Necromancer Games choose 4e - Any decision from Paizo?


4th Edition


Like the title says - Necro have announced that they will move over to 4e in partnership with Paizo. Have Paizo made a clear decision in this regard (or did I miss an announcement about it)?


I believe Paizo's stance is still "undecided."

I am just guessing as to when they will get their first in depth look at the 4th rules...

But I wouldn't expect an announcement until the new year, at the earliest.


Looking at their site, I don't see an announcement. Mind pointing me in the right direction?


Joshua J. Frost wrote:
Looking at their site, I don't see an announcement. Mind pointing me in the right direction?

Necro and 4E

j.

Paizo Employee Chief Creative Officer, Publisher

We're not deciding until we've seen the rules and a draft of the SRD. Neither of those things have happened yet, so we're still in the "undecided" category.

Here's hoping for fewer changes along the succubi/eladrin axis.

--Erik


Wow, If Paizo don't go 4th edition, I will be reluctant to change. Less than a year out from 4th edition and the great minds of Paizo do not have copy of the proposed rules. That does not sound good

I'm scared!!


One of the Gen Con videos showed Orcus on the cover of the 4e Monster Manual and one of the Wotc guys said he was the Official Mascot of 4e.And I was like damn they're stealing Nercomancer games Mascot those Bastarditos


They also made Asmodeus a god as well . . . I think they like assimilating other people's schtick. Although I know they owned them to begin with . . . so to speak.

Liberty's Edge

I thunk I wuz their mascot!


Erik Mona wrote:
We're not deciding until we've seen the rules and a draft of the SRD. Neither of those things have happened yet, so we're still in the "undecided" category.

OK - thanks for the quick reply :-)

Whatever you guys decide, I'll still be buying the edition-neutral Gamemastery stuff. If you do convert and provide conversion documents (as has been suggested here and there) then you'll keep me as a customer for the Pathfinder line and modules as well.

Like some other folks, I'm just not ready for 4e right now, although plenty are and fair play to them. I understand that, as a business, though, you have to go where the customer dollar is, and I respect that. I appreciate the way that Paizo is keeping us in the loop about their position - it's very welcome.

Erik Mona wrote:

Here's hoping for fewer changes along the succubi/eladrin axis.

--Erik

Hmm. Yes. Yes indeed. Ah well, whatever fluff WotC "fixes", you can just fix right back, I guess ;-)


KnightErrantJR wrote:

They also made Asmodeus a god as well . . . I think they like assimilating other people's schtick. Although I know they owned them to begin with . . . so to speak.

From what it sounds like, they're going to go "generic" for the core world. I'm sure this is in response to the issues that they had with the Core pantheon that wasn't usable by other game companies through the OGL/d20 License due to copyright issues.

This way, everyone will be able to use the core pantheon to better integrate with what they are doing with the Core setting, which sounds like they may put out some kind of Campaign Setting.

Just my 2 copper.


Hmm . . . .this is such a thorny issue. I absolutely love the quality, customer service, knowledge and passion that Paizo brings to the table in seemingly endless quantities . . . yet I also know in my heart of hearts, my group and I will be converting to 4e.

If Paizo doesn't make the change wholeheartedly, I hope you guys still offer the occasional 4e adventure or what not.


If Paizo wants to sell any merchandise, Paizo will be going 4e. Don't kid yourselves.

In fact, the very fact that they want to sell merchandise (i.e. Pathfinders) is the very reason why they haven't made the announcement.

"....Search your felings....you know this to be true!" D Vader


I’ve Got Reach wrote:

If Paizo wants to sell any merchandise, Paizo will be going 4e. Don't kid yourselves.

In fact, the very fact that they want to sell merchandise (i.e. Pathfinders) is the very reason why they haven't made the announcement.

Yeah, unfortunately I think you've got the right of it.

At least I'll have two full adventure paths before I'll have to cancel my subscription.

Liberty's Edge Contributor

Kamelion wrote:
Whatever you guys decide, I'll still be buying the edition-neutral Gamemastery stuff. If you do convert and provide conversion documents (as has been suggested here and there) then you'll keep me as a customer for the Pathfinder line and modules as well.

I've been meaning to say something like this, myself, ever since the announcement for 4th Edition came out.

I have made a firm decision not to change over to 4th Edition. The hardest part of that decision for me is the thought that I'll be turning away from Paizo. I think your products are the best in the market, right now, and I was really excited about following future adventure paths and the development of the Gamemastery world. Unfortunately, I don't have the time or energy to "reverse engineer" 4th Edition rules to work with 3.5 (regardless of what the changes are).

If Paizo makes the decision to go to 4th Edition (which makes total sense from a business standpoint), I will continue to make whatever purchases I can for non-rules-related products through you guys. I will however, have to cancel my subscription and cease purchasing rules-related modules and products.

