Alrighty, I just got done reading James Wyatt's article for dungeon 151 "Entitled Episode 1, its never to early". For those of you who haven't read it, as a primer for 4th edition he describes the process of creating a new starting town, in his case a hamlet called Greenbriar.
Part of his creative process is:
"Besides creating room for adventure, the notion of points of light gives me an excuse to bring a bunch of different races together in what might otherwise be a stereotypical human farming village. As a starting point, I'm going to flip through the races chapter of the Player's Handbook so that, no matter what race a player chooses for his character, there will be some story ideas in his background."
Keep that bold statement in mind as you read his article.
HE then goes through each race listed in thh new PHB and decided how they will fit into his townshio and surrounding area. Humans, Elves, Dwarves, Halflings, and Eladrin are specifically mentioned. No mention of Gnomes of Half-elves (though I assume they are implied in a town where elves and humans freely mix).
He then goes on to talk about Tieflings.
"I like the tiefling race presented in the new Player's Handbook, but I don't see them fitting in to Greenbrier. I think I'll tell my players not to make a tiefling right out of the gate -- as the campaign goes on, perhaps they'll have the opportunity to bring in a tiefling to replace a dead character, once they've moved into more cosmopolitan areas."
I don't know about you, but in an artcile for the NEW WoTC Dungeon magazine, previewing 4th edition, it doesn't inspire much confidence in the 4th edition racial history for Tieflings, if one of thier developers cannot easily fit them into his brand spanking new introductory 4th edition town.
Great, so they don't fit well into small towns, or remote regions. WHo knows? WE don't have thier flavor text yet, so we can't really figure out WHY they didnt fit his town, just that they don't and are better suited to large metroplitan areas (presumably a mixing-pot approach).
Ummm isn't the whole selling point of the new edition's setting "points of light in the darkness" in other words, small isolated pockets of civilization isolated in the wilds? Didn't he state right at the beginning of the article, that no matter what race the party chooses they should be able to make them fit? Kind of sucks for his gaming group when they show up to sit at the table with thier new shiny 4th edition books, and James Wyatt says "Ummm sorry you can't play the tiefling. I know they look cool and all, and thats why we put them in, but I couln't figure out how to rationalize them in my town. You'll have to play somethinig else until you leave the area, die, and get to make a new character. Maybee THEN i'll be able to figure out a reason for you to play them".
-----The Osquip----
P.S. Here's the link to the article
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/dudc/20071019
Here's the article for those who can't access the WoTC site.
You don't have to wait until May to start planning your first 4th Edition campaign. The launch of a new edition is a great time to imagine what new directions you might want to explore, and figure out what new adventures and new worlds might lie before you. Keep playing for now, but it's never too early to have your eye on what you might be playing when May rolls around.
That's what this column is all about. For the next few months, I'll be sharing my thoughts about creating a new campaign for 4th Edition, and I'll actually sketch out my own campaign as I go. I invite you to follow along with me to collect what insights we can find about the job of world-building and campaign design.
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Room to Adventure
Imagine a world shrouded in darkness -- vast stretches of wilderness untouched by the civilizing hands of humans and dwarves, dotted with crumbling ruins left by the ancient empire of the tieflings or the last great elf kingdom.
Scattered far and wide amid that darkness, like faint stars in the night sky, are the enclaves of civilization; here and there one finds a great city-state or strong barony, but mostly you encounter frontier towns or close-knit villages of farmers and artisans who cling close together for protection against the dark.
Your players' characters will start in one of those points of light.
This idea of the world as a vast sea of darkness, with only feeble, flickering points of light keeping civilization alive, is a core idea of 4th Edition D&D. It's not intended to turn every campaign into a horror game or something laden with dark angst. Instead, it gives space for adventure.
It's tempting for me to design a campaign setting as a world, or at least a continent, filling in every square mile with swamps and forests and nations divided by borders. And sure, I can look at a map like that and say monsters are in the swamp and elves in the forest, and this nation doesn't get along with that nation. That's the sort of thing I've been doing since I was in middle school, inspired by the World of Greyhawk and early Forgotten Realms products. TSR put out hefty campaign worlds -- just as Wizards of the Coast still does -- and my natural inclination was to develop my worlds in as much rich detail.
The trick is, when you work with such a large scale, all of those details are far away from the PCs.
If I were to drop the PCs down right on one of those borders where two nations are simmering at the edge of all-out war, there'd be room for adventure there. That could be a pretty cool campaign. Maybe a city is right on the border. Maybe its people don't really consider themselves members of either nation, and they resent being fought over, but there are also plenty of immigrants from both nations living within its walls. That could be a lot of fun.
