I know it’s not the 80’s any more, and we should be past this. We should but life doesn’t work that way, so has anyone had to still deal with crap? I’ve thought we were beyond this, but I’ve had a few experiences with it myself.
1st. In high school which was not that long ago, I’m in my early 20’s, I was setting in biology class reading a D&D PHB (yeah probably should have been paying attention), and the teachers takes my book flips though it then tells me in a loud voice that I’m worshiping the Devil! I demand my book back, and she refuses then tells me to go to the office and explain myself! The principle gives me detention for reading in class, and then he called my parents to see if they were ok with my devil worship…He did make the teacher give me my book back.
I guess nothing bad happened besides some people saying I worshiped the devil (I was a cool kid oddly enough so most people just laughed at this). My parents were pissed at me that they got called by the school. They were kind of hands off parents. And the teacher rode my ass the whole year and graded me harshly.
2nd. My wife’s then girl friend’s parents basically treated me like crap over my D&D playing, which they thought was a video game. They forbid her from dating me until I could “get my life right with God” Ok I sucked up the crap and even attended church with them a few times just to make nice. Well needless to say it didn’t work. My D&D and “Godless” life came up again when we got married, and if I was going to let the kids (if we ever have them) fall into this web of devil worshiping of a game. Yeah…
Well we’re married, her parents still hate me oh well, and I smile real big when I’m around them. Oh and she plays to HEHE!!! Yes I converted her to devil worship…
3rd. My parents tend to say “do you still play that geeky kids game that had something to do with devil worship?” Me: Yeah mom yeah dad Them: Aren’t you too old for that? Me: No mom No dad Them: You aren’t doing anything satanic? Me: No mom No dad ok bye see you at Christmas time
So I guess all in all I haven’t had to deal with huge problems, but really this crap is still around.
Has anybody else dealt with D&D ignorance?
Fizz
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Well I am 28 and until last year at christmas my mother absolutely refused to buy me anything D&D or even fantasy related. Since it was all devil worshiping. I am not sure how I convinced her otherwise since my explanation of both has never changed. Though I did point out a specific chapter in one of my books that dealt with destroying some evil cult or something. Maybe that did it.
On the other hand her preacher did once say that they were going to have a crusade just like they did in medieval times. To which I regrettably stated rather loudly, "Yeah, rape, murder, and pillage. Sounds like a great time."
Needless to say she beat the hell out of me for that one and I was 16 or 17 at the time.
Still all in all I haven't ran into too many instances of trouble over it.
OHHHH! Almost forgot there was one other time I almost got in trouble. When I was in the Marines we had room inspections one day and most of my D&D stuff was sitting out on my desk. The Lieutenant inspecting called over my Gunnery Sgt. and asked him about my "satanic" ways. TO which he calmly replied, "I believe he still has freedom of religion." and walked off.
:D good times!!
Yep, I'm right there with ya, Fizzban
I'm the son of a minister, got introduced to D&D by another PK (that's "Preacher's Kid", what we call ourselves). We were over at his house for an all-city pastor's get together, he had the old Blue basic book and some graph paper with his own dungeon on it, and I thought it was the coolest thing ever. Talked to my folks about it, they seemed alright with it, and they were going to buy it for me for my birthday in a couple of weeks.
Then somehow word gets to them through my hand-waving, holy-roller, holier-than-thou relatives that D&D is "Of The Devil". Well, it all went to hell in a handbasket from there. Looking back, I'm pretty sure now that my father was stuck between a rock and a hard place. If his kid was known as "one of those devil worshipers", it would have made his life even that more hard. Being a minister - a real one, not one of these fake money-grubbing TV jerks or pedophile priests - is a hard life; I know, I lived through it. Even though I'm pretty sure they trusted me, I realize now that they couldn't let me play D&D because some idiots would use that to make life hell for my father. So I was banned from it.
Of course that didn't stop me, and even after they found and threw away my hidden stash of D&D books, I managed to keep on playing it with my friends in secret. Arguments, fights, round and round we went through my teen years. It was a nightmare I don't want to relive. So I understand, Fizzban, I have had to live through that "devil-worship" crap first hand.
