How did you guys handle the experience for the character who received the smoking eye template?
Suppose the character is right at 12th and has 66,000 xp. When they gain the template, they are effectively 13th. Do they need to get all the way to 91,000 xp to get their next level? That seems a little extreme, and I'm not sure if it is fair.
The more I think about this, the more confused I get; I don't think the rules address this situation well. I don't have a problem adjudicating a method, but I would like to hear what others have done.
This may not be the way the rules meant this to work, but how I did it is to say that the template basically adds one character level of Template. So, the 12th level character becomes a 13th level character instantly, with 12 levels of, say, fighter and one level of Smoking Eye. The character then earns experience as a 13th level character and needs to earn 13,000 xp to go up a level.
If the character doesn't like it, he/she should go find a vampire and get smacked to burn the level off.
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Suppose the character is right at 12th and has 66,000 xp. When they gain the template, they are effectively 13th. Do they need to get all the way to 91,000 xp to get their next level? That seems a little extreme, and I'm not sure if it is fair.
But it is the rules as written. Just like any level-adjusted creature.
Take a starting (level 1) character with 0xp, and LA +1; he counts as second level, so needs to acquire 3000xp to gain his second character level.It only sounds harsh because of the level they're at, but really, an extra 13,000xp is a minor speedbump, after which they pay a mere 1000xp surcharge each level, which should be neither here nor there.
Whether it seems a good trade really depends on the PC's class. Warrior-types don't get much beyond an attack bonus (which they probably don't need), and the ability to ignore Protection from Good, Unholy Blight, etc. But a spellcaster...Holy Heck! +1 caster level?
Give it here!
I'd have had it, too, if I hadn't been a pair of smoking boots at the time. The rest of my party managed to ignore my obvious efforts to plonk our 'ally' in the flames, and killed him stone dead, the jackasses!
So it was up to our Shining Blade to take a gamble, which paid off (I maintain he only jumped in because he knew he was living on borrowed time, with his illegal feats...grumble...)
It only sounds harsh because of the level they're at, but really, an extra 13,000xp is a minor speedbump, after which they pay a mere 1000xp surcharge each level, which should be neither here nor there.
Well, it's more than just a 1000xp surcharge each level.
The Smoking Eye template gives the character a +1 Level Adjustment. Which means that the Effective Character Level bumps up by one.
The way my group uses this (which as I reread the rules just now may not be exactly right), means that the templated character earns XP at a slower rate than the non-templated characters (he earns them at the rate of a character one level higher). But we still trigger a new level at the same XP threshold as before.
Since he's earning XP more slowly, however, the other characters reach higher levels first. This method stabilizes with the templated character one level behind everyone else, which is what you want.
Well, it's more than just a 1000xp surcharge each level.The Smoking Eye template gives the character a +1 Level Adjustment. Which means that the Effective Character Level bumps up by one.
The way my group uses this (which as I reread the rules just now may not be exactly right), means that the templated character earns XP at a slower rate than the non-templated characters (he earns them at the rate of a character one level higher). But we still trigger a new level at the same XP threshold as before.
Since he's earning XP more slowly, however, the other characters reach higher levels first. This method stabilizes with the templated character one level behind everyone else, which is what you want.
See, that is how I had originally interpreted it. In general, a character needs (current level) x 1000 to get their next level. So, I thought a 12th level character who received the template would need 13,000 to get their next level, but all other 12th level characters only need 12,000. They would still level slower, but not as slow. And, as Steven pointed out, it would eventually stabilize to one level behind.
By the rules, I suppose Tycho is right. It does bring the templated character in line with the rest of the party after the rest gain 12K xp. But then do they actually have enough xp to be 12th level anymore? (That would be a cruel DM to remove a level...)
Anyways, maybe the character with the template should be a little better then the rest of the party. It's not a game-breaking difference and they did agree to sacrifice themselves.
How did you guys handle the experience for the character who received the smoking eye template?
