4dventure


4th Edition

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Scarab Sages

Heathansson wrote:

I got an idea:

Hey, Moff--I'm Dwayne Dibley!!!!!

You have teeth the druids use as a place of worship?


Moff Rimmer wrote:

I'm still waiting for my D1...

"Roll the die"
"I got a 1"
"Roll again"
"I got a 1"
...

Is it still a rule that you always fail on a natural "1"?


Shoot, with a "digital initiative," I'd be amazed if the game doesn't just go binary. d2's rule!

Sovereign Court

Kirth Gersen wrote:
Shoot, with a "digital initiative," I'd be amazed if the game doesn't just go binary. d2's rule!

I rolled a natural 10100!

Also note, that these days everyone uses Hex (which, now that you think on it, makes sense for the genre in other ways) so it would be:

I rolled a natural 0x14!

But, I digress greatly.

Liberty's Edge

Moff Rimmer wrote:
Heathansson wrote:

I got an idea:

Hey, Moff--I'm Dwayne Dibley!!!!!
You have teeth the druids use as a place of worship?

I got a lot accomplished today. Took 3 naps, ate 4 times, and made lots of things mine.

Scarab Sages

Heathansson wrote:
Moff Rimmer wrote:
Heathansson wrote:

I got an idea:

Hey, Moff--I'm Dwayne Dibley!!!!!
You have teeth the druids use as a place of worship?
I got a lot accomplished today. Took 3 naps, ate 4 times, and made lots of things mine.

You can't have my shiny thing...

Liberty's Edge

" Okay! But don't come running to me the next time you need someone to play Soap-Sud-Slalom down the cargo ramp. You can carry your own damn flags! "

Scarab Sages

This is an insane conversation...

Wilma's never leaving Fred and we know it.

Dark Archive

Regarding the infos on D&D Insider I feel a bit angry, 'cause it seems that they'll charge a monthly fee for stuff that is (or has been)already avaiable for free on their site!
At least 75% of the features mentioned there...

And it seems like this'll go in the WoW direction with the possibility to buy magic items and stuff for virtual characters.
The question is, where can these characters be run?
I can imagine the look my DM will give me when I come to a table top session and announce that I've bought a keen longsword +5 for my character at the WotC website.


This is mutiny Mr. Queeg!

The Exchange

Fox_Reeveheart wrote:
We are buying new PHB's at 4 years intervals! what the hell?!

And don't forget splat books and errata. I just fear I will be tempted to have electronic books, with errata, being pushed to me every month in a standardized format. For $10/mos the SRD and software, for $15/mos I also get the newest prestige classes, and for $20/mos I also get adventures. Sure the format will suck, because I like books, but I can then use my computer to help me. It might be worth it, rather than getting a new book every other month. And WotC gets steady income which is probably their greatest dream (and what the employees desire by the way so no one gets fired unnecessarily). I just wish they did this four years ago! That is what everybody should be mad about. They are 4 years too late with this.

PS I made up the rates. This is not some scoop.


Sebastian wrote:

Another update from ENWorld re D&D Insider:

Become a Dungeons & Dragons Insider and gain access to exclusive content designed specifically with D&D players in mind. As part of your monthly subscription, you gain access to features designed to enhance your D&D experience, including:

Wow.

I had a conversation with fellow gamers some time ago and our discussion turned to the future of D&D. A few of us respectfully disagreed with where we thought the game would go in the future.

My take was that the future of gaming will be computer driven, likely online. That in 10-20 years, paper and pencil gaming will be dead; in its place will be computer management tools. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying it will be a video game, just that the potential for what can be accomplished on a computer is tremendous. And, oh yeah, don't think that they don't recognize the kind of revenue that "Monthly Subscriptions" will bring in. I don't think there's an argumement to be made anymore.

Frankly - If your Paizo or anyone else in the fantasy business, you better come up with a game plan.

Dark Archive

The new details about the web tools and whatever add a completely new meaning to the expression "milking the cow".

I sincerely hope that the 4th edition (towards which I have interest only as far as Paizo products will be involved) will not follow the path set by Star Wars: Saga.
I don't want a simplified system with a handful of skills, and dumbed-down mechanics. Streamlined? No, thanks.
I prefer an options-rich, detailed rules set that gives enough adaptability to be fluid or accurate as needed by the situation.

The only good news is the OGL part. That means that we can hope for a Varisian Players Handbook, or that I can make it up myself.


Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Adventure, Lost Omens Subscriber

from this website:

www.icv2.com wrote:
WotC is incorporating online components into the game through a new Website, DnDInsider.com. Each paper product will include codes to unlock digital versions on the site for a "nominal" activation fee.

(Emphasis mine) So, now they start to sell their web enhancements? Good luck with that!

Stefan


Not sure if someone else linked this, but 6 pages is a bit to wade through so:

http://digital50.com/news/items/BW/2001/07/14/20070816005037/dungeons-drago nsr-flashes-4-ward-at-gen-con.html

Dungeons & Dragons(R) Flashes 4-ward at Gen Con
RENTON, Wash.-(Business Wire)-August 16, 2007 - Whether you storm a mad wizard's tower every week or haven't delved into a dungeon since you had a mullet and a mean pair of parachute pants, one thing is certain, millions of D&D(R) players worldwide have anticipated the coming of 4th Edition for many years. Today Wizards of the Coast confirms that the new edition will launch in May 2008 with the release of the D&D Player's Handbook(R). A pop culture icon, DUNGEONS & DRAGONS is the #1 tabletop roleplaying game in the world and is revered by legions of gamers of all ages.

The 4th Edition DUNGEONS & DRAGONS game includes elements familiar to current D&D players, including illustrated rulebooks and pre-painted plastic miniatures. Also releasing next year will be new Web-based tools and online community forums through the brand new DUNGEONS & DRAGONS Insider (D&D Insider(TM)) digital offering. D&D Insider lowers the barriers of entry for new players while simultaneously offering the depth of play that appeals to veteran players.

The 4th Edition rules emphasize faster game play, offer exciting new character options, and reduce the amount of "prep time" needed to run the game. D&D Insider includes a character creator that lets players design and equip their D&D characters, dungeon- and adventure-building tools for Dungeon Masters, online magazine content, and a digital game table that lets you play 24/7 on the Internet — the perfect option for anyone who can't find time to get together.

"We've been gathering player feedback for eight years," said Bill Slavicsek, R&D director of roleplaying and miniatures games at Wizards of the Coast. "Fourth Edition streamlines parts of the D&D game that are too complex while enhancing the overall play experience. At its heart, it's still a tabletop game experience. However, D&D Insider makes it easier for players to create characters, run their games, and interact with the rest of the D&D community."

Wizards of the Coast will release two 4th Edition preview books in December and January — Wizards Presents: Classes and Races(TM) and Wizards Presents: Worlds and Monsters(TM). The first live demos of 4th Edition will happen at the D&D EXPERIENCE(TM) gaming convention in Washington, D.C., in February 2008. The full scope of 4th Edition books, miniatures, and adventures will be available in the spring and summer of 2008.

Since its first release in 1974, the fantasy roleplaying game DUNGEONS & DRAGONS has taken millions of players on imaginary adventures of epic scale. Today, D&D is universally regarded as the original game that created the roleplaying game category, and the inspiration for generations of game designers. D&D is enjoyed by millions of players worldwide, while countless more remember it with fond nostalgia. For more information, visit our digital newsroom at www.wizards.com/gencon2007.

Wizards of the Coast, Inc., a subsidiary of Hasbro, Inc. (NYSE:HAS), is a worldwide leader in the trading card game and tabletop roleplaying game categories, and a leading developer and publisher of game-based entertainment products. Wizards is also a publisher of fantasy series fiction with numerous New York Times bestsellers. Dungeons & Dragons, D&D, Player's Handbook, Dungeons & Dragons Insider, D&D Insider, Wizards Presents: Classes and Races, Wizards Presents: Worlds and Monsters, and D&D Experience are trademarks of Wizards of the Coast in the U.S.A. and other countries. (C) 2007 Wizards

Liberty's Edge

Y'know, I don't know why they had to gack the print Dungeon and Dragon in the neck to do all that. You could realistically publish print adventures and rules crunch magazines with fee/codes to unlock online content too. And supposedly Dungeon and Dragon is reaching a "limited" audience, so what threat was it to the net business?
But, whatever. I'm just a crazy old guy on my porch.


Kirth Gersen wrote:
My "good authority" for d4's and 4 stats was a preverted leprechaun who hangs around with a weredog (in other words, I was kidding). Wait... this just in... standard dice are now considered "boring." 4th edition will introduce the d7 and d34.

