Naah....Pokemon actual is evil. ;)
When the Michael Vick dogfighting scandal broke out, I had to explain it to my small daughters.
"Well, you see, this man took doggies and locked them up in small cages and made them very mean and then made them fight each other so bad people could watch."
"And that's bad, right Dad?"
"Right."
Not two days after, my oldest ran across Pokemon on the cartoon channel.
"What's this, dad?"
How the hell do you respond to that after the Michael Vick thing? Its just a cartoon and card game, right? Because all I was thinking at the time was "Well, its Pokemon, honey. They take small creatures, lock them up inside a small ball, turn them into monsters and make them fight each other so kids can watch."
Instead, I quickly turned it to Spongebob. We'll save Pokemon for when they're older.
Policeman bursts into room:
"What's this, Mr. Evleghy?"
Mr. Evleghy looks around nervously:
"Ummm..."
Policeman gets out handcuffs:
"I'm arresting you for cruelty to animals!"
Policeman and Mr. Evleghy leave room:
"Pikachu!"
I’ve been reading these boards for a long time, but this thread actually convinced me to get off my cute duff and get an acount so I could reply.
I was introduced to roelplaying (not DnD originally, but a bad DnD knock-off) by a guy who just wanted to get into my pants. My parents loved him, so he and I had more time alone than we probably should have, and things went badly. Then I heard all roleplaying was satanic, and beleived it. My sample size of 1 was pretty convincing.
Then I met a wonderful woman who both played DnD and happened to be a witch. My parents hated her. But I liked her much more than the boy who went wrong )(who my parents were still trying to reconnect me with, despit my protestations). I never played with her, but I did spend a lot of time with her and began to think niether witches nor DnD were what I had been told they were.
Then I went to college. Suddenly, I had access to the tools to investigate these qeustions for myself. I’m now myself a witch, and as heavily into DnD as a girl can be and still have any kind of social life. (It helps that my girlfriends and our two boyfriends are also heavily into DnD, although the guys are also big-time 40k freaks.)
I very rarely run into DnD prejudice anymore. What I do still run into are bad guys who happen to play DnD and what to use it to get into my pants. Mostly I see them coming a mile away nowdays. Occasionally, one manages to charm his way into a game or event for a few weeks before his real intentions are claer. DnD isn’t satanic, not even close. But it is an activity that places an imbalance of social power into the hands of the Dm and better players with more powerful characters. People who would take advantage of you other ways may try to take advantage of you in a DnD game. It’s also a good excuse to get a girl into your basement.
Im only mentionming all this because I know some girls who think all DnD players are saints, as a backlash against the DnD is devil-worship crowd. DnD is a game. The people who play it can be wonderful (usually), or suck )occasionally), and there’s still some strong anti-girl atitudes and behaviour out there. So, as with any activity, you need to be cautious where you go, and with who. (Of course for people who don’t get into pick-up games with strangers often, this doesn’t apply – play in your own basement with your close friends all you want.)
Thanks for a forum that can calmly discuss stuff like this.
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Thanks for your insight Dungeon Grrrl, and welcome to the boards.
Wow, I’ve never heard of using DnD as a route into a girl’s pants – mostly, in my experience, it’s been something of a deterrent if anything! But I guess there are jerks out there who will try anything, so the warning is likely a good thing.
I haven’t noticed an anti-girl attitude or power imbalance in any of the games I’ve been involved in, but having said that, most of the women I play with are partners of guys I play with, so maybe we’re coming from a different place; I don’t doubt that there’s some of that attitude out there, and I’m sorry you’ve experienced it. Glad that your DnD experience has gotten better since then!
yes, welcome. the more people to contribute valuable advice here on the boards, the better.
For the Postmonster (Reverse psychology! Bwahahahah):
Bewaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaare of the postmonsterrrrrrr...
HEY! You weren't really supposed to look here!!!
RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
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The gender balance, I think, has a lot to do with the maturity level of the games.
