gaborg |
I got this urge to make this diagram happen and tried Google Sketchup. It is the thing i say! I just dont know how to use it properly. I have put in the graphics from the magazine and started drawing around the corners of the image. I could kinda make the outline but have no idea how to fill the whole thing. Maybe i will spend some more time with it but if anyone has more skills in this then she or he could give it a try.
Here is where i am at at the moment: Outline of a ship from the magazine
gaborg |
I have put up the Google Sketchup files here.
Maybe somebody has the skills and the time to make it look good.
gaborg |
I have put up the Google Sketchup files here.
Maybe somebody has the skills and the time to make it look good.
Updated it with three gigantic trees. Looks way better!
carborundum RPG Superstar 2010 Top 32 |
carborundum RPG Superstar 2010 Top 32 |
gaborg |
That's the ticket!
The first one only had one file visible.I'm not sure if I can do much with it, but I was dying to see how you'd got it this far :)
I'll have to try and find some time in the weekend. Thanks for going to the trouble of uploading it again!
Updated it with huge Crimson Fleet flag streched between two trees.
gaborg |
I just hope all your great work pays off and is appreciated by your players. Me, I could never be patient enough to come up with what you are undertaking.
Well thanks! My players always appreciate the extra content i make for them. And regarding time: it didnt take more then 3 hours altogether. The trees were on the net so thats not my merit.
I have also uploaded an updated video as well for your viewing pleasure. (80 Mb avi) Enjoy!
Curaigh |
I finally got that to open Gaborg-Nice Job! The motion does help set the relation from one to the next. Better than my pics did. I noticed on my model it also helped to 'spin' to view various angles, but I did not want to add that to the web. One thing I found (and I am wondering if you did as well) is that if each of these ships has a mast it would touch (or nearly touch) the ship above. Assuming ships are not the flat bottom of the map. Of course the masts may not be there, but they are on the map so I put them in (with toothpicks :). If so, (and I applaud them for it) my monk and rogue will totally skip the bridges/ladders.
I am still waiting/hoping to see Black Bard's pics...
carborundum RPG Superstar 2010 Top 32 |
Blue_eyed_paladin |
Sol |
I was searching through some fantasy artwork over at Deviantart.com and found this image that I think is almost eerily close to the fortress of old Cold Capt'n.
http://targete.deviantart.com/art/The-Nightmare-Academy-61261092
With just a little photoshop work, this could easily be used as a image for players to reference.
Curaigh |
I was searching through some fantasy artwork over at Deviantart.com and found this image that I think is almost eerily close to the fortress of old Cold Capt'n.
http://targete.deviantart.com/art/The-Nightmare-Academy-61261092
With just a little photoshop work, this could easily be used as a image for players to reference.
linkified That is cool.
Still waiting on the Black Bard of course-wondering if you are done with it. Maybe I will pull the 'it's Tuesday I have decided I would remind you' trick.
ronin |
I am debating on how to run the combat on the wreck and would like opinions of an idea I had before I proceed. The only real drawback to what I am thinking is that it will not be in color because it increases the cost by about 10-12 times the amount of black and white. With that in mind, here goes.
It will cost $9.00 for Kinkos will print a 36"x48" copy of the wreck. I would center this on the main tree trunk and this would be the "ground" level of the map. I would get the upper levels printed out as well so I could glue them on foamboard. I would then assemble them similar to how Curaigh had done except I'd be going for a "scale" version to run the combat on. I figure all I'd need would be some branches and glue to make it work.
Unfortunately the color version is $10.00 a square foot which means instead of $9.00 it would be $120.00! That's just a bit more than I am willing to spend:) I think it would be awesome to have a 3D battlemap for this battle I'm just not sure how it would end up in black and white. I think the total cost would come in around $30.00, maybe $40.00 tops.
I'd also need one more thing- consent from the publishers to use their copyrighted work.
So do you think it would be worth it?
Pygon |
I believe The Black Bard made an attempt at a scale Wreck for miniature play. Unfortunately he has yet to grace us with photos!
I was planning to run ST digitally online (someday), so I was just going to use the supplement maps with added lines to make it clear to the players where the decks are in relation to each other (and try to clean out the marked rotten and trapped areas of the docks, whoops). I might rearrange them more logically as well (putting lower decks underneath the higher ones, etc.).
Once you have a good 3D representation to understand the spacing, it becomes clearer how the Captain could swoop down to attack unsuspecting PC's. The fact that the whole place pretty much goes after the PC's once the alarm goes off will make this a very, very hard fight indeed.
If you want to save money, you could just draw out the decks on some large battlemat grid, cut them out and attach them to display board.
ronin |
If you do it in 3D, how do handle flying creatures in mid-air?