Right. I absolutely knew that. I think I'll go do my work now...

*blushes*

Sovereign Court

I’ve Got Reach wrote:
Sebastian wrote:

Another update from ENWorld re D&D Insider:

Become a Dungeons & Dragons Insider and gain access to exclusive content designed specifically with D&D players in mind. As part of your monthly subscription, you gain access to features designed to enhance your D&D experience, including:

Wow.

I had a conversation with fellow gamers some time ago and our discussion turned to the future of D&D. A few of us respectfully disagreed with where we thought the game would go in the future.

My take was that the future of gaming will be computer driven, likely online. That in 10-20 years, paper and pencil gaming will be dead; in its place will be computer management tools. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying it will be a video game, just that the potential for what can be accomplished on a computer is tremendous. And, oh yeah, don't think that they don't recognize the kind of revenue that "Monthly Subscriptions" will bring in. I don't think there's an argumement to be made anymore.

Frankly - If your Paizo or anyone else in the fantasy business, you better come up with a game plan.

In 20 years I'll be 61, so I won't be able to carry the books anymore anyway. So it better be on my wrist computer. In big type. :-)


Yikes. The more I'm hearing, the more I'm not liking this. Not necessarily on the WIZARDS MUST DIE level(although I remain pissed at them), but even when I try looking at this with new eyes. They're promising an awful lot, and I have no idea what or how they are going to deliver. I'm not even sure how this is going to get "new blood" into the hobby- web-based .pdfs and the like are fine and dandy for some, but how is that going to compete against MMO's or video games in general? Streamlined combat is wonderful, but how is it going to get more streamlined(immediate and swift action confusiosity aside) than what it is now? A classless, raceless system as someone above mentioned? Great, but couldn't we have made our own with good save/bad save/good attack bonus/bad attack bonus and level adjustments for various races(which is something my gaming group has been doing already)? I agree with the above poster who insinuated that this may be more of a step back than a step ahead.


Freehold DM wrote:
... Streamlined combat is wonderful, but how is it going to get more streamlined(immediate and swift action confusiosity aside) than what it is now?

Rock, scissors, paper.

That's a step back. Thats how I used to solve shootouts between my toy soldiers and my fiendish enemies, the hordes of the kid next door.


Kruelaid wrote:
Freehold DM wrote:
... Streamlined combat is wonderful, but how is it going to get more streamlined(immediate and swift action confusiosity aside) than what it is now?

Rock, scissors, paper.

That's a step back. Thats how I used to solve shootouts between my toy soldiers and my fiendish enemies, the hordes of the kid next door.

Ugh...having..LARP...flashbacks...Feeling urge to..bid traits!


Just had a strange idea.

What if 4th ed = digital, and 3.5 = printed material? I know that isn't going to happen since 4th ed printed books are going to be for sale soon, but wouldn't that be nice?


Stebehil wrote:

from this website:

www.icv2.com wrote:
WotC is incorporating online components into the game through a new Website, DnDInsider.com. Each paper product will include codes to unlock digital versions on the site for a "nominal" activation fee.

(Emphasis mine) So, now they start to sell their web enhancements? Good luck with that!

Stefan

I'm baffled that people doubt whether this is the 4th edition announcement or not.

From all the different sources that has been linked to, both here and on ENWorld (and the one Stefan links to here in particular), it should be quite clear that it's the real deal.

Now to post something I already posted on ENWorld, which pertains to the D&DInsider.com part (particularly the online gaming table, character generator and such):
The thing is that you can already do all of those things now for a one time purchase + lots of free tools.
Buy e.g. FantasyGrounds for an online tabletop, install e.g. Skype for voice and use one of the numerous free character generators available (PCGen, HeroForge etc.). All info/pictures/character sheets can be kept online (also many free places to do this).
So, for a low one off purchase you can already do what they promise you can do for a monthly fee...
[addendum] Since all of these things are based of off the SRD, when the 4e SRD is published it's going to take... a week, tops, before all of these tools have been upgraded to 4e and made a huge chunk of D&DInsider.com obsolete (apart, of course, from the fabulous MySpac... erm, MyCharacter.com part... blech) - and without all the limitations Wizards plan to put up (only use the online gaming table 3 times a month, limited to 10 characters (WoW anyone?) etc).


golem101 wrote:

The new details about the web tools and whatever add a completely new meaning to the expression "milking the cow".

