Bella Sara Charter Superscriber
|
A dungeon, while it might put some walls between you and your enemy, actually limits the distance and direction you can teleport. In an open environment even assuming an unrealistically flat landscape with no cover of any kind you dimension door 720 feet (400 feet +40/caster level, cast at 8th level) as a free action every round, and then run 80 feet on top of that. That's 800 feet away in one round. A monster with a speed of 60 takes a full round to run at you, you're still 680 feet away (which is a difficult shot with a longbow even if the blink dog couldn't blink and the enemy hadn't used its whole round moving). That's totally ignoring the cover and hiding places you can find even in rolling plains. How is that not effective? Personally, I think the ability is more useful in this environment than in a dungeon.
Again. Not saying it is not effective in the absolute. Saying it is more effective in other environments. As for being more useful on a the plains than in a dungeon, that's just incorrect. 800' away in one round still gives the creature an opportunity to catch you. You _could_ be hit by a bow. You could be hit by a long range spell. If you are 800' away and there is 195' of granite between you and the target, none of those things will be true.
Not terribly relevant to the design of the country, I admit, but for some reason I'm feeling compelled to argue the point. Have you ensorcelled me?
Everyone has a talent.
Not terribly relevant to the design of the country, I admit, but for some reason I'm feeling compelled to argue the point. Have you ensorcelled me?
The blink dogs need all the love you can muster, so thank you! Think Blink, and don't forget to toss me a vote, as every one will make a huge difference!
The question isn't whether you want an animal campaign, the question is do you see the possibility of an original environment in which standard characters could adventure? I think it's a resounding yes, and some solid writing that speak to greater potential alter on.
You have to be careful what you reward here. Rewarding the comfortable might have obvious drawbacks. There's over 30 years of D&D writing, it'd be nice to have some incentives beyond the (fantastically) mundane.
You _could_ be hit by a bow. You could be hit by a long range spell. If you are 800' away and there is 195' of granite between you and the target, none of those things will be true.
Well, you do have a point there, yes. But you're still assuming that you've only teleported straight away on the plains where they enemy can still see you. Believe me, there's plenty of cover of rolling plains, made all the more effective when your enemy doesn't actually see you go behind it.
I think the real point I'm trying to make here is why the heck would a blink dog want to live in a dungeon anyway?
You _could_ be hit by a bow. You could be hit by a long range spell. If you are 800' away and there is 195' of granite between you and the target, none of those things will be true.Well, you do have a point there, yes. But you're still assuming that you've only teleported straight away on the plains where they enemy can still see you. Believe me, there's plenty of cover of rolling plains, made all the more effective when your enemy doesn't actually see you go behind it.
I think the real point I'm trying to make here is why the heck would a blink dog want to live in a dungeon anyway?
Because it's tactical! We should all live in them!
(innocent humor to remind that flavor doesn't have to match optimal crunch)
|
Bella Sara Charter Superscriber
|
Well, you do have a point there, yes. But you're still assuming that you've only teleported straight away on the plains where they enemy can still see you. Believe me, there's plenty of cover of rolling plains, made all the more effective when your enemy doesn't actually see you go behind it.
I'm only assuming that plains have the least cover as compared to just about any other terrain type, which I believe is a reasonable assumption. I'm not saying there is no cover on the plains, but there is substantially more cover in a forest, swamp, mountain range, cave system, a city, etc. More cover = more places to hide = easier to hide = easier to teleport and hide.
I suppose that the ocean, arctic tundra, and maybe deserts have less cover, but that's about it.
I think the real point I'm trying to make here is why the heck would a blink dog want to live in a dungeon anyway?
Better rent?
|
Blink Dogs?!? Wow … my initial thought was interesting idea …. but I don’t think it gets my vote. But upon realising that Sebastian and Takasi hated it, I’m rethinking that … ;-)
In all seriousness, I’m not sure whether to vote for this or not. I think it’s very original and well written, and a good take on not just a non human, but a non-vaguely even humanoid civilisation – and I think D&D needs more of those with all these intelligent non humanoid races running around out there.
I don’t have a problem with blink dogs, or with them living in plains (plains after all do not have to be perfectly flat expanses of featureless grasslands). I don’t have a problem that my character “can’t come from this country”; and as has been pointed out, they can.