I really wish WotC could have held off a bit longer on this change.

With great admiration for the Paizo team,
Paris Crenshaw


I think the fact they even have this 4e forum is a key indicator that they'll be switching over. Sure they'll want to gather customer data regarding 4e, however most gamers will make the switch. Paizo will follow.

Liberty's Edge

I think Paizo making the change to 4e is as inevitible as the publication of 5e.

The question is when, and so far the answer is still we don't know.

I would be quite surprised if WotC lets the SRD slip out before they finish publishing the core 3. This makes business sense from a) letting the SRD out first will dillute deadtree sales and b) being the only 4e game in town for GenCon next year.

So we are looking at around this time next year before they can even make an educated decision, and at least 3 to 6 months after that before they can get anything in print.


All publishers i.e. Goodman Games, Necromancer Games, and Paizo will be dead to me when they switch to 4.0. The rules covered in 4.0 are so much different from 3.5 that they will wreak havok if I try to covert.

Sorry guys. I love your stuff, but I don't need more headaches. I'm sorry, but you won't survive very long in a 4.0 world. I'd try and find a job in another field before your time runs out.

Paizo Employee Chief Technical Officer

I’ve Got Reach wrote:

If Paizo wants to sell any merchandise, Paizo will be going 4e. Don't kid yourselves.

In fact, the very fact that they want to sell merchandise (i.e. Pathfinders) is the very reason why they haven't made the announcement.

Nope. The reason we haven't made the announcement is that we don't know. If we see 4th Edition and decide it's a steaming pile, we won't go near it. But if it's the best thing to happen to D&D since scaled maps, we'll get onboard pronto. Odds are good it will be somewhere in between, but until we know more, we have made no decisions.

(Personally, I hope we can find a way to support both editions to some extent, at least for a while.)

Paizo Employee Creative Director

We still haven't seen the 4th edition rules yet, and until we do, we aren't comfortable making a decision one way or another. From what I've heard about the mechanics of the new edition, it sounds like there's an awful lot of good ideas and good intentions. I can't say I'm a fan of most of the flavor changes that I've heard about the new edition, but if we DO switch to 4th edition, flavor is a relatively simple thing to change so that it'll fit what we want to do with Pathfinder and Golarion.

So yah... stay tuned, but we haven't made the decision yet.

EDIT: AND: What Vic said.


Thanks, James & Vic for replying.

I'd be shocked if you don't switch - but pleased. :)

I'll be interested to hear what each of you like and dislike about the new edition once it's out.

Do you have any idea *when* you'll get to see the new rules?


I certainly don't want to put words in the mouths of the Paizo staff...

But I have to guess, that even if they get a look at the rules before the preview books are released, they won't be able to even admit it until after the preview books are out.

(Bear in mind, the NDA for playtesters even states that they can't admit they are playtesters.)

That is why I said earlier in the thread, that I wouldn't expect anything to be said until the new year.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

Disenchanter wrote:
But I have to guess, that even if they get a look at the rules before the preview books are released, they won't be able to even admit it until after the preview books are out.

While I'm sure NDAs will be involved, and once we get copies of the rules we won't be able to say much about them until the NDAs let us... I can't foresee a clause in the NDA that prevents us from saying "YES, we've seen the rules. We're currently looking them over and evaluating them for use in GameMastery stuff." In any case... Pathfinder will be staying 3.5 through to volume 12 (next July). That much I can guarantee.


James Jacobs wrote:

We still haven't seen the 4th edition rules yet, and until we do, we aren't comfortable making a decision one way or another. From what I've heard about the mechanics of the new edition, it sounds like there's an awful lot of good ideas and good intentions. I can't say I'm a fan of most of the flavor changes that I've heard about the new edition, but if we DO switch to 4th edition, flavor is a relatively simple thing to change so that it'll fit what we want to do with Pathfinder and Golarion.

So yah... stay tuned, but we haven't made the decision yet.

EDIT: AND: What Vic said.

James, thanks to you, Vic, Eric, and all of the Paizo staff for your honest appraisals thus far. Ultimately, you guys have to do what's best for the company but I can't tell you how refreshing it is to see that you will actually evaluate 4e before making the decision.

While I don't consider myself to be anti-4e, at the end of the day, this is still a hobby for me. With wife, kids, mortgage, work, etc. even if 4e is fan-frakkin-tastic, I can't throw my 3e/OGL books over for 4e. I'm too invested in it, both from a campaign and financial perspective. Also, thus far with regards to 4e, I've been hearing a lot of "good-intentioned" changes for change's sake, some intriguing ideas, and a whole lot of ideas that are a turn-off.