I sincerely hope that the 4th edition (towards which I have interest only as far as Paizo products will be involved) will not follow the path set by Star Wars: Saga.
I don't want a simplified system with a handful of skills, and dumbed-down mechanics. Streamlined? No, thanks.
I prefer an options-rich, detailed rules set that gives enough adaptability to be fluid or accurate as needed by the situation.

The only good news is the OGL part. That means that we can hope for a Varisian Players Handbook, or that I can make it up myself.

I just had a nasty flashback to The Elder Scrolls. Remember Morrowind? Great detail, endless hours of gaming fun, thousand and one things to see and do. But it included a steep learning curve.

Its successor, Oblivion. A nightmare if you enjoyed Morrowind, dumbed down skills, lots of weapons taken out and a main story you could finish within hours(and at level 1, mind you). It looked better but for the true fan, it just wasn't the same. I played it for hours, sure. But not after spending several days tweaking the dozens of mods I had to install to make it last and actually be enjoyable.

Getting the same kind of vibe here. Newer does not always mean better. It just means in our case, a lack of support for 3.5 material.

Dark Archive

Rift wrote:
golem101 wrote:

The new details about the web tools and whatever add a completely new meaning to the expression "milking the cow".

I sincerely hope that the 4th edition (towards which I have interest only as far as Paizo products will be involved) will not follow the path set by Star Wars: Saga.
I don't want a simplified system with a handful of skills, and dumbed-down mechanics. Streamlined? No, thanks.
I prefer an options-rich, detailed rules set that gives enough adaptability to be fluid or accurate as needed by the situation.

The only good news is the OGL part. That means that we can hope for a Varisian Players Handbook, or that I can make it up myself.

I just had a nasty flashback to The Elder Scrolls. Remember Morrowind? Great detail, endless hours of gaming fun, thousand and one things to see and do. But it included a steep learning curve.

Its successor, Oblivion. A nightmare if you enjoyed Morrowind, dumbed down skills, lots of weapons taken out and a main story you could finish within hours(and at level 1, mind you). It looked better but for the true fan, it just wasn't the same. I played it for hours, sure. But not after spending several days tweaking the dozens of mods I had to install to make it last and actually be enjoyable.

Getting the same kind of vibe here. Newer does not always mean better. It just means in our case, a lack of support for 3.5 material.

I'm kinda scared. Do you have uber-telepathy skills?

That was exactly the same situation I was thinking about (and the same experience I went through).

Whoa.

Sovereign Court

GentleGiant wrote:
Stebehil wrote:

from this website:

www.icv2.com wrote:
WotC is incorporating online components into the game through a new Website, DnDInsider.com. Each paper product will include codes to unlock digital versions on the site for a "nominal" activation fee.

(Emphasis mine) So, now they start to sell their web enhancements? Good luck with that!

Stefan

I'm baffled that people doubt whether this is the 4th edition announcement or not.

From all the different sources that has been linked to, both here and on ENWorld (and the one Stefan links to here in particular), it should be quite clear that it's the real deal.

Now to post something I already posted on ENWorld, which pertains to the D&DInsider.com part (particularly the online gaming table, character generator and such):
The thing is that you can already do all of those things now for a one time purchase + lots of free tools.
Buy e.g. FantasyGrounds for an online tabletop, install e.g. Skype for voice and use one of the numerous free character generators available (PCGen, HeroForge etc.). All info/pictures/character sheets can be kept online (also many free places to do this).
So, for a low one off purchase you can already do what they promise you can do for a monthly fee...
[addendum] Since all of these things are based of off the SRD, when the 4e SRD is published it's going to take... a week, tops, before all of these tools have been upgraded to 4e and made a huge chunk of D&DInsider.com obsolete (apart, of course, from the fabulous MySpac... erm, MyCharacter.com part... blech) - and without all the limitations Wizards plan to put up (only use the online gaming table 3 times a month, limited to 10 characters (WoW anyone?) etc).

yes... true... if you know enough and are interested enough to track all those things down.. put them all together.. get all your friends setup with them properly... and coordinate it all yourself...

Realize, not all people that play DnD love to read every book front to back and lurk on gaming forums reading every posting. (I know, what's wrong with those people?)

Step back and look at this not as "something I can already do" as "consolidating digital gaming for the masses".

If you equate Wizards with Microsoft, it makes much more sense. Yes, i could find lots of "free" tools that do the same thing as Microsoft Office, but most people use Microsoft Office cause they don't have the time/interest to track down the other stuff. They just want to write a letter.

