Why so many Augury items? Let's discuss


RPG Superstar™ 2008 General Discussion

Contributor, RPG Superstar 2010 Top 4

Clark Peterson wrote:
I'm still not sure why we got so many sleep and augury and dream related items.

I stole this quote from another thread. :) It makes a good opening line.

I can't respond necessarily to the sleep/dream items, but I had a thought about the augury items.

Has anybody considered that this might be a symptom of Adventure Design in general?

(Not Pathfinder, which is brand new and filled with awesomeness. I recommend it.)

In adventures, are equipment with misc. applications really demanded and/or required? You have your weapons, armor, and devices like rings and rod, staves, and wands to give you some fire power.

Aren't Wondrous Items really just luxuries or convenience items because adventures don't always mandate anything besides a means to deliver damage and receive damage?

So what would be the next big commodity..? Maybe it's information.

I don't have the answers, and I certainly (out of everyone on this board) am not qualified to speak to all adventures that are available commercially, let alone homebrew campaigns.

I'm just tossing the subject out for consideration and discussion.


I think I'm following your line of thought, but arriving at a totally different conclusion.

Why are there so many information-gathering items? Because it's something players find irritating. They don't want to spend hours interrogating every beggar in town, or fiddling with some puzzle key.

They want to press a button on an item, solve the mystery, and get back to drop-kicking bad guys in the face.

Or, you know, maybe not.

Cheers,
Roger

The Exchange

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Watcher! wrote:
So what would be the next big commodity..? Maybe it's information.

to quote myself:

Wormys_Queue wrote:

I think, that was for the same reason you got my item ("Desna's Dice"). You cannot read through Sean K. Reynold' s article in Pathfinder #2 without getting inspired. And Desna is all about sleep and dream, augury (and travel).

I wasn't even conscious about where my inspiration came from until I reread said article. After I felt like an idiot.

Maybe it isn't so much about Desna but about the world of Golarion itself. Golarion used to be a place where prophecy played a big role...

"until a god died a century ago. No one saw that coming, and now, the old prophecies are failing. Oracles go mad and seers desperately try to account for the loss of future."

So said James Jacobs in the editorial of "Burnt Offerings."

So augury items seem to be of much more importance to the people of Golarion than it is the case in other worlds. And given how much the Pathfinder setting has sparked my imagination so far, I don't think it impossible that quite some of the participants may have been (probably unconsciously) influenced to do something on these lines.

Just a theory though and maybe it's just me. But although information is crucial for any adventuring party I don't think that it was the main reason for this accumulation of augury items.


RogerC wrote:
Why are there so many information-gathering items? Because it's something players find irritating. They don't want to spend hours interrogating every beggar in town, or fiddling with some puzzle key.

For me, it's because I don't see people casting Augury or Divination much. Having an item that does it for you gives the GM a useful way to prod the players along when they're stuck, without the gaming session degenerating into a you-stupid-idiots-this-is-the-plot-hook gripefest. And since the GM controls the amount of information you get, it doesn't actually remove any power from them, either.


I think how and why you gather information is highly textual to your game and style. We have hard rules for combat and overcoming obstacles, but obtaining answers (beyond Gather Information) is not all that rule intensive. I think this promotes a variety of solutions, but also might limit the appeal of items intended to address the issue.

My item was a divination item that I felt addressed a real need, the ability to record a scry attempt whiel also being able to conditionally scry on a location rather than being forced to scry a person and hope for the best. But this might well be an issue as to how we gather and use info in my games.

(that it was a bit complicated and alcking flavor)

Contributor, RPG Superstar 2010 Top 4

Roger and CNB, those are both good points.

Wormy, that wasn't something I picked up on, nice insight!

RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32 , Star Voter Season 7

Personally, I blame the lack of diversity in divination magic. Anyone who wanted to make a fortune-telling item that isn't obscenely expensive only has Augury to work with.


My own thought regarding the numerous same theme category submissions for the Augury Items, Magic boots, Magic Lanterns and Travel Gear is there is a common perceived need among the gaming community for those items in game that is not being adequately addressed as many games prefer to limit magic item usage to standard existing designed items to limit potential unbalance into a campaign.

I really liked the Magic Item Compendium because it addresses some of those needs by providing the PCs with some useful utility magic with a good cost mechanic particularly with the craft wondrous item feat taken by one of the party spellcasters which I prefer to the magic store campaigns.

