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For each new round, at the appropriate time, will you be publically posting the guidelines for the submissions of each round or will that information be provided only to those who make the cut into each new level?
It seems people are very interested in knowing the criteria for:
- Design a country
- Design a villain (complete with stat block)
- Design three thematically linked monsters
- Design an encounter
- Submit a full adventure proposal
I think most people will understand if it is kept to the contestants only, but then it seems there may be others who might enter into a suicide pact if they don't get to see the criteria.
I would hope that the criteria would be listed for all to see. I mean in the upcoming rounds it will be us, the people on the boards, that decides who advances and who gets left behind. The 3 judges will give us their opinions, but it's the Paizo community that will vote for whom they like. Part of my making an informed desicion on the 32 that do make it, will be if they actually did what was asked of them.
My question is after reviewing all 32 hopefuls do I make 1 vote for my favorite, or do I vote for my favorite 16?
Who can vote in the RPG Superstar contest?
During the Open Call round of the contest, the official judges will decide which 32 entrants go to the next round. In each subsequent round, each person with an account on paizo.com will be able to cast one vote.
I just answered my own question.
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My question is after reviewing all 32 hopefuls do I make 1 vote for my favorite, or do I vote for my favorite 16?
Yeah, the voting method will matter. If everyone gets 4 votes against, I'd go with something different than one where everyone gets 4 votes for. And even 16 votes for would be different than 1 vote for.
I've got a country idea that 15% will love, and 30% will hate. I've got another one (that I'm less happy with) which is more "meh" and likely won't provoke hate or love.
I figure I've got about a 3% chance of making it, so I've not spent a lot of time on this :-) I'm also worried that the country restrictions will be killer (must be in world "X" or must be a gerontocracy or something).
Mark
Chief Technical Officer
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For each new round, at the appropriate time, will you be publically posting the guidelines for the submissions of each round or will that information be provided only to those who make the cut into each new level?
We'll be publishing the new assignment along with the list of people advancing to the next round (and no sooner).
Part of my making an informed desicion on the 32 that do make it, will be if they actually did what was asked of them.
Note that the judges, in addition to commenting on the entries, will also determine whether or not each entry has actually met the established criteria. (For example, if we set a word count, and a contestant goes over that limit, the judges will eliminate that contestant before voting begins.)
And yes, each voter gets to vote for only one contestant each round.
Hey Vic,
Here is a more subtle twist...
Will people be able to see how others are voting, before or after they vote? For example: like an online poll often allows you to see the results?
Or will it be a blind ballot?
If I may be so bold, I advocate completely blind voting. As I understand it there will be message boards to allow discussion of the offerings in the later rounds. That's great, and that's a good way for people to get different perspectives on the various offerings. I think it would be cool if people really considered who they voted for, and I don't object to group discussion of that.
But my concern is that if voters get to see polling graph bars, that makes voting by popularity and laziness too easy. "I don't have time to look over all 32 entries, so I'll go with what most people are voting for.."
They still might do that- based on what they read on the message boards, but at least they'll have really read and enagaged the material like the judges did in their first round.
And I hope that most people would read and engage anyway, so I hope no one takes offense to that.. if anything I'm just taking a cue from how political elections some go..
Thanks for listening!
We will not show standings during voting. In fact, we won't be providing standings *after* the vote either—just the list of people who will proceed to the following round. (We may identify the top vote-getter, though.)
Cool Vic, that's great. Thanks for the reply! And I think showing the top vote getter after the votes have been tallied is probably fine.. Ultimately there will only be one top vote getter..
Question: Will the advancing author(s) published in connection with the entry they submit for the next round ?
I worry a little bit over relative unknowns competing with the "personalities" of the boards' built-in popularity.
OR the disadvantage that certain folks might deal with if they are unable to actively explicate/discuss their entries on the discussions that might pop up after the voting begins ....
Then again, this is all so new and exciting that it's ANYONE'S guess how the contest will continue to roll out after each round.
Question: Will the advancing author(s) published in connection with the entry they submit for the next round ?Yes. The "anonymous" portion of the contest will end with the revelation of the top 32.
However, will the next 32 entries also be sanitized? In other words, the 32 winners will be made public, but when (if?) they submit their next entry, will we see who wrote the entry or not when it comes time to vote?