Funny thing is now that I'm almost 40, I'm still a Christian, still go to church on Sundays, I'm a firm believer and an am raising my kids up in my faith. Even though I disagreed with him years ago regarding D&D, my father is my hero. And every Wednesday night, me, my wife and seven other friends get together and step out of our mundane lives and weave a tale of adventure, excitement, action and high fantasy where good triumphs over evil. We play Dungeons and Dragons.
Jack Chick, my holy-roller relatives, and anyone else who can't discern the difference between a game and real life, can just kiss my Dungeon Master'ing...well, you know.
I've had no problems but then I'm from Toronto which really as a heaven of lefty liberalism. That said there was historically a 'geek' factor and some of the players and DMs I know hide their gaming in order to make sure they don't seem to geeky or fail to get the girls or some such. Personally I flaunt it, showing the really cool maps and my dungeon creations to anyone who even vaguely shows interest (say by looking at a map thats clearly spread out on a table etc.) My experience has been that there are a phenomenal number of people around that either have played in the past and would actually like to play again around, or people have heard of it and would like to give it a try etc. I have now turned away two groups of players who would like to have a DM and at least 10 potential players.
In the last 18 months I have turned down at least 20 people and yet I have talked with a friend who would like to DM for a group if only he could find players. My advice was - 'advertise' more. There are just so many players or potential players out there but you miss them if your busy worrying so much about what everyone else will think that your D&D is in the closet.
Knowing who is interested in gaming can always prove useful if you need to replace players, or in my case when I finish my current stint the DM role will be handed over to another player in my regular gaming group. However I like DMing so I'll probably simply whip up another group and DM on a different day of the week from the day I play.
No arguments here...I'm also a Christian. Though I haven't had any intolerance, oddly enough, just puzzled looks and confusion. I'm a deacon in my church and a couple of friends were lamenting some famous person (can't remember who) who said they play dungeons and dragons. I said "why's that a problem?" (knowing full well) They said "Well...isn't it Satanic?" and I said with a smile, "I don't think so...and I've played it for years."
Actually this is sort of a positive story because their response was more or less "If YOU play it then...I wonder at what I've been believing about it."
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My wife's ex-husband is good at doing this to thier kids (well, my kids, too, now). I started a D&D campaign with them, and they were having a great time of it. As a matter of fact, they still do on the rare occasion we play. However, they won't ever play without convincing because Dad says it's an evil game. The worst part is, he loves to play Final Fantasy, etc, but doesn't see the hipocrisy, and this is what he teaches his kids about religion.
Raised and confirmed Catholic, though my father is Presbyterian. Spent a good deal of my youth attempting to convince people I wasn’t going to wander into the woods and jab someone with a stick in the name of Satan. Finally got tired of it and abandoned religion altogether. Nothing that many ignorant people believe can be correct.
My mother disapproved of my subscription to Dragon, and treated the magazines as if they were contaminated.
I’m aware the stigma still exists, so I don’t talk about D&D in public unless someone else brings it up first, and then only if other people who don’t play aren’t about.
some famous person (can't remember who)
Was it Vin Diesel?
Yep, growing up I got the same reaction as mentioned by some of you. My mother was very tolerant of it, but got pressured into talking me into not playing anymore (which only lasted for a few months before I started playing again).
My father, on the other hand (divorced parents), straight up wouldn't tolerate it at all, bought into all of the hype. When he found my D&D stuff (which I had saved up my money and bought), he ripped it all to shreds in front of me. Talk about impotent rage! I was 14. He could pwn me if he wanted to (and had on several occasions), but that was the closest I ever came to starting a fist fight with my father. I remember shaking with rage and it was all I could do to control myself from attacking him.
My interests changed a little bit after than and I stopped playing for a while once I hit 17 (girls were much more interesting!). About 10 years later a buddy and I started talking about D&D while at the gym and decided to get a group together.
Since then it's been a mixed reaction from people I work with, go to church with, and family members. My father still disapproves, but at 38, married, owner of my own small business, and father of a child of my own, I take perverse pleasure in flaunting my writing accomplishments in front of him - yep, D&D, Dad! Ya know, the game you banned me from playing when I was 14. Yeah, turns it out it's not Satanic. It's just a fun game to play with some friends... ya know, like I told you all those years ago.