IMO Boots of Teleporatation are a classic example of an overpriced magic item to utility. It is a very nice wondrous item but rarely do most parties ever need to teleport anywhere more than 1/Day and most could get by with 1/Week or even 1/Ride (10 Days) or even less often so that 3/Day mechanic just assigns a huge utility cost to the player using suggested wealth guidelines at 40K+ unless the item is prorated down by some factor when it becomes much more useful and desirable to a PC.

For parties without a cleric or other divine caster with a limited known spell list like a Favored Soul. The players want some basic divination items besides divine srolls and Augury items would have nice utility for the price and while not infallible can give the player's an edge in a combat.

For parties that don't have darkvision for everyone many carry lanterns instead of torches so having a magical one that does a litle something for the party like provide a Protection from Evil benefit or a Bless Effect or Aid effect a few times a day is a nice buff augmenting something the party rountinely uses.

Traveling it just gets old constantly having weeks or months of random monster attacks travelling from point A to B through the wilderness the only worse is being attack at night while you character is sleeping. Level 9 with a party with a wizard PC is such a nice capstone. Bartering, Crafting or Purchasing those kinds of items is kind of like a contract between the Players and DM for a downtime, timeout and reload in game.

Legendary Games, Necromancer Games

RogerC wrote:

I think I'm following your line of thought, but arriving at a totally different conclusion.

Why are there so many information-gathering items? Because it's something players find irritating. They don't want to spend hours interrogating every beggar in town, or fiddling with some puzzle key.

They want to press a button on an item, solve the mystery, and get back to drop-kicking bad guys in the face.

Or, you know, maybe not.

I agree with this. It is also why so many of the augury items we got were not good--they could have been called "No, Mr. DM, your mystery adventure/puzzle/obstacle you designed wont work any more now that I have X!"

Many of them were shortcuts around what is one of the main points of the game--overcoming obstacles. I appreciate why players want these of course :)

Scarab Sages RPG Superstar 2013 , Dedicated Voter Season 6, Dedicated Voter Season 7, Dedicated Voter Season 8, Star Voter Season 9 aka Steven T. Helt

Watcher! wrote:
Clark Peterson wrote:
I'm still not sure why we got so many sleep and augury and dream related items.

I stole this quote from another thread. :) It makes a good opening line.

Has anybody considered that this might be a symptom of Adventure Design in general?

Aren't Wondrous Items really just luxuries or convenience items because adventures don't always mandate anything besides a means to deliver damage and receive damage?

So what would be the next big commodity..? Maybe it's information.

I'm just tossing the subject out for consideration and discussion.

This I think is the beginning of a fantastic discussion. I have an opinion, but I'm at work, so I'll come back in a couple of hours and tell you what I think.

I am sure you'll all be breathless with anticipation, meaning I hope some of you check in this week and keep the conversation going. : }


It could be information, but that demands on the players interests and style. I think most games favor either combat or plot. Now, mind you, that plot does not mean a straight narrative. The best gaming plots tend to be collaborative fictions between players and DM. However, that's extremely hard to account for in yur standard packaged fare.

Combat, treasure, and so forth can be put into a module or scenario with ease. You do that with plot and you risk the horror of the railroading style of late 1st ed--check out the old Dragonlance modules.

I think we may have the opportunity to offer plot driven collaborative games, however. I would see that bets realized by a community wiki where you could pick and choose the best bits of information to develop amongst your selves and your players (or DMs). Each group might occupy its own wing of the wiki with more generic topics poured into the centralized core.

Personally, I'd love to see this furher explored to give a bit of balance to swing back to hack and slash of 1st ed (sorry Clark). I love 1st Ed, but I need to feel like the group is telling a worth while narrative to stay interested in a game these days.

Grand Lodge Star Voter Season 8

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

I think it's interesting that many folks submited divination items. It's a part of the game that is often either A) handled so poorly or B) never used at all. Thus, more development from designers should be a good thing.

Divination is just like the Gather Info skill! You never hear folks complaining that the PCs can break the game by gaining too much info from the bartender! But sometimes Gather Info just isn't a good idea. Maybe the PCs have to keep a low profile or maybe the town bartenders or whatever just don't have insight into what the PCs need.

Divination magic is the answer. And it gives the DM the perfect opportunity to divulge some adventure background that is usually never revealed. And, unlike in typical fashion, this method of giving PCs info is PLAYER driven, that is, it's something the PCs add to the game, not stuff unasked for from the DM.