Thirteen years ago, I was a novice teacher at Northwest Junior High School in Coralville, Iowa. I introduced role-playing to the 7th-graders as a tool for literary analysis. ("Read a book, and then design a role-playing adventure for two or three people based on the book. But you can't wreck the plotline if anybody wants to read the book later...")
And that grew into the Coralville Association of Role-Players (or "CARP"; if you refereed a game, you became a "CARPy DM" which isalmost funny if you say it aloud). And kids --about 2/3rd girls-- came and ran role-playing adventures. So, what do you think was the most popular game among 12-year-old girls?
Shadowrun.
And that surprised me, and I asked why, and they really didn't know, but they like playing characters from Shadowrun. And I thought about it, and looked through the book, and it was obvious.
"Is that because there are female characters in the game?"
"Yeah, I guess so."
The other big hit was Castle Falkenstein, for the same reason.
All the PC's in AD&D were guys, or girls wearing very little. (Anybody remember Strength limitations on female characters? How about Comliness bonuses?) Female NPC's were hapless, helpless, or evil.
When D&D finally did break through the group, it was the D&D Cyclopedia, which quietly, matter-of-factly, had women working right alongside the guys.
It also had human characters of different ethnicities. That's really gone by the wayside, hasn't it? When was the last time you saw a non-Caucasian dwarf or elf?
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When I was young and first wanted to get involved with D&D, my mom prevented me based on the 80's suicide craze. Then, when she found out that my cousin was allowed to play it, she asked his mother what it was about and was satisfied enough to let me play. So, no real trouble there.
My girlfriend's parents were much more concerned (and much more religious). They didn't want her playing because of the Satanism angle, so I went over and made a logical, rational presentation on what the game is all about and how it involves conflicts against evil and is based on the Lord of the Rings and all that. They nodded politely, and refused to give credence to anything I'd said. So I stopped caring whether they approved of it, and we just played at my house. I'm guessing they wouldn't care now, given that I recently ran a Star Wars RPG at their house with no objections.
Presently, I find that there's a much larger dorkiness stigma attached to the hobby. I believe that there are people I work with who would genuinely think less of me as a person if they found out I'm into RPGs. The comedy in this presented itself to me most recently at a party, where I realized that I would be more ashamed to discuss D&D with them than they were to discuss their (extensive) drug histories with me.
The gender balance, I think, has a lot to do with the maturity level of the games.
Thirteen years ago, I was a novice teacher at Northwest Junior High School in Coralville, Iowa. I introduced role-playing to the 7th-graders as a tool for literary analysis. ("Read a book, and then design a role-playing adventure for two or three people based on the book. But you can't wreck the plotline if anybody wants to read the book later...")
And that grew into the Coralville Association of Role-Players (or "CARP"; if you refereed a game, you became a "CARPy DM" which isalmost funny if you say it aloud). And kids --about 2/3rd girls-- came and ran role-playing adventures. So, what do you think was the most popular game among 12-year-old girls?
Shadowrun.
And that surprised me, and I asked why, and they really didn't know, but they like playing characters from Shadowrun. And I thought about it, and looked through the book, and it was obvious.
"Is that because there are female characters in the game?"
"Yeah, I guess so."
The other big hit was Castle Falkenstein, for the same reason.
All the PC's in AD&D were guys, or girls wearing very little. (Anybody remember Strength limitations on female characters? How about Comliness bonuses?) Female NPC's were hapless, helpless, or evil.
When D&D finally did break through the group, it was the D&D Cyclopedia, which quietly, matter-of-factly, had women working right alongside the guys.
It also had human characters of different ethnicities. That's really gone by the wayside, hasn't it? When was the last time you saw a non-Caucasian dwarf or elf?
Yeah, I've had a lot of trouble with the pictures everywhere--DRAGON mags, books, you get it. It made it impossible for me to be able to display a D&D book at school. Right now, I'm hoping to start a D&D club at school, but it might not work due to the fact that the moment a parent has a look at one of the books... BAM! And it's over. i sent some letters to DRAGON about it, but what with all those people saying that they liked the covers... Not saying that people haven't been complaining. Just that a lot of people haven't.