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Chief Technical Officer
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However, will the next 32 entries also be sanitized? In other words, the 32 winners will be made public, but when (if?) they submit their next entry, will we see who wrote the entry or not when it comes time to vote?Question: Will the advancing author(s) published in connection with the entry they submit for the next round ?Yes. The "anonymous" portion of the contest will end with the revelation of the top 32.
The top 32 contestants and their entries will be identified by name, as will all of their future entries throughout the process, both to the judges and to the public.
Thanks Vic !
Well, I hope that I will have the opportunity to stump for the next round then :)
Star Voter Season 8
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The top 32 contestants and their entries will be identified by name, as will all of their future entries throughout the process, both to the judges and to the public.
This is a mistake.
Listing the 32 names is fine -- even connecting them to their Wondrous Item -- but puting a person's name on his country will lead to some folks voting -- especially in a close competition -- for {i]big name[/i] Paizo personalities.
Surely you've considered this; why are you taking away anonymity?
-W. E. Ray
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This is a mistake.Listing the 32 names is fine -- even connecting them to their Wondrous Item -- but puting a person's name on his country will lead to some folks voting -- especially in a close competition -- for {i]big name[/i] Paizo personalities.
Surely you've considered this; why are you taking away anonymity?
-W. E. Ray
If it’s being voted on by the Paizo community … how can this information really be suppressed? What’s to stop someone posting and saying “that one’s mine” ?
This competition – for better or worse – is being modelled on the “Idol” style competitions. Those are not pure talent contests, there is a huge “popularity” factor in these things.
Besides, what’s to say that any of the boards’ “big names” will make the 32? And if they do … well, while I am sure that personality and popularity will play a part, I think you need to give this community some credit for (hopefully) voting based on talent and good ideas rather than popularity.
Yes, I concede that popularity might play its part in an otherwise close contest, but without restricting the voting to Paizo staff, I don’t see how this issue can be avoided. It’s part of the contest.
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Chief Technical Officer
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Surely you've considered this; why are you taking away anonymity?
One reason is that we're looking for a superstar, after all, and personality is indeed part of the picture. Take, for example, Messrs. Pett and Logue—sure, their design chops got people paying attention to them, but their interactions with folks here on the boards have elevated their status in the eyes of many.
Further, we're hoping that the interaction between contestants, judges, and voters is going to help the contestants grow as designers, and we think that's more likely if everyone involved isn't locked behind a wall of anonymity. Because the contestants are identified, we think you'll more easily see how responsive a particular designer has (or hasn't) been to the judges and the voters.
Finally, we *do* actually want campaigning. Part of the point of this contest, after all, is to draw attention to paizo.com, our community, and our products, and the more we have people motivated to bring new people in, the better. (I also have faith that a significant portion of our community will vote based on the quality of the submissions alone.)
The top 32 contestants and their entries will be identified by name, as will all of their future entries throughout the process, both to the judges and to the public.This is a mistake.
Listing the 32 names is fine -- even connecting them to their Wondrous Item -- but puting a person's name on his country will lead to some folks voting -- especially in a close competition -- for {i]big name[/i] Paizo personalities.
Surely you've considered this; why are you taking away anonymity?
-W. E. Ray
That's true. This is based on American Idol, it's always been to some degree both about ability AND personality. That's not necessarily a mistake, it's simply the model they've chosen.
Just like in American Idol, we will probably discover someone worthy getting rejected mid-process because they aren't popular enough and the votes aren't there despite their performance.
But also like American Idol, merely getting to the later rounds may translate into a success, either by being noticed by people who publish (not just at paizo, but also at Necromancer and the KQ) or by the public (who could, despite their votes, still start demanding adventures by the runner up).
I've never been good at popularity contests... people tend to like me until they have to vote, then there is always someone better... but it's not stopping me from trying.
There are lots of ways this contest discriminates... first and foremost against any designer who isn't fantastic at magic item design. Lots of designers are good at everything but designing new items, and we'll lose out on seeing a lot of good material from that group.