Now, I feel my item was solid -- certainly not the flashiest, but also certainly well written:

Spoiler:
[b]Loremaster's Bell]/b]
Arriving late, the party's rogue had only learned a name -- but it was enough. Subtly, the loremaster whispered the name and pealed her small copper bell with its ivory clapper -- and divined some real intelligence for the adventureres.

Once per month the user can toll a silent, divining knell to collect specific knowledge about a named, intelligent creature, gleaned from any person/s in a 13-mile radius speaking or thinking about the individual. The user makes a caster level check (1d20+13) against any nondetection (or similar) effects the DM may have established. Persons divined upon do not know they are being so. After ten minutes the bell acts as an ear-horn, the ivory "tongue" imparting information about the named creature -- but never any information about the person/s divined upon. Outsiders, epic-level characters and public figures that are named often yield rumors as much as facts. The DM decides the type and amount of information divined. For example, the user may receive insight into the individual's operations or intrigues, the names/races of three collaborators, or background of his obsession with necromantic ooze research.

Moderate divination; CL 13th; Craft Wondrous Item, detect thoughts, clairaudience/clairvoyance; Price 34,000 gp; Weight 1 lb.

-W. E. Ray


As a DM I tend to dislike many of the information gathering abilities. I'll concede that within reason they can add something to the game but often it does just feels like a cheap short cut.

Essentially any well adventure that involves mystery and intrigue should provide players with lots of clues and other pieces of information for them to chew on.

The problem with divination magic is that it tends to just as a short cut through all of this. Not certain what the best option is? Ask a God!

Essentially this amounts to the players basically saying 'well the DM knows what the best option is - lets use a game mechanic and make him tell us'.

A particularly annoying spell in this circumstance is discern location which is damn close to unbeatable.

RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32 , Star Voter Season 7

Jeremy Mac Donald wrote:


Essentially this amounts to the players basically say 'well the DM knows what the best option is - lets use a game mechanic and make him tell us what the answer is'.

A particularly annoying spell in this circumstance is discern location which is damn close to unbeatable.

I dislike the higher level divinations like Commune because they can skip too much plot, and I'm lucky my players never caught onto Discern Location. (When I'm DMing, not in an absolute sense.) That's why my item plays with Augury and Divination: One is just thumbs-up thumbs-down, and the other fetches a cryptic riddle, sot he DM can hold back information all he wants.


The problem with cryptic riddles is that they are not necessarily easy to make up on the spot. Any mechanic that asks the DM to become an elaborate and clever word smith with no warning is generally one that I don't like.

Grand Lodge Star Voter Season 8

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Jeremy Mac Donald wrote:

(They) just feel like a cheap short cut.

The problem with divination magic is that it tends to just (be) a short cut... Not certain what the best option is? Ask a God!

OMG, I strongly disagree -- which is a first; I only remember agreeing with other posts of yours.

The only way divination magic is a short cut is if the DM tells everything. Like if the DM has the Bartender at the inn give the party rogue all the answers to the fricken universe because the Player rolled a high Gather Info. That's just stupidly bad DMing.

You hit the nail on the head for using it correctly, though -- there're lots of clues and such in a high intrigue/plot campaign. A couple the PCs get from Gather info. Then they have to choose precisely what and how to ask with their divination spell which gives them 1 or 2 more clues -- not the whole campaign!

Then the PCs have to start putting together the clues they have so far and come up with a course of action -- where to go next, whom to ask (or kill). Once there the PCs find another clue or two and have to do more Gather Info with newly made contacts (with their own agendas!) and if they've the option, another divination spell -- all this leads to a couple more clues until through lots of roleplaying the PCs have all the info they need to stop the BBEG before he becomes elected US president for a third term after he's confused the mass idiots who actually watch Fox News that it's okay and usurp presidency from a rightfully elected candidate for the third time -- irrevocably sending the world to it doom once and for all.

Wait, what were we talking about?

-W. E. Ray

Scarab Sages RPG Superstar 2013 , Dedicated Voter Season 6, Dedicated Voter Season 7, Dedicated Voter Season 8, Star Voter Season 9 aka Steven T. Helt

I just typed a long response with my opinion about augury items, and then a story about why I really submitted mine. And it vanished.

Now I am very sad. I will take my laptop to bed and work on my next 'get-my-ass-published' project until I fall asleep, drool on the laptop, and start a fire.

