Eluraelon
09 Kestria
08 Akram Zafir
08 Beria
05 Olanra
~~~~~
03 Draeth
03 Saran
03 Terram
~~~~~
02 Malar
02 Moros Akalein
02 Spine Peaks
01 Agregia
01 Iolandis
01 Steppenland
01 Ulmlinzi-Kiwanja
00 Calidune
00 Cumavea
00 Drei-Conita
00 Idalia
00 Kerpiquan
00 Laraklan
00 Nelvia
00 Vendithian Union

Grand Lodge Dedicated Voter Season 6, Star Voter Season 7, Dedicated Voter Season 8

Nem-Z wrote:

Fair enough... I'll go back and recount from the beginning.

My running totals did not match Starglim's, which I had been just adding to. I suspect we may have counted 'unsure' votes differently or perhaps one of us counted the same person twice. It's kinda hard to keep all this straight and it's entirely possible that either (or both?) of us messed up somewhere.

Also simply adding up the total + floaters and dividing it by 5 results in 53.8, so I know I'm still off somewhere but I can't seem to find the problem. Anybody willing to double check me?

That's highly possible. I counted 'unsure' votes but didn't count posters who were still reading other entries or still deciding on some of their votes.

Some people didn't use five votes or didn't disclose all their votes.


Unfortunately, three votes is all I needed.

Land of the Stained Peaks
Iskandria
Yithnai

Some others peaked a little interest, but in the end their entries were not what I wanted out of this contest.

I hope to see more in the next round - for those who make it, step up your game. It is time to get hungry.


Starglim wrote:

That's highly possible. I counted 'unsure' votes but didn't count posters who were still reading other entries or still deciding on some of their votes.

Some people didn't use five votes or didn't disclose all their votes.

Yeah, I counted unsure and 'not done yet' votes (unless they later updated to clarify that, of course!) and kept a running tab of unused or unrevealed votes as 'floaters'.

I also decided in the end to just go all-underdog on my votes, swtiching out Beria for the only country on my list that's getting no love so far, Kerpiquan. Hey, why not?

So, my final vote tally goes to:

Kerpiquan
Spine Peaks
Agregia
Saran
Terram

...and I hope the other 11 will be okay without me.


In no particular order:

Bereket
Iskandria
Carnamach
Cyrehllan
Yithnai

I guess I just can't get enough of the REH/HPL stuff, which goes a long way towards explaining the shelves of various Conan-y/Cthulhu goodness that fills my apartment.

Honorable mention goes to the Blink Dogs, who nearly yip-yapped their way into my top 5. I could clearly envision evocative Wayne Reynolds covers for the others (I want him to start drawing Her Most Regal Majestrix Sephrilara Bai first thing tomorrow morning! That might win "Sexiest name I've read all year."), and tribal imagery or no, the Dogs just didn't pass muster on that score. Although, now that I think about it, a Kyle Hunter cover perhaps...

I am somewhat gratified to see that barring catastrophe, he'll get through to the next round although I didn't game my votes to account for any of that. I merely voted top 5 and let the chips fall where they may.


I must say it was a hard choice for some, but when it came down to it, I picked the ones I felt had an eye catching opening and interesting secrets to discover or hear about.

Carnamach
My overall favorite, it got my ears peaked at the very beginning with the idea of a dying God being the ruler. The old ruined cities being eaten up by forests! The ever growing tower! And ending it with the idea that they fed off a God who wanted to die! I'm still overly happy with the idea!
Cyrehllan
I'm a big fan of a nation being headed by regions, especially if those regions have an importance to the overall well being of the land. Every Prince has his own ways of ruling hoping to one day get his place at the thrown. It was well written in such a way that my dyslexia didn't get the best of me.
Land of the Stained Peaks
I told my boyfriend I wanted one of these entries to scream harsh and technology... obviously hoping for something dwarven that was new and fresh. This one caught my attention! The GM notes about the slaves and the monsters... I was drooling!
Moros Akalein
It caught my eye first up with the Wandering part for sure. As I read into it, the artifact hit me as a wonderful idea for such a concept. It has adventure written all over it, along with the idea of protecting it from those pesky dragons!
Kestria
The Unseen, wow what a great idea. I loved the way you laid out the land so any number of things could go on. Especially because the layout lends itself to horrible things happening to its occupants. The DM section gave me a twist I liked! Its really killing itself from the inside out! Brilliant!

