You take the Tureen and put it in the Marzipan, add propensity.


Dungeon Magazine General Discussion

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First off, I never demanded "that everyone else stop using them" so don't go putting words in my mouth. Also, I am not saying that these words should be banned from adventures, as who am I to tell the editors and writers what to write. What I think doesn't work is using these words when roleplaying an npc who's talking to the pcs. This trully is ridiculous. As much as you like the "delights of English" or not people do use the "simplified English" when talking to each other.


The Jade wrote:

Well since Lawnmower Man/Matrix uploads aren't the order of the day I'm afraid it's still going to be symbol recognition for the time being. I myself wouldn't mind slamming techincal information into my brain in a modified tanning bed.

I certainly read things besides Dungeon as well, though truth be told, I spend most of my time writing, not reading. I'd say I understand at least 70 percent of the words I use. The remainder are just fancy guesses and I'm hoping no one out there will notice or call me on them.

Tech-in-cal (adj)1. Of, relating to, or derived from techinque.

2. Havnig special skill or practical knowledge especially ni a mechaincal or scientific field: a techincal adviser.

3. A swedish fig tart.

Oh wait. #3 was Paizo. ;-P


Thanis Kartaleon wrote:

Tech-in-cal (adj)1. Of, relating to, or derived from techinque.

2. Havnig special skill or practical knowledge especially ni a mechaincal or scientific field: a techincal adviser.

3. A swedish fig tart.

Oh wait. #3 was Paizo. ;-P

Now that you've made a whole thing i certainly can't go back and correct it. lol

Good eye and great memory, Thanis.

I wanted to offer up something helpful for your summoning question but your comprehension of the rules is always so many lightyears ahead of mine all I can do is stand back and marvel. You're a machine, bay-bee.


Aubrey the Malformed wrote:


I am wondering if you read books and stuff. You are entitled to your tastes, but it seems that you want to defend ignorance as a good thing. Good vocabulary is a handy tool. Complaining about it being "complicated" just seems like an unwillingness to improve yourself.

No need to try to offend him by trying to say that he doesn't read books or has any culture. For all of you who have been posting the definitons of tureen and marzipan, and arguing that we are are defending an ignorant point of view, you really don't seem to understand what the thread is about. The focus is not on the language itself, but how it affects the game.


HELLFINGER wrote:
What I think doesn't work is using these words when roleplaying an npc who's talking to the pcs. This trully is ridiculous. As much as you like the "delights of English" or not people do use the "simplified English" when talking to each other.

Some of them do, others are more literate and, playing RPGs, talk more like characters in fantasy fiction. It isn't ridiculous.


Nicolas Logue wrote:
Zherog wrote:

Wow, Nic. I hope a kid named Johnny never asks that question. He's gonna be really confused why you keep calling him Suzy.

:D

lol!

Or I could shape the rest of his life for him by steadfastedly refusing to call him anything but Suzy. ;-)

You know, that's exactly how Rainer Maria Rilke's mom got him started. See where it got him? I think "Suzy's" literary career is off to a bright future already.

Liberty's Edge

HELLFINGER wrote:
Aubrey the Malformed wrote:


I am wondering if you read books and stuff. You are entitled to your tastes, but it seems that you want to defend ignorance as a good thing. Good vocabulary is a handy tool. Complaining about it being "complicated" just seems like an unwillingness to improve yourself.

No need to try to offend him by trying to say that he doesn't read books or has any culture. For all of you who have been posting the definitons of tureen and marzipan, and arguing that we are are defending an ignorant point of view, you really don't seem to understand what the thread is about. The focus is not on the language itself, but how it affects the game.

Okay, granted that. Here's how it affects the game.

The pc's are for the most part rustics, and now they are thrown into the world of the cultured set. They have to figure out what to wear, how to wear it, which fork to use, and how to comport themselves in a new and alien world, and a dangerous one at that.
The use of exotic description only enhances the unease they are supposed to be feeling. They are out of their element. They are bulls in a glass house. Calling the marzipan sculpture of Zeech a "caramel candy sculpture" doesn't exactly help evoke that tension.
I thoroughly understand the loathing summoned by needless putting on of airs, but in this case I think it's more a case of subtle craft.


Heathansson wrote:

Okay, granted that. Here's how it affects the game.

The pc's are for the most part rustics, and now they are thrown into the world of the cultured set. They have to figure out what to wear, how to wear it, which fork to use, and how to comport themselves in a new and alien world, and a dangerous one at that.
The use of exotic description only enhances the unease they are supposed to be feeling. They are out of their element. They are bulls in a glass house. Calling the marzipan sculpture of Zeech a "caramel candy sculpture" doesn't exactly help evoke that tension.
I thoroughly understand the loathing summoned by needless putting on of airs, but in this case I think it's more a case of subtle craft.