Scarab Sages RPG Superstar 2013 , Dedicated Voter Season 6, Dedicated Voter Season 7, Dedicated Voter Season 8, Star Voter Season 9 aka Steven T. Helt

Before I go to bed, I'll try to repeat that disappearing post. Maybe it was too long the first time.

My submitted item had nothing (consciously) to do with my perceived need for an augury item that excites players but still let's the DM hold something back.

I'll succinctly throw in the opinion here: I think augury items are either ripe for mediocre role play sessions (I don't have the creepy process of today's divination outlined, so I'll just throw it out as I make it up. Boring.), or they are not useful to party members (uh....the spell tells you weal AND woe. Doesn't it always?). DMs want the party to sing for their supper, players want something written in stone they can't get wrong.

At lower levels, players get jacked. At higher levels, the campaign can get hijacked. Don't ever cast Find the Path at my table. Last time that happened, I had a week to prepare and I wrote a response: literally everything the party would need to know about the Tomb of Horrors, the City That Waits, and the Fortress of Conclusion. I read it as fast as I could, slowing down around phrases that I thought made good imagery and would remember to make a place they hadn't visited seem familiar when they got there. They got a few useful clues. But I'm not letting a 6th level spell advise them to stay away from the green goblin face or any other hazard. When they asked me to repeat the stuff they hadn't caught, I asked them if they had memorized the spell again. They got the point and it made their encounters seem prophetic, without torching one of the greatest adventures ever written.

We love the idea of prophecy, divination, soothsaying, but our imaginations have high standards for these things, and the typical dnd experience doesn't meet that, I think. So a lot of poeple think "My party would love something more useful, but not so powerful that Dms will hate it."

My two cents there.

But that's not why I submitted my item. I wanted to have a little more fun with my entries, so I decided to add the cumulative adventure elements of Logue's Iron DM tournaments and make sure they were referenced by the time I was deep into the contest. I didn't assume a level of success, and I wasn't gonna tell anyone until someone else mentioned it. But I thought it would be challenging, maybe please potential voters, and pimp my favorite convention event.

Time travel was the hardest thing to add subtly, so I scrapped my plans for the Resonance Stone and decided to submit an item that gave characters a glimpse of the future. I thought, 'no one uses magic coins!' and so I went with Prescience Pillow. And lost.

But that's okay, I really was going for the end zone with the extra elements (CLARK: can't use a baseball phrase, sorry), and I am happy with the product I submitted. Next time maybe I won't be so ambitious, but I have other opportunities to submit for approval, so fun and competing are just as important as winning in this case. Well, almost as important. : }

Good luck to all. My vote is hard to earn, but if you can, I'll plead your case across the boards!


Molech wrote:
Jeremy Mac Donald wrote:

(They) just feel like a cheap short cut.

The problem with divination magic is that it tends to just (be) a short cut... Not certain what the best option is? Ask a God!

OMG, I strongly disagree -- which is a first; I only remember agreeing with other posts of yours.

The only way divination magic is a short cut is if the DM tells everything. Like if the DM has the Bartender at the inn give the party rogue all the answers to the fricken universe because the Player rolled a high Gather Info. That's just stupidly bad DMing.

You hit the nail on the head for using it correctly, though -- there're lots of clues and such in a high intrigue/plot campaign. A couple the PCs get from Gather info. Then they have to choose precisely what and how to ask with their divination spell which gives them 1 or 2 more clues -- not the whole campaign!

Then the PCs have to start putting together the clues they have so far and come up with a course of action -- where to go next, whom to ask (or kill). Once there the PCs find another clue or two and have to do more Gather Info with newly made contacts (with their own agendas!) and if they've the option, another divination spell -- all this leads to a couple more clues until through lots of roleplaying the PCs have all the info they need to stop the BBEG before he becomes elected US president for a third term after he's confused the mass idiots who actually watch Fox News that it's okay and usurp presidency from a rightfully elected candidate for the third time -- irrevocably sending the world to it doom once and for all.

Wait, what were we talking about?

-W. E. Ray

Sure, to an extent, with the low level stuff but the mid and higher level stuff gets brutal.

Keep in mind that the PCs don't need to be able to know a spell to cast it - they can pay a mage to do so if your following standard rules. When we get to the point where they can bust the adventure if everyone chips in 750 gp to pay for the casting of a higher level spell I get unhappy.

Generally clues from spells often feel either nearly required to solve the mission (The DM went through all the spells in the divination school while prepping the adventure) or game breaking (The DM screwed up and forgot to review all the spells in the divination school before writing the adventure).