On the other hand: who are big name paizo personalities.... it depends on which paizo forums you read. Some people post everywhere and others don't. Some people are only involved as PbP, others only read the Dragon forums or the Other categories. Some are quiet as posters but active on the paizo chat. GGG posts frequently, but I don't think I've ever seen him in the chat. The bottom line is that the only thing you can do is try to ignore the names, and hope the community will take the time to read the entries instead of the names.
- Ashavan
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Star Voter Season 8
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That's true. This is based on American Idol, it's always been ...about ability AND personality.
The Entertainment industry is about popularity -- I don't feel writting a quality adventure scenario should be, or is.
Messrs. Pett and Logue, ...their interactions with folks here on the boards have elevated their status in the eyes of many.
BIG difference. This occurs after they have written some well received adventures, not before. And, something else to consider, "Devil Box" may have gotten Pett some "chops" as a neat adventure but Mona's(?) spectacular editorial in that issue -- featuring Pett's first adventure, did tremendous publicity for it. Even still, it wasn't until "The Styes" that Pett became a Superstar. (I can't give a Logue example because I'm in the Pett camp ;)
We're hoping that the interaction between contestants, judges, and voters (helps growth) as designers, and we think that's more likely if everyone involved isn't locked behind a wall of anonymity.
I don't believe that knowing the names of the 32 folks but not knowing the names of their countries will be a detriment to a designer's growth.
At all.
Well, unless one is cut before the next round.
Because the contestants are identified, we think you'll more easily see how responsive a particular designer has (or hasn't) been to the judges and the voters.
But not if he/she is eliminated.
Finally, we *do* actually want campaigning. Part of the point of this contest, after all, is to draw attention to paizo.com, our community, and our products.
Well that cinches it. I aquiesce. You're right; I'm wrong.
I also have faith that a significant portion of our community will vote based on the quality of the submissions alone.
Sheesh, don't have to rub it in, man; I said you win.
-W. E. Ray
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RPG Superstar 2013
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Dedicated Voter Season 6, Dedicated Voter Season 7, Dedicated Voter Season 8, Star Voter Season 9
aka Steven T. Helt
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Well..as spirited as that was, I have to say I never saw a choice for Paizo besides releasing names and allowing campaigning. It seemed clear that this is an cinch to get brand new people over to the site to check things out. It's not just an opportunity to find another great contributor to add to the stable, but damn good marketing. Kudos to Ms. Stevens and the rest of the staff for this awesome, fun idea. Win or lose, I'll be sending everyone I can here to vote for the RPG Superstar!
I will try to be encouraging to everyone that makes the second round, but if I make it, I'm campaigning for the win. I have wanted to write for a long time, and even if I manage restaurants the rest of my life, I would love a little extra money and my name in print.
So if you're afraid of an industry guy winning this competition and you want to see one of the unheard of guys break through, consider Ancient Sensei: an Iron Dungeon Master with lots of original ideas and an all-around nice guy.
I'm Ancient Sensei, and I approved this message.
Finally, we *do* actually want campaigning.
Vote for me or banshees will haunt your dreams with Wiggle’s tunes.
Hmm, Campaigning you say...
Well I am not sure I could have this many people in my Campaign! Thats a lot of characters to try to run...
If I get voted onto the Island i refuse to do a bikini challenge, my hairy legs just would scare people as much as my manly gut would frighten the children that may be watching at home.
I can also say that I have no intention of petitioning for world peace, what kind of game would it be if all the various races got along chipper and just wanted tea and biscuits instead of a good fight!
If I get votes I promise to remember the little people... IE: the players that have inspired me to run games. ;)
That was kind of fun. But I think I am done now.
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The thing to keep in mind is that ultimately Paizo is in business to make money. With all the hours (time is money) the judges and Paizo staff have already put into this contest it is important that the end result help sales. If the person who makes it into the finalist position is someone everyone is familiar with or not, what we all need to hope happens is that it results in sales for Paizo. I am committed to purchasing the winning product from this tournamant. If I win, I'm buying a case. It is possible that people will vote for the personalities, but in the end, I would think that people are going to vote for the writer they would like to read and would be willing to spend some of their hard earned dough on. If the end result of this is that someone wins that results in poor overall sales, I would guess that we should look for significant changes, if Paizo were to run the tournament again at all. If popularity on the boards were all it took to get a contract, why bother running the contest. Thus far, everything I have seen and read from the judges, staff and participants leads me to believe that Paizo is doing everything that they can, within reason, to keep the playing field level. I for one want to be able to talk to the writers on the boards and be able to ask them questions. So personality does play a role in the tournament. Anyone wishing to campaign for my vote is welcome to wash my car and mow my lawn and still you only have a 50/50 chance of getting it :) Good Luck and Happy Thankgiving
You know, this is downright odd, but your avatar makes your post seem angry. I think it's the crossed arms.
