Dispel Magic and Permanency


3.5/d20/OGL


If a charater with several permant spells is the target of a dispel magic is successfully dispeled, are all the spells lost or just supressed? And if they are lost should he pay the normal xp cost again if he choses to use permanency on the same spells again?

Oxi


The spells are lost. And yes, of course the character would have to pay the XP to permanency the spells again.


This is exactly why permanency isn't as common as some would initially think. It's a large investiture of gold and XP that could all be wiped away with one 3rd level spell.


No it should be they are supressed for the duration of the dispel magic. It should be treated the same any other magic item. Unless someone can point out rules showing that there is a difference. Permanecy is used to make magic items. So if on a person all spell are lost becuase of a dispel then all your magic items are forever dispelled.


Kuthax wrote:
No it should be they are supressed for the duration of the dispel magic. It should be treated the same any other magic item. Unless someone can point out rules showing that there is a difference. Permanecy is used to make magic items. So if on a person all spell are lost becuase of a dispel then all your magic items are forever dispelled.

Permanency is not longer a requirement for making magic items that's what the Craft feats are for. I think it all changed with 3.0/3.5 and the addition of feats. Overall the Permanency spell has been reduced in power with 3.0/3.5. The being dispellable part actually makes you think about what you want permanent instead of the old days where you had every spell you could permanently on you.


Kuthax wrote:
No it should be they are supressed for the duration of the dispel magic. It should be treated the same any other magic item. Unless someone can point out rules showing that there is a difference. Permanecy is used to make magic items. So if on a person all spell are lost becuase of a dispel then all your magic items are forever dispelled.

If your character has Permanent Magic Spells active and (s)he is hit with a Dispel Magic (or any of their derivatives), those spells are at risk of being permanently dispelled like any other active spell. They are even EASIER to dispel than some other spells if they were made permenent at a lower Caster Level than the PC is currently at.

Thats why a mages best friend is Ring of Counterspells and a Ring of Spell Turning. Being a mage is pretty darned expensive indeed!

Contributor

Kuthax wrote:
No it should be they are supressed for the duration of the dispel magic. It should be treated the same any other magic item. Unless someone can point out rules showing that there is a difference. Permanecy is used to make magic items. So if on a person all spell are lost becuase of a dispel then all your magic items are forever dispelled.

Here's how the SRD describes permanency. Note: the first part is with regards to personal spells such as detect magic, arcane sight, comprehend languages, etc. The second part is with regards to other spells cast on objects and other stuff.

SRD wrote:

You cast the desired spell and then follow it with the permanency spell. You cannot cast these spells on other creatures. This application of permanency can be dispelled only by a caster of higher level than you were when you cast the spell.

Spells cast on other creatures, objects, or locations (not on you) are vulnerable to dispel magic as normal.

To set things straight, yes, any permanent spell made so by the permanency spell can be dispelled (not suppressed). The one example requires the person attempting it be of a higher caster level than the caster level of the permanent spell. The second can be dispelled normally, even if the spellcaster is of a lower level the caster who made the spell effect permanent.


I think it's a neat and useful houserule to check the spells apart from the permanency when the character's hit by dispel magic. That way, the spell's only suppressed unless the permanency itself is dispelled. Makes the spell a little more appealing given the XP cost.


No, I think the spell is already appealing. No need to make it more so. If anything has detracted from the appeal of a Permanency spell, its the many expansion books that have come along since the three core books that have added Swift Actions and Persistent Spells to a mages repertoire.

Like most games (and in some cases real life), victory is influenced greatly by pacing/initiative. Permanency spells (as well as swift actions and persistent spells) reduce the risk a caster takes with an offensive action in the first round – which otherwise might have been spent defensively.


Just for the sake of arguing; supposed One houseruled that spells made Permanent were not affected by Dispel Magic.

In your opinion, should that affect the spell level and/or the xp and spell requirements for each spell?


Our house rules state that dispell magic only supresses a permanancy spell. A wizard spends way too much to have a bad guy just blink it away.

Scarab Sages

Lady Lena wrote:
Our house rules state that dispell magic only supresses a permanancy spell. A wizard spends way too much to have a bad guy just blink it away.

I follow the same house rule.

Thoth-Amon


Lady Lena wrote:
Our house rules state that dispell magic only supresses a permanancy spell. A wizard spends way too much to have a bad guy just blink it away.

I like this rule.

Having said that, What if One houseruled that spells made Permanent were not even suppressed by Dispel Magic?
That Permanency made the spell effect a part of the natural world that could only be unmade by a Wish, Miracle or Mordenkainen's Disjunction or something similarly powerful?
Should that affect the spell level and/or the xp and spell requirements for each spell?

Scarab Sages

Brianfowler713 wrote:
Lady Lena wrote:
Our house rules state that dispell magic only supresses a permanancy spell. A wizard spends way too much to have a bad guy just blink it away.

I like this rule.

Having said that, What if One houseruled that spells made Permanent were not even suppressed by Dispel Magic?
That Permanency made the spell effect a part of the natural world that could only be unmade by a Wish, Miracle or Mordenkainen's Disjunction or something similarly powerful?
Should that affect the spell level and/or the xp and spell requirements for each spell?

I'm okay with that. I mis-spoke earlier. In order to suppress spells one must call the specific spell to suppress. You just cant cast it and have all 5 permanency spells on the opposing wizard be suppressed. Greater Wish, Miracle or Mordenkainen's Disjunction could dispel permanency with a failed save w/a called shot(specified spell).

Dispell magic is a great spell, but lets not make it too great.
I realize many have different feelings on this. This is just a house rule that me and my friends have followed for years. It's not right, nor is it wrong. It just is and forever will be-permanencied.

Thoths mind will forever ooze genius and fears that his godlike intellect will never be understood. ***flexing tenticles and making cool gurgling sounds***

Thoth-Amon


My house rule for permanancy is that Dispel Magic can suppress it for 1d4 rounds, like it does to a magic item.

I always thought it cost too much to be easily dispellable.


Antoine7 wrote:

My house rule for permanancy is that Dispel Magic can suppress it for 1d4 rounds, like it does to a magic item.

I always thought it cost too much to be easily dispellable.

Ditto. Blowing all that XP only to have it wiped away by a spell that costs practically nothing to cast always seemed really lame to me.


My house rules say that spells are merely supressed - UNLESS the caster is of higher level than the enchanter, in which case there is a chance for the magic to be permanently dispelled. For example, if an item was crafted by a 12th Level wizard, and then a 15th Level sorcerer cast a Dispel Magic on it, the sorcerer would have to roll 11+ on 1d20 with a +3 modifier for the attempt to succeed. If they are of a lower level than the wizard, it simply fails. This supports the spirit of the rules, while giving both the wizard and the sorcerer a chance for success in the conflict.


Thoth-Amon the Mindflayerian wrote:

Thoths mind will forever ooze genius and fears that his godlike intellect will never be understood. ***flexing tenticles and making cool gurgling sounds***

Thoth-Amon

*smacks what remains of his leathery and cracked lips*

Just what I was in the mood for, calamari.

/harpoon

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