But that only works because I've switched from the big map to a very small spot on it. Once I start running that campaign, the forest with the elves and the swamp with the monsters don't matter, at least not until the campaign grows and expands to include them. In the short term, I'm better off putting time into fleshing out the city on the border and the adventure possibilities there, rather than putting another thought into what lies half a continent away.
When you start with the small view, you're creating space for adventure even on that micro level. It's not just about the monsters that live in the swamp a hundred miles distant, it's about the dangers that threaten you where you live. In 4th Edition, the danger is large and the safe zones are small. Adventure is never far away.
Start Small!
Side Note: Greenbrier is a name that popped into my head maybe a year ago, and I jotted it down. Now I finally have a chance to use it! That's a useful habit to get into: When a cool idea comes to mind, write it down someplace where you'll be able to find it when it matters.
Greenbrier is one of those tiny points of light amid the surrounding darkness, but it's more like a flickering candle than a burning beacon. As the darkness grows, the little village draws people from the surrounding area to its sheltering walls, offering what little promise of safety might come from numbers and the fragile wooden palisades surrounding the center of town.
The starting place of your campaign might be the place the characters grew up. It might be a city that has attracted them from all the surrounding countryside. Or it might be the evil baron's castle where each of them, hailing from across the barony, is locked up in the dungeon at the start of the campaign, throwing them right into the midst of the adventure. Whatever you choose, the key thing is that it provides a common starting location for the characters -- a place they have all gathered, met, and decided to put their lives in each other's hands.
For my campaign, I want the players to have the sense that they've known each other for a long time and have some past connections. For that reason, I'm going with the first option: the place all the characters grew up. I'll call it the village of Greenbrier.
Space for Races
Besides creating room for adventure, the notion of points of light gives me an excuse to bring a bunch of different races together in what might otherwise be a stereotypical human farming village. As a starting point, I'm going to flip through the races chapter of the Player's Handbook so that, no matter what race a player chooses for his character, there will be some story ideas in his background.
The populace is mostly human. The Player's Handbook suggests that the last powerful empire before the fall of the present darkness was a human one, and I have no reason yet to change that. I'll make a lot of settlements human-dominated, though none of them will be human-only. The humans of Greenbrier are mostly farmers, which means that the lands of the village spread far out from the palisades. So some residents of the village don't have the protection of the walls -- those farms are vulnerable to attack. That's useful for providing adventure hooks.
I don't want to stick elves off in some distant forest. Let's say there was such a forest where the elves lived, but some enemy burned the forest down several years ago -- long enough ago to explain any half-elves in town. The elves moved into the smaller, tame forests closer to Greenbrier, and their camps and roving bands are as much a part of the village as the scattered farmsteads. I don't know yet who burned the forest down. I'll come back to that.
Eladrins are a new race in the Player's Handbook. They're akin to the elves, but they more often make their homes in the Feywild. I'm not positive what I want to do with them yet. My placeholder idea is that the forest where the elves lived was a "thin place" where passage between the world and the Feywild was easy, and an eladrin town stood near the elven community. The Feywild is unharmed, but some of the eladrins lived among the elves and have relocated with the elves.
Hmmm... I'm not sure I like that. Maybe the Feywild isn't unharmed. I could say that whatever enemy burned the forest also invaded the Feywild and drove the eladrins out. Or maybe that enemy came from the Feywild, driving the eladrins into the world before them. I'll come back to that when I'm ready to give more thought to the nature of this enemy. Some dwarf merchants and artisans are settled in the village, and others come through in caravans from time to time. Dwarf caravans link Greenbrier to the big city and a few other nearby towns. Caravans on the roads are another easy target for bandits and monsters -- more adventure hooks!
A group of halflings, like the elves, has moved in close to Greenbrier in response to danger -- some threat up the river drove them to move. They live on a raft of small boats lashed together, ready to pick up and float away if danger draws too near.
I like the tiefling race presented in the new Player's Handbook, but I don't see them fitting in to Greenbrier. I think I'll tell my players not to make a tiefling right out of the gate -- as the campaign goes on, perhaps they'll have the opportunity to bring in a tiefling to replace a dead character, once they've moved into more cosmopolitan areas.
Humans, elves, eladrins, dwarves, and halflings make Greenbrier a fine melting pot. But it needs one more ingredient race-wise. What about shifters? They're my favorite race from the Eberron setting, and I want to use them in my game. They're not in the Player's Handbook, but they are in the Monster Manual, so my players could make shifter characters if they want to. I'm going to say that these shifters used to wander the plains where Greenbrier is now, and in the early days of the village there was a lot of conflict between the shifters and the humans with their expanding farms. At this point, some shifters still live in the wild, but they're evil. The ones in the village have been pretty well assimilated.
