I'd love to hear from the grumps about which items they think are so sucky.
Just as you don't want us to hear your nasty comments, I'm sure most of us feel the same way for you.
If anything, the situation is worse, since I doubt I'll ever be evaluating a game module proposal from you. The reverse is also improbable, but definitely more likely.
I'm just a little frustrated seeing how all these mechanically terrible items got through on sheer gonzo weirdness. I mean, I realize my item isn't anywhere near as good as some of the top tier contenders, but my goodness... some of the stuff I'm considering to be the back of the pack, I can't imagine HOW they got into the top 32.
Mechanically terrible? Which ones? I'd love your thoughts. There are a few that had a few issues, but I would hope we didnt let in any that are terrible.
We didnt reward gonzo wierdness. I dont think any of them are gonzo wierdness. Believe me, we saw some that were gonzo wierdness and rejected them--arquebus of pillows comes to mind.
But we definately wanted to see creativity. I mean, this was RPG Superstar.
I'd love to hear from the grumps about which items they think are so sucky.Just as you don't want us to hear your nasty comments, I'm sure most of us feel the same way for you.
If anything, the situation is worse, since I doubt I'll ever be evaluating a game module proposal from you. The reverse is also improbable, but definitely more likely.
That's fair :)
I appreciate your position.
Erik, I see their point... :)
Listen, there is definately a subjective element to the winning items.
And we dont claim to be perfect. Far from it. We did our best and I think, from the items submitted, we were pretty uniform in thinking we found the best ones.
But the beauty of it is, you guys get the final word.
RPG Superstar 2013 Top 32
aka Fatespinner
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I knew I was going to lose when I wrote my submission. I went into the contest with the mindset of "I'm going to kick myself if I don't at least enter something, so here goes..."
My item was called "The Boots of the Nimble Guardian." It was basically a set of boots that gave +10 movement speed and bestowed the Mobility feat on the wearer. No fluff, basic crunch, simple function. It was something I came up with awhile ago to help clerics and paladins get around the battlefield to help their fallen allies. Takes some of the "sting" out of 20 ft. movement for heavy armor. ;)
I just wanted to say I sent in SOMETHING, even if I knew I didn't have any awesome plans to wow the judges with.
I'll cut the suspense. Some of the comments on losing entries were brutal, and you don't want to read them.
Some, on the other hand, were really long threads (up to 14 or so posts in some cases) arguing arcane elements of rules balance or what have you. I suspect these comments would be very helpful, but no one is going to go through the 830+ losing entries to sort the helpful comments from the unhelpful ones.
The judges have been discussing putting together some sort of essay about our methodology with some anecdotes about what worked and what didn't, common themes, etc. That's probably the closest we'll get to revealing the commentary on items that didn't make the cut.
I would gladly go through all the posts to EDIT the comments for those of us that did not make the cut. Though myslef, I think a bit of brutal reality would be nice. Then I would know what was wrong with my Amulet.
Kobold Press
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I'm just disappointed that I won't be able to use my country of The Share with its main city of Halflington in the next round.
If you find a clear case of plagiarism in the top 32, please do let us know. The reason we have some alternates is in case someone is disqualified.
We read a lot, but the judges can't know everything. Just sayin.
We didnt reward gonzo weirdness.Migrus Locker.
I love it, but c'mon. You didn't reward gonzo weirdness?
I suspect gonzo weirdness is closer to my Kylix. I didn't mean it to be, but it came out that way. I'll post it when I get home tonight. :-)
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It was always going to be highly subjective. 855 entries being quickly reviewed. Intial reactions mattered heavily to get noticed, and gut cool factor is subjective.
But that's life as a writer. You keep getting thrown into the slush pile till you find an editor who likes you. That's also why knowing people in the business is so important.
Totally spot on.
It was always going to be highly subjective. There's no reason to be upset: this is how things work with creative designs. There's always next time, and not just in contests. :)
Well...I lost.
I am dissappointed, but I also clearly see why. I must try harder the next time.
Congrats to those who won!! Those are truly some great items!