Anyway, the more common reaction is that people think I'm a nerd for playing if they think anything at all, to be honest. So, there you go.
I started playing D&D to become a satanist, and was extremely disappointed to discover they weren't connected. ;)
I started playing D&D to become a satanist, and was extremely disappointed to discover they weren't connected. ;)
Well, you're not doing it right then. First you gotta create a character called Black Leaf, then you gotta find a DM named Ms. Frost. Once you hit 8th level, she'll teach you how to "really cast spells". Its all downhill from there.
;)
I really don't have any religious connections, but I have shaken people off with "just think of souped-up chess with back stories to the characters" type of response.
I personally can't wait till I have the opportunity to confront someone who is violently against D&D, they will get a PWNage like no other!.
I can't wait!>:-)
some famous person (can't remember who)Was it Vin Diesel?
It might have been.
I haven't run into it much, but I always mention 1) it's no more Satanic than playing Everquest/WoW (which is, surprise, based on D&D), 2) it's a social activity that teaches cultural awareness, math, reading, and problem solving, and (if they piss me off by being religious fundamentalist jerks) 3) it's statisically more likely that devoutly religious people will commit crimes such as murder, pedophilia, and rape than those who play D&D.
Then again, with SF/fantasy being more mainstream now than in the 1980's, there's less of a stigma attached. For example, if J. K. Rowling had published the Harry Potter books in the 1980's, there would have been much more outcry about "witchcraft being taught to our children," book bans, etc. Considering how much video games and Internet chat seem to be shaping society at the moment, the fact that D&D requires reading and social interaction makes it more acceptable, also.
I'm assuming that most of you suffering from the 'devil worship' crap are living in america.
Never experienced anything like that in England, but then we don't take our religion too seriously here.
How can you take it seriously? When our dominant religion, Church of England, was created because the pope would not give Henry the VIII another divorce.
I was in america a few years ago. On holiday in New England. Some american guy was talking to me while we played table football (fussball to you I think) and spotted my pentacle. He did a runner, making an excuse to leave. Prior to that point we were getting on fine.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not a devil worshipper, I just like the symbolism.
Problem is that people like to point their finger at something they don't understand and label it as a bad thing.
Allow me to apologize for general ignorance on behalf of our country (no, I'm not joking).
I probably would have asked if you were a Wican, or not cared enough to bother mentioning it, unless there wasn't anything else to talk about and the silence became uncomfortable.
I'm not a big tattoo person, but if pressed, I'd get an upside down crucifixion, as testament to my unworthiness. Unfortunately, this sort of thing would instantly mark me as a satanist to the ignorant (how many bible thumpers really know about St. Peter?).
Not to come off as anti-religious, mind you. I'm very pro-religion, I think everyone should have one. I just don't think they ought to ever get together, or talk about it. Religion should be a personal thing.
Ok, sorry, back to your regularly scheduled thread!
No arguments here...I'm also a Christian. Though I haven't had any intolerance, oddly enough, just puzzled looks and confusion. I'm a deacon in my church and a couple of friends were lamenting some famous person (can't remember who) who said they play dungeons and dragons. I said "why's that a problem?" (knowing full well) They said "Well...isn't it Satanic?" and I said with a smile, "I don't think so...and I've played it for years."
Actually this is sort of a positive story because their response was more or less "If YOU play it then...I wonder at what I've been believing about it."
Right on, man. Those are priceless moments.
Since I'm from Sweden where most of us are godless heretics I really haven't experienced this with D&D and other RPGs. This doesn't mean that we don't have a vocal moral minority that gets off on condemning things they don't understand and know nothing about. During the early 80's for example it was violence in movies that where the Root of All Evil, and a lot of classic movies with graphic violence were actually banned until about a decade ago. The latest target is internet poker, which they claim traps young people in gambling addiction even though there's no statistics supporting this claim.
The common trait for all moral minorities seem to be that they act like the preacher's wife in the Simpsons ("Will someone please think of the children?").
My gaming group back in high school had to deal with the "devil worship" problem too. I was generally left alone, something about being the school's prodigy I guess? But ever since, if anyone has given me grief about my "devil-worshipping" ways, I've had an answer for them.