We arent looking for industry guys. And if an industry guy were in it, I would email him and ask him what the heck he was doing. Look, if Nick Logue wanted to do a book for Necro, all he has to do is email me. Or if he wanted to do one for Mona, all he has to do is email him. And both of us would say, "hey sounds great, shoot me a proposal." He doesnt have to jump through the hoops of a contest like this.
This contest is designed to find NEW talent.
I have absolute faith in this community that it will vote for the talent based on the content of the submission. The other stuff will simply generate a ton of discussion. But in the end the votes will be on the content, in my opinion.
I have faith in the current community, more or less, but the voting isn’t limited to the community. Once an item is good enough to hit the 32 and public judging starts, all it will take is a guild wide tell in a MMORPG or a few Digg’s to “go here and create an account to vote for my thing,” and the rest of the entries are done for. I’d be surprised if they get read at all.
I have faith in the current community, more or less, but the voting isn’t limited to the community. Once an item is good enough to hit the 32 and public judging starts, all it will take is a guild wide tell in a MMORPG or a few Digg’s to “go here and create an account to vote for my thing,” and the rest of the entries are done for. I’d be surprised if they get read at all.
Agreed, though in a way that is almost the point. You got fifty friends with internet access who've never visited the Piazo boards? Well then! Come on over.... Really the only way to make this impartial would be to have computers (or just the judges) vote because -and let's face it- every contestant is going to know what their entry looks like and will pass that info on to their online buds regardless of whether a name is attached to it or not. For instance, in the WotC version of this contest -The Best Adventure I Never Wrote- I have an entry or three up for voting. I could spill the beans here and probably get a few more votes, but I'm probably not gonna go that route. I'll tell my buds, my family, and maybe a few others, but beyond that I don't think I'll shill here.
GGG
“Glass half empty? I ordered a cheeseburger, dangit!”
Yeah, I hear what you are saying, although the pessimistic side of me wonders if the one person who stops to buy something is worth the overhead of a thousand dead accounts and a website too clogged to permit legitimate business. Oh well, at any rate it ought to help get the word out about Paizo even more.
I almost prefer the current "gong show" method.
The title Superstar implies popularity. It is after all the people that create the Superstar, not the other way around. (that would be a God)
Let us have a little faith in our judges, in that they will give us 32 great contestants, and trust that the true Superstar will emerge by the will of the people.
I for one am ecstatic to be able to participate in this contest, and gratefull that Paizo decided to run a contest where we the players get to decide the final outcome.
BTW: I do have an entry pending, and if I make top 32, feel free to cast your votes my way.
~J~
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Director of Game Development
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Dedicated Voter Season 7, Dedicated Voter Season 8, Star Voter Season 9
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Though I've been hanging here for quite some time, I would hesitate to say that I'm a "personality" on these boards.
That said, even the crew that you see popping up on heaps of threads, people I do consider true friends, still disagree with each other on rules interpretations, flavor choices and table management (not to mention all kinds of other real life opinions and BS). We are all different gamers and share only our passion for gaming for the most part.
Though some folks that have been here for a while feel that they are family, I honestly do not think that will stop them from telling their peers honestly how they feel about another's entry nor will it keep them from voting honestly for which piece they feel appeals to them the most. Some of these voices will be heard loudly through the voting process I can only imagine.
I get a feeling that we will have a very hard time ourselves choosing one country out of the 32. Everyone get your red pencils and clear honest feelings out, this is gonna be a fun ride. Best of luck to everyone!
Yeah, I hear what you are saying, although the pessimistic side of me wonders if the one person who stops to buy something is worth the overhead of a thousand dead accounts and a website too clogged to permit legitimate business. Oh well, at any rate it ought to help get the word out about Paizo even more.