Dark Archive Bella Sara Charter Superscriber

Rift wrote:


Its successor, Oblivion. A nightmare if you enjoyed Morrowind, dumbed down skills, lots of weapons taken out and a main story you could finish within hours(and at level 1, mind you). It looked better but for the true fan, it just wasn't the same. I played it for hours, sure. But not after spending several days tweaking the dozens of mods I had to install to make it last and actually be enjoyable.

Getting the same kind of vibe here. Newer does not always mean better. It just means in our case, a lack of support for 3.5 material.

Perhaps the non-"true fans" have a different perspective on the matter and enjoy the game more. Which is better - a small group of hardcore players absolutely love something or that a wide base of players really like something?

In the world of business, I think we know the answer. In the world of hardcore fandom...well, let's just say it's not generally a route to solvency.

Sovereign Court

Sebastian wrote:
Rift wrote:


Its successor, Oblivion. A nightmare if you enjoyed Morrowind, dumbed down skills, lots of weapons taken out and a main story you could finish within hours(and at level 1, mind you). It looked better but for the true fan, it just wasn't the same. I played it for hours, sure. But not after spending several days tweaking the dozens of mods I had to install to make it last and actually be enjoyable.

Getting the same kind of vibe here. Newer does not always mean better. It just means in our case, a lack of support for 3.5 material.

Perhaps the non-"true fans" have a different perspective on the matter and enjoy the game more. Which is better - a small group of hardcore players absolutely love something or that a wide base of players really like something?

In the world of business, I think we know the answer. In the world of hardcore fandom...well, let's just say it's not generally a route to solvency.

I'll give you an example of this from my own experience. I'm the P&P gamer in the family. My wife played a reaalll long time ago. (I'm not going to say how long, she'd hit me). My son hasn't played much at all, he's mostly a vidgamer.

So we decided we wanted to try Dad's game. Sounded great right? Started running them through SCAP (yah Paizo!). Rolled up 3.5 characters, threw a couple NPC's along with them, and off we went.

About 8 sessions in, it became really clear they weren't having fun. My wife wanted to role play her dwarf taunting the elf, not calculate her power attack each time. My son just plain didn't have the time to read the 3.5 book nuiances with AP tests and the SAT. It soon became very clear that they weren't cracking the book between sessions and it was becoming "not fun".

On top of that, Dad was running a couple NPC's as well as the bad guys, so was a bit busy to keep reminding them of things.

SO we punted 3.5. I found Microlite20 on the web, and converted their characters. 1 page character sheet. 4 skills, simple combat (1 action, no AoO), simple spells (spend HP to cast), etc. etc. They loved it. They could play the game without having to be rule memorizers.

I guess the point I want to make here is that there are multiple types of gaming experiences that should be available. Simple isn't always bad. Layers are better.

Dark Archive Bella Sara Charter Superscriber

Pete Apple wrote:


SO we punted 3.5. I found Microlite20 on the web, and converted their characters. 1 page character sheet. 4 skills,...

Agreed - one size does not fit all. A good rules set can scale complexity. And it's much easier to add complexity than to subtract it.


Dang, I come back from a church trip just when the time bomb hit 4:40. Its pretty shocking but I knew it was coming. With an umpcoming shift in rules, how will this affect Pathfinder?

Dark Archive

Sebastian wrote:

Perhaps the non-"true fans" have a different perspective on the matter and enjoy the game more. Which is better - a small group of hardcore players absolutely love something or that a wide base of players really like something?

In the world of business, I think we know the answer. In the world of hardcore fandom...well, let's just say it's not generally a route to solvency.

To keep along the Morrowind/Oblivion to 3rd/4th edition parallelism, there's one more element to factor in.

The oversimplified game structure (skills, navigation, levelling up, difficulty adjustment) and the lack of support towards third-party created mods (mostly regarding scripts and a modeller plug-in) by Bethesda alienated a large chunk of the hardcore fanbase. An awful lot of the most dedicated mod creators said goodbye in frustration - and with them a good size of the people who enjoyed Morrowind.
Anyone who has been in that community in the last two years can tell you the same thing, it's not just my opinion.

So they have a larger client base, made up of the so-called casual-gamers but also a more fickle one. Maybe it's good for the money NOW, but it's also a very risky move.