Chief Creative Officer, Publisher
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But I was suprised how many were... eh... mundane. Just not terribly creative at all. Malleus Maleficarum and Seer's Tea spring to mind, among others. I mean no offence to Mr. MacLeod and Mr. Byers--those are certainly USEFUL items--but how much creativity does it take to stat up something from the real world?
Well, I think I can field this one. It wasn't so much that someone decided to do the Malleus Maleficarum (check out my first post to that thread--I actually held the "historic" element of the item _against_ the submission), but the way he did it. For example, I think most of us were impressed that you can whack your enemies with it like a weapon, and I honestly appreciated the fact that it worked against spellcasters of all alignments, as it was a good model for the way witchhunters often had/have a broad definition of evil.
The Seer's Tea was an interesting way to pull off something we saw more than 30 times in the contest--an augury item. It was one of the best of those, so I think that helped. Also, the idea of using tea was a good one that we wanted to reward as well.
--Erik
Mechanically terrible? Which ones? I'd love your thoughts. There are a few that had a few issues, but I would hope we didnt let in any that are terrible.We didnt reward gonzo wierdness. I dont think any of them are gonzo wierdness. Believe me, we saw some that were gonzo wierdness and rejected them--arquebus of pillows comes to mind.
But we definately wanted to see creativity. I mean, this was RPG Superstar.
Woohoo!
As the submitter of the "arquebus of pillows" I appreciate at least knowing why my entry was rejected. At least it stood out from the crowd enough that you remembered it by name. For that, at least, I am thankful.
And being the creator of "gonzo weirdness".... I can live with that.
But I guess in the judge's definition "gonzo weirdness" <> "creative". *shrug*
And for those that care, the Arquebus of Pillows is posted in the "losing entries" thread on page 1.
If your item referenced a Paizo product in its fluff, was that a reason to auto-reject it? I noticed that none of the top 32 referenced Pathfinder or anything else Paizo has put out. I don't remember where in the rules I read it, but I thought SRD and Paizo Pathfinder was acceptable for background.
RPG Superstar 2013
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Dedicated Voter Season 6, Dedicated Voter Season 7, Dedicated Voter Season 8, Star Voter Season 9
aka Steven T. Helt
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I'd love to hear from the grumps about which items they think are so sucky.
I think I might need to review my rhetoric a little.
The last thing I want is to be thought of as one of the grumps. I won't say I'm not disappointed in some of the selections over mine, but I also see that several people feel that way. I hope I have been clear in my support for the judge's effort, and that I seem aware to Erik and everyone else that there are a lot of reasons for keeping or tossing an item.
Maybe I need practice and polish. Sometimes in life you observe that people who don't get it, don't get that they don't get it. Maybe I don't get that I don't get it, and I'll look inside me, and at this contest and try to learn something new and get better. I have other opportunities to get submissions in. If I can learn here, that will help me there.
But I also feel it's important to be honest. Maybe I disagree with some of the final choices, but this is a fantastic idea, the judges and administrators are brilliant, and what they decide is both important and final.
Except in the case where people are 70 words over. : }
And, seriously, the ear necklace and the shadow compass-thingy are superstar items.
Anyway...I am losing my powers of speech with the four screaming kids yelling 'We want to buy a house! We want to buy a house!' My head really hurts behind my left eye, and if I have come off as less a guy with an opinion and a little confusion, and more as an ass who submitted a mediocre item and doesn't realize it, then I apologize. This community is important to me, and I still feel like I have writing to do for the industry. I don't want to burn any bridges.
And even if I were inclined to use words like 'sucky', I promise I wouldn't single any items out. I would draw the line before that.
In like five minutes, my oldest daughter will stop hitting me with the strings on her pants and saying 'bad string!' I will then reread this post and wonder if I just shouldn't go ahead with the lobotomy. If I can still edit mself to make more sense when (if) she stops hitting me with the string, I will.
Really, as long as none of the judges really wanted me to contract malaria, I am okay with not advancing.
I just don't want malaria, is all.
I'd love to hear from the grumps about which items they think are so sucky.
Well... I don't want to be catagorized as a grump, and I've come t terms with my own lack of Superstardom...
But I had some issues with one of them, and it was also one that you rejected.
I wasn't crass or rude and I wished the fellow good luck in the next round though, and I'll give his Country Submission a fair shake.