I’m still not sure if it gets my vote though … I’ll need to read more entries. This one may border on too quirky. Also, one thing that in my opinion stood out as a big problem were the population numbers. Tens of thousands of blink dogs just doesn’t seem right. Someone might correct me if I’m wrong, or chide me for not suspending my disbelief, but how can that be sustained. The blink dogs will be predators, at or near the top of the foodchain, with no farming capability, I just cannot see there being enough prey to sustain those populations, unless the area of this nation is absolutely huge.
I guess my problem (weird, I know) isn't with the blink dogs. It's that blink dogs can't build a country in any way that I understand a country. If you can't put together a building, you can't have a country. It feels like a big, inhabited wilderness full of blink dogs.
I actually got about halfway through the entry before I realized that the people of this nation actually WERE blink dogs. I kept thinking--okay these guys must call themselves "blink dogs" as a tribal barbarian thing. Y'know, like the "poison vipers" or the "black bears". When it finally came out that they really are actual blink dogs I just kinda shook my head.
It's not even entirely the definition thing. When you make a "nation of blink dogs" it by necessity doesn't have the kind of color or flavor of any other kind of country, because with it's general lack of worked land of any kind it's pretty much exactly the same to adventurers as it would be if there were no nation at all. How would the PC's even know they were in a country, unless some blink dogs came along and told them.
Some cool ideas, but it just feels too much like a stretch of undeveloped open ground with some critters living on it. Maybe if they had tighter relations with some other races, and the place had a bit more blink dog color to it (or so much as a nice painted doghouse). As it is, I gotta' vote to pass on it--or I guess NOT vote.
I guess my problem (weird, I know) isn't with the blink dogs. It's that blink dogs can't build a country in any way that I understand a country. If you can't put together a building, you can't have a country. It feels like a big, inhabited wilderness full of blink dogs.
I actually got about halfway through the entry before I realized that the people of this nation actually WERE blink dogs. I kept thinking--okay these guys must call themselves "blink dogs" as a tribal barbarian thing. Y'know, like the "poison vipers" or the "black bears". When it finally came out that they really are actual blink dogs I just kinda shook my head.
It's not even entirely the definition thing. When you make a "nation of blink dogs" it by necessity doesn't have the kind of color or flavor of any other kind of country, because with it's general lack of worked land of any kind it's pretty much exactly the same to adventurers as it would be if there were no nation at all. How would the PC's even know they were in a country, unless some blink dogs came along and told them.
Some cool ideas, but it just feels too much like a stretch of undeveloped open ground with some critters living on it. Maybe if they had tighter relations with some other races, and the place had a bit more blink dog color to it (or so much as a nice painted doghouse). As it is, I gotta' vote to pass on it--or I guess NOT vote.
Cherokee Nation
Cherokee Nation
Yes, I was going to point that out too, but I do see Grimcleaver's point. Even the most nomadic of prehistoric Native Americans had a) some kind of structure they lived in, and b) tools. Blink dogs have no opposable thumbs, and therefore it would be difficult for them to craft much of anything.
Still, I do think it qualifies as a country (by my definition, at least). My definition being: a specific geographic location, people (used loosely in a fantasy setting), and system of government.
|
|
Again. Not saying it is not effective in the absolute. Saying it is more effective in other environments. As for being more useful on a the plains than in a dungeon, that's just incorrect. 800' away in one round still gives the creature an opportunity to catch you. You _could_ be hit by a bow. You could be hit by a long range spell. If you are 800' away and there is 195' of granite between you and the target, none of those things will be true.
*sigh*
Sebastian, you know more about arguing than me.I know more about dogs than you.
A predator, like a *dog* has to try 20 times to make a kill. Nature favored the prey with speed, and the preybeast with perspicacity.
Magic favored the *blink dog* with the ability to dimension door 800 feet after a swifter preybeast, land on its back, take it out, and feed.
I agree, that dimension door would be of great use in a dungeon in a combat situation.
On the plains it puts food on the table simply, quickly, leaving the blinkdogs (which btw are as smart as humans according to the Monster Manual) to sit around, developing their society.
This ability is, theoretically, what allows the blinkdogs time to develop a society. What's more useful? Depends on your definition of useful.