I've generally told others to actually open the Player's Handbook and flip through it. Find every reference to demons, devils, and the worship of such. I've obviously missed them. After all, they know so much better than I do what's in my own books . . . .
If the ignorant twit balks, I usually ask them what's the problem. I mean, God's got their back, right? Their faith will sustain and protect them, surely?
When dealing with these people, I am always reminded of this little quote:
"The wise speak only of what they know."
-J.R.R. Tolkien's The Two Towers, Gandalf speaking to Grima Wormtongue
In America, these little issues are far too common. We're a large nation with lots of people that seek to fit into society in a variety of ways, and humans as inherently social creatures will do so with alarming regularity. Standing out is a "bad thing". So lighting up someone else must be good, right? Mysteriously, it's the religiously-inclined that like to speak of devil worship. Me, I have told such self-righteous snobs that I don't worship devils: my characters KILL them.
Sorry about the rant, but this topic hits too close to home. I don't have any problems with religion in general, only those that seek to guilt-trip you into doing something with religion. God gets to judge me, thank you very much-not anyone else (except for job performance reviews and college officials, of course).
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Luckily, I really haven't had to deal with this garbage. I really didn't start playing serioulsy until college, and my paretns never had a problem with it. I'm a Christian. I'm in the church builing every time the doors are open. I've taught bible school, preched when the preacher was sick, oversaw the Lord's table, lead prayer and singing, went door knocking, etc. I've done it all. I have no problem separating a purely fictional game from real life. When you think about it, gaming is a much more wholesome hobby than most other pasttimes young adults usually engage in (drinking, barhoping, raves, drug use, sleeping around, etc.). I have had to deal a bit with the "geeky" stigma associated with D&D. I believe that today, that is the biggest issue gamers will deal with, and even it is becoming less of a problem.
RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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i found out years later that my mom and dad 'went to the mat' as it were about my gaming taking the Elementary and Jr. High head on about my 'satanic game' By high school it was a moot point.
Good to know that my parents fought for me, even if they weren't keen on it at the time.
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I've never really had a problem with this sort of thing. (I guess I'm lucky that way.) My first DM was an ordained Methodist minister, even. I'm not Christian (or Jewish, Muslim, Hindu, Buddhist, or Satanist), but I've never really gotten any flak about that, either. It's wierd, because the town I live in is a hotbed of holier-than-thou, ultra-conservative people. Probably the most flak I took was in high school, from other students that called me things like "demon worshiper". I didn't mind, though. Heh heh.
It's never come up for me beyond a mention by my grandmother, who said it to my mother, who then convinced her that it was just a game. I grew up in the 90s and not the 80s, however, so I definitely missed the D&D hysteria. Grand Theft Auto and Doom were the games that were leading us to perdition, school shootings and outright thuggish villainy. My parents were just glad that I was hanging out with friends rather than sitting in my room playing video games. To this day, even, my mother maintains that the hobby just makes me quirky and interesting.
Growing up in the mid- late-90s in the Northeast to casual Protestant parents (that don't mind that I never go to church anymore) was pretty good to me.
I was raised in a Christian home, I graduated from a Christian high school, and I went to a Christian college. Amazingly, I have never had a serious issue with the D & D/satanism thing. I actually played D & D in class, and the teacher in charge of the study hall questioned me extensively about it (as did my parents). I also described it as no more satenic than chess, and explained that the game was only what you MADE it. That explanation (presented rationally and from an educated standpoint concerning both D & D and Christianity) seemed to appease just about everyone. Then again, I can cast Glibness at will as a spell-like ability! ;)
1ST... I’m in my early 20’s, I was setting in biology class reading a D&D PHB (yeah probably should have been paying attention), and the teachers takes my book flips though it then tells me in a loud voice that I’m worshiping the Devil!
2nd. My wife’s then girl friend’s parents basically treated me like crap over my D&D playing, which they thought was a video game. They forbid her from dating me until I could “get my life right with God” Ok I sucked up the crap and even attended church with them a few times just to make nice.