All I've done so far is to flip through the Races chapter of the Player's Handbook and think about the role I want each race to play in my new campaign. Shifters aren't in there and tieflings are, but I'm using a little creative freedom to put in a race I like and leave one out that's not working for me just now.
That simple start sparked a lot of story ideas, and I'm getting a pretty clear idea of the village in my mind. The plight of the elves emphasizes the danger of the world beyond this little point of light, but I haven't decided yet what force of evil destroyed their home.
Heart of the Village
I don't really need a map of Greenbrier -- the simple idea of a village grown up around a crossroads will do fine for now. A wooden palisade stands around the center of town, offering feeble protection against the encroaching wild.
There's a common house in the middle of town -- it serves as the classic D&D tavern, sure, but it's also where the villagers gather for meetings to handle the sorts of things a town council would handle in a larger settlement.
The temple is the other main gathering place, where people come together to celebrate and mourn the many passages of life. I'll need to give some thought to the temple and the religious life of the village.
Turning to another chapter in the Player's Handbook, I run down the list of gods. I don't get very far before Bahamut's portfolio jumps out at me: He's the god of justice, protection, and honor. These people fear the encroaching darkness, so it seems natural to me that they would pray to Bahamut for protection. I'll say that Bahamut's altar occupies center stage, as it were, in the temple.
That needn't be the end of it, though. In any polytheistic religion, people offer prayers and make sacrifices to different gods for different occasions. As the sun god, Pelor is an important god of agriculture. He'll get a shrine in one wing of the temple. In better days, he was more important than Bahamut in Greenbrier. In fact, there might still be townsfolk who resent the priests of Bahamut for usurping Pelor's place in the center of the temple.
That story has some interesting possibilities -- but I'm not sure where I'm going with it just yet. It might be a seed I plant that doesn't flower until later in the campaign -- maybe much later.
Bahamut is often closely associated with Moradin and Kord -- they say that the three gods share an Astral Dominion, called Mount Celestia. So those gods will also have shrines within the temple. That ought to be enough for now -- four important deities, with some room for stories in the relationships among their most devoted followers.
Drawing the First Circle
From the starting point of the village, I need to fill in a circle around it -- just enough to give me and my players about as much knowledge of the surrounding world as the characters and the other people in town would have. These aren't world travelers -- they know their village, the road that links it to other towns, the river the halflings came down, and the burned forest. And that's all I need to know right now.
So I sketch out a map with Greenbrier at the center. I've said it's a crossroads, so I'll give some thought to what lies down at least three roads.
The big city appears on the map as an arrow pointing north and labeled "to Silverymoon." I've stolen the name from the Forgotten Realms, and later on when the PCs find their way there, I might steal more than just the name. I like Silverymoon as a good example of a city situated in the midst of dangerous wilderness.
The southern branch of the road points "to Tower Watch." That's the next nearest town. Its name (pulled out of the air) suggests that it might have been built in or near an ancient ruin with a prominent tower, either crumbling or still standing, mysterious and unexplored.
Oh, I like that. I think my PCs will explore the tower of Tower Watch before too long.
The halflings live on a river. I don't know yet what lies upriver to the northwest (except whatever made the halflings move) or where the river flows -- presumably there's a big lake or an ocean down that way somewhere, to the southeast. That sparks an image of Lake Town from The Hobbit, which might be another cool thing to steal. So the third branch of the road runs along the river, with an arrow pointing to Lake Town.
The last touch on the map is an ancient road running off to the west, branching away from the river. The bricks laid down to mark its course in centuries past are broken and worn, choked with grass and weeds. It, too, runs off the edge of the map, with an arrow pointing "to Harrows Pass." Why? Because my son came up with that name one day and I really liked it.
And there's my campaign setting.
No, not really. But it's the start of it. It's where my players will have their first experience of 4th Edition -- their first adventures as novice characters just beginning their heroic journeys. And it hints at what lies beyond: Tower Watch, Lake Town, Harrows Pass, the burned forest, Silverymoon.
The only thing it lacks is a dungeon.
Greenbrier Chasm
The frightened little village of Greenbrier needs a dungeon -- it needs space right nearby where player characters can answer the call to become heroes. The darkness encroaches, and heroes must push it back.
So right at the edge of the burned forest (which I should probably name at some point), a chasm named after the village opens up. I imagine Greenbrier Chasm as a deep cleft in the ground, choked with the prickly weeds that gave the village its name when settlers first cleared them away to make room for their farms.
Greenbrier Chasm opened up when the forest burned. I still don't know why, but that means it's a relatively recent arrival on the scene -- the latest evidence that danger and evil are closing in on the little village.