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RPG Superstar 2013
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Dedicated Voter Season 6, Dedicated Voter Season 7, Dedicated Voter Season 8, Star Voter Season 9
aka Steven T. Helt
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The Seer's Tea was an interesting way to pull off something we saw more than 30 times in the contest--an augury item. It was one of the best of those, so I think that helped. Also, the idea of using tea was a good one that we wanted to reward as well.
--Erik
I really like the seer's tea. It fits what I perceived as a wondrous item: magic tea leaves, magic beans, gandalf's pipe. That sort of thing. I like to thnk I didn't get in because I was another divination item and the judges prefered tea over pillow.
Perhaps my pillow should have come with a set of twin sisters and had a strong enchantment aura. Could that have done it?
RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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Star Voter Season 6
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I'll cut the suspense. Some of the comments on losing entries were brutal, and you don't want to read them.
The judges have been discussing putting together some sort of essay about our methodology with some anecdotes about what worked and what didn't, common themes, etc. That's probably the closest we'll get to revealing the commentary on items that didn't make the cut.
Just please don't slap a hard cover on it and call it "Paizo presents- Superstar Methodolgies." ;-)
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Chief Technical Officer
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I will then reread this post and wonder if I just shouldn't go ahead with the lobotomy...
In the spirit of the competition, I'd recommend a trepanation instead. The side effects might be more fun.
The Seer's Tea was an interesting way to pull off something we saw more than 30 times in the contest--an augury item. It was one of the best of those, so I think that helped. Also, the idea of using tea was a good one that we wanted to reward as well.
--Erik
I can't believe I entered an augury item! 30+ ???
I choose the augury item because I figured there wouldn't be that many.Beat out by tea!
I bet its flavorful, aromatic, ....I'm gonna go make some tea...
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Chief Creative Officer, Publisher
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Other items hovering around 10+:
Cloaks that billow on their own accord.
Stuff having to do with the Shadow Plane.
Swiss Army Knives (all-in-one magic items).
Hunting items.
I'm sure Clark and Wolf can add to the list. There were some definite themes. Augury was definitely the most prevalent, though.
I'm just a little frustrated seeing how all these mechanically terrible items got through on sheer gonzo weirdness. I mean, I realize my item isn't anywhere near as good as some of the top tier contenders, but my goodness... some of the stuff I'm considering to be the back of the pack, I can't imagine HOW they got into the top 32.
I'm in the same boat but I think its just a bit of sour grapes. I suspect that if you took another look at these items in a couple of weeks when the pain has worn off you'll at least see were the judges are coming from if not necessarily always agree.
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I'm in the same boat but I think its just a bit of sour grapes. I suspect that if you took another look at these items in a couple of weeks when the pain has worn off you'll at least see were the judges are coming from if not necessarily always agree.
I feel somewhat the same about a couple of the items – great idea, but I would have thought that the mechanical or design issues would have edged them out of the Superstar category.
But I think there’s a few things that we need to keep in mind; the judges are industry professionals (and good designers themselves) who are obviously looking for (and finding) a certain “X” factor that may outweigh mechanical issues (which can be fixed more easily than a poor idea can).
Another thing is, that given all the comments leading up to this, about all the great entries the judges were seeing, I think our collective expectations were set really high – perhaps unrealistically so. Perhaps as such some of us are judging more harshly than the judges themselves did.
Lastly, there’s always going to be a certain amount of personal opinion inherent in a thing like this; for those couple of items that I don’t quite think should have made it, half a dozen people have posted saying they love them.
Good. You should have very high standards, and you are right to point out editorial problems.
2) ...the fact of the matter is that even true superstars--authors whose names everyone on this thread will recognize--routinely turn in work with missing words, spelling errors, or just plain old mistakes. The only authors who do not have this problem, it seems, are folks trained as professional editors, who tend to give their work several courtesy proofs before submitting. ...
Wolfgang will fire me for revealing this, but the "only authors do not have this problem" part does not necessarily apply to writers with professional editor training. ;)
Anyway, I think the contest has done us all a world of good. We've written a lot, learned a lot, and seen a lot.
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Other items hovering around 10+:
Cloaks that billow on their own accord.
Stuff having to do with the Shadow Plane.