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Forgot to mention in my previous post on this subject that two of the players in my game are regular church goers.
They do the whole thing, singing in the choir, discussing the bible etc.
One of them even has a brother who is a minister.
And I'm the pagan of the group.
They don't try to convert me to christianity and I don't try and convert them.
We disagree on relgion, but that does not stop us gaming.
And all those devout religious types who are so worried about the immortal souls of gamers should consider how much strife religion has caused throughout history.
A lot of wars were fought because someone believed in a different god.
Perhaps the rest of the world should just leave gamers alone.
See, this is all amazing for me to read about. My old group was made up of myself (a Deist), a pagan, a wiccan, a devout paranoid agnostic and 2 taoists. Until I read most of these posts, I didn't think Christians played DnD, save for my one Catholic friend.
It's just really nice to know that Dungeons and Dragons can bring together people.
As for adding to the above, my father was iffy about Magic, Video Games and Dungeon and Dragons. He had grown up hearing about some nut with a sewing needle attacking people in his home town, but to this day I haven't found anything to support this claim (or why DnD had anything to do with it).
Thanks for your insight Dungeon Grrrl, and welcome to the boards.
Ditto! Welcome, Dungeon Grrrl, always happy to "see" another female gamer on the boards!
Wow, I’ve never heard of using DnD as a route into a girl’s pants.
While my early D&D experiences were not the same as Dungeon Grrrl's, this sort of attitude is not uncommon. There seems to be this assumption that if you're a girl playing D&D, you're available or "open" to advances (and this extends to video games as well). The anti-girl attitude is still around, but it really depends on the group you game with - sometimes there needs to be a quick establishment of "Hey, I'm here to game and don't downplay me because I'm a chick."
The gender balance, I think, has a lot to do with the maturity level of the games....The other big hit was Castle Falkenstein, for the same reason.
Falkenstein worked so well because the setting emphisized the diffrent strenghts of the social roles of the genders and everyone understands the social rules- ladies are clever, charming and intuitive, gentleman are honest, forthright and true. Always makes for great roleplaying.
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On the topic of religion being a factor in what types of people play D&D, I've found that it attracts a rather diverse group. For example, my gaming group consists of one agnostic (me), one Episcopalian, one new-age Zen wierdo, one Catholic, one neo-Druid, one Protestant minister (a former Jehovah's Witness), and one atheist. And for some reason, religion has never mattered. Nobody tries to press their religion (or lack thereof) onto anyone else.
Female gamers don't seem to be a problem around where I live. My current social group includes five of them. Female gamers use to not be that common because of the "dorkiness factor." That seems to be going away now. Unfortunately, you now get situations like what Dungeon Grrrl ran into. In fact one of the players in my Eberron game had a similar incident happen to her when she was in High School.
Holy crap! In what parallel universe does D&D = Stud? If that’s not proof of satan’s involvement, I don’t know what is.
He had grown up hearing about some nut with a sewing needle attacking people in his home town, but to this day I haven't found anything to support this claim (or why DnD had anything to do with it).
I believe the name for this person is “piquerist.”
Yeah, I've had a lot of trouble with the pictures everywhere--DRAGON mags, books, you get it. It made it impossible for me to be able to display a D&D book at school. Right now, I'm hoping to start a D&D club at school, but it might not work due to the fact that the moment a parent has a look at one of the books... BAM! And it's over....
All you need is a teacher like me around....
I am amused how many people think gaming is a turn off to all girls. (Anyone here watch Chuck? From a few weeks ago, when chuck first met Bryce "There's a girl in my dorm whose really into EverQuest." "Really?!")
While hot girls who love rpgs may be rare, we've out there. (And we seem to gather in small groups – maybe because we trust each other.) I've had a lot of sleepovers with four girls gaming in panties, and we talk about out paladin elf princeses and barbarian queens just as much as you boys talk about your ninja pirate necromencers.