Deftly arrowed that to the bullseye.

But really, some of us put on airs because we can't afford store bought clothes. We didn't choose nudity.


Heathansson wrote:

Okay, granted that. Here's how it affects the game.

The pc's are for the most part rustics, and now they are thrown into the world of the cultured set. They have to figure out what to wear, how to wear it, which fork to use, and how to comport themselves in a new and alien world, and a dangerous one at that.
The use of exotic description only enhances the unease they are supposed to be feeling. They are out of their element. They are bulls in a glass house. Calling the marzipan sculpture of Zeech a "caramel candy sculpture" doesn't exactly help evoke that tension.
I thoroughly understand the loathing summoned by needless putting on of airs, but in this case I think it's more a case of subtle craft.

Understood. In theory I think you are spot on, and maybe even in your campaign it is like that. In my campaign the players see it like this.

You noticed some worms about 1.5 years ago in player time and 6 months ago in character time. You have been trying to stop these worms from being a big problem, you're not sure if they ever will be but maybe they will. Every time we meet at the start of the adventure I remind you in huge monologues, that basically the worms are bad and you gotta do X to stop them. Needless to say you are getting kinda of bored of this and are shutting the off switch when I am reading this background stuff because you know what it means, worms are bad so you must do X. You go to a dinner because Tenser says you should, sounds cool. At the dinner you hear a description of some stuff, but the odd thing is you have never heard of half the stuff in the sentences. No big deal, just ignore it and wait for the NPC to tell you what to do next. You don't say, "whats a Tureen?" because you are pretty sure you don't need to know what a Tureen is to level. You happen to be right, it has nothing to do with the challenge of the adventure (besides the vocabulary challenge). The DM finishes the description you didn't understand and we move on to the next challenge, a contest of braggery.


What's braggery? ;)


Braggery is what comes immediately after the section I was referring to in Prince of Redhand. It is part of the adventure.

Contributor

hanexs wrote:

Oh and Richard I loved the adventure! It was a breath of fresh air in my campaign. My players all left amazed. One of my players that always plays a barbarian said to me, "You know, I realize that there is more to D&D then just fighting and dungeons....." That was priceless.

I also loved 99% of the words in it :) j/k

Huzzah! I have a very soft spot for Redhand - especially as Logue hates it so much:) You know, I keep putting the word 'M'naaaaaaaaaaaarr' in my submissions (as in 'in this room is a roper, it says M'naaaaaaaaaaaaaaar, flexes its tentacles, stares balefully, says M'naaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaarrr once more, and attacks' - god knows where the word came from) and that cad Jacobs keeps taking it out - every time a monster appears in our group the word M'naaaaarr is spoken as loudly as possible:)

More M'naaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaars in submissions! You with me Greer, Vaughn, Little Goule - sorry, Logue?...He can only keep taking them out for so long - messageboard power rules!

Rich


Well, I'm gonna charm in here waaaay down the line of posts. Hopefully the discussion hasn't petered out yet... I'm gonna be honest, I stopped reading after the last page, but I thought I'd throw in my own opinion anyways. ;)

I love the fact that the magazines have taught me oodles of new words, but it really does seem to ruin the atmosphere of the roleplaying when your DM uses words in the read-aloud text that he would never use any other time, and may not even know the meaning of. That joke before with the conversation between Ed and Eric (which was hilarious by the way) would be a perfect example of the confusion that obscure words can cause between players and the DM.

Perhaps the authors of adventures in Dungeon magazine should restrict the use of ginormous words to the text of the adventure, which the DM can read (and look up) on his own time. I'm not advocating getting rid of the words entirely (that would be heresy!) but I agree that they can sometimes seem like purple prose when used in the read-aloud text.

For what it's worth, I had no idea what a tureen or marzipan were until I read this post. I don't really consider myself stupid (some may disagree), and I find it hard to imagine that I am one of only a few Dungeon readers who don't know the meaning of relatively obscure words. But then again, I am only 21. Who knows?


The Jade wrote:
What's braggery? ;)

Oh, I get it. Took me a while :)


David E wrote:
For what it's worth, I had no idea what a tureen or marzipan were until I read this post. I don't really consider myself stupid (some may disagree), and I find it hard to imagine that I am one of only a few Dungeon readers who don't know the meaning of relatively obscure words. But then again, I am only 21. Who knows?

It's not stupidity to not know a word. It's ignorance. Why it was only yesterday that it finally dawned on me what a "late model" car was. I've gone through this entire life just letting that one slide by every time I heard it without giving it enough worry over to bother learning. Am I stupid? Sure I am. But not because of not knowing the phrase.

Stupidity is a term generally applied to ignorance coupled with forgetfulness and/or clumsinesss which can altogether cause you to screw up other people's lives and stand there smiling like a buck tooth idiot with a concussion while people scream and cry all around you... like that time I burned down an orphanage by trying to rewire it with absolutely no training, 100 feet of fresh wire, and a keg of gunpowder.

