I'm interested in the Sin Magic, but it sems like a DM tool (and that's fine, I'm the DM), and I'm hoping you guys will line up an opposing set of Seven Virtues (e.g. Courage, Restraint, Generosity, Diligence, Mercy, Charity, and Humility) for players to use. Clearly divine casters could have fun, but arcanists could make use of the character hooks it would provide.
Here's hoping!
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... I'm hoping you guys will line up an opposing set of Seven Virtues (e.g. Courage, Restraint, Generosity, Diligence, Mercy, Charity, and Humility) for players to use
There seems to be some general misunderstanding that the Runelord's virtues are going to be the same as the Christian virtues. Not so. As far as I understand the sins are the Seven Sins of Magic, while the virtues are the Seven Virtues of Rule. I found these on another thread, but I'm not sure it's the official ones: Eager Striving, Well Deserved Rest, Fertility, Righteous Anger, Honest Pride, Abundance, Wealth. If these are the correct ones you'll notice that they are not opposites to the sins, like the Christian ones, but rather a different aspect.
EDIT: I finally found the quote I was looking for under the blog entry Raising the Runelords:
"At Thassilon's dawn, the Runelords held that wealth, fertility, honest pride, abundance, eager striving, righteous anger, and well-deserved rest were the seven virtues of rule—rewards that one could enjoy for being in a position of power."
Contributor
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I was thinking about something sort of similar last night at work, but took a different tack. I was aware of the seven virtues of rule, but I still though that it's likely that someone would espouse seven new virtues to counter the seven sins.
I came up with: Patience, Humility, Charity, Respect, Chastity, Dedication and Temperance, although I'm not altogether satisfied by these names.
So then I considered how these virtues could be likewise corrupted to give us seven more sins or perhaps the seven curses. Some of these are not so much sins as bad conditions, thus curses. I came up with Apathy, Shame, Poverty, Obsession (Blind Worship), Frigidity, Slavery, and Starvation. Again, I'd like to work on the names more, but I like the general idea.
I thought it might be fun to use these in an adventure after the PCs have gotten used to the idea of the seven sins and their origin. Then introduce a church or nation espousing the countering virtues. Then set up a situation where the PCs initially think they are dealing with sin magic, but they are actually facing the new corruption of the new virtues.
Not that I know how sin magic works yet...
Craig Shackleton,
The Rambling Scribe
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Given that the original seven virtues are largely remembered only in there corrupted forms as the seven sins, I could see new counter virtues being created.
Using the seven virtues from Dragon, the virtues and the sin each counters are:
Courage - Lust
Restraint - Gluttony
Generosity - Greed
Diligence - Sloth
Mercy - Wrath
Charity - Envy
Humility - Pride
Going from there, I came up with this layout for mages following the new virtues.
Restraint
Focused on defense and the protection of others.
Specialty: abjuration
Prohibited Schools: conjuration and necromancy
Charity
Focused on calling forth aid or creating objects to help others.
Specialty: conjuration
Prohibited Schools: enchantment and illusion
Mercy
Focused on using magic to end conflicts without death when possible.
Specialty: enchantment
Prohibited Schools: evocation and necromancy
Courage
Focused on the use of magic to channel destructive forces, and the responsibility that comes with such power.
Specialty: evocation
Prohibited Schools: conjuration and enchantment
Humility
Focused on using magic to teach by exposing falsehoods and deception.
Specialty: divination
Prohibited Schools: illusion
Diligence
Focused on the careful and deliberate use of magic to overcome problems through distraction, evasion, and misdirection.
Specialty: illusion
Prohibited Schools: enchantment and necromancy
Generosity
Focused on the use of magic to enhance allies and to transform objects to assist others.
Specialty: transmutation
Prohibited Schools: enchantment and illusion
"At Thassilon's dawn, the Runelords held that wealth, fertility, honest pride, abundance, eager striving, righteous anger, and well-deserved rest were the seven virtues of rule—rewards that one could enjoy for being in a position of power."
I missed that in a blog entry. Unless the Runelords are supposed to be idealized benevolent rulers, that these are more of an ideological justification for tyranny and feudalism--neither of which are a good thing. I'm hoing for something like what Thraxus posted above.
Unless the Runelords are supposed to be idealized benevolent rulers, that these are more of an ideological justification for tyranny and feudalism--neither of which are a good thing.
Well, the Runelords aren't exactly good guys, are they? ;) Anyway, the Seven Virtues of Rule and the Seven Sins of Magic are specific to the Runelords, and it doesn't seem like the other cultures of Varisia have adopted them.
If memory serves, didn't Dragon recently have the 7 Virtues as clerical domains?
Perhaps that is how they may incorporate them into Pathfinder.
*shrug*
Just a thought...as you were :oP
courage/lust; that is just silly. courage/cowardice maybe; courage is no counter to lust; how about purity or abstinance.
courage/lust; that is just silly. courage/cowardice maybe; courage is no counter to lust; how about purity or abstinance.
I took the list of seven virtues from Dragon. I then did a little research to see what sins they typically counter. Courage is not usually listed as a virtue.
The typical counter to lust is Chastity. Wikipedia defines the virtue of Chastity as "Courage and boldness. Embracing of moral wholesomeness and achieving purity of thought through education and betterment."
So I applied courage as the counter to lust.
Let me retract my last statement. I just realized I had actually used the list Michael Brisbois mentioned and not the list from Dragon.
The Dragon Magazine List is:
Chastity - Lust
Temperance - Gluttony
Generosity - Greed
Zeal - Sloth
Patience - Wrath
Charity - Envy
Humility - Pride
This is what I get for not double checking myself on my original post. Still, the breakdown is roughly the same and works as well.
This was a supreme example of the Magical sin of gluttony.