But once some guys see girls gaming, they immediately try to figure out how to spend time with us. The they want to get us in the sack. And since I love gaming, and never have enough groups to satisfy me, a few have tried getting to me through my characters . I am a very active player, and in to the roleplay a much as the dicing, so hitting on my character results in me acting like i been hit on. And if your character is a nice guy, I may have my character react positively. (Never out of the realm of PG-13, except among known and tursted friends, but some guiys seem to go berserk if you're nice to them even IC, and want to make it OOC).
Of course if you are a good IC friend, that can translate OOC eventually, but it takes time (and you shouldn't push it) No girl can resist a knight who saves her sorceress from a fate worse than death. Just make sure the fate was fair, not arranged so you can impress me
Put another way, cheerleaders are expected to like football, so jocks show off for them. Girls with "I Heart It when You Talk Nerdy" plastered across a tight shirt are expected to like DnD (and I do!), and so geeks show off for me. Geeks who are also jerks try to find a way to manipulater me into a situation where OOC affection is expected for IC reasons. And when you're surrounded by four guys, in the basement of a dorm, next to the boiler, with three beers in you, you've got to be careful.
I know that sounds like common sense, but it isn't until you realize gamers are people like everyone else. I'll do anything for my boys, who I love and trust and game with whenever they are free. But i have to be careful with guys (and girls!) I don't know so well. And so you other gamer grrrls.
Unfortunately, you now get situations like what Dungeon Grrrl ran into. In fact one of the players in my Eberron game had a similar incident happen to her when she was in High School.
She okay? sometimes that stuff runs deeper than you mgiht think
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I know that sounds like common sense, but it isn't until you realize gamers are people like everyone else.
Yeah, good point. So many of the gamers I know are really cool, decent people, that I tend to forget that a few of them are real jerks.
Like so many other things out there -- it doesn't take many people to give the good ones a bad name.
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Many years ago, I was starting up a campaign for a group of mainly new players, and one of my female friends expressed an interest in joining the game. I was a little surprised, as she wasn’t that into fantasy or anything, although she was quite into drama and acting, which was good, as I was planning on running a role-play heavy game.
Well, she got quite into the game, roleplaying her character really well, learning the rules and everything, but eventually she kind of lost interest, and decided not to continue with the game. I was kind of bummed, thinking that maybe I wasn’t running a game that appealed to her, but she assured me that she’d just come to the conclusion that DnD wasn’t her thing.
Years passed, and we kind of drifted apart, but I saw her again a few years ago, and she asked me if I still gamed. I said yes, and asked her if she’d given any thought to picking it up again. She said “Oh, I ever only played that game because I had a massive crush on you, and I thought it would bring us closer. But when we played, you were always more interested in the game than me.”
Not quite sure what the moral of that story is, but there you have it.
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RPG Superstar 2013 Top 32
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Years passed, and we kind of drifted apart, but I saw her again a few years ago, and she asked me if I still gamed. I said yes, and asked her if she’d given any thought to picking it up again. She said “Oh, I ever only played that game because I had a massive crush on you, and I thought it would bring us closer. But when we played, you were always more interested in the game than me.”
Not quite sure what the moral of that story is, but there you have it.
Ouch.
Yeah, I've noticed that women don't really seem to understand how important gaming is to us. My wife, for example, doesn't understand how I could possibly value my weekend gaming sessions more than I value time with her and my daughter. Sometimes, they just need some time to get used to it and they come around eventually.* Sorry to hear it didn't work out for you.
*=
Director of Sales
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As a fairly tepid Catholic in my youth, I never really experienced any big issues with the "D&D=Satanic" thing.
There was one time it was brought up in my high school youth group. We were discussing various thing that can "lead you away from God" or somesuch and one of the other youths asked about roleplaying games (I started playing D&D in first grade, BTW).
The youth group leader said words to the effect of: "Well, you make a character and create a world... it sounds kind of like you're trying to usurp God's place..."
