I'm certain that this has been discussed somewhere extensively already, but I have to wonder what the end of Dungeon and Dragon as a print magazine published by Paizo will mean for my favorite campaign world. While I'm looking forward to seeing the new campaign world that accompanies Pathfinder/Gamemastery, I doubt that Wizards will continue to support the campaign world that I love so dearly. Is it time for a switch?
Feel free to redirect me to any discussion already in progress on this topic.
Greyhawk is still live and active among the fans at Canonfire! and Oerth Journal. As far as "official content", with the exception of Expedition to Greyhawk Ruins coming from WotC, I know of nothing.
Yeah, it was sort of that whole official content thing that I was hungering for.
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In fact I will be running two Greyhawk-based events at GENCON this year: Warlock's Walk (Maure Castle) and Bottle City, which was an original level designed by me for the cmpaign all the way back in 1974.
Is Warlock's Walk a heretofore unpublished level of Maure Castle. If so, any chance that would be available as a published adventure?
I love running Maure Castle adventures ever since one of the PCs in my campaign died within 3 minutes of entering the dungeon.
Greyhawk's died and come back to life more than most campaigns. I'm not too worried about its future.
Per your 'Sign Off' in Dungeon 150, I'm hoping to one day see a 3.5 "Expedition to Barrier Peaks".
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Greyhawk's died and come back to life more than most campaigns. I'm not too worried about its future.Per your 'Sign Off' in Dungeon 150, I'm hoping to one day see a 3.5 "Expedition to Barrier Peaks".
Cthhulhudarren, you're reading my mind. "Expedition to the Barrier Peaks 3.5" would be incredibly cool.
Great name, btw
Thoth-Amons Overmind recognizes percipience from another
I thought there was talk of a 3.5 update to "Lost Caverns of Tsojcanth" floating out there. Any word on this at all ?
Greyhawk's died and come back to life more than most campaigns. I'm not too worried about its future.Per your 'Sign Off' in Dungeon 150, I'm hoping to one day see a 3.5 "Expedition to Barrier Peaks".Cthhulhudarren, you're reading my mind. "Expedition to the Barrier Peaks 3.5" would be incredibly cool.
Great name, btw
Thoth-Amons Overmind recognizes percipience from another
Tanks, bro. In the meantime, I shall be purchasing "Expedition to the Ruins of Greyhawk" and hoping that legions of dominated pc's do the same.
I thought there was talk of a 3.5 update to "Lost Caverns of Tsojcanth" floating out there. Any word on this at all ?
I would pay serious cash for that! This is the 1st I've heard of it, but I hope you're on to something! That's one of my favorite 1st edition modules.
I thought there was talk of a 3.5 update to "Lost Caverns of Tsojcanth" floating out there. Any word on this at all ?I would pay serious cash for that! This is the 1st I've heard of it, but I hope you're on to something! That's one of my favorite 1st edition modules.
Last I heard it was going to be a free update release on the WotC website ala "Tomb of Horrors" and "White Plume Mountain". Now my gut is saying it will be in one of the first issues of the "DI" Dungeon to sucker all of us old farts...
Rules Change, Greyhawk Endures
That´s so true!
Stefan
I thought there was talk of a 3.5 update to "Lost Caverns of Tsojcanth" floating out there. Any word on this at all ?
"Greg V (Contributor), Sat, Mar 31, 2007, 06:12 PM Reply
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WotC is doing a 3.5 update of S4 The Lost Caverns of Tsojcanth as one of their free web downloads. The author's pretty much done, so I would think it would be appearing in the next few months."
Well, this was at the end of May. I was wondering if it was still on the drawing board ?
Greyhawk r0x0r.
Oh, hai FR! Oh, hai Eb! lols twice.
I just luuurve the progessively backwards advancement of RPGs, and look forward to WotC D&D4e, a MMORPG.
You've proven in some of your other posts you can spell intelligently. But when you put on this teenage netgeek act, it's not only annoying, I don't quite get your meaning. You probably could give a crap what I think about your posts, but here's a suggestion anyway: if you want people to respond to you in a serious fashion, try being a little clearer and acting your age. I was willing to give you some slack when I read your initial post about the Pathfinder artwork, b/c I thought English wasn't your native language. Now it seems like you're just being affected.
I've been reading Expedition to Castle Greyhawk and I think its one of the best things Wizards of the Coast has put out in a long time, but maybe that's just because of the involvement of the fine authors associated with it.