Suppose the character is right at 12th and has 66,000 xp. When they gain the template, they are effectively 13th. Do they need to get all the way to 91,000 xp to get their next level? That seems a little extreme, and I'm not sure if it is fair.
that's exactly how I handled it too. Suppose you have 2 characters, both fighters, both 11th level. Now one gets the smoking eye template, effectively adding a level to the character (i mean, save bonus, bab and a load of extra stuff. pretty good, right?). because that charcter als effectively becomes a 12th level character, he gains a feat and an ability score increase. when this character reaches 66000 xp, nothing happens, because he allready gained all the benefits from his new class. The other fighter advances further and gains another level fighter, gaining more or less the same benefits. Both now need the same amount of xp to reach 13th level (78000 iirc). By the time the 2nd fighter reaches level 12, both are on par again.
that's exactly how I handled it too. Suppose you have 2 characters, both fighters, both 11th level. Now one gets the smoking eye template, effectively adding a level to the character (i mean, save bonus, bab and a load of extra stuff. pretty good, right?). because that charcter als effectively becomes a 12th level character, he gains a feat and an ability score increase. when this character reaches 66000 xp, nothing happens, because he allready gained all the benefits from his new class. The other fighter advances further and gains another level fighter, gaining more or less the same benefits. Both now need the same amount of xp to reach 13th level (78000 iirc). By the time the 2nd fighter reaches level 12, both are on par again.
Are you sure it works that way? I've always read it as, template levels (like, say, genasi or hound archon) don't add to saves, bab, feats or ability points unless they're specifically listed in the template description. The way I played it, adding the level of Smoking Eye template raised the character level by 1 as far as experience earning and progression is concerned, and it added the things specifically listed in the Smoking Eye template, and that's it. The character didn't make a level as a fighter, so what chart would you use to determine which saves improve?
By modifying the Smoking Eye slightly, you could turn it into a prestige class instead of just a template. The character immediately gains one level in Lord of Occipitus.
I agree with Colin, I don't think it works like that.
Now, a single level in Lord of Occipitus might work. The template is about like a level for fighters, wizards and clerics. But a monk (like IMC) or any other character that gains a lot of special abilities at level up actually loses out.
Or you could just "give" them the xp necessary to make them a 13th level character when they get the template (but not allow them to take a level in their current class). Again, over time it will stabilize and the math this way is a lot easier.
I also think there is an experience chart for characters with ECL in one of the Forgotten Realms book. Maybe the players guide?
Are you sure it works that way? I've always read it as, template levels (like, say, genasi or hound archon) don't add to saves, bab, feats or ability points unless they're specifically listed in the template description. The way I played it, adding the level of Smoking Eye template raised the character level by 1 as far as experience earning and progression is concerned, and it added the things specifically listed in the Smoking Eye template, and that's it. The character didn't make a level as a fighter, so what chart would you use to determine which saves improve?
sorry Colin, I wasn't specific enough. What I meant to say was the INSIGHT BONUS to attacks and saves are *LIKE* gaining another level. I know this doesn't hold true in combination with certain magic items or other effects that grant insight bonusses, but in general it does.
In other words, I wouldn't use a chart to determine save, ba and other improvements. I would use table 3-2 in the PHB to determine feats, ability increases and other adjustments that depend on character level, rather than class level though.
Basically, we're both saying the same thing. Difference is, I use more words to add to the confusion. Everyone: ignore the slaad. it's just spewing gibberish most of the time anyway.
<snip> But a spellcaster...Holy Heck! +1 caster level? Give it here!
I'd have had it, too, if I hadn't been a pair of smoking boots at the time. The rest of my party managed to ignore my obvious efforts to plonk our 'ally' in the flames, and killed him stone dead, the jackasses!
So it was up to our Shining Blade to take a gamble, which paid off (I maintain he only jumped in because he knew he was living on borrowed time, with his illegal feats...grumble...)
I see I must review and correct the mis-thought meandering surmises of our errant wizard. The divine inspiration granted me by the mightiest lord of righteousness made it clear that the traitorous 'ally' need not be used as a pawn and instead suffer the ignoble end such a coward deserved. That same heavenly insight guided me to the correct course of action afterwards.
And...
For the record it was only one illegal feat, and it wasn't illegal til errata caught it, which I missed.
But +1 caster level, +1 everything, and the rest of the bonuses... Hell Yeah!
I mean, Heavens Above! *Ahem*
How did you guys handle the experience for the character who received the smoking eye template?
Suppose the character is right at 12th and has 66,000 xp. When they gain the template, they are effectively 13th. Do they need to get all the way to 91,000 xp to get their next level? That seems a little extreme, and I'm not sure if it is fair.
The more I think about this, the more confused I get; I don't think the rules address this situation well. I don't have a problem adjudicating a method, but I would like to hear what others have done.
I asked the templated PCs (I have two of them) if they wanted to keep the LA. They said no so I used Unearthed Arcana optional rule. Pay a 3000 XP penalty and keep your LA +0 character. Players were happy with this solution as they keep their XP progression intact and the nice boni of the template. Best of both worlds.
Hope this helps.
Bran.