Of course the group jumped all over him. The general reaction was of incredulity and everybody took turns poking holes in him (obviously horribly ignorant) theories about the game. I actually kept quiet, myself, and listened because I didn't really care whether he thought it was right or not. The most interesting aspect for me was that the rest of the group, it seemed, played or appreciated D&D, which was something I didn't know. Afterwards, we all kinda laughed at the youth group leader for being such an idiot (this was far from the only time he was an idiot).
Other than that, I guess I've lucked out.
PS: Dungeon Grrrl... [leer] How YOU doin'? [/leer]*
Great story and welcome to the 'boards!
I've had a lot of sleepovers with four girls gaming in panties, and we talk about out paladin elf princeses and barbarian queens just as much as you boys talk about your ninja pirate necromencers.
That's awesome! Girls Only Pajama RPG party at GenCon! :D
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PS: Dungeon Grrrl... [leer] How YOU doin'? [/leer]*
** spoiler omitted **
Cos, you should get yourself one of my Eyebrow Rings of Seduction if you’re going to try that stuff.
PS: Dungeon Grrrl... [leer] How YOU doin'? [/leer]*
Go for it, dude. Her avatar's totally hot. I mean, people look like their avatars right?
...
I mean, five other people on these boards are big fat guys with a shrieking conjoined twin growing out of their foreheads.
Right?
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PS: Dungeon Grrrl... [leer] How YOU doin'? [/leer]*
Go for it, dude. Her avatar's totally hot. I mean, people look like their avatars right?
...
Unfortunately, the previously stern looking but handsome Cosmo recently suffered a horrible accident and had to be extensively bandaged around the head.
On the plus side, his avatar is now a perfect match for D Grrrl's avatar...
On that note James, do not fear, I'm sure there's some totally phat fem Kelubar (or are you a Shator?) out there somewhere for you.
PS: Dungeon Grrrl... [leer] How YOU doin'? [/leer]*
Go for it, dude. Her avatar's totally hot. I mean, people look like their avatars right?
...
I mean, five other people on these boards are big fat guys with a shrieking conjoined twin growing out of their foreheads.
Right?
Yep. an' I'm a kobold.
PS: Dungeon Grrrl... [leer] How YOU doin'? [/leer]*
Go for it, dude. Her avatar's totally hot. I mean, people look like their avatars right?
...
Unfortunately, the previously stern looking but handsome Cosmo recently suffered a horrible accident and had to be extensively bandaged around the head.
On the plus side, his avatar is now a perfect match for D Grrrl's avatar...
On that note James, do not fear, I'm sure there's some totally phat fem Kelubar (or are you a Shator?) out there somewhere for you.
That illustration from the Savage Tide with the demodand puking a stream of acid on the iconic druid...set my heart aflutter. Oh, the bittersweet memories.
I’m such a massive geek that I can’t figure when a chick likes me.
Don’t feel bad, trying to get someone else to figure out you are interested them typically requires something akin to swatting a fly with a Buick.
I mean, people look like their avatars right?
I’m from Italian stock, so yeah, six hours after I finish shaving I do tend to look like my avatar….(thankfully I don’t have “the sweater” though).
with a shrieking conjoined twin growing out of their foreheads.
I would so totally go for a second head, but I just know instead of spouting profanity, mine would be all super nice and annoy the bejesus out of me. “Psst, dude, go help that old lady.” (a little too loudly) “Psst, hey man, give that kid your seat.” “Of course we’re carrying exact change!” “I said, sure, we’ve got an extra $5 in our wallet!”
I’m so prudish, even pseudo joking passive aggressive advances on message boards make me uncomfortable. Curse you Catholic guilt!
There was one time it was brought up in my high school youth group.
Ah, the youth group. Hot bed of hormones, bad ideas, and worse information from "adult" supervision. Church youth gorups are even worse, if my history is any indication.
PS: Dungeon Grrrl... [leer] How YOU doin'? [/leer]*
[giggles] See, at least that's funny. At the very least, it wouldn't be a point against you at a game table. Especially if you waggled your eyebrows as you said it, or have a good Joey impression.