Sheesh. Where do you live? Did you go to a religious school? Otherwise, there are laws against that kind of thing. I grew up in Wisconsin, and delusional teachers were at least polite enough to whisper discretely, and in couched terms, when discussing the Devil and God. At least in my schools, they'd get their asses handed to them on a silver platter if they acted like the teacher you describe. Good thing, too.
I did have one teacher who called my parents in for a meeting to express her concern that I was reading those unwholesome books (and also not paying attention, not doing my homework, and talking to my friends in class about our D&D games or whatever). My parents' response: "We're glad that he's always got his nose in a book."
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RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16, RPG Superstar 2012 Top 16
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I had to contend with a few instances of D&D is satanic in elementary school but my parent's concern was the whole "suicide" issue. which was compounded by how I seemed to obsess over the game pulling out my books and making funny looking drawings even when my friends were not around. To him it looked obsessive (and thus scary) to me I was just preparing the next dungeon for my group.
Later when I was in high school (note: this was public school) a guy who sometimes played in our group dropped out of HS and his mother told the school it was because of the devil worshipping game and pointed them in the direction of our group. So we had to defend our hobby to the assistant principle--in fact he wanted to suspend the lot of us for playing a game off school grounds on our own time.
The whole thing was laughable and we told him that he should go ahead and suspend us. After all how would that fly with the school board? he fumed and raged a bit more until one of the guys lost all patience and told him that "Yes we play to worship satan would you like to come by next time we play it's B.Y.O.G."
"B.Y.O.G.?"
"Bring your own goat." It must have seemed so absurd at that point that he let us all leave and when the mother pushed again she was gently told that D&D was not the issue.
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I never caught any flak for playing DnD at all. I guess I was lucky.
But cripes Fizzban, that situation would tick me off to no end. Glad you're mostly handling it in stride!
My high school psychology teacher did question me a few times about it, but he seemed open about gauging whether or not it was having any real effect on me. It almost seemed odd having a psychology teacher that preached rationale yet considered the paranormal in his logic.
I started playing D&D to become a satanist, and was extremely disappointed to discover they weren't connected. ;)Well, you're not doing it right then. First you gotta create a character called Black Leaf, then you gotta find a DM named Ms. Frost. Once you hit 8th level, she'll teach you how to "really cast spells". Its all downhill from there.
;)
No no no! You can learn here! That's where your supposed to learn!
Actually, if yo go to the home page, you see a link on the truth behind the urban legends. it is very interesting.Personally, my parents never saw D&D as a satanic game, for which I am lucky. At first, though, they saw it as a little violent. It might be interesting to know that we are all Christians! Well, I'm not certain. I've always wondered about that Wiccan religion...
Once, though, when I started a D&D club, one parent called, saying that she was shocked that we were having a D&D club, blah blah blah. We noticed that she 'forgot' to give her name.
Mostly, though, I've been pretty lucky.
Growing up in rural Ireland, you'd think D&D would be pilloried, but not at all.
I was a bit disappointed when word got out (I went to a Jesuit secondary school), and my teachers were enthusiatic and saw it's benefits in terms of numeracy, literacy, comprehension and use of imagination, not to mention the range and depth of reading required. We could play games in a class rooms after school hours and put up notices on the bulliten board like any other activity. It a case of rebel gamer without a cause :)
When I hear that the hysteria hasn't died down, my inital response is- don't these zealots have bigger fish to fry? Oh, I don't know, hows about:
Poverty?
Social justice for the poor?
Education?
Stavation?
Healthcare for those who can't afford it?
Gun violence?
On a related note, I've been in the US for three years now, and am struck by the weird conflict I see here- a nation that espouses the rights of the individual and celebrates the pioneer, yet wants conformity and places a premium on The Team.
Is this a symptom of this?
Never actually had a problem with it, though my mother knew about the whole "satanic" angle somehow- Either through word of mouth or Mother Jones (and don't get me started on that thing...), but never actually prevented me from playing.
Though, if I ever had to defend it today, I would do so by explaining, calmly, that devils and demons are put into the game so that the players can crush them flat. It dosen't promote worship of devils, if anything, by placing the forces of evil in the roles of antagonists, it encourages just the opposite.