I wish I had discovered the fantastic work Paizo does sooner. I jumped on board the Pathfinder train and you guys have delivered in spades. You guys write the stuff that I having been searching for for many years. Most of my collection is made up of OGL and d20 books because other companies were putting out the kinds of books I wanted whereas WotC wasn't.

So while I recognize that Paizo may want/have to go the 4e route at some point, you've got a loyal customer who will be directing most of his gaming budget Paizo's way for as long as Paizo 3.5/OGL products are available.

Thanks again. You guys keep raising the bar and I'm grateful.


My gaming group has yet to play "Age of Worms" nor "Savage Tide" nor the two Pathfinder paths that will be 3.5. Since none of the DMs in our group have the time to do anything other than run pre-prepared adventures, it's unlikely we'll switch to 4th edition until rumors of 5th edition start popping up. By then we might not even be gaming any more, who knows?

I really hope that 4e blows me away to the point that I want to switch immediately, but we'll see.


farewell2kings wrote:

My gaming group has yet to play "Age of Worms" nor "Savage Tide" nor the two Pathfinder paths that will be 3.5. Since none of the DMs in our group have the time to do anything other than run pre-prepared adventures, it's unlikely we'll switch to 4th edition until rumors of 5th edition start popping up. By then we might not even be gaming any more, who knows?

I really hope that 4e blows me away to the point that I want to switch immediately, but we'll see.

I agree, I have yet to start even the SCAP and am anticipating getting started with one AP or another in the spring... right about the time the rules will change. Heres hoping its not too great a leap and the good changes outweight the "well meant" changes.


The Real Troll wrote:

All publishers i.e. Goodman Games, Necromancer Games, and Paizo will be dead to me when they switch to 4.0. The rules covered in 4.0 are so much different from 3.5 that they will wreak havok if I try to covert.

Sorry guys. I love your stuff, but I don't need more headaches. I'm sorry, but you won't survive very long in a 4.0 world. I'd try and find a job in another field before your time runs out.

Exactly the same here. Used Dungeon for entering the world of D&D (never played T$R Stuff before, though I'M old enough) because of its quality (Dungeon's) and came to love 3.5. Buy everything 3.5 now - and will stop buying with 4.0.

Maybe some players will use 4.0 to "start new from the beginning" ... other will use it to "finish their collection - so do i.

greetz from Hunnenland.


James Jacobs wrote:


So yah... stay tuned, but we haven't made the decision yet.

Some funny but interesting thoughts: What if.

What if Paizo doesn't jump into the row of 4.0ers. Is there a chance for becoming a Kingmaker/Kingslayer? MANY players will decide their switch upon PAIZOs acting.

NOT switching might create a weak 4.0 ... with a impatient HASBRO waiting for a successful WOTC. It might make a strong PAIZO with nothing to loose - you can always choose to "take the last train" and get onto 4.0 if it is a runner. On the other hand, it might also make PAIZO a new prime player on the D&D market.

Thinking about an own PAIZO 3.5 or better 3.6 Rulebook in the future ... maybe with buying the rights of Greyhawk (WOTC obviously does not want it) or an own world binded into it... or more.

This is THE chance of getting the new big player with just a few risks.

Just say No. :-)

Just a thought ...

Scarab Sages

Hopefully, Hasbro won't just buy Paizo to settle the 4.0 issue (not-so-subtle cry for reassurance...)


Ultimately, I think that Paizo will make the decision to change. Of course, I'm also one of those optimistic people that think that 4e will be a good game. If Paizo sees something in 4e that stops them from changing over it may well make me think twice about making the transition myself.

Sovereign Court

Pathfinder Pathfinder Accessories, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Charter Superscriber
ehb1022 wrote:
Hopefully, Hasbro won't just buy Paizo to settle the 4.0 issue (not-so-subtle cry for reassurance...)

what?!? I keep praying Paizo buys Hasbro to settle the issue!


Vic Wertz wrote:

If we see 4th Edition and decide it's a steaming pile, we won't go near it. But if it's the best thing to happen to D&D since scaled maps, we'll get onboard pronto. Odds are good it will be somewhere in between, but until we know more, we have made no decisions.

(Personally, I hope we can find a way to support both editions to some extent, at least for a while.)

That makes me feel better, at least for the time being. Paizo's work is so beautiful that I really want to invest in it. I've put so much money into 3rd Edition / 3.5e that I can't even conceive of buying into another new edition. I've been with the Grand Old Game through every edition since Moldvay red-box Basic, but like BPorter said, this is just a hobby, and I've got a wife, a freelance career, and crushing student loan debts to consider. I simply don't have the disposable income I once had. I can't afford get onboard the 4e train, no matter how pretty it may be - this is the stop where I finally get off.

I guess that makes me a grognard?

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