You really need to study your craft before you just jump out there and start changing outlets with no insurance, ya know?

Grand Lodge

Stebehil wrote:
Bocklin wrote:
Aubrey the Malformed wrote:
Bocklin wrote:
PS: no marzipan in the US? Boy that should be a tough life...
They truly live a benighted life across the Atlantic.

Do you think they don't have "toad in the hole" or "spotted dicks" either???

Bocklin

Em... should I recognize these (as a fellow european:-)) ?

Stefan

Well... these are British concoctions, and are thus "food" only in the loosest sense of the term. However, as a public service, here we go:

Bubble-and-squeak isn’t just a fancy diaper bag brand, but also an iconic British food item! It looks like this; recipe can be found here.
Recipe for spotted dick can be found here, a description is here. Note that the reviewer only gave it one star for weirdness!
Finally, here’s British food deity Delia Smith’s version of toad in the hole .

Still hungry? Enjoy!!

Contributor

Vattnisse wrote:


Well... these are British concoctions, and are thus "food" only in the loosest sense of the term. However, as a public service, here we go:

Bubble-and-squeak isn’t just a fancy diaper bag brand, but also an iconic British food item! It looks like this; recipe can be found here.
Recipe for spotted dick can be found here, a description is here. Note that the reviewer only gave it one star for weirdness!
Finally, here’s British food deity Delia Smith’s version of toad in the hole .

Still hungry? Enjoy!!

That makes me feel a triffle peckish...


Vattnisse wrote:


Still hungry? Enjoy!!

No, thanks...

Is it just me or did the pics did not look appetizing at all?
English cuisine is not noted to be "light", IIRC. The pics reflect this, I think. I still remember the food we had while touring scotland - now I know why the scottish had to make whisky their national drink...

sorry to ruffle some british feathers :-)

Stefan

Contributor

Stebehil wrote:

now I know why the scottish had to make whisky their national drink...

sorry to ruffle some british feathers :-)

Stefan

What! Someone who doesn't relish sheeps stomach stuffed with meat and barley...blimmey...it's fantastic!

Contributor

"The difference between the almost right word & the right word is really a large matter--it's the difference between the lightning bug and the lightning." -- Mark Twain

There's another quote I keep in mind when writing, though I don't remember where I heard it: Someone accused a writer: "You write like you think you're smart." The writer replied: "No, I write like I think my readers are smart."


Hill Giant wrote:

"The difference between the almost right word & the right word is really a large matter--it's the difference between the lightning bug and the lightning." -- Mark Twain

There's another quote I keep in mind when writing, though I don't remember where I heard it: Someone accused a writer: "You write like you think you're smart." The writer replied: "No, I write like I think my readers are smart."

Great quote!

Mark Twain's line in a letter to George Bainton back in 1888.

The Exchange

Vattnisse wrote:

Fruitcake with marzipan and icing? Wow... that sounds like quite the workout - one I have never seen anywhere before. Being Norwegian, I can't really speak for what Americans consume for Christmas treats, but the Norwegian tradition is to trade marzipan figures (pigs being the most common)with your friends and then eat 'em. Some cover their marzipan with chocolate, but I prefer it "natural". Also, a popular summery treat is baking big cream cakes with a thin top layer of marzipan. Gotta agree with R-Type here: too much of the stuff becomes rather unappealing.

I'm hungry now...

A Norwegian guy told me that the traditional Christmas meal in Norway is a herring dipped in industrial solvent until it goes transparent and jellified. Makes marzipan and icing sound pretty mild. (Or maybe he was pulling my leg.)

The Exchange

Aubrey the Malformed wrote:


I am wondering if you read books and stuff. You are entitled to your tastes, but it seems that you want to defend ignorance as a good thing. Good vocabulary is a handy tool. Complaining about it being "complicated" just seems like an unwillingness to improve yourself.

HELLFINGER wrote:
No need to try to offend him by trying to say that he doesn't read books or has any culture. For all of you who have been posting the definitons of tureen and marzipan, and arguing that we are are defending an ignorant point of view, you really don't seem to understand what the thread is about. The focus is not on the language itself, but how it affects the game.

I wasn't trying to offend, and I know exactly what this thread is about - I have followed and contributed to this one from the beginning. My comment was made in a spirit of enquiry - it was a question, after all. And I was providing my opinion. I was pretty baffled by his comments, as they seemed wilfully ignorant, though I think he clarified them later and I think I clarified mine.

It was also based on my work experience - I write lots of reports and I'm good at it, having a good vocabulary. Those who are poor at it tend not to read for pleasure. So I was asking so I could gauge where he was coming from in terms of "cultural tastes".