I, of course, will never go into details as to the cathartic joys of playing evil charachters (I STILL want to run a Soul Eater, or maybe Acolyte of the Skin...), nor will I ever tell anyone that worshiping evil beings is an option in the game... As anyone who thinks that D&D promotes Satanism calearly cannot tell fantasy (my charachter eats souls to survive) from reality (souls probably don't taste very good).
Never had anyone ever refer to D&D being evil or satanic. Not once since '74.
Maybe that's why I only found the ever so ludicrous Mazes and Monsters so amusing. As a kid it made me wanna LARP in the caves and go schizo so I could live in a D&D world forever(so much for it being a functional cautionary tale). I'm of a different mind these days. I have to say I'm a huge fan of indoor plumbing and could never schiz to a world without it.
Forgot to mention in my previous post on this subject that two of the players in my game are regular church goers.
They do the whole thing, singing in the choir, discussing the bible etc.
One of them even has a brother who is a minister.
And I'm the pagan of the group.
They don't try to convert me to christianity and I don't try and convert them.
We disagree on relgion, but that does not stop us gaming.
And all those devout religious types who are so worried about the immortal souls of gamers should consider how much strife religion has caused throughout history.
A lot of wars were fought because someone believed in a different god.
Perhaps the rest of the world should just leave gamers alone.
Sheesh. Where do you live? Did you go to a religious school? Otherwise, there are laws against that kind of thing. I grew up in Wisconsin, and delusional teachers were at least polite enough to whisper discretely, and in couched terms, when discussing the Devil and God. At least in my schools, they'd get their asses handed to them on a silver platter if they acted like the teacher you describe. Good thing, too.I did have one teacher who called my parents in for a meeting to express her concern that I was reading those unwholesome books (and also not paying attention, not doing my homework, and talking to my friends in class about our D&D games or whatever). My parents' response: "We're glad that he's always got his nose in a book."
No I went to good ol'crappy public school. I grew up in a small town in Tennessee like 2,500 people. It's a good meaty part of the bible beat. The three dominate denominations in my home town are Southern Baptist, Church of Christ, and Pentecostal. Don't know if anybody knows much about those groups, but...not really tolerant in my area.
My wife's parents and grandparents are the heads of the biggest Southern Baptist Church in my town. They highered the preacher, They donated hundreds of thousands to the church (they're the rich country club type), so they couldn't have they daughter corrupted by me and my D&D.
On schools my high school did a non-religious praying thing in the morning. Teachers told us we were going to hell. I was paddled several times. Also a teacher quit to stop a gay guy from being a cheerleader. Keep in mind that I'm young this isn't from the 60's this was like 2002 2003 to now.
Fizz
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What?!?!?!
I thought D&D WAS devil worship. Thats why I play!
Seriously though, the fundamentalist wing of the Christian churches takes literally the passage in the bible talking about "sorcerers" and such. The sorcerer is a class you can play, so by their logic, yeah, its satanic. Harry Potter is devil worship as well in this world view. I think they need to visit C.S. Lewis' work personally or even Stephen Lawhead's work.
I wouldn't worry about it. Wear a t-shirt like this to Thanksgiving: CLICK AT OWN RISK. or even better CLICK FOR REALLY OFFENSIVE T-SHIRT
Just had a big "on the doctor's couch" moment.
I have been envious of all the RPGers I see that proudly proclaim their love for the game. I always have feelings of embarrassment when people find out I like to game. In my mind, I have been thinking it is because of my age. It seems so obvious now where it comes from.
In the beginning D&D was promoted by the Educated and the News for the math skills, imagination used, research involved, etc.. In my junior high (what the chitlins now call middle school) a librarian set up a time after school for us to play. For our part, we were to set aside a little bit of that time to teach new people to play and answer questions they had.
One teacher asked my friends to play a session in front of one of his classes, so everyone could see how it works. I was so mad that I was sick that day and couldn't participate.
And then it all blew up. The person who became the biggest supporter of D&D equals the devil was that same librarian. No one else in my school seemed to follow with her "logic", so my friends and I all made fun of her and I thought that was that.
But really after that all I received was negative reinforcement about gaming. From teachers, my parents and many classmates. I never made the connection that it was because of D&D that changed how I felt people thought about me, but apparently my subconscious did.