Are there any plans within Wizards to release more levels of Castle Greyhawk or Maure Castle? Better still, are there any plans to release anything Greyhawk related beyond updates of classic adventures? Don't get me wrong, I eagerly await any oldies but goodies updated to 3.5, but I can always use more adventures set in my favorite campaign world.
Hmmm, from mere heresay and rumor it sounds as though Living Greyhawk might get the axe in favor of Living Forgotten Realms. Not the worst thing in the world for me, since I never played a single Living Greyhawk module (are these ever going to be available for download?), but seeing as the people at Paizo are the only people I really trust to get the campaign right I still worry.
I thought that the popularity of the adventure paths set in Greyhawk would eventually sway Wizards to support the campaign, but that dream seems to have sailed...
RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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I worry about the future of GH as well
As to Lost Caverns 3.5 I'd stated some time ago, when the DI was announced that it was the end of Free Mind's Eye, Dragonmarks, Class Acts, etc. So them putting LCoT3.5 in Dungeon online #1 doesn't surprise me.
Makes me cynical, but doesn't surprise me.
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One never knows. The end of the Living Greyhawk campaign might even prompt Wizards to eventually come out with a new Greyhawk sourcebook, since the future of the setting is no longer in the hands of the RPGA. I'm also certain that we shall continue to see Greyhawk adventures in the new Dungeon, perhaps even other adventure paths. Supposedly something big is being planned for Dungeon, which will be announced at the beginning of 2008. Adventure Path #4 perhaps? Hopefully the tradition to set the Dungeon adventure paths in Greyhawk will continue, although without Erik and James, that seems unlikely. So long as guys like Erik Mona, James Jacobs, Sean Reynolds, Gary Holian, Jason Bulmahn, and Greg Vaughan continue to write great Greyhawk adventures, the setting will continue to flourish.
One never knows. The end of the Living Greyhawk campaign might even prompt Wizards to eventually come out with a new Greyhawk sourcebook, since the future of the setting is no longer in the hands of the RPGA. I'm also certain that we shall continue to see Greyhawk adventures in the new Dungeon, perhaps even other adventure paths. Supposedly something big is being planned for Dungeon, which will be announced at the beginning of 2008. Adventure Path #4 perhaps? Hopefully the tradition to set the Dungeon adventure paths in Greyhawk will continue, although without Erik and James, that seems unlikely. So long as guys like Erik Mona, James Jacobs, Sean Reynolds, Gary Holian, Jason Bulmahn, and Greg Vaughan continue to write great Greyhawk adventures, the setting will continue to flourish.
I'm hoping that once Living Greyhawk ends next year, WOTC might find it in their hearts to sell the GH setting to Paizo; or at least licensce it out. You're right, there's already a stable full of great GH writers to pull from.
I'm hoping that once Living Greyhawk ends next year, WOTC might find it in their hearts to sell the GH setting to Paizo; or at least licensce it out.
SCREW THAT!! If Paizo is able to get ahold of Greyhawk (THE wish of wishes), I want them to have it in its entirity! After pulling the plug on CodeMonkey, Paizo and Sovereign Press, three companies that were putting out better licensed product than WotC was creating in house, I wouldn't accept a license from WotC if they paid me.
I thought there was talk of a 3.5 update to "Lost Caverns of Tsojcanth" floating out there. Any word on this at all ?Last I heard it was going to be a free update release on the WotC website ala "Tomb of Horrors" and "White Plume Mountain". Now my gut is saying it will be in one of the first issues of the "DI" Dungeon to sucker all of us old farts...
It's going to be in the the first online edition of Dungeon Magazine, #151. But you won't have to pay for it, as D&D Insider is demoing free to begin with.
Sadly, I feel that the only future Greyhawk has is with its fans. It certainly doens't look as if WotC has any plans for it, and I'm not sure I'd trust them with it anyway. Now if they were to get James, Erik, and company to work on a Greyhawk source book....
Erik wrote in another thread that WotC won´t licence out any settings at present. If this will change in the future, nobody knows. Until the stars break, it is fan material "only". Do check out Canonfire and Oerth Journal, there is really good stuff to be had for free!
Stefan
Has there been any definitive statement about which campaign world will serve as the campaign of the core 4th edition books? Or are they planning on making everything generic this time?
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Apparently on the wizards site the only one they have officialy said will make it to 4.0 is Forgotten Realms. They said that they will support some others but never specified what they are.
Well, it should be somewhat easy to figure out. Wotc said one setting releases each year. Forgotten Realms will be released in 2008. The only logical release in 2009 is Ebberon. Meh.
That would mean that the earliest that Greyhawk could see print would be 2010. That presupposes that Wotc will only release one setting a year and not license any to 3rd parties. Of course if Ravenloft or Dragonlance see print before Greyhawk, the 2010 date could slip to '11 or '12.
