anyway on the pdf issue, unless there is a royalty to be paid on each pdf, i really cannot see a reason for being niggardly on that issue. For one the cost to the company 1cent at most in bandwith, for us the consumer.. well.. yes we will eventually get the magazine -so we have one extra pdf.
All of which matter how much?
Sell the magazine and keep the pdf.. wow, i can think of more interesting way to take 3-4 euros or whatever the resale value, all the while losing the value of a magazine that can be read when anywhere from the computer, like in bed..
On the upside, it keeps us customers silent and semi-happy during the waiting time. And who knows, maybe new praises for excellent consumer value..
CEO
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Any chance of an official Paizo update on any progress this side of the weekend?I'm guessing that was a no.
Can somebody tell me at Paizo please tell me what Paizo is proposing to do to get me the 4 magazines that I'm due and which I have already paid for.
We haven't heard from TPFG in the latter half of this week. The last we heard from them is that the magazines were shipping. We wired a very large sum of money to them two weeks ago so they could get the magazines shipped to you guys. A very large sum. And I had really hoped that by doing that, we would have resolved these issues and gotten you your magazines. TPFG told us that they shipped the magazines once they had our money, but it is pretty obvious that they haven't done so since nobody is receiving their magazines.
We will continue to put pressure on TPFG to send out those issues. If I get to a point where I don't think they will fulfill their end of our contract, then we will ship the issues out from the US for customers who signed up through Paizo (unfortunately, we don't know who the customers are who signed up through TPFG). This will cost us another large sum of money, but it is the only right thing to do. Hopefully, TPFG will do the right thing since they now have our money and will ship the magazines out to you guys.
Trust me, as soon as I hear anything, I will post it here. Getting our European customers their final issues is a high priority for us here at Paizo.
-Lisa
various stuff about the missing magazines...
-Lisa
Many thanks for the update - much appreciated given its Saturday evening (or is still the morning over your way?)
I hate to say it, but I fear TPFG have used the money you sent to pay other creditors (or maybe their bank has kept it to clear debts if they were in the red?) Their website still says credit card payments are broken, and I simply don't believe that - much more likely services have been withdrawn by the bank or card companies.
Please keep us updated, and as I said earlier, I'm happy to receive the magazines in with Pathfinder if that keeps costs down.
Just for information I e-mailed TPFG today to ask about the missing magazines, not really expecting a response, but thought I'd try.
Please keep us updated, and as I said earlier, I'm happy to receive the magazines in with Pathfinder if that keeps costs down.
What crazy_cat said.
Thanks Lisa for the additional update - I really hope Paizo does not lose this big amount of money they invested into TPFG just a now - they really seem to be going down :( I would hate to see Paizo going into trouble because of this.
But I want to point to what Ikki said - can't you just allow us to DL the pdf-issue in the meantime? Or are there royalities to Wizards involved in that?
Had 148 a while now, but are missing 149 and 150. Hope to get them soon. Expecting pathfinder in August.......
Lincoln UK
hmm.. seems to me the deal went somewhat like this:
When signing a deal for distribution a contract is signed over a certain amount of time, and the money is handed over. No doubt the last one was to cover 150 as well.
Now they inform that they have some ..err problems.. and need money.
This is when alarm bells should be sounding, because:
At that point someone at paizo should have taken business management 203, and recognized a few core concepts:
1) Core business
2) Keeping a contract
1. Paizos core business is not money lending, but making magazines and to some extent retailing various gaming products that tie into the magazines.
If tpfg needs money, they should seek out a credit institution. If they are incapable of that, then obviously the situation will not improve by anyone else financing them.
2. Contracts are to be fulfilled, no matter what. Only a bankrupcy is an excuse not to. If theres a cash problem, borrow from a financial institution (like a bank).