And when Greenbrier Chasm opened up, it revealed a dungeon -- the long-buried ruins of an ancient city or stronghold. By scrambling down through the briers to the bottom of the chasm, characters can gain access to these ruins and search them for treasures. Note for future reference: There might be a deeper point in the chasm that leads into another layer of dungeon, or some event might make the chasm deeper as the campaign progresses.
This will be the dungeon where my PCs gain their first few levels, letting their characters grow and mature into budding heroes.
Next month: The dungeons of Greenbrier Chasm!
An epic level bard couldn't inspire confidence in the new edition.
No mention of Gnomes of Half-elves (though I assume they are implied in a town where elves and humans freely mix).
Let's say there was such a forest where the elves lived, but some enemy burned the forest down several years ago -- long enough ago to explain any half-elves in town.
Tiefling in, Eladrin in, Half-Orc and Gnome out?
I don't know. I'm more troubled that the new Dungeoncraft is boring and unimaginative. Is this really the best James Wyatt and the new PHB can offer? A farming village next to a chasm with ruins within and an abandoned tower up the road? I'm not expecting China Mieville, but D&D being super-generic doesn't really demonstrate a need for a 4th Edition nor, more importantly, inspire non-players to pick up the hobby.
Yawn.
Gimme more Pathfinder any day.
Greenbrier? Like the car dealership, or the resort?
I could easily see Tieflings fitting in at the car dealership...
I don't know. I'm more troubled that the new Dungeoncraft is boring and unimaginative. Is this really the best James Wyatt and the new PHB can offer? A farming village next to a chasm with ruins within and an abandoned tower up the road? I'm not expecting China Mieville, but D&D being super-generic doesn't really demonstrate a need for a 4th Edition nor, more importantly, inspire non-players to pick up the hobby.
Yawn.
Gimme more Pathfinder any day.
True, but I'd betcha that for brand spanking new players to the game, thats the kind of town they'd create. Looks like the stuff I used to make back when I was 12 or 13.
That said, it's not very inspiring to older players or experienced players. Like most of the other new Dungeon/Dragon articles i've seen, it looks like thier normal "weekly web enhancements" with a new title. Remember its free right now, Will we get longer, more in depth articles as the magazine progresses? Probably. As a free edition though, desinged to hook us into paid subscriptions;....well they haven't convinced me yet.
And if the bar is Paizo's version of the magazines, they are going to need to work damn hard to reach that bar.
If I was a betting man, I'd put my money on dungeon/dragon becomming the new source of WoTC's weekly web enhancements and not much more. Basically little tidbits of information thier staff writers managed to pump out in thier spare time. Without writers dedicated to the magazine, I don't think they will ever achieve Paizo's quality. *Shrug* we shall wait and see.
To play devil's advocate for a minute; Wyatt is designing a small wilderness farming community. His goal is to fit the theme of this locale while using as many of the PHB races as he feels work within the bounds of this locale. Not to particularly poo-poo any small towns or anything, but a rural farming community is not likely to be the most accepting spot for a guy with cloven hooves for feet. Wyatt made a choice about who would fit into this community and who wouldn't and it works within the bounds of what he's pursuing.
If you were designing a town in Eberron that fit the same kind of rural farming community vibe, would you encourage your players to make nothing but changelings, warforged and other exotic characters? Or what about the Realms? Would you want every one of the subraces for elves, halflings and genasi represented just in case your players decided to play one? Or would you say "this is the region, these are the most common races; I would like it if you stuck to these"? That's basically what he's doing. Rather than shoehorning Tieflings in just because they're in the PHB, he allowed Shifters instead because they make a more plausible alternative. It's a Dungeoncraft article, not a 4th edition preview. How he makes his town and the environment around it is the spotlight, not the 4th edition facts that come along. It bothers me a little that gnomes and half-orcs aren't given consideration, but maybe they just don't work for the location and will be featured, if not in the PHB, in the Monster Manual like the Shifter.
I was a bit bothered by this as well, but not for the same reasons.
It bothered me that he would disallow a player race just because there wasn't a place for that culture in his starting town. And to say to a player, "Sorry but you can only play that race after your first character dies," doesn't really encourage the player to invest in his or her character very much.
I honestly have no problems with tieflings as a core race. I disagree with the notion that player races must represent the most populous races of the world (classes certainly don't, otherwise commoner would be a core PC class). If I were making a small town for my PCs to start in, it probably wouldn't have NPC tieflings either, but that wouldn't make me restrict the players. Player characters are supposed to be not quite ordinary.
I imagine that in 4e I will approach tieflings a lot like I do half-orcs now (or really just the way I do tieflings now, since they can be played albeit with a level adjustment). They are by no means common. They don't really have their own culture or society. They are basically the result of a somewhat rare interspecies mating. They aren't completely welcome in either species' societies. They are outsiders (not the planar kind, though).
