4.0 vs 3.5 – What additional products should WotC have given us?


3.5/d20/OGL

The Exchange

First, I don’t know if I will like 4th Edition but, either way, I probably won’t switch for awhile.

I was talking over 3.5 vs. 4.0 with a long distance friend. As usual the topic of ‘I have more 3.5 books and adventures than I can use before I die’ came up. Then the often heard, 'WotC has been putting out poor product, twice a month, for the past 18 months.’ I responded with something like, ‘WotC was probably distracted by 4.0 and wanted to finish everything up. At least they finished everything, although possibly at the expense of quality’ (P.S. I think we knock WotC overly much about quality).

We are all caught in the emotions of losing what we love and some of us are excited about what 4.0 might be. What more did we really want more from WotC? They have extended themselves to saturated the market and give us as much as possible for 3.5. They have created enough to keep us happy forever.

We have more than I would have imagined: Core Books, Optional Rules (PHB2, DMG2, Unearthed Arcana, Tome of Battle, & Tome of Magic), Compendiums, Splat Books (Complete Arcane, etc.), Race Series (Races of Destiny, etc.), Expeditions Series, Environment Series (Sandstorm, Dungeonscape, etc.), Game Aids- (Dungeon Tiles, Fantastic Locations & Miniatures), Several Campaigns (including a new one in Eberron), Modules and Dungeon to give us our monthly fix (Although they took the Dungeon name back, they indirectly created Pathfinder that can support us indefinitely), Allot of third party companies (indirectly created again), and last, and least, Software Support (I suspect they tried to re-group and then decided to do the D&D Insider thing.)

What else do we really need to play forever? Not your personal preferences to make something just like your home-brewed campaign. Or 'I want more psionics.' Or 'I want another campaign like Eberron.' But what else is really missing? Is there any real gap?

P.S. Let’s not make this a whine about quality. Experimentation sometimes breeds good and bad.

Liberty's Edge

I'm really not upset over the quality of WotC's products--in fact, I've often said, just hold the 1st Edition AD&D PHB beside the v3.5 PHB, and there is no comparison: v.3.5 outshines all the rest in every area. I have every intention of buying the 4e books as they are published, and will add them to a preorder as soon as they're available. Nonetheless, I'm not canceling any of my preorders for upcoming v.3.5 books, not even Logue's presumably last v.3.5 Eberron supplement scheduled for a release of March 08, just two months before the launch of 4e's PHB. Then again, I still buy old 1E and 2E books and supplements on ebay every month...

Many here on these boards are still bitter over losing the print magazines, and that flows over into everything else. Some are very picky on the rules additions of supplemental books, and the inevitable conflicts between rules which arise when you have dozens of designers working, tight schedules, and, face it, the users out here are always going to see the mistakes invisible to the designers and copyeditors on the inside.

If I could ask anything more of WotC, honestly, it would be that we had been told much earlier. For people like me, I'm going to buy all the v3.5 books because, in the end, I'm a completist. But many others are genuinely upset that they have invested sometimes huge sums of money in a soon-to-be obsolete item. As an example, I just upgraded my Macs to iWork '07; spent $99 on a Family Pack...not one full week after I received my software, iWork 08 is released! Think of the players who just recently shelled out several hundred dollars on the three Core Books, maybe the FRCS and a couple supplements, and two or four of the remaining MMs...then they hear this!

In the end, like one of the staff guys said, it's not like my v3.5 stuff is going to spontaneously combust on 1 May 2008...just like I played a mishmash of 1 & 2E until finally converting to v.3.5, completely skipping v.3.0, and just like my old group (I'm between groups now as I move) occasionally played an old 1E adventure, with 1E characters, there's nothing to stop anyone from ignoring the new edition and driving on for the rest of their life with v3.5. Will you eventually run out of support for your game? Sure, just like eventually you will have to go to the junk yard to replace the bits in your 1964 1/2 Mustang...

While you're rummaging and scrounging for a carburetor 3.5 locking pin, hands dirty and greased, knuckles split and a fingernail torn to the quick on a rusty flange, I'll drive by serenely, honk the horn of my 2008 BMW 4e, wave smartly, and smile... :-)


I don't think WotC put out particularly bad product.

I think they could've given us a couple more years before coming out with 4th edition, but... Hey, whatever, y'know?

I also think it'd be nice if they continued to support 3.5 on their website. I know they're all about 4th Edition, but WE still have 3.5 and I'd like to see continued support for it until 4th comes out.

The Exchange

Duncan Clyborne wrote:
What else do we really need to play forever? Not your personal preferences to make something just like your home-brewed campaign. Or 'I want more psionics.' Or 'I want another campaign like Eberron.' But what else is really missing? Is there any real gap?

I updated my Topic. I was not specific enough in my Post Topic. I should asked; 'What additional products should WotC have given us?

Liberty's Edge

Duncan Clyborne wrote:
Duncan Clyborne wrote:
What else do we really need to play forever? Not your personal preferences to make something just like your home-brewed campaign. Or 'I want more psionics.' Or 'I want another campaign like Eberron.' But what else is really missing? Is there any real gap?
I updated my Topic. I was not specific enough in my Post Topic. I should asked; 'What additional products should WotC have given us?

If they're killing Oerth, something that ties it up nicely, a three-part HC campaign, something along those lines. If they're making any significant changes to the other campaign worlds, adventures that really build up expectation for what's next--a Halo-esq ending to campaign arcs for all the settings.


Adventure Path Charter Subscriber

Hmm. Well, I really have this need for symmetry, and it kind of bugs me that we had the first four complete books which appropriately cover the four generic archtypes, but then we only have *three* of the subsequent Complete books--Complete Mage, Complete Scoundrel, and Complete Champion...we need a Complete...Brawler, er...Scrapper...er, Soldier, or something like that.

It seems...in-Complete...


Ah hah! I'll second the fourth 'complete' book.

A revised epic ruleset, perhaps?

Really, I think they covered the non-campaign-specific stuff fairly well. All those splat books, five monster manuals (more if we count the fiendish codex stuff), two player handbooks, two dm guides, plus expanded material in the form of the tome of magic and the tome of battle, heroes of battle and horror. Race books, dragon books (races of, magic, 'nomicon), spell and magic item compendiums...

They gave us a /lot/. I'm kind of hard pressed to think of what they /could/ give us, let alone should.

The Exchange

I still don't know how to classify the "Heroes of .." books. (I am into sets.) And those Draconomicon, Liber Mortis, & Lords of Madness Rules Builder books. I can not believe I forgot all the monster manuals! Just too much on my shelf to take in all at once. I stopped at MM4. Or I said I would stop. Now that I know MM5 is last, I will get it. But wait, then I will need the Fiendish Codex's also. Must have everything....

Actually there is selfish little part of me that like 3.5 going away. It means I can, theoretically, complete my set someday.
Maybe I found my Avatar Name, 'Duncan Ketchum'. I wanted Duncan & Dragons, but the stupid server won't let me switch.

Liberty's Edge

Duncan Clyborne wrote:


...Actually there is selfish little part of me that like 3.5 going away. It means I can, theoretically, complete my set someday.

I noticed several of the larger booksellers on ebay are tossing off tons of 3.5 books with remainder marks at, get this, Spell Compendium: $4.99 plus $3.99 shipping. the Great Selloff: It has begun.

You know, I spoke with my FLGS proprietor yesterday as I picked up a final batch of Citadel paints, and he has decided against bringing in any of the future 3.5 books...

The Exchange

Last post of the day. I must go to eBay now and complete my set...

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