When the 5th edition (or 4.5 or whatever) comes out, will it be supported by a sizeable number of fans that buys almost every supplement, or just considered by casual gamers who give a look to the core manuals and then go on to a more immediate game?

Lowering the intrinsic quality of a product* just to appeal to a larger client base is not the smartest move, if you plan to survive the market for more than a few years/months...

*: note that is an exaggeration on my part. I don't know anything about the details of the next 4th edition, nor I am speculating that it will undoubtely be inferior to anything we know at the moment. It's just that the present evidence points in a direction, and that's all.


Apparently Paizo knew something about this. In another thread, Mike said he is not allowed to reveal anything as yet (See Pathfinder & 4th ed thread). Hey, if Paizo was aware of 4e. and created Pathfinder with that knowledge, I think I might be a happy clam. It probably means the continued survival of Paizo.

Hey, if I can have a better, newer edition with online support and Golarion I'll feel warm and fuzzy on the inside. I might even dance (but I don't have a beautiful lawn to frolic on like Sebastian).

Dark Archive Bella Sara Charter Superscriber

golem101 wrote:


Lowering the intrinsic quality of a product* just to appeal to a larger client base is not the smartest move, if you plan to survive the market for more than a few years/months...

*: note that is an exaggeration on my part. I don't know anything about the details of the next 4th edition, nor I am speculating that it will undoubtely be inferior to anything we know at the moment. It's just that the present evidence points in a direction, and that's all.

How does the evidence point to inferior? The evidence points toward easier to learn and use. In most circles, ease of use is considered a positive attribute. It's mostly when you get to insular hard core groups who cherish their insider knowledge/status or a loss in functionality where simplicity is a negative.

It's like techies that complain about the move from dos to windows. I wonder what modern computing would look like if they got their way...


Kruelaid wrote:
Freehold DM wrote:
... Streamlined combat is wonderful, but how is it going to get more streamlined(immediate and swift action confusiosity aside) than what it is now?

Rock, scissors, paper.

That's a step back. Thats how I used to solve shootouts between my toy soldiers and my fiendish enemies, the hordes of the kid next door.

Wow. Why didn't I think of that? We just used to get into big arguments about who won.

Grand Lodge

Rift wrote:

I just had a nasty flashback to The Elder Scrolls. Remember Morrowind? Great detail, endless hours of gaming fun, thousand and one things to see and do. But it included a steep learning curve.

Its successor, Oblivion. A nightmare if you enjoyed Morrowind, dumbed down skills, lots of weapons taken out and a main story you could finish within hours(and at level 1, mind you). It looked better but for the true fan, it just wasn't the same. I played it for hours, sure.

Holy! Someone who feels the same way I do about Morrowind vs Oblivion! I thought I was alone in the universe!! Morrowind was one of my favorite experiences on a computer. The whole scaling in Oblivion just felt so wrong and since I played it on a 360 I couldn't add any patches to fix that.

Anyway, I am ambivalent on the whole 4E. Wait and see, I guess.

Grand Lodge

golem101 wrote:


I'm kinda scared. Do you have uber-telepathy skills?

That was exactly the same situation I was thinking about (and the same experience I went through).

Whoa.

Make that two!! Morrowind 4evah!!

My leet speak is lacking. I must practice so I can fit in with the gleemax crowd. The porch is not for this old man!


Sebastian wrote:
I wonder what modern computing would look like if they got their way...

Fewer blue screens of death and more linux.


...I have a question, actually. If the books are going to be released in May 2008...

...What exactly are we counting down for?

Liberty's Edge

Call me jaded - but the timing of WotC's 4E announcement at Gen Con when Paizo is launching Pathfinder just seems nasty and not coincidental. I know the Paizo folks say that Paizo & WotC are still on friendly terms, but...It seems to me that 2007 Gen Con would be buzzing with Paizo/Pathfinder enthusiasm for some very cool new products. (Hopefully it still will be.) But now I think the 4E talk is going to damper the 3.5 products. Seems like WotC wants to make sure buyers have that "3.5 is going to be obsolete" feeling going into the Pathfinder launch.

Probably all coincidental, but it seems calculated from my point of view.


Lori B wrote:
Call me jaded - but the timing of WotC's 4E announcement at Gen Con when Paizo is launching Pathfinder just seems nasty and not coincidental. ...

Probably coincidental. GenCon is the natural place and time to announce (D&D4e) or ship (Pathfinder) big things. And frankly, Wizards has better things to than base their business decisions around what Paizo does.