WRT the "blink dogs suck" statement, all I can say is not as bad as modrons.
|
|
Cherokee Nation
Yes, I was going to point that out too, but I do see Grimcleaver's point. Even the most nomadic of prehistoric Native Americans had a) some kind of structure they lived in, and b) tools. Blink dogs have no opposable thumbs, and therefore it would be difficult for them to craft much of anything.
Still, I do think it qualifies as a country (by my definition, at least). My definition being: a specific geographic location, people (used loosely in a fantasy setting), and system of government.
Dogs burrow underground and live in little caves. Depends on your definition of "structure."
|
RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
,
Star Voter Season 6, Star Voter Season 7, Star Voter Season 9
aka Dementrius
|
...
I actually got about halfway through the entry before I realized that the people of this nation actually WERE blink dogs. I kept thinking--okay these guys must call themselves "blink dogs" as a tribal barbarian thing. Y'know, like the "poison vipers" or the "black bears". When it finally came out that they really are actual blink dogs I just kinda shook my head....
Or alternatively, they could have called themselves the "Pink Hairless Monkey Tribe" and actually turned out to be Blink Dogs wearing peopleskin hats.
I'm thinking those hats that you can tie the ear flaps around your chin would be the best look. Bugger, now I've got this image of five blink dogs in varying headwear, "Village People" style, dimension dooring in to negotiate with the human settlers.
Other than the general lack of canine headwear, I thought it was a good, imaginative entry.
I applaud you for your willingness to take risks. I rewarded Hal for his risk with were-elephants, but I have to say: I can't see the adventure for my PCs here. I'm not seeing the spark I'd need for the country to be useful.
I give you plenty of props for the try, and your gutsy-ness got you into my top ten, but I'm not sure you'll make it to the top five... I've got 4 solid locks I think, but the fifth one I can't seem to make a final decision on.
- Ashavan
Whoa! Props for a really different concept. I have to think about this one, so it's going on my reread list. I'll admit, I have distinct reservations about this because adventure potential seems very limited and non-mainstream for D&D. However, it's my last entry to read, so I will give you another shake tomorrow.
I'll note though that you hit the right note of controversy to engage discussion. I think this thread is getting the most attention.
Wow. two whole pages. Maybe there's love for this one after all.
If the judges say "I dislike it", I wonder if that'll actually encourage some of the grumpy voters to actually vote for it?
I really think this will fall into a gamer niche.
Everything being said, I can see this working in a Gazeteer - it'd really stand out, and probably stick in a player's mind. The numbers are a bit off (I think 9,000 Blink Dogs in any one place is a bit extreme), but that's all good. Really, I think it's an interesting idea.
But I don't think I'll be putting a vote for it.
|
|
If the judges say "I dislike it", I wonder if that'll actually encourage some of the grumpy voters to actually vote for it?
I read a few countries, then quit reading the judges' and everybody else's comments until I wrote my own. I don't want to fall victim to groupthink when I'm deciding if I like something or not.
It's kinda a weird feeling saying I like something, then seeing a judge Simonize the same country.
RPG Superstar 2013
,
Dedicated Voter Season 6, Dedicated Voter Season 7, Dedicated Voter Season 8, Star Voter Season 9
aka Steven T. Helt
|
Reading these posts pisses me off. I wanted to be the one to argue for Blink Dog nation and lead an army of voters to send this to the next round. I'm gonna write as if i didn't finish reading the posts, cause I didn't. Couldn't wait any longer.
Blink dogs have a language. They speak blink dog. To that extent, a party of blink dogs is totally feasible. Suddenly, blink dog paladin with improved trip is very exciting.
I said out loud as soon as I read phase spider "Sure. Because displacer beasts aren't in the SRD." Fantastic substitution, and shows finesse.
Players love blink dogs in my experience. My last ampaign was 3 years long. For one of those years, my wife had a blink dog animal companion. It took her animal companion feature and two nature's companion feats. It cost her gold in terms of protection items she gave the dog, and because as it got cooler I made her pay some for it in treasure. Everyone in the party loved that dog. It was useful, it was well-roleplayed. It was one of the best NPCs I ever had. When it was kidnapped by thorciasids in the City That Waits, on condition that the party find Acererak and end it without destroying the city, some people in the party got upset with me.