We use what we refer to as "flight" dice. It is basically a large d6 just over an inch in size. We place the number facing up that equals the height we are at currently. Generally each number stands for either a 5' or 10' increment depending on how high we are at the time. In this particular battle each number would probably mean a 5' increment so if the number 6 was up you'd be at 30' high. We have alot of these d6s so its easy to use multiple dice when needed.
We've been using them for years and it works well for us. I actually bought some of the markers by Alea Tools (sp?) to mark flight, invisibilty, displaced, etc. but we can't seem to get away from the flight dice for some reason. I think it must be the 3D aspect. Seeing flying PCs up off the battlegrid seems to add more realism for our group.
Curaigh |
We use what we refer to as "flight" dice. It is basically a large d6 just over an inch in size. We place the number facing up that equals the height we are at currently. Generally each number stands for either a 5' or 10' increment depending on how high we are at the time. In this particular battle each number would probably mean a 5' increment so if the number 6 was up you'd be at 30' high. We have alot of these d6s so its easy to use multiple dice when needed.We've been using them for years and it works well for us. I actually bought some of the markers by Alea Tools (sp?) to mark flight, invisibilty, displaced, etc. but we can't seem to get away from the flight dice for some reason. I think it must be the 3D aspect. Seeing flying PCs up off the battlegrid seems to add more realism for our group.
We use a d10, but I also have a number of flight bases from MageKnight. Because MK had a bigger base, the clear column can fit over a number of other minis in case person a is right over person b. but yeah the 3D aspect is cool. In the case of a person flying off the map (say 10 from the edge of the top ship), you will have to use the d10 to mark how far from the edge they are (or expand you map out side the ships mark).
Flying with this 'dungeon' seems something any reasonable party will explore and it could mean meeting the big guy before his minions. Certainly all the Lemorians have wings too. At the least I expect my rogue and monk to climb the tree rather than fight their way through each level/ship.
In answer to your other question, I would go b&w and use recycled cardboard instead of foamboard. Better for the environment and not as expensive. Color it yourself. I am poor and cheap though ymmv. I can give you more detail on what I would have done differently, but I think the real sticks added a lot of flavor. I also have a lot of flocking and thought about adding that to my mini map for color, but that would not be feasible on the bigger scale. I think if you only use it for your personal game, photocopies are OK.
I will now add my usual call for Black Bard's photos (I can even put them on my sight if'n you need a host place. O:)
ronin |
I have decided to build the wreck. I have printed out a 36" x 48" section of the map on page 63 to use as the "ground" level. The bottom right corner of this basically wraps around the tree at that corner of the map. From there it is 18 grid squares to the left and 24 grid squares towards the top. I was struggling with the cost (I am fairly cheap as well) of printing out the remaining ships in minis scale when something occurred to me-
I built the Sea Maiden from World Works Games.
I had all of the ship diagrams I could need. I started printing sections of the Maiden and piecing them together. I work for a beverage sales company so I was able to get some pole signs (those large signs outside of gas stations with sales prices on them) from work that were destined for the garbage anyway. I used these to glue the flooring sections on to and it turns out they appear to be a bit more rigid than the foam board I planned to use. After the floor sections are down I have been drawing the walls and such with king size Sharpie, then I just trim around the edges to finish each piece.
So far I have built all of the top deck pieces and all that remains are the below deck areas. I plan to build these so when the group decides to go below I'll just pull out the appropriate map. Knowing my group they'll split up so it should be fun. If I have time before I run this session I'll print some hull sections and attach them to the ships that have areas below to add some depth to them, maybe some masts as well. I do have the rest of the week off so hopefully I can swing it.
For the trees on the map I plan to go grab some branches outside that are the right size. It looks like something around 6" in diameter and at least 24" in length will work nicely for the largest tree. One thing I am unsure about is the rope ladders/ bridges that connect everything together. I have rigging that I can print out from the Sea Maiden pdf but they are very narrow at one end and wide at the other so I think it may not work as well as I'd like. If anyone has any suggestions I'd like to hear them. I wouldn't be opposed to spending some money if needed since so far the project has only cost me $9.50 for the base map.
I still haven't quite figured out how I'll attach the ships to the tree either. I'm thinking of cutting the holes in the ship flooring once I find a good size branch and then sliding the flooring down the branches length from one end until it is in the right spot. Once there I want to hold it in place somehow, maybe attaching something to the branch for the map to rest on? The pole sign material seems stiff enough to support the weight of it's own length plus whatever minis are on it as long as it is supported well near the tree base. I'd be interested in any thoughts on that as well.
I plan to take pictures of this thing. What would everyone like to see (if anything)? Finished product only or would you like to see the floor plans before I assemble them? I don't have a place to host pictures but I do have a digital camera. Just post your thoughts and I'll try to get the pictures everyone wants to see. I can also post some pictures of the Sea Maiden I built if anyone is interested but the World Works Games website has them up already. I am glad I built it, we are getting a ton of use out of the thing.