So I don't think the fact that James Wyatt can't (or more accurately won't) fit tieflings into his starting town is discouraging regarding 4e. Nor do I think it is indicative of how well tieflings fit as a core race. I just think it was a poor decision.
EDIT: I mean a poor decision to restrict players from playing tieflings. I don't have any problem with saying they aren't common to the area or in the town.
Ehhh....I took it more along the lines of:
[[[[[Greetings ladies and Gents, today im going to show you how to build a new town to start your new 4th edtion campaigns in. "As a starting point, I'm going to flip through the races chapter of the Player's Handbook so that, no matter what race a player chooses for his character, there will be some story ideas in his background." Look at all this shiny new content, ooh we can put them here, and here, and here and here. Ok, all these make sense, look how easy they were to intergrate!
Hmmm...Ohhh but not these guys, we can't rationalize why there would be a commuity of them nearby. Sure they are one of the new iconics, but don't worry about them. We don't need them, just toss them over there and hope no one wants to play one.....]]]]]
I don't know, it just doesnt feel right. I understand its a world building article, but to take thier new poster child for 4th edition (judging by the cover art from the PHB and Races + classes) and just toss it aside, because "it doesnt fit" just seems wrong. It SHOULD fit! They designed a whole new racial system and expanded upon thier racial history to give them some culture and background and make them a stand alone CORE race. I was really hoping for some decent reasoning as to why there are populations of fiendish decendants living in the world, but apparently, thier reasoning isn't generic enough to fit into and introductory town!
Doesnt that strike you a little odd? I was laughing my A** off while reading his article. When the poster child doesn't fit the most basic and Iconic starting concept for your new game, you made a design error. I mean the whole design of the friggin town was so no matter what race the players chose, they could have some story background for thier character. THen its Ooops..well we will ignore these guys. huh?
True, but I'd betcha that for brand spanking new players to the game, thats the kind of town they'd create. Looks like the stuff I used to make back when I was 12 or 13.
I think you hit the nail on the head right there. This article is designed for their target audience, very young, very little experience. This would have been very useful for me 25 years ago, though not now, so I find it difficult to criticize the intent of the article (assuming my "target audience" theory is correct - if it actually is aimed at me, then yeah they blew it). The article is very similar to the first few Dungeoncraft articles (I think Monte Cook went through the creation of a primitive jungle based world).
Regarding inclusion of tieflings in a farming village - meh. Obviously you can create a storyline to make it fit if the DM wants it to. Wyatt's the DM, he gets to decide want he wants at his campaign start, races, classes, whatever. If I can decide what to disallow, why can't he?
I am concerned about the lack of half-orcs mentioned in his flip through of the player races. I've always had a soft spot for them. If I ever run a 4e campaign, halforcs will be core regardless of the PH.
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I find it somewhat odd that half-outsiders are even in the PHB for 4.0, since I would think outsiders should be rare in the world. From what I've read, the ideas of outer and elemental planes are almost going to be everyday stuff, which oversaturates the world with NPC's that it seems only adventurers should encounter. If they are in the PHB just to give players interesting options for PC's, that's fine, but you won't encounter very many in my smaller villages, or even places that you can easily reach.
I don't gather that common folk would be much interested in being around anything involving other planes. Elves and priests, maybe. But they don't just take anyone into their fold.
True, but I'd betcha that for brand spanking new players to the game, thats the kind of town they'd create. Looks like the stuff I used to make back when I was 12 or 13.I think you hit the nail on the head right there. This article is designed for their target audience, very young, very little experience. This would have been very useful for me 25 years ago, though not now, so I find it difficult to criticize the intent of the article (assuming my "target audience" theory is correct - if it actually is aimed at me, then yeah they blew it). The article is very similar to the first few Dungeoncraft articles (I think Monte Cook went through the creation of a primitive jungle based world).
I actually see this the opposite way. I agree with the target audience assessment. However, what worked for me when I was 12 or 13 is not going to work for 12 or 13 year olds today. These are children who are likely familiar with Final Fantasy, with The Lord of the Rings, with Harry Potter, with World of Warcraft, etc. It was enough in the moldy-oldy days to tell me I get to roll dice and slay dragons. Now, that's available at the click of a mouse. The limitless creativity of a buch of guys sitting around a gaming table is what still sells D&D. Hell, it's been the style of their marketing for the past year plus, and I suppose they've abandoned it as unsuccessful in favor of "8 Million Online Subscribers Can't Be Wrong!"
Judging only by what little is revealed by Wyatt in his article, I would be more inclined to show how the new game is... well... new. I'd do my best to not only find a place for Tieflings and Eladrin and Warlocks, but show how they can make for a fresh, NEW experience.
Instead, we (and presumably this new net-savvy audience they'd want to attract) get a generic, no-frills setting where he's tentative to use one of the spiff new additions to the basic game.