Swiss Army Knives (all-in-one magic items).
Hunting items.
I'm going to imagine I was the only Indian Cups item, and I'm going to pretend that this helped me make the Top 100 to assuage my bruised ego.
2) All professional products DO go through an editorial process. While we prefer that submissions (both for this and for products) are as clean as humanly possible, the fact of the matter is that even true superstars--authors whose names everyone on this thread will recognize--routinely turn in work with missing words, spelling errors, or just plain old mistakes. The only authors who do not have this problem, it seems, are folks trained as professional editors, who tend to give their work several courtesy proofs before submitting. A tight manuscript helps a writer rise to the top of the pile, but cool ideas come into play too. The best designers--the true Superstars, if you will--are able to do both.
This is sort of self selecting. To be a professional editor you need tha ability to see things like missing words. Its really something of a talent. A great many people simply auto-fill such blanks, especially in their own writing. In the end this is good for professional editors - keeps those ever so pretty pay cheques coming, if everyone could edit professionally then we would not need editors.
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Kobold Press
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Wolfgang will fire me for revealing this, but the "only authors do not have this problem" part does not necessarily apply to writers with professional editor training. ;)
Anyway, I think the contest has done us all a world of good. We've written a lot, learned a lot, and seen a lot.
You're fired. :)
In my defense, that manuscript was 100,000 words and it did get one courtesy proofing/edit before turnover.
But the larger point is completely valid: material never comes in from writers as perfect and without flaws. Editors (and judges) must deciding which flaws are fixable, and which flaws are not.
Both "boring" and "too weird" are generally not fixable.
Both "boring" and "too weird" are generally not fixable.
One judge's "boring" can be another judge's "awesome" ... or readers' for that matter...
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Director of Game Development
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Dedicated Voter Season 7, Dedicated Voter Season 8, Star Voter Season 9
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I didn’t know the best place to post this, so I chose here. This thread is less likely for this post to get lost in the shuffle. I had a grammar question.
I agonized over a sentence in my entry trying to clean up a singular use of passive voice that the spell description and the SRD used. I finally looked over all the winners and only three entries are completely clean of misspellings, bad grammar and passive voice. Five were without passive voice.
Was I wrong to put so much emphasis on proper grammar in a writing/design contest?
More to the point, while I know that passive voice is not always ‘bad’, is it more acceptable when being used for descriptions like spells and magic items?
Was I wrong to put so much emphasis on proper grammar in a writing/design contest?
One important thing to remember is that half of those who passed this round will be knocked out in a week. In a stage that depends much more on writing ability than pure concept.
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Chief Creative Officer, Publisher
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More to the point, while I know that passive voice is not always ‘bad’, is it more acceptable when being used for descriptions like spells and magic items?
Passive voice is the most common problem with otherwise talented writers. Many professional writers struggle with this. Actually, I think almost all professional writers struggle with this.
It was right of you to make your entry as clean as possible. Messy items were less likely to advance, though it was not impossible.
If we limited the contest to perfect items with no passive voice problems, no balance problems, and perfect pricing, we'd have a contest with five awesome items, seven boring ones, and 846 rejects.
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I agonized over a sentence in my entry trying to clean up a singular use of passive voice that the spell description and the SRD used. I finally looked over all the winners and only three entries are completely clean of misspellings, bad grammar and passive voice. Five were without passive voice.Was I wrong to put so much emphasis on proper grammar in a writing/design contest?
My initial assumption was that things like this would be just as important as a good idea or a clear grasp of the rules. In retrospect, this was probably quite a silly assumption at this early stage of the competition – it would probably be counter-productive to discard a good idea because of some minor (or even major) writing errors. It also may count rather harshly against people of non English speaking backgrounds. But as the competition continues I will be expecting excellent grammar and spelling (as well as ideas and grasp of the rules).
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Director of Game Development
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Dedicated Voter Season 7, Dedicated Voter Season 8, Star Voter Season 9
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One important thing to remember is that half of those who passed this round will be knocked out in a week. In a stage that depends much more on writing ability than pure concept.