EXIT POLLS wrote:


38 Stained Peaks
34 Iskandria
34 Yithnai
24 Carnamach
20 Bereket
15 Ghost Hound Kinships
14 Cyrehllan
13 Karistynia
13 Vramaire
10 Kestria
09 Eluraelon
08 Akram Zafir
08 Beria
05 Olanra
04 Saran
04 Terram
~~~~~~~~~~
03 Draeth
03 Moros Akalein
03 Spine Peaks
02 Agregia
02 Malar
01 Iolandis
01 Kerpiquan
01 Steppenland
01 Ulmlinzi-Kiwanja
00 Calidune
00 Cumavea
00 Drei-Conita
00 Idalia
00 Laraklan
00 Nelvia
00 Vendithian Union


Um, actually 4/5 of my votes were already in the running total... I just changed one of them. My bad for not being clear.

EXIT POLLS wrote:


57 TOTAL REPORTING VOTERS
19 TOTAL 'FLOATING' VOTES
~~~~~
38 Stained Peaks
34 Iskandria
34 Yithnai
24 Carnamach
20 Bereket
15 Ghost Hound Kinships
14 Cyrehllan
13 Karistynia
13 Vramaire
10 Kestria
09 Eluraelon
08 Akram Zafir
07 Beria
05 Olanra
~~~~~
03 Draeth
03 Moros Akalein
03 Saran
03 Terram
~~~~~
02 Malar
02 Spine Peaks
01 Agregia
01 Kerpiquan
01 Iolandis
01 Steppenland
01 Ulmlinzi-Kiwanja
00 Calidune
00 Cumavea
00 Drei-Conita
00 Idalia
00 Laraklan
00 Nelvia
00 Vendithian Union


That's kind of funny. I just finished voting about 5 minutes before the deadline and looking at the exit polls and 3 of my votes went to those that had none or 1 vote.

My for sure votes were: Iolandis, Beria, and Yithnai. My other 2 were Cumavea and Steppenland. My other 2 possibles were Stained Peaks and Iskandria the 2 big winners. I promise, I didn't look at this thread before I voted.

EXIT POLLS wrote:


58 TOTAL REPORTING VOTERS
19 TOTAL 'FLOATING' VOTES
~~~~~
38 Stained Peaks
34 Iskandria
35 Yithnai
24 Carnamach
20 Bereket
15 Ghost Hound Kinships
14 Cyrehllan
13 Karistynia
13 Vramaire
10 Kestria
09 Eluraelon
08 Akram Zafir
08 Beria
05 Olanra
~~~~~
03 Draeth
03 Moros Akalein
03 Saran
03 Terram
~~~~~
02 Malar
02 Spine Peaks
01 Agregia
01 Kerpiquan
02 Iolandis
02 Steppenland
01 Ulmlinzi-Kiwanja
00 Calidune
01 Cumavea
00 Drei-Conita
00 Idalia
00 Laraklan
00 Nelvia
00 Vendithian Union

RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32 , Star Voter Season 7

I'm on the bubble! All I can do now is hope.


For me...

Freeholds of Karistyna
Stained Peaks
Bereket
Cumavea
Yithnai

Bring on round 3,
Goo


Well Ross they said you had 5 votes, not that you had to vote for 5 different entries. Just vote for yourself 5 times and everything should work out fine. I really do hope to see you in top 16, I thought your writing was probably the cleanest and most professional sounding of the 32. Unfortunately your idea didn't wow me but I definitely liked it better than a bunch of the others.


I'll be curious how this thread predicts the results. Clark says that the actual votes are 5 countries and everyone else. That differs pretty dramatically from our list.

Here we have three and then a big drop:

38 Stained Peaks
34 Iskandria
34 Yithnai

I'd say this predicts success for those three pretty strongly. However, after this we start having only 2-5 vote differences in any drop. Thus, we really don't have a strong prediction beyond the top 3.

Clark also stated that nothing advanced with only 25 votes, so we also know that this is an extremely small sampling. Not that there was ever anything scientific about our thread.

Can't wait to see how closely our 16 compare to the actual 16.


propeliea wrote:

I'll be curious how this thread predicts teh results. Clark says taht the actual votes are 5 countries and everyone else. That actual differs pretty dramtically from our list.

Here we have three and then a big drop:

38 Stained Peaks
34 Iskandria
34 Yithnai

I'd say that predicts success for those three pretty strongly. However, after this we start having only 2-5 vote differences in any drop. Thus, we really don't have a strong prediction beyond the top 3.

Clark also stated that nothing advanced with only 25 votes, so we also know that this is an extremely small sampling. Not that there was ever anything scientific about our thread.

Can't wait to see how closely our 16 compare to the actual 16.

Well, I voted not completely with the Top Three:

Carnamach
Cyrehllan
Karistynia
Vramaire
Stained Peaks (THERE'S my Top Three vote...)

Legendary Games, Necromancer Games

Ragwaine wrote:
Well Ross they said you had 5 votes, not that you had to vote for 5 different entries. Just vote for yourself 5 times

That doesnt work.

Legendary Games, Necromancer Games

It sure will be interesting to see how this matches up. :)

I can tell you, it isnt exact. But a good portion of it is right. Now, I guess that means you dont know which portion is right and which is wrong.

There is at least 1 you have losing that is in fact advancing. Which means there is at least one you have winning that is not. :)

Oh, I'm so evil...

Marathon Voter Season 6, Dedicated Voter Season 7, Marathon Voter Season 8, Star Voter Season 9 aka Clouds Without Water

Clark Peterson wrote:

It sure will be interesting to see how this matches up. :)

I can tell you, it isnt exact. But a good portion of it is right. Now, I guess that means you dont know which portion is right and which is wrong.

There is at least 1 you have losing that is in fact advancing. Which means there is at least one you have winning that is not. :)

Oh, I'm so evil...

Probably Cyrehllan that's not advancing. Too hard to pronounce. Too many long character names in the entry.


Olanra on down is effectively a tie given the format.

I think anything with 20 or more votes would be an upset to miss the cut. Over 10 only a mild upset. Just too small a sampling.

Definitely an aspect of the contest I'd like to keep checking into each round.

RPG Superstar 2008 Top 16 aka amusingsn

I have a feeling the Ghost Hounds didn't do as well as the exit polls seemed to indicate, with all votes counted. I have a feeling the self-selecting sampling of the this thread may have slanted the statistics in favor of "people who like what they like and don't care what other people think."

I still have my fingers crossed!


I'd like to know at least how many people voted in this round, just to see if we have a statistically significant sample (58) or not. If, say, only 200 people voted, I'd say your top ten are a lock.

Legendary Games, Necromancer Games

I should also let people know that there are NO entries that got NO votes. Nobody got a goose egg.


Clark Peterson wrote:
Ragwaine wrote:
Well Ross they said you had 5 votes, not that you had to vote for 5 different entries. Just vote for yourself 5 times
That doesnt work.

It does on the site that I created where my name is on the list! And the other 32 all got 0 votes too. I win!

Actually, as a marketing researcher, my observation is that this sample (people who have time to spend reading all these boards and are so geeked about the contest that they must analyze every aspect of it) is not a representative sample of the total voting sample. So it should be different. But it was a very cool idea and fun anyway.


It's skewed, but not as skewed as most Internet forums I suspect. Main reason is that you must come to the board to vote--no other method of voting. You also had to come to the board to read the entries.

Pretty much this sample does suggest a higher level of interest than average, but not so much as you might suspect from other areas of research. Much closer to a true exit poll at that point. Voluntary requests at the polling place. We shall see.


Clark Peterson wrote:
I should also let people know that there are NO entries that got NO votes. Nobody got a goose egg.

I expect the bare minimum to be one vote--and everyone is bound to have 5 friends they can hasle into registering for a Paizo account. ;)

Scarab Sages

Clark Peterson wrote:
I should also let people know that there are NO entries that got NO votes. Nobody got a goose egg.

Dare we ask - how many got one vote, from their author?


Actually I expect that the blink dogs and mountain-dew-fueled nations were the other two top contenders based on post counts and overall board presence.

Just a hunch.

I'm also wondering whether Clark is including the 'on the bubble' group as in or out for the purposes of his cryptic clue.

Dark Archive Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4

Clouds Without Water wrote:

Probably Cyrehllan that's not advancing. Too hard to pronounce. Too many long character names in the entry.

Man, I hope not. That one is, like, my mom's favorite entry!

Legendary Games, Necromancer Games

Nem-Z wrote:
Actually I expect that the blink dogs and mountain-dew-fueled nations were the other two top contenders based on post counts and overall board presence.

Nope, they were NOT top 5.

No more comments on who was or wasnt.


Clark Peterson wrote:
Nem-Z wrote:
Actually I expect that the blink dogs and mountain-dew-fueled nations were the other two top contenders based on post counts and overall board presence.

Nope, they were NOT top 5.

No more comments on who was or wasnt.

Man, Clark beat me to it.

I wouldn't expect them to be top 5 based on board reaction. I think these both fall in the 11-20 range, as a wild and inexact (and possibly inaccurate) hunch.

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