That simple prehistoric world of Monte Cook's is the height of creativity in comparison. As I recall, he even tried to find a way to do monotheism in D&D, flying in the face of conventional clerical arrangements.
The whole setting reminds me somewhat of ol´ Treshold of Basic D&D fame - rural village with a dungeon nearby... Just with some of the new stuff thrown in for good measure. Not very inspiring yet.
I stumbled over the "Ruins of ancient Tiefling empires" Wha...? Tieflings building empires ? Yeah, sure, right next to the well-known empires of half-elves, half-orcs and half-dragons... Just does not work for me.
Stefan
An epic level bard couldn't inspire confidence in the new edition.
Beautiful!
LOL!
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It bothered me that he would disallow a player race just because there wasn't a place for that culture in his starting town. And to say to a player, "Sorry but you can only play that race after your first character dies," doesn't really encourage the player to invest in his or her character very much.
You probably wouldn't like any of my games then...Half-orcs are forbidden.
You probably wouldn't like any of my games then...Half-orcs are forbidden.It bothered me that he would disallow a player race just because there wasn't a place for that culture in his starting town. And to say to a player, "Sorry but you can only play that race after your first character dies," doesn't really encourage the player to invest in his or her character very much.
Well, that depends on a few things. Why are they forbidden?
If it is because they don't exist in the campaign world, I'm fine with that. If it is because you don't like the mechanics of them, I'm fine with that. If it is because you don't believe that they will fit in with the standard adventuring group (my biggest complaint with drow characters), I'm fine with that.
My point was that tieflings exist in the world, but not in his starting town, so he was restricting his players from playing one. That I didn't like.
So yes, if you said "Sure, there are half-orcs in my world, but you can't play one, because Sandpoint doesn't have any for you to relate to, but maybe some day when you get to a bigger city like Magnimar, your character can die and then you can play one," then I wouldn't like your game ;)
FOR HEAVEN'S SAKE, DMs, YOU DON"T HAVE TO DO EVERYTHING YOU ARE TOLD IN A RULEBOOK OR MAGAZINE!
GUUUGUGUGUAAAAAA!
[goes crazy and kills a village]
He's just a DUDE. It's YOUR GAME!
[twitch, jerk]
FOR HEAVEN'S SAKE, DMs, YOU DON"T HAVE TO DO EVERYTHING YOU ARE TOLD IN A RULEBOOK OR MAGAZINE!
GUUUGUGUGUAAAAAA!
[goes crazy and kills a village]
He's just a DUDE. It's YOUR GAME!
[twitch, jerk]
Whew! Is that two or three villages you've taken out today? ;)
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I fail to see how this is yet another offense committed to the D&D name by 4e. Wow, this dude isn't going to let his players begin as tieflings.
Ok. So.
I prefer that kind of gaming. Keep the rare....rare.
I'd rather see that than a party of exotics, but thats just my style.
My only gripe was the mention of an ancient tiefling empire. That was a bit of a "wtf" moment for me. But, then with a little thought I could see how it could happen.
For example, take the Chelaxians from the Pathfinder world. Bump up their history of devil worship, make it quite common in their society. Real common. Wizards summoning the critters and everything. Male wizards sexing up the hawt devils, female wizards trading their bodies for more knowledge. Perhaps signs of devil blood become vogue in the noble houses.So on and so forth.
Generations later, you'd have an empire of humans with varying degrees of infernal blood in them.
Why not something similar with tieflings?
Not sure I like it, but it definitely could happen.
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You probably wouldn't like any of my games then...Half-orcs are forbidden.Well, that depends on a few things. Why are they forbidden?
Cool. As you suggested, they are not allowed because I run a pretty tolkienesque world. The stage I set for the players to weave their story assumes orcs are pretty nasty and otherwise dispised everything else with breath. Half-orcs would not be tolerated. I am also not comfortable with allowing tieflings. However, since fiendish traffic is not common, they may be slightly more viable since it is an unknown.
I fail to see how this is yet another offense committed to the D&D name by 4e.
It's not...but I am still very unhappy that tieflings beat out gnomes.
Whew! Is that two or three villages you've taken out today? ;)FOR HEAVEN'S SAKE, DMs, YOU DON"T HAVE TO DO EVERYTHING YOU ARE TOLD IN A RULEBOOK OR MAGAZINE!
GUUUGUGUGUAAAAAA!
[goes crazy and kills a village]
He's just a DUDE. It's YOUR GAME!
[twitch, jerk]
I can never remember because the red rage consumes me. But I bet it's a lot of innocents that have died with everything that has happened since the magazines were canceled.