Dark Archive Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4

CastleMike wrote:


For parties that don't have darkvision for everyone many carry lanterns instead of torches so having a magical one that does a litle something for the party like provide a Protection from Evil benefit or a Bless Effect or Aid effect a few times a day is a nice buff augmenting something the party rountinely uses.

CastleMike, you cut the Gordian Knot for me on this one.

Oddly, one of the other items that I was going to submit (and am QUITE glad that I didn't, mostly because it falls into a number of steroetypes and wouldn't have won) was a lantern that contained a self-ressurecting little Half-Celestial Fire Elemental, Small.

The little Phoenix-Soul, with her 2 big hit-dice, could use bless once a day or throw out three protection from evil effects - plus, she could use cast daylight at will and fly around setting things on fire and smiting evil and stuff.

As a player, I would LOVE, LOVE, LOVE to have that item. Is it super-star quality? I have no f+#%ing idea. But it would be double kick-ass to own, for any character, ever.


Molech wrote:

Now, I feel my item was solid -- certainly not the flashiest, but also certainly well written:

Loremaster's Bell

I like it. Well written, hard to exploit. Can I use it?

Contributor, RPG Superstar 2010 Top 4

I am with Molech on this.

Not going to beat it into the ground however.

The "nature of your players" plays a role in the equation I think.

Some groups use auguries as a means to get to the next clue (not solve the whole campaign), some would be inclined to use it as a vehicle to by-pass character interaction on the way to the next fight (with it's inevitable loot).

Unfortunately for me, winning items needed to account for the best players and the worst. I don't refute that, but I only saw it in hindsight.


"Clues" are a mixed bag.

While revealing everything at once takes all the fun out of a game... Relying on clues can kill a game, without leaving time to play a board/card game afterwards.

As a DM, you can give all the right clues and not have your players make the logical connections. As a player, your DM might not give you all the clues (maybe your group missed a few, maybe the DM forgot/misread, etc.)

Sometimes, as a player, I just need a little "alone time" with the DM to make sure I am picking up what s/he is putting down. Augury and Divination are great spells for this, but rarely worth taking a slot with.

Therefor, putting the ability into an item a likely choice. And, I suspect, a percieved need in the game.


Disenchanter wrote:

Augury and Divination are great spells for this, but rarely worth taking a slot with.

Therefor, putting the ability into an item a likely choice. And, I suspect, a percieved need in the game.

I don't really follow this. Spell slots might not normally be used but they are free if you do perceive the need for a divination type spell. A magic item utilizes a chunk of the PCs resources on a permanent basis. Thus one should either expect to use a magic item a lot, keep it around for emergencies or have a limit charges on something useful.

Thus in the situation your describing I would tend to either just take the spell and use up a slot if I anticipated needing it in the adventure. If I'm not rushed I can always wait until tomorrow to get the spell. If I keep finding that I need this dang spell and I don't have it I buy either a couple of scrolls - or if I find myself using it moderately often I buy the wand.

I almost certainly don't buy a permanent magic item for this. It probably won't save my life in an emergency and its not something I'm using everyday.


It's interesting to see so many people that don't want divination because it gives too much away. While I can understand the frustration as a DM, it only a tool that players can choose to use. It's kinda like using a hand whisk vs a hand mixer. They can both get the job done and some people like the feel you get from a hand whisk and the sense of complishment and other just feel that mixing by hand takes too long and want an electric mixer. Ones not really better than the other (unless my analogy sucks ;) ). It's just styles of play. Sure as a DM you might feel that the players are short chnaging themselves using divination, let them know afterwards so they might think twice about using divination the next time. If it's not fun for the players to spend hours trying to figure out the plot info then why should they do it? If you as a DM want them to do it because you feel it's needed and the players don't then you have two different playing styles. Everyone has different reasons for playing the game.

As far as the game overall lacking good divination, I think it's too spread out with too big a jumps in the info you can get. It would be nice to have more spells to have a more gradual change between say like Augury and Commune.


I don't see divination spells as campaign breaking or destroying particularly if the players are paying for it with one shot or limited usage items and the spell limitations are observed.

Mostly because players don't know the right questions to answer although occassionally they score a bullseye just don't let the players play 20 questions, the game is D&D.

Whenever answering a divination question in game IMO DMs should take an actual minute or so to consider the implications of the question before responding, and I suggest doing a little acting hamming it up occassionally say something like good question or an"accidental slip" you would have to ask that wouldn't you?