People like dogs. Blink dogs are heroic,altruistic, intelligent and yet feral at the same time. It is one of the most noble races in all of DnD. They deserve their own kingdom.
Now, the question then is: was this just a great ecology article? I like it as a country because it took huevos to forego the standard races. If there are 20 human kingdoms, 10 humanoid race kingdoms, a blink dog and a beholder community, I am gonna consider the other two, because 14 standard races are going to make the cut.
This place is not useless: having a blink dog ranger as a party guide (scarf of telepathy? bard that speaks blink dog?) is not too weird for an otherwise standard party. So we have a country that someone in your party could be from. The dogs have natural and sworn enemies, so there's adventure there countering the goblin king and other dangers. There's political intrigue as self righteous human settlers or politicians corrupted by the goblin king's agents try to play up the barbaric blink dogs and their bloodthirsty defense of sacred grounds, in an attempt to get humans to wipe them out. There's phase spiders taking human children hostage and promising to return them if the humans foreswear any treaties with blink dogs and place a bounty on every blink dog head. This is a place where PCs can play, at least moreso than half the other entries I have read. It isn't so gonzo. I think new gazeteers are lacking if they don't have a few similar nations.
Imagine that your party of adventurers sailed for weeks to collect a rich bounty off of these barbaric wolf creatures. Their acts against settling humans are pure atrocities (either because of embellishment, or because the barghests are acting in the guise of blink dogs). Then you find later that you have been fighting for the wrong side. Now the Goblin King is poised to unearth an artifact that will tip the tide of good vs evil on this land forever, and the PCs are obligated to give their lives to prevent it. "Not to worry." says the blink dog alpha, "We understand you were deceived. You have a debt to pay, but we will stand with you against evil. We are prepared to forgive."
We heard over and over that in this contest you will have to swing for the fences. Now we should reward a well-written entry that has as much room for adventure and heroism as any of its peers. At least until I've finished reading the last half. : }
Reading these posts pisses me off. I wanted to be the one to argue for Blink Dog nation and lead an army of voters to send this to the next round. I'm gonna write as if i didn't finish reading the posts, cause I didn't. Couldn't wait any longer.
Blink dogs have a language. They speak blink dog. To that extent, a party of blink dogs is totally feasible. Suddenly, blink dog paladin with improved trip is very exciting.
I said out loud as soon as I read phase spider "Sure. Because displacer beasts aren't in the SRD." Fantastic substitution, and shows finesse.
Players love blink dogs in my experience. My last ampaign was 3 years long. For one of those years, my wife had a blink dog animal companion. It took her animal companion feature and two nature's companion feats. It cost her gold in terms of protection items she gave the dog, and because as it got cooler I made her pay some for it in treasure. Everyone in the party loved that dog. It was useful, it was well-roleplayed. It was one of the best NPCs I ever had. When it was kidnapped by thorciasids in the City That Waits, on condition that the party find Acererak and end it without destroying the city, some people in the party got upset with me.
People like dogs. Blink dogs are heroic,altruistic, intelligent and yet feral at the same time. It is one of the most noble races in all of DnD. They deserve their own kingdom.
Now, the question then is: was this just a great ecology article? I like it as a country because it took huevos to forego the standard races. If there are 20 human kingdoms, 10 humanoid race kingdoms, a blink dog and a beholder community, I am gonna consider the other two, because 14 standard races are going to make the cut.
This place is not useless: having a blink dog ranger as a party guide (scarf of telepathy? bard that speaks blink dog?) is not too weird for an otherwise standard party. So we have a country that someone in your party could be from. The dogs have natural and sworn enemies, so there's adventure there countering...
I'll just say that of both rounds so far, this is the only one that 100% is going into my next campaign.
Here's a huge factor: what if you play one of the dozens of offbrand D20 fantasies without elves, dwarves and whatnot--then this fits right into your Oriental or AE game.
Hmmm, I may need to take my exaltation to those gamers and get them motivated.
Cherokee Nation
Though I don't know if The Country of Cherokee works at ALL. And a country was the requirement.
At least they had teepees, not urine and rocks.
Or Australian Aborigines.
Same goes in spades here.