However you cut it, fan works will be the only source for a while to come.
:(
Hey folks, If you are new to GH are there good things in store for you. Start with the Downloads section here... the classic modules are almost all set in Greyhawk. These modules are cheap, numerous and great to read. Start with The Village of Hommlet and Temple of Elemental Evil, The Slavers and Queen of Spiders. Also, try the LGG.
You really dont need new material, as there are several dozen more ggod tiems. If you dont want to buy it all, go to Canonfire ( www.canonfire.com ). You can find hundreds of articles there.
The setting has 30 years of history. There a plenty of conversions available on the web. Also there are the adventure paths from the recent Dungeons. If you like GH, dont worry, you have years of material. I have been playing in GH for nearly 30 years and I still find new(old) things.
It's going to be in the the first online edition of Dungeon Magazine, #151. But you won't have to pay for it, as D&D Insider is demoing free to begin with.
Thanks Callum! Glad to see it will be released under the free demo. Very charitable of them (and note that I did not use [sarcastic] tag!).
If WotC's standard for "releasing" a setting is a set of campaign sourcebooks as encyclopedic and exhaustive as the 3rd edition Realms books, I'm not sure I want them to update the setting at all. One of the great things about Greyhawk, IMO, is that there's lots of room to customize it and plug things in, because not every square inch of the place has been mapped and catalogued. As other posters have noted, there's tons and tons of old material, and fan-based material out there and available--and that doesn't include three APs, two 3-part campaign arcs, and dozens of other Dungeon adventures (not to mention several WotC publications) that are explicitly set in GH or could easily be put there. Scan through F2K's Greyhawk campaign journal as an example of how to put your own campaign together out of a bunch of unconnected dungeon adventures, some of which are relocated to suit the needs of the campaign. There are also several threads put together by people who are designing more extended campaigns around the Istivin/Sterich arc (Dungeon 117-119 IIRC--I believe both Savage Screen Monkey and Skech are doing or have done this).
I've been fiddling with a possible campaign that would at some point involve the Witch Queen Iggwilv, her infamous offspring (Iuz and Drelzna), her infamous Demonomicon, and probably feature a return to the Lost Caverns of Tsojcanth. The campaign would weave together the Mad God's Key (probably re-set in Trask or Ungra Balan), Wolfgang Baur's two excellent adventures set in Blackmoor (Raiders of the Black Ice and the Clockwork Fortress), Fiend's Embrace, Ehlonna's Scar (possibly rerouted so that it goes from north to south through the Yatils instead of the other way around), and possibly the two Styes adventures, the Seeds of Sehan arc, the Coming Storm, and the Throne of Iuz, and possibly also may utilize a bit of material from two of the APs (Library of Lost Resort/Kings of the Rift from AoW and Iggwilv's abode from STAP). One can always use Maure Castle or (most recently) Castle Greyhawk as a place to stash some important item that must be retrieved.
There's also a lot of great Greyhawk material in Dragon recently. The Demonomicon series and Core Faiths have quite a bit to offer--even if the former's focus is not specifically Greyhawk.
I haven't plugged directly into Living Greyhawk, but the LGG contains literally hundreds of adventure hooks--at least two or three for each of the fifty or so countries detailed in the guide--and these could easily be used to work up adventures. The older boxed sets have many more hooks--so you've got at least three different historical decades of GH time in which to run your campaigns.
The question isn't whether GH will still be around--it's whether we will keep using it. Right now, I could run GH campaigns until they republish the setting for 4e--even if that doesn't happen until 2012.
Damn you Paizo, you made me fall in love with Greyhawk all over again, and you gave me hope that it would make a triumphant comeback, and now I realize that what I've been watching over the past month or so has been its murder. I knew, deep inside, when Dungeon was cancelled, that this would be it for Greyhawk, but I didn't want to give up hope.
I've never played anywhere but Greyhawk. Sure, I could go on playing 3.5 Greyhawk, but I know I'm going to switch to 4th edition, and its almost too much to bear.
I love the work on Pathfinder, and that's the campaign world our group is switching to, but its just all too sad to think that the classic world of 1st edition is just being tossed out with the garbage. Why not get rid of the Greyhawk references if they're not using the setting?
Why bother even calling the game D and D? The game does not remain the same. The game does not remain the same.
I'm sorry, I've always been something of a Greyhawk diehard. And I don't just want official Greyhawk content. I want Greyhawk to be D and D.
Everything else is just derivative for me.