I think that's about it. Time to get back to work so I can get this finished.
ronin |
According to the map of the Wreck from the ground level there are only two trees supporting the structure. The Glad appears to be supported by a third tree that looks like it would be off of the ground level map a bit to the east.
Am I reading this correctly?
Also, does anyone have any suggestions for the rope ladders/ bridges that run all along this thing? So far I am not coming up with a good idea for this area of the build.
Thanks!
Lord Alarik The Fool |
I too will be building this over the holidays during our holiday gaming break. I was thinking canvas strapping from army surplus threaded with wire for support for the walkways. hmmm... that would mean the minis would slide down pretty easy and be hard to keep them in place.
Hmm... I wonder if Legos and superglue would be too geeky?
Pygon |
According to the map of the Wreck from the ground level there are only two trees supporting the structure. The Glad appears to be supported by a third tree that looks like it would be off of the ground level map a bit to the east.
Am I reading this correctly?
Here's a quick mock-up I did of The Wreck. There is indeed a tree off the edge of the map.
Curaigh |
According to the map of the Wreck from the ground level there are only two trees supporting the structure. The Glad appears to be supported by a third tree that looks like it would be off of the ground level map a bit to the east.
Am I reading this correctly?
Also, does anyone have any suggestions for the rope ladders/ bridges that run all along this thing? So far I am not coming up with a good idea for this area of the build.
Thanks!
Yes there is a third tree (or at least that is how I read it) and you can see that it is off the map in mine as well. I used kite string for my rope bridges, but they are not to scale. a suggestion is use hemp string (a buck a roll maybe) attached in a V shape. (V shaped cardboard at either end of the bridge?) If you want it to hold minis then I would cut a strip for the bottom from the same stuff you are using for the rest of the ship, but make it about 75% narrower than scale. Wrap it with the same string (at the five foot squares?) to keep the minis from sliding down the bridge. That would be the bottom of the V and two hemp ropes at each of the top points. If you want a more plank type rope bridge, parallel two strings and attach toothpicks or smaller twigs (like the ties of a railroad). Hmm it has been a busy day so if those images are not clear let me know and I will try again.
A hole to put the stick through is what I started with, but since the twigs were irregular in shape I could not easily move them through the holes. I ended up cutting a slit to the nearest side, and sliding the stick in that way (by turning the base sideways). I decided I would simply use a smaller/straiter stick next time, but since you are going for the bigger scale I think you will lose a lot of the effect to not use a branch ymmv. hot glue was enough to support mine, but you will probably need brackets. oh yeah, I marked the 5 foot squares up the stick by simply laying it on my enlarged map.
If you do not find a place to post your pics I offer my page (there will be pics right?). Right Black Bard ?? (same offer if you need it :)
Richard Pett Contributor |
ronin wrote:Here's a quick mock-up I did of The Wreck. There is indeed a tree off the edge of the map.According to the map of the Wreck from the ground level there are only two trees supporting the structure. The Glad appears to be supported by a third tree that looks like it would be off of the ground level map a bit to the east.
Am I reading this correctly?
Splendid stuff!
Rich
Pygon |
See, this is what happens when I get curious about what something will look like and people are expressing interest.
Just for kicks, again, I loaded up the map for the Crimson Fleet cove, picked out a viewpoint and angle, and "manually" plotted the position of buildings, docks, etc. in CorelDraw using 3D drafting techniques, and this is what I got:
I have yet to dress it up with the boats and the rest of the dock posts.
It didn't showcase the Wreck the way I was hoping it would (it's a little small in the background, and the parts on the other two trees are hidden), but it still provides an interesting initial view of the cove for the players, assuming they come in through the main gate (the viewpoint is just north of it).
Feedback so far: Colors too bright and cheery, and, according to a young reviewer, looks like something out of Family Guy :)
ronin |
I have made some progress. I have all of the ship diagrams cut out to scale with any rooms (the below deck areas) drawn out and ready to go. I found two appropriately sized (at least they seem to be) tree branches for the main supports. One of them splits into a "Y" which will serve to hold area I4.
I have cut some slots for The Two Faced Wretch and The Anger (I thought it would help hold them in place better). I also purchased some 8" lag bolts with an eyelet at the end to help support each main deck. I drilled a pilot hole for each and screwed them into the branches and have done a "mock" set up. So far so good.
Next I plan to take a sheet of clear plexiglass (36" x 48") that I have and mount the two branches on it in an upright position. This should stabilize the entire structure fairly well (the main trunk stands up on it's own but isn't real stable). I will place this on top of the 36" x 48" map I had printed at Kinkos and then start the final assembly process.