I'm picking up what you're putting down, but I didn't expect the basic weaning to take place in the second (or third) round, especially after judges chiming in and the strong emphasis put on solid work. I am actually just curious (from professional designers and publishers) if passive voice is actually that much of a big deal compared to what I've heard/seen. More importantly is it that much of a big deal when it comes to certain design elements, such as items, spells and feats?
*Daigle curses the bastards that taught him to clean up his words.
I didn’t know the best place to post this, so I chose here. This thread is less likely for this post to get lost in the shuffle. I had a grammar question.
I agonized over a sentence in my entry trying to clean up a singular use of passive voice that the spell description and the SRD used. I finally looked over all the winners and only three entries are completely clean of misspellings, bad grammar and passive voice. Five were without passive voice.
Was I wrong to put so much emphasis on proper grammar in a writing/design contest?
More to the point, while I know that passive voice is not always ‘bad’, is it more acceptable when being used for descriptions like spells and magic items?
We arent fans of grammar errors. BUT we had a big debate on this. Erik's position was the one we came to adopt: we didnt take the stance that to be top 32 means the item needs NO editing. Plus, these boards draw people from many countries. We didnt drop the hammer for a few grammar problems.
So we appreciate your agonizing over grammar, etc. I think you should do that. But we didnt require perfectly pristine entries. It would have been impossible.
One important thing to remember is that half of those who passed this round will be knocked out in a week. In a stage that depends much more on writing ability than pure concept.I'm picking up what you're putting down, but I didn't expect the basic weaning to take place in the second (or third) round, especially after judges chiming in and the strong emphasis put on solid work. I am actually just curious (from professional designers and publishers) if passive voice is actually that much of a big deal compared to what I've heard/seen. More importantly is it that much of a big deal when it comes to certain design elements, such as items, spells and feats?
*Daigle curses the bastards that taught him to clean up his words.
We certainly didnt say: "hey, a bit of passive voice is ok, its only a wondrous item." Nor do I think spells or items mean PV is more acceptable. It should be cut down where it grows, no matter what the writing assignment.
But PV is everywhere. And requiring submissions to be free from it would have done what Erik said--left us with 5 entries.
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Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 6
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Dedicated Voter Season 6
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But PV is everywhere. And requiring submissions to be free from it would have done what Erik said--left us with 5 entries.
Hmm. It isn't quite the false rules of English that split infinitives and ending sentences with prepositions are, but really, it's hard to entirely avoid using the passive voice in writing, including good writing. Avoiding the passive voice is pretty low on my own list of writing sins to avoid :)
A better rule is to avoid cumbersome or vague sentences, which is tends to cover the abuses of the passive voice.
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Most of the winners, I agree were superior in over all creativity. I'm a little disappointed with some of the mechanics and game balance issues I see with alot of them. My perception was that you were looking for a final product. I still think my 'Heart of Healing' submission was better than at least a couple of these entries if not half a dozen of them. I have to ask, was my submission even received?
I just wish I could see what the judges said about my item...
I'm in total heart felt agreement with these posts. I'm honestly and professionally curious as to what the judges said about my 'Heart of Healing' submission. Just copy and paste the comments into an email and toss it my way thrikreed@gmail.com If the judges want to protect their identities, change the judges names (bob, john 1, and john 2. I'll still know where the item stands in the eyes of the judges as a group, even if I don't know what a specific judge said.
I'll be straight with you: I'd much rather receive brutally honest commentary than none at all... I suppose the point I'm trying to make is as follows: I want to be better than I am, but how can I do that without first being shown where I am going wrong? How am I to fix my creations if I am unable to even determine where to start?
Thank you.
Btw, do the authors of the failed entries retain the copyright on their entries?
I knew I was going to lose when I wrote my submission. I went into the contest with the mindset of "I'm going to kick myself if I don't at least enter something, so here goes..."
My item was called "The Boots of the Nimble Guardian." It was basically a set of boots that gave +10 movement speed and bestowed the Mobility feat on the wearer. No fluff, basic crunch, simple function. It was something I came up with awhile ago to help clerics and paladins get around the battlefield to help their fallen allies. Takes some of the "sting" out of 20 ft. movement for heavy armor. ;)
I just wanted to say I sent in SOMETHING, even if I knew I didn't have any awesome plans to wow the judges with.
For the record, I liked your item :)