If the "bank" wont let them, there is usually a pretty damn good reason... especially in these days of overtly easy credit!
see there you got 5.000 dollar worth of consultation +VAT :D
And with the added bonus of no 200 page report that basically says the same thing over and over a thousand times.. with a bunch of business numbers that never really showed anything that wasnt self evident from the start. lol
TPFG's web site isn't working at the moment - I hope that's a temporary thing, and not a sign of something more ominous...
Well, it's up and running again, but now they are experiencing "temporary problems" with their phone system.
We haven't heard from TPFG in the latter half of this week. The last we heard from them is that the magazines were shipping. We wired a very large sum of money to them two weeks ago so they could get the magazines shipped to you guys. A very large sum. And I had really hoped that by doing that, we would have resolved these issues and gotten you your magazines. TPFG told us that they shipped the magazines once they had our money, but it is pretty obvious that they haven't done so since nobody is receiving their magazines.We will continue to put pressure on TPFG to send out those issues. If I get to a point where I don't think they will fulfill their end of our contract, then we will ship the issues out from the US for customers who signed up through Paizo (unfortunately, we don't know who the customers are who signed up through TPFG). This will cost us another large sum of money, but it is the only right thing to do. Hopefully, TPFG will do the right thing since they now have our money and will ship the magazines out to you guys.
Trust me, as soon as I hear anything, I will post it here. Getting our European customers their final issues is a high priority for us here at Paizo.
-Lisa
That's really nasty and doesn't sound very promising. I hope you will not lose too much money on this (although all the work and pains you already invested cost you already enough). Just go and sort it out, I will wait and if necessary: pack my dungeons and dragons with my pathfinder#1 or even #2, then you will at least save on shipping.
That's really nasty and doesn't sound very promising. I hope you will not lose too much money on this (although all the work and pains you already invested cost you already enough). Just go and sort it out, I will wait and if necessary: pack my dungeons and dragons with my pathfinder#1 or even #2, then you will at least save on shipping.
Baldur bless you, well I'm not quite that patient myself tho ;)
Hmm paid for two last dungeons and dragons, not just once but twice (2*2*2=8).Go look up what the difference is between european orders and us orders in price, thats what the shipping and handling costs, and the sum sent to tpfg. Multiply by maybe 5000 customers?
Yeah that is A LOT OF MONEY, however you count it.
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Any chance of an official Paizo update on any progress this side of the weekend?I'm guessing that was a no.
Can somebody tell me at Paizo please tell me what Paizo is proposing to do to get me the 4 magazines that I'm due and which I have already paid for.
We haven't heard from TPFG in the latter half of this week. The last we heard from them is that the magazines were shipping. We wired a very large sum of money to them two weeks ago so they could get the magazines shipped to you guys. A very large sum. And I had really hoped that by doing that, we would have resolved these issues and gotten you your magazines. TPFG told us that they shipped the magazines once they had our money, but it is pretty obvious that they haven't done so since nobody is receiving their magazines.
We will continue to put pressure on TPFG to send out those issues. If I get to a point where I don't think they will fulfill their end of our contract, then we will ship the issues out from the US for customers who signed up through Paizo (unfortunately, we don't know who the customers are who signed up through TPFG). This will cost us another large sum of money, but it is the only right thing to do. Hopefully, TPFG will do the right thing since they now have our money and will ship the magazines out to you guys.
Trust me, as soon as I hear anything, I will post it here. Getting our European customers their final issues is a high priority for us here at Paizo.
-Lisa
That doesn't sound good... Have you considered pursuing legal action? This sounds like a clear-cut breach of contract to me, and with you lending them money to complete their contract... well, that makes you a creditor, and does give you some additional rights (I'm won't go further into which ones, my law classes at business school covered the Norwegian legal system, but I assume it is relatively similar).
I know this has been asked before but it's really starting to feel like we won't be seeing our magazines for quite some time, if at all. So any chance of a pdf of the issues. That way we'd at least get the content.
Just for information I e-mailed TPFG today to ask about the missing magazines, not really expecting a response, but thought I'd try.