Scarab Sages

I just had to laugh --> here

Dark Archive

Sebastian wrote:
It's like techies that complain about the move from dos to windows. I wonder what modern computing would look like if they got their way...

A less user-friendly, but more efficient one. ;)

As I noted, at the moment I don't know any detail more than everyone else here. So it's just the gut feeling I've got from "emphasize faster game play", the whole D&D Insider online thing, and the trend I've witnessed in the latest supplements for 3.5 edition.


Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Adventure, Lost Omens Subscriber
Lori B wrote:

Call me jaded - but the timing of WotC's 4E announcement at Gen Con when Paizo is launching Pathfinder just seems nasty and not coincidental. I know the Paizo folks say that Paizo & WotC are still on friendly terms, but...It seems to me that 2007 Gen Con would be buzzing with Paizo/Pathfinder enthusiasm for some very cool new products. (Hopefully it still will be.) But now I think the 4E talk is going to damper the 3.5 products. Seems like WotC wants to make sure buyers have that "3.5 is going to be obsolete" feeling going into the Pathfinder launch.

Probably all coincidental, but it seems calculated from my point of view.

I think you see ghosts there, Lori. GenCon is theplace to announce big news in the RPG business, so it´s logical that WotC announce it there. It will cut into paizos and every other publishers business, for sure. But, it does not come that unexpected.

Stefan


Celestial Healer wrote:

Blame WotC.

Maybe the new rulebooks will all be typed in 1337 speak.

5w337! Maybe they'll have an option to text message the core books to my cell phone. I'll finally be a hip as the tweens at Hot Topic (minus the chipped black nail polish and shredded, oversized pants)!!!

- Chris Shadowens

Scarab Sages

I'd like to wait and see what happens.

I didn't get any of the Core 3.5 books. I love many of the new books, Tome of Battle and Tome of Magic being my faves.
If the 4e books work with the books I currently have then great. If they don't I'll be happy with my Pathfinder collection.

I don't like the subscription thing for online access.
It does make sense that they would go that way, many many businesses are going with monthly subscriptions. (It's a way to make it look like you are not spending as much money on something. Thus 'joe consumer' will not have as hard as a time to pay for this 'widget'.)
I stopped playing MMORPG's because of this.


Morgan Le Vwa wrote:

...I have a question, actually. If the books are going to be released in May 2008...

...What exactly are we counting down for?

They probably have a nice teaser.

like a class or a small piece of the rules, or maybe just some art work.

That sounds logic to me

Dark Archive Bella Sara Charter Superscriber

golem101 wrote:


As I noted, at the moment I don't know any detail more than everyone else here. So it's just the gut feeling I've got from "emphasize faster game play", the whole D&D Insider online thing, and the trend I've witnessed in the latest supplements for 3.5 edition.

Fair enough. I guess here is what I'm imagining. You know how in videogames, like diablo, you've gor your paper doll for your character and inventory slots? And you can drag equipment on to the character to equip it?

Okay, now imagine you can do that on the mycharacter page and it updates your character to have the equipment. And it subtracts the gold out. And it calculates encumbrance. And AC. And speed.

Boom, a process that is tedious and not very fun with pen and paper becomes easy and clean.

Instead of item cards with your crusty hand written notes, you can build your items using some art available from wotc and send it electronically. And maybe you can still purchase new equipment cards with new art from paizo.

There are so many ways a well integrated online platform can improge the game. It could suck, it could be a piece of crap, but I'm going to bet on wotc to pull through.

Liberty's Edge

What does "improge" mean?

(gosh, I'm clever)

Dark Archive Bella Sara Charter Superscriber

Heathansson wrote:

What does "improge" mean?

(gosh, I'm clever)

Bah. Typing on the blackberry.

Liberty's Edge

snowyak wrote:
Morgan Le Vwa wrote:

...I have a question, actually. If the books are going to be released in May 2008...

...What exactly are we counting down for?

They probably have a nice teaser.

like a class or a small piece of the rules, or maybe just some art work.

That sounds logic to me

If I were WotC - I would launch the Character Generator as a free item today. Get folks excited about an easy way to create and update your characters in 3.5. Then they can slowly transition to an option for 3.5 or 4e character generators. After that they can transition to charging you a fee to maintain your 4e character. If folks realy like the online feature, they are more likely to want to pay for the service.

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