Cherokee NationThough I don't know if The Country of Cherokee works at ALL. And a country was the requirement.
At least they had teepees, not urine and rocks.
Country is a highly relative term. Countries don't even realistically exist in most historical periods that compare to fantasy geopolitical systems.
As a dominant collective culture centered around a particular landscape with general boundaries, this passes easily.
And blinkdogs could build adobes or dugouts, if so motivated. Heck, they teleport, they could chew and stack stone pyramids if they felt so inclined. Intelligence is more important than opposable thumbs to a dedicated civilization.
I voted for it simply because I want to see what someone who comes up with a blink dog nation will do next.
El Skootro
Depends on your definition of "structure."
Structure: Something I step into and say "Wow...what an interesting culture, I sure can tell a lot about them from this interesting structure."
NOT
Something I step into and say "Ow! Freakin' crap I twisted my freakin' ankle! Dumb dog digging his freakin' hole out here in the middle of nowhere!"
I read this entry twice because I did not believe what I read.
I respect your yearning for uniqueness, but I must say I respect the opportunity the judges presented you much, much, more. I am disappointed.
A pseudo-gnoll/blink dog humanoid nation might make the entire entry much more palatable for my taste. I look through each one of these entries in two ways:
Is there something I can take away from this entry (since I imagine most creative GMs rarely use a product in its entirety, but scavenge bits to marry their own innovations)?
Secondly, though a bit egotistical, would those sitting in the "Loser's Lounge" have a better entry?
While I did get something out of this entry (it made me think about pseudo-gnoll/blink dog creatures), is it something I necessarily need (I think D&D has too many humanoid creatures running about - as a commoner, I would never leave my house to farm the fields)? It almost feels you opened the MM to a random page to pick the main inhabitants of your nation entry.
There is a reason (and I might be wrong, for there are a lot of craziness in D&D history; I am a diehard Dark Sun fan - I am looking at you Squark) why a nation of blink dogs did not exist, before now.
So, if this entry does get through, blink dogs everywhere will bark resounding rejoice for RPG Superstar.
Personally, I think your uniqueness wasted a unique opportunity.
Thank crap someone had the cahones to step away from a humanoid nation. I like it. Lots. You had me at the nickname.
Not only that, but this entry has the “feel” of a country much more than a few of the other entries that say country, but then describe a single area (city disguised as country due to population) within the "country."
Man, I wrote more words on this than on any other entry I've read thus far, and some kind of backtracking error ate it. I'll be back to attempt to retrieve it tomorrow since my tired brain cries for sleep (it's 1:30 a.m. here).
Short version:
This entry will have to be bumped out of my top 5. It's the first to earn a dedicated spot there. I see logical reasons behind the simple prose and bland naming conventions that not only keep with the theme presented, but reinforce it. Kudos.
|
Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4, Legendary Games
|
Blink dogs?
First reaction, like everyone else: WTF?
On reading it, though, it was pretty interesting. I have issues with it, like egad the populations seem big, and could we have some more crunchiness to it, and why oh why is there so much space on creation/origin story.
But in the end, I dug it.
Blink dogs are smart enough to get organized, are lawful, can talk, WHY NOT? Good and varied adversaries, though more on their relationship with humans would have been good. So what if PCs aren't playing blink dogs and aren't from here; it is a hundred times more interesting than "The Rolling Plains, where the nomadic [insert random horse-riding humans] dwell."
With only 5 votes I dunno if I'll vote for it, but thumbs up dude. And buy a reinforced jock strap to carry the cojones to try this.
I agree re: the population numbers, they do seem high for a purely carnivorous race. But then, i don't really know.
But that's my only complaint about this one. I like the rest of it.
Here's my perspective on this one- this isn't the main nation of a world, but it sure as heck is a great rounding out of a world. If I were to buy a book by this guy of a whole fantasy world setting, I'd have every reason to believe it was a fully fleshed-out world. That's the message I'm getting here, and why, in a back-door sort of way, I'd put it up with current product I buy off this site.
My second surefire lock vote.
Clark Peterson wrote:
Plus, gamers are contrarians. If I give it an F someone has to give it an A to be smarter than me. :) You see it all the time with gamers. You are definately gaining from teh "controversial" buzz.I've never met a contrarian gamer. Where do you come up with this stuff?