Chief Creative Officer, Publisher
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I think the subtext there is that James named a bunch of races you're familiar with, in order to reassure people that it is still D&D, ominously avoided naming one or two more in order to spur interest and speculation, and singled out one of the brand new ones in a way that says "you don't necessarily need to use these guys if you don't want to.'
I thought the article on the whole was cool. I made the assumption on another thread that the exclusion of any mention of gnomes, ment no gnomes. That would be a bumper for myself. As a player I would be more concerned with the local surroundings, than the far of ancient empire or the arctic glacial frost giants. I've started campaigns like this when I was twelve and when I was 30+.
James gives us a hint on what races are in the PHB. He gives us a hint of the connection between the feywilde and the eladrin. He gives a hint on how the "Point of lights" philosophy affects campaign design. He also gives good advice on starting a campaign. Start local and expand out.
As far as no tieflings at the start of the campaign, that what a creative choice for himself. He did not say thier would be no tieflings at all in the campaign. But for myself, I would make them fit. If it is going to be in the PHB, some one will want to play it. Why because tieflings are pretty cool. For me, I would make an important figure in town a tielfing, a one time hero perhaps, making residents tolerant if not accepting of tieflings.
I have any problems with him limiting races to those in his starting town. It doesn't seem that outrageous of a request to having starting characters to come from the original town. And it seems natural if you are from the town that your race is one of those found at the town.
I also don't think he should have put more races near the starting town. Even the number he had presented was already little large for me. The village as written already had six different races (seven including half-elves) in significant numbers. Adding more races seems a little excessive for a farming village. I would even take out one of the races to make the town seem less crowded.
Overall I think the article was fine for what it said it was doing; advising DMs on developing a new campaign world. I don’t think he should be forced to come up with a reason why there should be a significant number of tieflings in the 4th Edition town just like he shouldn’t have to explain why there are significant numbers of half-orcs or gnomes in the town if this were put up during the start of 3.5. I would have liked if he referenced the Dungeon article about creating deities for you campaign setting since I think it would be helpful paired with this.
Ehhh....I took it more along the lines of:
I don't know, it just doesnt feel right. I understand its a world building article, but to take thier new poster child for 4th edition
I would say you took it wrong. And I wouldn't take the Teifling as the poster child for 4E.
And I wouldn't take the Teifling as the poster child for 4E.
Really? They are on 2 of the 4 known covers for 4th edition (PHB, DMG, MM and "Races and classes"). They are new, compliment a new core class (warlock), and in the developers own words "Once we saw they concept art, they looked soo cool we just had to include them". SOunds like a poster child to me.
Anyhow didn't meant to start a war with the original post. All I meant to point out is that for an article that intended to showcase how the PHB races could easily be worked into a beginning campaign, I found it friggin hysterical that he glossed over the tiefling. Especially since they are brand spanking new as far as the PHB is concerned.
Thats all. Gave me a good laugh, figured it would do the same here.
Its like If I was selling "New and Improved Cracker Jacks", with Bigger and Better prizes! Then when I open the box to show you, I point out all the popcorn and nuts, but toss out the New and improved Prize :P
I think the subtext there is that James named a bunch of races you're familiar with, in order to reassure people that it is still D&D, ominously avoided naming one or two more in order to spur interest and speculation, and singled out one of the brand new ones in a way that says "you don't necessarily need to use these guys if you don't want to.'
Damned if you do, damned if you don't.
I find it somewhat odd that half-outsiders are even in the PHB for 4.0, since I would think outsiders should be rare in the world. From what I've read, the ideas of outer and elemental planes are almost going to be everyday stuff, which oversaturates the world with NPC's that it seems only adventurers should encounter. If they are in the PHB just to give players interesting options for PC's, that's fine, but you won't encounter very many in my smaller villages, or even places that you can easily reach.
I think of lot of people see things exactly the way you are describing.
I have a slightly different take. PC races aren't necessarily the most common races, but the races most likely to take up adventuring. Take Tieflings for example, my issues with the launch aside, I like the idea if Tieflings as a core race. It makes sense to me, because in most of the game worlds I have created or played in, an individual tainted by evil outsider blood would have few options in town or anywhere else. Adventuring would be a logical choice for such individuals. Thus while Tieflings may in actuality be very rare, I could see them being fairly common as adventurers.
By the same token I don't see a need for half-elven, half-orc, half-anything else "culture." I would think such individuals would be relatively rare curiosities - outcasts that chose adventuring because they couldn't fit in. They would be of (even if they rejected it) the culture in which they were raised.
The other thing is that my game while not "adult" does allow for horrible things that I might not include if my gamers were below 15 or so, rape, extra-marital affairs, abuse - the kinds of things that could result in a Tiefling, or half something being born. My game might also allow for a Tiefling (or half something else) to be born as the result of a curse/blessing or exposure to a certain magical place or magic item. Or even allow for a "recessive" gene that pops up every few generations.