I got this reply from TPFG today:
It has become apparent that the post office has lost one of the bags in which these magazines where sent out in. We are working on re-sending them at this time and hope that this issue will be resolved quickly
Can't say I believe them given they haven't apparently been responding to queries from Paizo, but they did respond which is a suprise in itself.
Guess I'm hoping they find that mailbag then, as I haven't got my mags (dungeon & dragon) yet either.
Oh well, I don't doubt that Paizo will make things right. I guess noone will miss TFPG though. :)
/Jonas
Just for information I e-mailed TPFG today to ask about the missing magazines, not really expecting a response, but thought I'd try.
I got this reply from TPFG today:
It has become apparent that the post office has lost one of the bags in which these magazines where sent out in. We are working on re-sending them at this time and hope that this issue will be resolved quickly
Can't say I believe them given they haven't apparently been responding to queries from Paizo, but they did respond which is a suprise in itself.
I agree with you since no one in the UK seems to have recieved the mag (excepting Aubrey as he was smart enough to order direct) this must have been a very large bag indeed.
Also, is it likely that they would have shipped both Dungeon and Dragon together? To know it is just "one" bag you would need to be able to track it or know which customers have not recieved the mag. since if the post office was tracking it it could by definition not be lost and since the place for games have no way of knowing who has not recieved the mag how can they afirm "one" bag lost.
Even allowing for these two highly improbable scenarios to be true this is the second month running the mag is late and follows on the back of excuses of Royal mail strike action, failure to pay by Paizo and complete silence.
As far as my subscription is concerned TPFG has one job. Mail me the magazine. To date they have blamed everyone but themselves for this not happening.
In short, fool me once shame on you, fool me twice...
If these were not the last two mags I would cancel the subsciption and back order all the issues direct from Paizo. Not only would this mean no involvement from TPFG but I would get the mags sooner, as Aubrey prooved.
Elcian
PS. Please note, as far as the information we have so far I am completely happy with Paizo's service and committment. Yet again the CEO is taking the time to write to us on a Saturday. If only TPFG could muster up a juniour during the week to give us an honest picture I might have more time for them.
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Just for information I e-mailed TPFG today to ask about the missing magazines, not really expecting a response, but thought I'd try.
I got this reply from TPFG today:
It has become apparent that the post office has lost one of the bags in which these magazines where sent out in. We are working on re-sending them at this time and hope that this issue will be resolved quickly
Can't say I believe them given they haven't apparently been responding to queries from Paizo, but they did respond which is a suprise in itself.
I'm thinking that instead they lost a whole truck since no one in or outside the UK has gotten their mag. Apparently we can wait another 2-3 weeks... I'm hoping Paizo won't let them get away with such an idiotic lie as a lost mailbag.....As of now I'm still standing by my earlier statements.
Honestly, if the mail in the UK would work that bad then I'm hoping you UK residents don't receive bills by mail like we do in Belgium.
My guess, they used the money from Paizo to pay one of their suppliers, creditors and are now hoping to receive fresh cash from sales in order to pay for postage so they can send out those magazines that are probably collecting dust on their shelves.
That doesn't sound good... Have you considered pursuing legal action? This sounds like a clear-cut breach of contract to me, and with you lending them money to complete their contract... well, that makes you a creditor, and does give you some additional rights (I'm won't go further into which ones, my law classes at business school covered the Norwegian legal system, but I assume it is relatively similar).
Both being based upon anglo-saxon tradition sure helps things further.
But still, as it sounds like a bankrupcy.. question being -is it worth it?Legal fees 15.000 +travel & hotels etc dagtraktamente (extra pay per day when travelling), another 5000-10,000 minimum (will take months & travelling back and forth half a dozen times). And how much can they really get out.. bankrupcies happen because the company has no cash.. possibly some goods, but likely far less than the extra costs incurred.
Another choise would be to hire a "trusted man", to act as a liason in their interest. That cuts down some costs, but not much. Still I suppose someone who knows the business has to take a look at the goods and make wise choises, so you dont end up with a thousand AD&D players handbooks :D -less than salesworthy.