Primarily this is about getting the word out about Paizo. It is true that a whole lot of dead accounts will be generated but I guess you can equate the contest with spam email. You only need a couple of sales to break even.......
And yes, if I am one of the lucky 32. I will email my friends, their relatives, anyone to vote for me.
Vote for Darkjoy!
For instance, in the WotC version of this contest -The Best Adventure I Never Wrote- I have an entry or three up for voting. I could spill the beans here and probably get a few more votes, but I'm probably not gonna go that route. I'll tell my buds, my family, and maybe a few others, but beyond that I don't think I'll shill here.
GGG
Let me guess:
Forest of the Green God
There are some places man was not meant to go. Some places he should not even know about. The characters must brave a terrible haunted forest to rescue a girl who has gone missing into its depths. Mid to high-level.
One of yours?
Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4
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If I get voted onto the Island i refuse to do a bikini challenge, my hairy legs just would scare people as much as my manly gut would frighten the children that may be watching at home.
I can also say that I have no intention of petitioning for world peace, what kind of game would it be if all the various races got along chipper and just wanted tea and biscuits instead of a good fight!
If I get votes I promise to remember the little people... IE: the players that have inspired me to run games. ;)
Fair enough. You have my vote.
I, however, WILL do a bikini challenge.
Win OR lose.
Promise.
-- the Boom,
1/3 of the CreativeJuices Team,
Writer and Producer,
Player of Hennet, Blackrazor and Pazuzu
I have faith in the current community, more or less, but the voting isn’t limited to the community. Once an item is good enough to hit the 32 and public judging starts, all it will take is a guild wide tell in a MMORPG or a few Digg’s to “go here and create an account to vote for my thing,” and the rest of the entries are done for. I’d be surprised if they get read at all.
If everyone had more than one vote (say 3 - 1st-2nd-3rd with different weightings), they'd have spares to vote for their friend, and the unknown entry they actually like best as well. I'm an unknown, and feel a little oogy about online communities (of which I'm not a member - except this one) controlling the results of a live-gaming contest - I do want a chance at this.
I agree that I have faith in this community, though (I've seen too much truly good game criticism here). Besides - If I make the top 32, I'm sending Paizo a proposal sometime in the next year no matter if I get cut subsequently or not. :P This has been too much fun so far.
I knew it was a good idea to buy that banana hammock!
all it will take is a guild wide tell in a MMORPG or a few Digg’s to “go here and create an account to vote for my thing,”
Seriously, that sort of tactic sounds a bit like dirty pool to me. I really hope that isn't how things go.
Paizo ending up with the adventure-writer who best knows how to google-bomb the vote may not be the one they want to keep.
Of course, all the digg buddies or MMO guildies won't help you keep that writing gig once the contest is over, and the quality writers will be able to submit proposals on their own merits later.
Bribes. Must check the rules for crass bribes. A vote for me equals a dollar via paypal for you!
Though I've been hanging here for quite some time, I would hesitate to say that I'm a "personality" on these boards.
I associate your name with a post worth reading, typically.
Popularity wont be the controlling factor and its not like some turd will win this just because he or she can marshall votes. This isnt American Idol--we dont let the lame singers in just to mock them. Remember that you will be dealing with 32 people who wrote killer items. So you are already dealing with quality deisgn. And those dont come by accident. So Sanjia or whatever his/her name is wont be winning RPG Superstar just because he/she is popular. And beyond that, subsequent round winners will still have to submit entries for the subsequent rounds. So people who dont have the stamina to write and design stuff that is consistently good wont survive either.
This is going to be decided on merit. Not popularity.
Assuming I am good enough to make the top 32 I would be doomed as far as campaigning for a victory goes since I am a miserable old hermit and not all that personable. However, if I were to offer each of my students bonus points to vote for me....I smell class project!
Just kidding. I think the best submissions will ultimately be the Superstar because that is why people support Paizo and frequent these boards anyhow.
Good luck to the what I hope are the other 31...
Goo
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You know, this is downright odd, but your avatar makes your post seem angry. I think it's the crossed arms.
So hopefully, this one make my post seem wise?