The point is an individual can come from anywhere - backstories are actually pretty easy (IMO) but people, races, cultures, those are hard to incorporate - thus why there is a Tiefling in your village is pretty simple.
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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Tieflings are like Calibans in S&S ravenloft it seems.
It's my understanding from the spined devil card that the term 'Outsider' was going away. The Spine Devil is listed as "Immortal Humanoid" or some such. So maybe Tieflings aren't 'outsiders' in the type sense anymore.
It's tempting for me to design a campaign setting as a world, or at least a continent, filling in every square mile with swamps and forests and nations divided by borders. And sure, I can look at a map like that and say monsters are in the swamp and elves in the forest, and this nation doesn't get along with that nation. That's the sort of thing I've been doing since I was in middle school, inspired by the World of Greyhawk and early Forgotten Realms products. TSR put out hefty campaign worlds -- just as Wizards of the Coast still does -- and my natural inclination was to develop my worlds in as much rich detail.
The trick is, when you work with such a large scale, all of those details are far away from the PCs.
If I were to drop the PCs down right on one of those borders where two nations are simmering at the edge of all-out war, there'd be room for adventure there. That could be a pretty cool campaign. Maybe a city is right on the border. Maybe its people don't really consider themselves members of either nation, and they resent being fought over, but there are also plenty of immigrants from both nations living within its walls. That could be a lot of fun.
But that only works because I've switched from the big map to a very small spot on it. Once I start running that campaign, the forest with the elves and the swamp with the monsters don't matter, at least not until the campaign grows and expands to include them. In the short term, I'm better off putting time into fleshing out the city on the border and the adventure possibilities there, rather than putting another thought into what lies half a continent away.
When you start with the small view, you're creating space for adventure even on that micro level. It's not just about the monsters that live in the swamp a hundred miles distant, it's about the dangers that threaten you where you live. In 4th Edition, the danger is large and the safe zones are small. Adventure is never far away.
I agree that there's nothing new here.
There have always been two methods of campaign design: start big or start small. Starting big is good for establishing a coherent world, enabling wide-ranging campaigns, and establishing an over-arching campaign plot. The problem with starting big is that there is a lot of development involved before the DM can even start designing adventures, much of which might never be used. Starting small is good for quickly establishing a setting, enabling focused character creation, and tailoring the adventure plots to the characters. The problem with starting small is that with no context for the community and adventures, the DM has to work harder to fit in new adventures and elements without invalidating earlier material or creating a mish-mash of concepts that don't make sense.
I've had the best results when I mix the two. I start big and rough out the cultures and nations and then pick one area/community to develop in detail using the rough material to provide context.
This pushing of the "points of light" as the default sounds like they want to throw out continuity and flavor and go back to the "leave town, go to the dungeon, return to town, sell loot, buy better equipment, rest, rinse/repeat" of early 1st Ed (or the MMOs). Bleh.
I think the subtext there is that James named a bunch of races you're familiar with, in order to reassure people that it is still D&D, ominously avoided naming one or two more in order to spur interest and speculation, and singled out one of the brand new ones in a way that says "you don't necessarily need to use these guys if you don't want to.'
I completely agree. I kinda like the old home cooking he was doing. Simple yet filling. As to the use of the tieflings... honestly I think he was kinda screwed either way. Use them and you get the "WTF?!?!?" screams as to what ever reasoning he gives as it becomes the precedent for all later ones (unofficial canon). Don't put them in the setting and you get the "Ha! See he can't make them make sense either!" replies.
I personally am waiting to see the way alignement plays out in 4e. And if I change to 4e (eventually) then I will probally have the 'common' people react to teiflings just like I have them react to monster PCs. With bias, scorn, fear and hesitation. Got to earn acceptance when you are scary, evil looking and most of your kind has villian stamped all over it.
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draenei = tiefling.
I play WoW. In the Burning Crusade expansion, they offer draenei, a demon-blooded, alien race as one of the new race options. They are very popular, because they're new, and have 'corrupt' elements...though the 'demonic' is packaged as 'alien' in the lore.
could that have influenced the designers of 4e to promote tieflings?
part of the "slowest MMORPG-syndrome"?
... A farming village next to a chasm with ruins within and an abandoned tower up the road?...I believe without realizing it he is creating "The Sunless Citadel" module as his adventure start.
Replace the farm town with a mining town and the chasm with a cairn and you get the beggining of the Age of Worms campaign.
I'll have a double cafe late please.
perhaps they'll have the opportunity to bring in a tiefling to replace a dead character, once they've moved into more cosmopolitan areas.
You know what that says to me? Level adjustment.