So yeah I do cringe whenever I see demon and devil references but I am happy that you all fight the good fight and show people it's just a game. Because the 2nd Ed renaming of devils and demons was really lame.
I haven't experienced much anti-D&D propaganda. My mother is devoutly Christian, and at first, she was upset (which I considered uninformed) about my gaming in the 80s and 90s. The funny thing is, after she calmed down, I invited her to come watch one of our sessions. She did, and a few months later, her and Dad were playing. He played a ranger, and she played a paladin (of course), but that was a great time for me. Nothing beats superstition better than firsthand experience. :-)
Because the 2nd Ed renaming of devils and demons was really lame.
What was this famous renaming? i've heard that WotC had to rename those guys so that the religeos fanatics didn't get mad. But what did they rename it to?
The devils became baatezu, and the demons became tanar'ri. The demodands became gehreleths (I still debate which name I prefer), and daemons became yugoloths.
Because the 2nd Ed renaming of devils and demons was really lame.What was this famous renaming? i've heard that WotC had to rename those guys so that the religeos fanatics didn't get mad. But what did they rename it to?
Baatezu and Tanar'ri. While I don't care one way or the other regarding the reasons why they changed the names of demons and devils, the names stuck with me. I still prefer to use baatezu and tanar'ri to this day, not because of some PC BS reason, but because the names sound more fantasy-like than boring demon or devil. Semantics, I know. Take that as you may.
During the 1980s in South Africa, there was no seperation of church, school or state. The education system was called "Christian National Education" A gloriously inept brew of nationalism, racism and viciously bigoted fundamentalism. In order to attend school, I had to fake religion to avoid canings for my beliefs. I was introduced to D&D by my brother and it was a great release for me from the strangeness and terror of Apartheid. I started play age 8, with the red box and quickly moved on to AD&D. everything went well until I stupidly took the DMG into school with me to read it in the library. It was my regular routine to spend lunchtime in the library to avoid getting my head flushed down the toilet or otherwise humiliated for being English in an Afrikaaner town. The school had a military inspection of the boys to check for cigarettes or other contraband. These were called hair inspections. I was worried that my hair may touch my collar when pulled as it had been a while since my last haircut. Having overlength hair was two strikes on the butt with a bamboo cane and detention with lines (which were usually from Leviticus). Lo and behold, our cadet commandant upturns my bag and the DMG drops out. At first, the fascist bastard doesn't process what he is seeing, then he flips my book open with his boot and it flips open to the page with the sample spell circles on it. He turns white and picks the book up between his thumb and forefinger. "Hoyle, What is this filth?" "It is a game sir, a book sir" "This is not a game. This is from the devil." Then the poor deluded soul tears the book in half. Two days later I am taken by force into an empty classroom where a priest is waiting to exorcise me. I swear at them and run and am tackled. My punishment for running from the exorcism they set up for me was to be beaten till bloody on the behind by a sweaty afrikaner who tells me that he is hitting me for the good of my soul. I am just glad they didn't find my marijuana.
Some years later, I had my books confiscated from my boarding school dorm. I was too poor to replace them and we just played without books for a while.
When I was 22, my landlord burned a whole bunch of my books. I sent a summons to small claim court but he abused his position as a police officer and told me that he would have me busted and would find somehting to put me in prison for.
Now I just stay away from religious people, bullies and zealots. I am much happier here in Asia.
The devils became baatezu, and the demons became tanar'ri. The demodands became gehreleths (I still debate which name I prefer), and daemons became yugoloths.
Don't forget the obyriths. So technically, the renaming force of death is weakening!