I do have another couple of questions: Let us say, in this next round in particular, that 8 people get tons of votes. Leaving the remaining 24 with 1 vote each (giving the benefit of the doubt that people would at the very least vote for their own creation). How would that situation be handled? I doubt it would happen, but if a few are really and obviously, the most awesome, it could be a case where there are some ties on the short vote side. Something else to think about. If a few really shine, it may not take much to eek in on the backside of the 16 who move on say the 15th and 16th spot. I would expect that the farther down the pack a person is at that point the closer the voting will be. What happens in the event of a tie? Also, are you going to have alternates in the event someone gets DQ-ed, will you have one or two people working under the hope they might fly on stand-by?
You know, this is downright odd, but your avatar makes your post seem angry. I think it's the crossed arms.So hopefully, this one make my post seem wise?
No, you look older now ;>
ETA: Good question regarding DQ's (very wise of you)
Wow.
OK, I'll admit, I knew the question had the possibility of bringing up some intense debate, but ...
I had a feeling that the next round would not be anonymous, and I'll admit, if I get there I feel I'll have a lot of ground to catch up to some of the more prolific posters on the boards. I'm sure many others feel the same way, but I reiterate, I would love to have the chance to try to do so !
I do trust that superior content will win out in the end. After all, pretty much everyone here buys Paizo, and it behooves us to vote for the better bang for our buck.
At the end of the day, it's a nice chance to give some back and forth insight into the contestant's design process. I know most of us who entered the first round would relish the chance to explain the hows and whys of our Wonderous Items ...
And as for "Campaign Promises", I resist the urge to make "social contract gaming" jokes ....
Clark has a point.
By eliminating 818 entries, you're going to hopefully have 32 quality contestants left.
And not everyone will enter the next round, and the round after that. We can brainstorm all we want about nations, but without the guideline, there's going to be a week of crunch time. Not everyone will handle that well.
As for the popularity contest aspect to it, I think going back to my original post- blind voting is all you *can* do, really.
After that, you have to have some faith in the system. And if you end up thinking the system has let you down, then there are other ways to go about getting in the business. Those that came before us didn't have a contest like this to facilitate them. Another poster wisely said that this isn't the easiest way to break into the industry, but it might be faster. There's a trade-off there that you shouldn't forget.
A comment on board interactivity. Logue, Greer, Pett and Co. really do get on these boards and support their own work, and help pitch it to the community. They don't just drop the manuscript in the mail/e-mail and say "Seeya! Good luck! Thanks and looking forward to my check!" They're on the boards fielding questions, providing support, helping their own products be successful, because if Gallery of Evil or Pathfinder are successful, they get another contract. Simple as that. Disclaimer: That is not to say that they also don't do it because they're friendly people who want people to enjoy their purchase. Customer Service and Sincerity don't have to be mutually exclusive.
Lastly, I think there comes a point when you have to believe in yourself, and in what you're writing. Focus in what you think is great material rather than questioning what other people will think of it. Then, once your baby is finished, be prepared to discuss it.. because people will want to talk to you about it, and those discussions will make a difference. A little positive attitude and faith can go a long way!
Edit: Final thought, remember, some posts assume that Paizo board regulars will make it to the next round. That's why Vic and Gary scrubbed the names off. The judges have no clue as to who they're voting for. There's nothing to say that Board regulars will make the first cut. I'm not disparaging their abilities by any means, but pointing out that it isn't a foregone conclusion either. :D
You raise a good point. Monte Cook entered the setting design contest that Wizards held oh so long ago now with not one but two entries. Neither made the cut.
What you get to do now while the judges work is get the benefit of their insight and evaluations.
I am putting the finishing touches on the Round Two instructions for country design. I expect the assignment guidelines will be posted for all to see when the 32 winners from Round One are posted (though that decsion isnt up to me).
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Chief Technical Officer
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I am putting the finishing touches on the Round Two instructions for country design. I expect the assignment guidelines will be posted for all to see when the 32 winners from Round One are posted (though that decsion isnt up to me).
That's the plan! Wednesday, noon PST. It's must-see internet. Be there!
You better believe I'll be there to "see" that! Very curious to know what the requirements are going to be for the country design one way or the other!
"A blind man knows he cannot see, and is glad to be led, though it be by a dog; but he that is blind in his understanding, which is the worst blindness of all, believes he sees as the best, and scorns a guide”
~ Samuel Butler