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Both being based upon anglo-saxon tradition sure helps things further.
But still, as it sounds like a bankrupcy.. question being -is it worth it?Legal fees 15.000 +travel & hotels etc dagtraktamente (extra pay per day when travelling), another 5000-10,000 minimum (will take months & travelling back and forth half a dozen times). And how much can they really get out.. bankrupcies happen because the company has no cash.. possibly some goods, but likely far less than the extra costs incurred.
Another choise would be to hire a "trusted man", to act as a liason in their interest. That cuts down some costs, but not much. Still I suppose someone who knows the business has to take a look at the goods and make wise choises, so you dont end up with a thousand AD&D players handbooks :D -less than salesworthy.
Is it worth it? Well that depends, if the company is on the verge of liquidation it is generally better to pursue legal action sooner rather than later (a lot of doors close when the process has formally started), and given the circumstances I am almost positive that criminal violations have taken place. Funding operations at the expense of a creditor is illegal, and as they needed a loan (or premature payment for services from Paizo (it wasn't completely clear which)) it would seem the company has completely depleted its funds, that means the company is in essence bankrupt. To continue operations legally they would have to liquidate assets or seek aid from its investors, if they are in fact using their clients and other creditors to fund their operations they are clearly breaking the law.
If UK law is anything like Norwegian law then Paizo's position would be much stronger if they pursue legal action BEFORE the company declares bankruptcy and moves on to liquidation. Given the (I presume) large ammount of money involved I would recommend that Paizo at the very least consult with an attorney within the next few days.Since TPFG has problems with their phone connection it is a clear indicator of how dire their economic situation is (they probably haven't been able to pay their phone bills and the company discontinued serivice), time is of the essence...
Whatever you do, do it fast; that would be this yuppies advice to Paizo...
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Chief Technical Officer
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Just a couple of points:
1: We didn't loan money to TPFG. The money we wired them is to pay postage for the last few issues. We used to pay for that postage directly, but as I mentioned several pages back, the initial delay for these issues was due to the fact that our previous arrangement for paying for postage was no longer acceptable to someone (probably Royal Mail, but frankly, I don't have much to do with that, so I'm not really clear.)
2: Making it up to you by way of PDFs is a clever idea... but our contracts with Wizards require that issues be offsale for a year before we can publish them in PDF form, so I'm afraid that's a no-go.
okie, thanks boss ;)
I don't think they lost "one" bag - they lost them all. Or probably more correct, they didn't even send them yet!
Paizo, when are you going to more aggressive ways trying to get a reply from TPFG?
HOORAY!!!
Dungeon 149 and Dragon 358 both arrived in Cambridgeshire UK this morning!!!
The wait is finally over.
That was mean, you actually got my hopes up when I read this....
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I agree with you since no one in the UK seems to have recieved the mag (excepting Aubrey as he was smart enough to order direct) this must have been a very large bag indeed.
I was initially annoyed that my subscription was going to expire before the end of the mags' runs. Now I'm pathetically grateful. It's obviously a comfort that Paizo will get the mags to you come what may, but the delay must be SO ANNOYING!
Nothing yet in Germany regarding Dragon 358/359 or Dungeon 149/150. Stores in Germany however seem to be having at least Dungeon 149 for a few weeks, a friend of mine bought his issue three weeks ago.
Has anyone in Germany got one of these issues off his subscription at all?
Nothing yet in Germany regarding Dragon 358/359 or Dungeon 149/150. Stores in Germany however seem to be having at least Dungeon 149 for a few weeks, a friend of mine bought his issue three weeks ago.
Has anyone in Germany got one of these issues off his subscription at all?
Not me and not my GM either. Both of us still missing all 4 magazines.
That was mean, you actually got my hopes up when I read this....HOORAY!!!