IMO Divination is mostly a DM tool for guiding the players to help them overcome the adventure challenge and emphasizing an aspect that the DM is aware of believes would be in their benefit to know. Generally more expensive than hiring a NPC guide.

There is no reason BBEGs can't have some basic anti divination magics in effect or have a strong hold in an unusual locale that interferes or negates divination spells particularly if the players are trying to break the adventure with divinations. Obscure Object is a level 1 Bard spell. Non Detection is pretty good as a level 3 spell.

Augury at Cl 3 as an item 73% chance of getting a meaningful reply with one of 4 results for a action up to a half an hour into the future: Good, Bad, Mixed or Nothing the spell clearly states the DM can answer straight forward questions. Seriously if this spell can break a game it isn't the fault of the spell.

Player should we enter the dungeon? I favor the Mixed response for gaining some treasure but probably getting injured in the process and Nothing for a mostly empty dungeon where the players wouldn't encounter anything in the first half hour. If the players dont't take any injuries and inquire about it latter three is usally a fashionably dressed player just mention a favorite item of his was ruined when it was stained with blood or was torn, usually worth a chuckle.

Outside a room that makes the players uncomfortable or uneasy perhaps because they are injured and basically depleted of resources with a normally appropiate CR encounter really being a threat (Bad).

Divination takes 10 minutes and can be answered with a short sentence at the beginning of the adventure Beware the dark mage or the Necromancer brings death. How does that solve the adventure in any game? You can have a half dozen or more dark mages or necromancers in your campaign. Throw them off base have one or two dark mages located nearby for a side trek adventure (Good antisocial one the community credits with a bad reputation and a polite evil one with a good reputation) their starting location and the BBEG at another locale a day or a few days away. It's the DMs world so change it up.

If the second question is where is the dark mage? Name the campaign world. If the players always ask what city remember most world's don't have cities and the dark mage wasn't in residence when the divination occurred. Personally don't favor scry, teleport, die tactics myself and BBEGs should anti divination magics in effect in those types of campaigns.

IMO it only directs the players and if the BBEG is protected from divination magic doubtful most of his underlings are so go with the top underling affecting the players: The cunning rogue plots against you or if the henchman has a nickname like "The Dagger" say something like "Beware the dagger aimed at your throats" or "The Dagger has been cast". Now if the players want to play day after day 20 questions over a long period of time about the time they hit #9 say something like "Evil has triumphed again, now lets order some pizza or watch a movie thought it was a pretty cool adventure myself".

Commune generally takes a level 9 cleric normally costs 100 experience points and is limited to 1 question a round. According to DMG demographics 90% of the poplulation live in Thorps, Hamlets and Villages none of which normally generate a single cleric over level 5 who cannot cast commune. According to demographics you might find a single level 9 cleric in 1 out of 6 large towns, doesn't mean he is helpful to riff raff adventurers, he is a busy important man, the DM decides what Power he is a cleric of which moderates his interactions with the players. Maybe he charges the adventures with unusal tasks for performing the spell.

Monitor those commune rounds closely prompt the players by asking "Next question?" except in tightly knit games you will get several questions which you can respond to as you like in whatever order you like, ignoring all or anwering each (I prefer responding to all in whatever order the diety or his agent prefers because the responses are usually simple Yes, No or Unknown because if the players start discusing the questions the spell ends), treating all the questions as single question will usually let you answer it as a single question No or Unknown.

Commune is interesting since the diety can also deliver a short sentence a nice option is to give the players a choice of asking questions or accepting the advice of the power in a short sentence.


Jeremy Mac Donald wrote:
Disenchanter wrote:

Augury and Divination are great spells for this, but rarely worth taking a slot with.

Therefor, putting the ability into an item a likely choice. And, I suspect, a perceived need in the game.

I don't really follow this.

That is most likely because some of the important bits never made it to my fingers to type them out.

Any spontaneous casting class would be hard pressed to use a Known Spell slot on Augury or Divination, and a preparing class wouldn't likely have them prepared - unless they are Diviners or have one of the Divination type domains.

I am not saying a Wondrous Item is the way to go. But it was the only avenue available for this contest. And like I said, I think there might be the perception that information gathering magic items are in demand.


My augury item wasn't about the knowledge but about flavour. I did realize my players never memorize augury in favour of more umph spells. I wanted to imagine my players taking a moment and rattling the runic carved bones and then 'reading' how they lay.

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