I'm sorry, I've always been something of a Greyhawk diehard. And I don't just want official Greyhawk content.
Can I interest you in Canonfire and Oerth Journal? :)
David Witanowski, in addition to Lilith's offering (which is not insubstantial should she waft the magnificent smell of her cookies in your direction), consider the simplest approach of all:
Smile and nod knowingly when you acquire the 4e stuff, then ....
Not only am I a diehard, I'm also really anal. Canonfire and Oerth Journal aren't "official" enough for me. Stubborn of me, I know, but totally true.
Also, I don't have the time to create my own modules, adventure paths, or convert things to 4th, or really to do anything except run modules that other people have written. The only power I have over my own group is to have the final say on what campaign world we'll be in. But if I'm not given official 4th edition Greyhawk then that's it for me.
Is this not tearing anyone else up inside? C'mon, commiserate with me, dammit!
Not only am I a diehard, I'm also really anal. Canonfire and Oerth Journal aren't "official" enough for me. Stubborn of me, I know, but totally true.
Also, I don't have the time to create my own modules, adventure paths, or convert things to 4th, or really to do anything except run modules that other people have written. The only power I have over my own group is to have the final say on what campaign world we'll be in. But if I'm not given official 4th edition Greyhawk then that's it for me.
Is this not tearing anyone else up inside? C'mon, commiserate with me, dammit!
Weelll... back in the waning days of first edition, we ran the modules that were not set in Greyhawk IN Greyhawk - we didn't care if they got the names all wrong (Bloodstone Pass is where ? BAH! It's over here now, where we need it). Desert of Desolation series, Mines of Bloodstone series, all the Oriental Adventures stuff (which was originally all in Greyhawk anyway) ... that all got shoehorned into the Flaness.
Yes, it does rot toes that "official" Greyhawk material (outside of Paizo's efforts) has pretty much been non-existant - relative to everything else in terms of quantity - since the end of 1st edition.
Not only am I a diehard, I'm also really anal. Canonfire and Oerth Journal aren't "official" enough for me. Stubborn of me, I know, but totally true.
I beg to differ. It has not "100% official content" stamped on it, true, but you can find the work of a certain Erik Mona in both, IIRC. So while not official or canon in the strictest sense, it is quite close, and sometimes closer to the spirit of the setting than some official stuff (Gargoyles, anyone? Or the joke version of Castle Greyhawk?). But YMMV, of course.
Stefan
Yes, it does rot toes that "official" Greyhawk material (outside of Paizo's efforts) has pretty much been non-existant - relative to everything else in terms of quantity - since the end of 1st edition.
Hmmm... What about the Carl Sargent material? Or the stuff from Team Greyhawk in the late 90ies´? Ok, Ivid the Undying never made it to print, but hey - thats no big deal. Far from nonexistant, IMO. And all 2e.
Stefan
Carl Sergeant and Roger Moore were two of the bright spots for Greyhawk during the 2nd edition of the game. Sadly, I have not heard 'hide nor hair' of either of them in 3.0/3.5.
The rest of the so-called 'Greyhawk' materials were lousy, and were developed by TSR under management that was holding their noses, and only doing it because they were under pressure to produce material for the 'hated campaign' of the guy (Gygax) that they forced to sell out in 1985. And even the lousy Greyhawk products of the 90's still sold well, as far as I understand.
It drives me INSANE that WoTC takes Greyhawk fans completely for granted, assuming that we will continue to buy new edition products, knowing they (WoTC) will not then deliver any additional Greyhawk products that we desire; and instead turn their (WoTC's) attention EXCLUSIVELY to trying to attract new audiences to the game (as in Eberron) or releasing the 100th book chronicling each and every pointless detail down to the color of paint on every building in Waterdeep or Elminster's latest bowel movement.
Yes, it does rot toes that "official" Greyhawk material (outside of Paizo's efforts) has pretty much been non-existant - relative to everything else in terms of quantity - since the end of 1st edition.Hmmm... What about the Carl Sargent material? Or the stuff from Team Greyhawk in the late 90ies´? Ok, Ivid the Undying never made it to print, but hey - thats no big deal. Far from nonexistant, IMO. And all 2e.
Stefan
Well, after 1st edition, I can only recall one GOOD Greyhawk release in 2nd edition besides Greyhawk Wars, which was Greyhawk Ruins. The rest was disappointing material, or rehashes of 1st edition stuff. Granted, the rehashes were a blast, but I don't count those as 2nd edition.
Not only am I a diehard, I'm also really anal. Canonfire and Oerth Journal aren't "official" enough for me. Stubborn of me, I know, but totally true.