I don't mind forward. forward is at least honest. Any other girls here ever actually met Ed Greenwood?
That's awesome! Girls Only Pajama RPG party at GenCon! :D
Oh gosh I wish! Since it moved I just can't make the trip. But please, put one together for the grrls who can make it! It'll be gaming legend in a matter of days.
Go for it, dude. Her avatar's totally hot. I mean, people look like their avatars right?
Right?
Well.... I don't normally wear that much, and my tiara's smaller....
** spoiler omitted **Uh-huh. Sure. Yeah. Right. Yep. Nothin' to see here.
Oddly enough, if one were to reverse hair and skin color on my avatar and un-pointify the ears, it would look a lot like me. Odd...
Apparently you have some hardcore muttonchops then eh?
Hmm...I'm not even quite sure what my avatar is....?
That's awesome! Girls Only Pajama RPG party at GenCon! :DOh gosh I wish! Since it moved I just can't make the trip. But please, put one together for the grrls who can make it! It'll be gaming legend in a matter of days.
Go for it, dude. Her avatar's totally hot. I mean, people look like their avatars right?
Right?Well.... I don't normally wear that much, and my tiara's smaller....
Dungeon Grrrl, should that last part be true...I imagine your games would go...
*stare* Uh...guys...its your turn...
*stare*
*stare* (I.e. this would be the time to pick their pockets as they drool.)
Hmm...funnier mental image than when written, but I'll leave it in just the same. As for the rest of everything above, James, Cosmo, Lilith, you guys are awesome. Welcome to the boards Dungeon Grrrl. And if you've never seen the invite, I'm suprised if Lilith hasn't brought it up yet with a new poster...
Paizo Chat Right here
Egad! I wrote an impassioned treatise about the prevalence of Christian gamers, and the machine lost it! Since I don't have time to recreate my previous epic, I'll summarize:
1.) Christians are folks, just like anyone else. Some are good at being Christians, most are not. (I'm generally not.)
2.) There are a lot of Christian gamers out there. Some of us were fortunate enough to have church leaders who said, "God knows when you are playing a game; don't worry about it." Somehow, the Christians who had the opposite view seem to have claimed the "D&D is bad" viewpoint is offical Christian doctrine.
3.) D&D can be a bad influence; so can TV, books, comics, music, friends, plays, dancing, and narrow-minded fools that claim to be religious leaders. It all boils down to what you accept as truth: Use discretion. If you feed yourself crap, you'll eventually regret it.
"God knows when you are playing a game; don't worry about it."
Thanks for this. Reminds me of one of my favorite quotes from Plato: "Good people do not need laws to tell them to act responsibly, while bad people will find a way around the laws."
"Good people do not need laws to tell them to act responsibly, while bad people will find a way around the laws."
Thank you for that interesting bit of knowledge, mwbeeler. I think I'll take advantage of it.
She okay? sometimes that stuff runs deeper than you mgiht think
She is now.
A lot of the mess got pulled up a few years ago when she broke up with her Fiancé (they are still friends). Grad school, stress, and family problems are not a good combination. She has worked through a lot of self doubt and is doing a lot better. She has even starting to focus back on her music and getting a few breaks locally.
The downside is she is likely to drop out of gaming for awhile. But, then again, I was the one who told her I would hit her with a newspaper if she did not focus on her music.
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"Good people do not need laws to tell them to act responsibly, while bad people will find a way around the laws."
Guns don't kill people, people kill people.
I've often seen the above two statements used in conjunction with each other, and I completley agree. Dungeons and Dragons doesn't kill people, people kill people.
Guns don't kill people, people kill people.
careful about saying that. turns out, it don't take much to start an argument. For example, we've got a bumper sticker that said, 'Turns out, guns do kill people. So, if I wanted, I could demand that we have a fistfight to settle it, and I'd cheat and cast necromantic spells, and you'd...
...squeak, and we wouldn't resolve a thing. So let's just not argue, and pretend neither of us really said anything.'Cause we all know I'm right.