Dungeon 149 and Dragon 358 both arrived in Cambridgeshire UK this morning!!!
The wait is finally over.
I was initially very excited and then very dissapointed when I read this post.
Kamelion has I believe gone on holiday, but don't worry, he's due a big slap for this "joke" at our next gaming session :)
Awaiting the last two issues 149 and 150 in Dublin too. I'll let people know if they show up...
Still nothing here in France...
That was mean, you actually got my hopes up when I read this....HOORAY!!!
Dungeon 149 and Dragon 358 both arrived in Cambridgeshire UK this morning!!!
The wait is finally over.
I was initially very excited and then very dissapointed when I read this post.
Kamelion has I believe gone on holiday, but don't worry, he's due a big slap for this "joke" at our next gaming session :)
..and in the treasure pile you find a pile of gems 65000gp, 200.000sp, 1.000.000cp, 30.000gp, a gem of seeing, ring of jumping and a staff of mag... grand yahoo and dance from the mage.. *no you didnt, sucker!!* -hahah!
Vic / Lisa - Many thanks for your continued updates on this but we don't seem to be making any progress.
Whatever the position with TPFG, at some point Paizo has to give this up as a bad job and ship replacement issues to subscribers. Could we be told when that point will be reached?
As I've posted on this and other threads I've always found the customer service received direct from Paizo to be outstanding and the fact that the two of you are regularly posting in these forums is a testament to that. Unfortunately, my contract is still with you and at some point someone in Paizo has to say enough is enough and honour your part of it. Could we please be told when that will be?
I agree with you since no one in the UK seems to have recieved the mag (excepting Aubrey as he was smart enough to order direct) this must have been a very large bag indeed.I was initially annoyed that my subscription was going to expire before the end of the mags' runs. Now I'm pathetically grateful. It's obviously a comfort that Paizo will get the mags to you come what may, but the delay must be SO ANNOYING!
Hi Aubrey,
It was very annoying, now I'm beginning to find the excuses from TPFG quite funny as they get more ridiculous by the day. The way I figure it, its not Paizo's fault and they will sort it for us eventually so at some point I will get a bumper feast of goodies.
Having said that it might lose its impact if we are halfway through AP2 in Pathfinder when it all arrives!
Elcian
PS you dont have some kind of ability to see into the future do you? If so can you recommend some numbers for the lottery?
Still nothing in Munich, Germany.
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My problem is even worse: I'll move to Austria in one week. If the issues don't arrive during this week, they are as good as lost.
I changed my shipment address for PF and GMM, but I can't change it for Dragon/ Dungeon. So I take it that all remaining Dungeon and Dragon issues of my subscription are lost?
Please give me some feedback.
Thanks in advance,
Günther
Can we get some sort of statement from Paizo as to what is being done to get the magazines we have all already paid for actually despatched?
Just a couple of points:
Making it up to you by way of PDFs is a clever idea... but our contracts with Wizards require that issues be offsale for a year before we can publish them in PDF form, so I'm afraid that's a no-go.
Heres a quick comment, how about not having those pdfs for sale, just for this little project?
Im sure wizards can be persuaded into that, as its not a breach of the spirit of the contract. And besides, there will be two more ready made pdfs they can start selling the moment they take over... theyll save some work ;)
Still waiting for my copies in Italy...
Without any news about nº 149-150 here in Spain!
Just an update. I talked with Charles Ryan from Esdevium, the UK distributor who has close ties to TPFG. I updated him on the issues and he said that he would personally help me get this settled quickly so our European subscribers can get their issues. More as it develops.
-Lisa
Thanks for the update. That sounds good.
Stefan
New gamemaster module arrived yesterday. Still no 149!
Thanks for looking into it Lisa.
Elcian
Just had Dunegon 149 and Dragon 358 in the post in the UK.
Really not joking, I have them in my hands.
Don't know what you said Lisa but it seems to have worked. Thanks
Things are starting to look up.
Post no. 150 and the magazines seem to be on their way.