Also, I don't have the time to create my own modules, adventure paths, or convert things to 4th, or really to do anything except run modules that other people have written. The only power I have over my own group is to have the final say on what campaign world we'll be in. But if I'm not given official 4th edition Greyhawk then that's it for me.
Is this not tearing anyone else up inside? C'mon, commiserate with me, dammit!
I'm a diehard, but a little more relaxed on the "official" aspect of all things Greyhawk. I shamefully haven't checked out the Oerth Journal in years, and--yes, also shamefully--have never made the time to check out Canonfire. But I've found plenty of 2nd edition GH materials to enjoy and inspire me, though it's been a little tougher w/ 3rd ed. Still, some GH specific adventures in our dearly departed Dungeon helped a lot, and honestly, pretty much all the non-FR or Eberron adventures I find a way to put in the Flanaess anyway.
I hear you about the reasonable request to have this venerable setting officially supported, but WOTC's track record isn't strong on this. Here's my suggestion for you, though. Read through the online stuff, and I'm pretty sure some of the writers that are exceptional will be obvious to you in short time. I don't know who all has written what lately, but names like Erik Mona, Jason Bulmann, James Jacobs, Gary Holian, Greg Vaughan, to name some of them, are a pretty good indication of quality stuff in all things GH. IMO.
Carl Sergeant and Roger Moore were two of the bright spots for Greyhawk during the 2nd edition of the game. Sadly, I have not heard 'hide nor hair' of either of them in 3.0/3.5.
The rest of the so-called 'Greyhawk' materials were lousy, and were developed by TSR under management that was holding their noses, and only doing it because they were under pressure to produce material for the 'hated campaign' of the guy (Gygax) that they forced to sell out in 1985. And even the lousy Greyhawk products of the 90's still sold well, as far as I understand.
It drives me INSANE that WoTC takes Greyhawk fans completely for granted, assuming that we will continue to buy new edition products, knowing they (WoTC) will not then deliver any additional Greyhawk products that we desire; and instead turn their (WoTC's) attention EXCLUSIVELY to trying to attract new audiences to the game (as in Eberron) or releasing the 100th book chronicling each and every pointless detail down to the color of paint on every building in Waterdeep or Elminster's latest bowel movement.
A few months ago I followed the thread on Carl Sergeant w/ great interest, though it ultimately was a bit of a downer. But funny you mention another of my old GH heroes, Roger Moore. I've been meaning to ask the boards whatever became of him. I still carry around a copy of his parody story from a very early issue of Dragon, called "The Day of the Dwarf".
As for the "other" 2nd ed. GH stuff, did you really think all of it was bad? What about Sean K Reynold's "The Scarlet Brotherhood" supplement? I quite enjoyed that, for example. I like his work in general. I just picked up his "Anger of Angels" supplement for 3rd ed. Very nice work.
But to the heart of your post, yeah, I'm tired of being neglected or taken for granted by Wizards w/ their non-existent GH support. And now their new cosmology has given the bird to another favorite setting, Planescape. I don't know how much more I can take...
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Well, after 1st edition, I can only recall one GOOD Greyhawk release in 2nd edition besides Greyhawk Wars, which was Greyhawk Ruins. The rest was disappointing material, or rehashes of 1st edition stuff. Granted, the rehashes were a blast, but I don't count those as 2nd edition.Yes, it does rot toes that "official" Greyhawk material (outside of Paizo's efforts) has pretty much been non-existant - relative to everything else in terms of quantity - since the end of 1st edition.Hmmm... What about the Carl Sargent material? Or the stuff from Team Greyhawk in the late 90ies´? Ok, Ivid the Undying never made it to print, but hey - thats no big deal. Far from nonexistant, IMO. And all 2e.
Stefan
I have to disagree here. SLavers! was quite posibly the greatest 2nd edition Greyhawk supplement ever released. The amount of detail (most canon from the Greyhawk hardback, greyhawk wars, or at worst, Dragon magazine) was stunning. The book detailed the Wild Coast and the Pomarj and really brought them to life.
I also loved the Return of the Eight adventure, and the Star Cairns module, both of which had a nice 1st edition feel to them.
Overall, I got a lot of mileage out of the late 2nd edition Greyhwak materials.
teh 'ling
Whoa, I'd completely forgotten about the Star Cairn or the other stuff you'd mentioned Underling.
Shows how dim the light is in my closet of old gaming stuff.
The whole thing with one of the Circle of Eight winding up as a dretch was priceless. ^_^
A Paladin in Hell, while I do not recall the specific setting of it, was an excellent late 2nd edition module too.