I’ve read 21 threads in a row and I’m getting a little punchy. It’s getting late and I’ve also had a couple of rye and Cokes. But I laughed at this exchange for ten minutes….
I'm just not into it. Here's the deal, if you want to write for Paizo, you've got to live up to Paizo's standards. And they've set a very high bar with what they've done to generic monsters like goblins and an even higher bar for suck monsters like fairies.
Blink dogs suck.
I understand why you're not into it. I was mixed in my first reaction. But your post helped clarify why I liked this country. Because any sucky monster can be made interesting, and even cool, by an inspired writer. And I think the author of this entry could make blink dogs cool...maybe.
Still, what a brazen bastard you are to write a nation of blink dogs.
This entry is in my Top 5. After reading 21 entries and threads in a row, I remember this one. Many others I do not.
I agree re: the population numbers, they do seem high for a purely carnivorous race. But then, i don't really know.But that's my only complaint about this one. I like the rest of it.
Here's my perspective on this one- this isn't the main nation of a world, but it sure as heck is a great rounding out of a world. If I were to buy a book by this guy of a whole fantasy world setting, I'd have every reason to believe it was a fully fleshed-out world. That's the message I'm getting here, and why, in a back-door sort of way, I'd put it up with current product I buy off this site.
My second surefire lock vote.
I think this is a big chunk of why I like it. Great fantasy worlds derive from simple, functional exceptionality. Too many other entries try to make the mundane exceptional.
That's more the job of mystery and romance writers.
I have one issue. What do blink dogs contribute economically to the surrounding nations? This is by no means a challenge to my vote, but it's a roadblock in my mind to fully realizing this country in my mind.
No!
I am not voting for this, not even evaluating it.
What do blink dogs contribute economically to the surrounding nations?
Fertilizer?
|
Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4
|
I'm curious in that the few entries I've read thus far, Eric seems to be focusing very highly on the countries interest/feasability as a point of origin for a PC. Unless I missed it, that wasn't mentioned as a specific parameter for this stage? If I had of somehow made it to this stage a few of the ideas I had would have run afoul of that focus.
That's a very interesting question - as a designer, that thought, the "could this be a place that I would want to be from?" test, certainly crossed MY mind, but it was never part of the RULES, after all.
I probably wouldn't use this in any of my games, but that's not to say that I might not vote for it.
|
|
No!
I am not voting for this, not even evaluating it.
Thanks for your valuable contribution to the discussion.
I just keep coming back to this one. I'm still having trouble with the population numbers, but it's one of the entries that's made the biggest impact on me so far - I think that is Superstar material.
|
Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4
|
Thanks for your valuable contribution to the discussion.No!
I am not voting for this, not even evaluating it.
Not all contributions are created equal, I suppose.
I just keep coming back to this one. I'm still having trouble with the population numbers, but it's one of the entries that's made the biggest impact on me so far - I think that is Superstar material.
That makes two of us. I, funny enough, actually hate Blink Dogs - but the sheer balls of this raw IDEA makes me go all tingly . . . and thankful that I have more than one vote
|
|
That makes two of us. I, funny enough, actually hate Blink Dogs - but the sheer balls of this raw IDEA makes me go all tingly . . . and thankful that I have more than one vote
Indeed - although I don't hate blink dogs.
Actually I just read your entry again too Boomer ... it could be growing on me...
|
Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4
|
Indeed - although I don't hate blink dogs.Actually I just read your entry again too Boomer ... it could be growing on me...
Hating blink dogs is just my little insanity - I wouldn't recommend it to anyone else. And this country makes me hate them a damn sight LESS.
Anyway: let these countries grow on you. There is no reward for making snap judgements or voting "first" - each one is a little painted egg-shell world, with all sorts of cool stuff tucked away where you hadn't looked before.
RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32
,
Star Voter Season 6
aka TerraNova
|
Well written? Yes
Creative? Absolutely
In-Theme for Fantasy Nations: Far shot, but yes
Still not something i will vote for, and not something i hope will advance. Sorry, but this is so specific that i can see a loving little spot for this "country" in a dozen home campaigns, but not in a general, shared world.
But it took a lot of guts to pull this off (and risk the "Joke" rule). Good job on that part, at least.