Once I get this done I'll print up some hull sides and attach them to the ships that have a deck below. I also want to print some of the "rib like" hull sides for the top deck since it is described that way. I am going to try and place both decks of the Glad in the model as well. I did figure out something for the rope ladders/ bridges finally. I am going to use train tracks from an electric train set my friend has at home. It looks like it will work well. I also have made some masts and will add them as needed.
I intend to take some pictures before starting the final assembly and then again once it is finished. The battle will be this coming weekend but I should be able to finish by then easily. If I come across any other issues I'll post them.
BTW Pygon, the image you posted looks good. It would be nice to be able to rotate it but I don't know if that is even possible with the program you used. I forgot about all those hanging cages until I saw them in the picture. Good job!
ronin |
More progress to report. I have started the final assembly. So far I have attached the branches to the plexiglass in the upright position. They aren't as stable as I thought they'd be because the plexiglass is a little too thin plus I can't countersink the screws. I think it will work though, they just sway a bit more then I'd like is all.
I placed all of the decks on the branches. I added six masts on the different ships according to the diagram and that's when I called it a night. I took about 8-10 pictures so far. A few of the different parts before putting them together and about 5-6 after I assembled everything.
I plan to print out some hull sides to attach to the two ships that have areas below. I still need to pick up the railroad track pieces from my friend and place them on as the various rope ladders/ bridges. I think I'll be done in about an hour or two and then I'll take some more pictures with some of the minis in place.
All in all things are going well. I'll have to let you know how having the scale version helped the session afterwards. I think the answer seems obvious but we'll see.
ronin |
All finished! We used the mini scale version this past session and it worked really well. I am glad I made the effort to build it, the look of "holy crap" on the players faces when they saw it was well worth it. We have at least one more session to use it depending on how the remainder of the battle turns out.
I was able to get the hull sides on the two decks that have areas below. The railroad tracks for ladders turned out well, they even supported the minis. I held it all together using stick pins and it held together well. We had alot of fun during the session. I wish we could have a mini scale version for our battles every week!
I took some pictures and plan to take a few more. We have a website we use to talk about the game between sessions so I am hoping to post them there. If I can't for some reason would anyone be interested in hosting them? Once I get them up I'll provide some links so everyone can check it out.
ronin |
We finished up the battle last night. It turned out to be a great session for the party. They defeated the Crimson Fleet, grabbed a boatload of treasure, and then totally demolished the place with some control weather type spells.
I would highly suggest to anyone who has the ability to build a mini scale version of the wreck to do so, it made a huge difference in the sessions in which we used it. It took some time but it was well worth it.
The person in our group who runs the website that has our game's messageboard on it is going to put together a picture gallery this week. Once he is done I'll post the pictures I took. I'll try to find a way to take a short walk around of the build as well (my camera doesn't have video capabilty).
Once they are ready I'll post some links.
ronin |
The gallery is up and operational. I am told it isn't finished quite yet, I think some cosmetic things are going to be added. Below is the link to the site, just hit the gallery tab at the top right of the page.
Go to Gaming Zone Boards.
A few things of note about how the final version turned out.
Area I4 isn't as isolated as the diagram shows. I found a branch that was shaped in a "Y" that seemed to fit well so I went with it.
The decks are as close as I could get to scale in height as well as size. The Anger is 8" off the ground, The Baeldictum is 20" off the ground, etc. The exceptions to these are the width of the Anger (it's a little wider than the diagram) and area I2 (it's a little higher than 24").
The railroad tracks I used for the ladders/ bridges are 8" in length. As you'll see I used more than one in a few instances.
The ladder from G2 to H1 turned out to be more like a bridge. The mast on G2 is 10' high and the ladder goes from there to H1 which is 30' higher. It had to travel about 80'-90' to get there however so a bridge seemed like a better choice.
If someone had a larger surface they could have another section of the ground level printed for fairly cheap (another $9.50). This didn't matter much in play however, we just kept track of how far a character was off of the map.
I did the Glad so that we could reach thru and place minis inside. I did inform the group of the outer walls and where they were (basically where ever the top deck was- the hull was attached to the lower deck as well).
I have between 25-30 pictures, so far I have posted 9-10. The remaining pictures are about 1/2 finished and 1/2 "in progress" pictures. I also have about 4-5 pictures from a "side view". If anyone is interested in seeing those let me know and I'll put them up as well.
Once you get a chance to check them out let me know what you think.
carborundum RPG Superstar 2010 Top 32 |
ronin |
What scale did you guys use?
I have printed it out and and started glueing when I noticed that the printed scale is 10'/inch. Wow, it is big enough already. Has anyone's build been at the standard 5' per inch for mini's?
The build you see in the link is at the standard 5' per inch.
And you are correct, it's fairly large.