During the 1980s in South Africa, there was no seperation of church, school or state. The education system was called "Christian National Education" A gloriously inept brew of nationalism, racism and viciously bigoted fundamentalism. In order to attend school, I had to fake religion to avoid canings for my beliefs. I was introduced to D&D by my brother and it was a great release for me from the strangeness and terror of Apartheid. I started play age 8, with the red box and quickly moved on to AD&D. everything went well until I stupidly took the DMG into school with me to read it in the library. It was my regular routine to spend lunchtime in the library to avoid getting my head flushed down the toilet or otherwise humiliated for being English in an Afrikaaner town. The school had a military inspection of the boys to check for cigarettes or other contraband. These were called hair inspections. I was worried that my hair may touch my collar when pulled as it had been a while since my last haircut. Having overlength hair was two strikes on the butt with a bamboo cane and detention with lines (which were usually from Leviticus). Lo and behold, our cadet commandant upturns my bag and the DMG drops out. At first, the fascist bastard doesn't process what he is seeing, then he flips my book open with his boot and it flips open to the page with the sample spell circles on it. He turns white and picks the book up between his thumb and forefinger. "Hoyle, What is this filth?" "It is a game sir, a book sir" "This is not a game. This is from the devil." Then the poor deluded soul tears the book in half. Two days later I am taken by force into an empty classroom where a priest is waiting to exorcise me. I swear at them and run and am tackled. My punishment for running from the exorcism they set up for me was to be beaten till bloody on the behind by a sweaty afrikaner who tells me that he is hitting me for the good of my soul. I am just glad they didn't find my marijuana.
Some years later, I had my books confiscated from...
That is just...wrong. What did your parents think?
Well, I didn't get any of this, although my mother (who bought me my first books) always was a bit uncomfortable with it. People in Brazil just give you a weird look.
OOOHHH, better yet! We've had quite a few cases where some guys kiiled a girl, and another two killed their parents and when they were caught, started blaming The Books.
The media went crazy! Books that could make you kill! Luckily, some reporters did their job right and showed some shrinks telling that RPG isn't the antichrist...
It's some kind of fashion here: kill your parents for money, and try to get sympathy from population by blaming some book (RPG, particularly -- I'm waiting to see someone blame Harry Potter books), movie or videogame.
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I got into D&D when I was college age, so I mostly go to avoid my parents banning it from me -- which they would have. They still don't like it that I play, but oh well. I go to church every Sunday and am very active in the church with teaching among other things.
I really don't get into discussions about D&D much with a lot of people at church -- it just isn't worth it to get into a discussion about it -- much easier to simply avoid talking about it. The truth is (as near as I can tell) that most people will admit that they don't know anything about it. There are still the old-timers that still feel strongly about it based on little to no information, but they largely seem to be going away.
People who know me that might have an issue with it don't bring it up around me. Not sure why.
On the rare occasion that I still find someone that has issues with it, I try and probe to find out what the problems are. Most of the time it ends up being either fear of the unknown or half-assed misinformation. Simply bringing up that Tolkien and C.S. Lewis were both Christian and that their stories are full of Christian allegories often times takes their arguments down a few notches.
Well, I didn't get any of this, although my mother (who bought me my first books) always was a bit uncomfortable with it. People in Brazil just give you a weird look.
OOOHHH, better yet! We've had quite a few cases where some guys kiiled a girl, and another two killed their parents and when they were caught, started blaming The Books.
The media went crazy! Books that could make you kill! Luckily, some reporters did their job right and showed some shrinks telling that RPG isn't the antichrist...
It's some kind of fashion here: kill your parents for money, and try to get sympathy from population by blaming some book (RPG, particularly -- I'm waiting to see someone blame Harry Potter books), movie or videogame.
I know. Honestly, I don't get it. I'm glad that some reporters did their job morally, but sadly, few people listened to them.
Ignorant Guy: D&D is a horrible thing that causes suicide! Oh no! you'd better stop! gosh, good thing we found out sooner! Also, D&D causes homicide! *Gasp* Homicide? Wow! And D&D causes Satanism! I even looked in some of those books! and they mentioned gods other than God! Wow, really? They made up gods? *Scream* That's blasphemy! And there are evil monsters in there! And gods! and there are also demons and devils!Other Guy: Calm down! Go on to this site, see? It'll explain how D&D isn't that bad! Wouldn't that be--
Ignorant Guy: What?! No! That'll corrupt me and make God stop protecting me! AAAAAAAH! Help! this man is trying to turn me to the side of EVIL!!!
Okay, that might be overdoing it. I'm not saying that all Christians are bad, but some of them have acted that way. Like thisguy. guy and look herefor some more info. Also, this site and this site are very interesting. I'm not joking. no offense, Christians.
Ah HEM!!! This is Dungeons and Dragons! We worship Dragons and Dungeons, not Demons and Devils.