Also, the thrust of the argument is that the language in Dungeon is "difficult". It isn't, in my opinion - it's all pretty standard to me. So it's not "I don't like marzipan references in D&D as they are unnecessary," but "What is marzipan? I'm confused.".

Hanexs took the comment in the manner it was intended, as subsequent posts indicate. I was blunt, but not rude.

By the way, "No need to try to offend him by trying to say that he doesn't read books or has any culture" is ungrammatical.

The Exchange

I make a damn fine toad-in-the-hole. Sausages in batter - it's not that complicated.


Aubrey the Malformed wrote:
A Norwegian guy told me that the traditional Christmas meal in Norway is a herring dipped in industrial solvent until it goes transparent and jellified. Makes marzipan and icing sound pretty mild. (Or maybe he was pulling my leg.)

He wasn't kidding. We have that in Finland too, and it divides opinions...some like it, most hate it. The solvent is lye.

Also, have you tasted our delicious candy made of ammonium chloride?

(then again, I once tasted root beer and it tasted like toothpaste...why would anyone want to drink such vile thing, I cannot understand).


magdalena thiriet wrote:


He wasn't kidding. We have that in Finland too, and it divides opinions...some like it, most hate it. The solvent is lye.

That reminds me of the bright reds sausages from Denmark - red like a firefighter truck... It was not a marketing success elsewhere, AFAIK.

Stefan


magdalena thiriet wrote:


Also, have you tasted our delicious candy made of ammonium chloride?

Sounds nice and tasty.

Here in Berlin some people have taken a liking in Hydric Acid. I never understood why but it's quite popular, especially with "healthy eaters"...

Bocklin ;-)


1 person marked this as a favorite.

Ooh, I love hydric acid, I practically bathe in it. Though not in purest form, of course...and I try not to inhale.


magdalena thiriet wrote:
(then again, I once tasted root beer and it tasted like toothpaste...why would anyone want to drink such vile thing, I cannot understand).

You, ma'am, have besmirched my nation's traditional drink and you shall pay.


Bocklin wrote:
magdalena thiriet wrote:


Also, have you tasted our delicious candy made of ammonium chloride?

Sounds nice and tasty.

Here in Berlin some people have taken a liking in Hydric Acid. I never understood why but it's quite popular, especially with "healthy eaters"...

Bocklin ;-)

Reminds me that one of my friends spilled chloridic acid on my clothes after he stole some from chemistry class. Hum...what does it do anyways?(besides stinking SOO MUCH)

Grand Lodge

magdalena thiriet wrote:
Aubrey the Malformed wrote:
A Norwegian guy told me that the traditional Christmas meal in Norway is a herring dipped in industrial solvent until it goes transparent and jellified. Makes marzipan and icing sound pretty mild. (Or maybe he was pulling my leg.)

He wasn't kidding. We have that in Finland too, and it divides opinions...some like it, most hate it. The solvent is lye.

Wow - I thought lutefisk was an exclusively Norwegian vice. The historical roots of it is that poor fishermen had to use..., um, extraordinary measures to soften up their remaining stock of dried and salted cod. The result is an unspeakably vile dish - it has a quivering, oozy consistency, an unhealthy grey colour and smells like a particularly ripe zombie. It is served with potatoes, greasy gravy and mustard, and is then consumed with vast, vast quantities of aquavit (Norwegian potato alcohol, not entirely unlike bad whiskey). How much of a "traditional Christmas meal" it is is debatable - it is never a main dish. My dad, for one, eats it (alone) on the third day of Christmas, and that is fairly representative.

Really, the only fun thing about lutefisk is that it has become sorta fetishised in some Norwegian-American groups, who eat the nasty thing regularly because "that's what they do in Norway". However, in Norway, it is only eaten once around Christmas, if at all. Phew! I'll take marzipan and icing every time (it just seemed a bit much - marzipan and icing and fruit cake?).


Vattnisse wrote:
...wrote stuff about lutefisk and its inherent vileness...

Now, I consider myself fairly adventurous when it comes to culinary things, but lutefisk is most assuredly on my list of "Hell no." Along with garum. And liver.


When the term "dipped in lye" is bandied about, I don't think of food. I typically think,"Whose corpse are you destroying?". My horizons have been broadened.


HELLFINGER wrote:
Reminds me that one of my friends spilled chloridic acid on my clothes after he stole some from chemistry class. Hum...what does it do anyways?(besides stinking SOO MUCH)

Well, makes holes in clothing and leaves yellow (or was it white?) stains in you skin. At least if it is reasonably dilute.

Hydric acid, btw, refers to acid form of hydroxyl ion, OH-...layman might refer to the substance as "water".

The Exchange

magdalena thiriet wrote:
Hydric acid, btw, refers to acid form of hydroxyl ion, OH-...layman might refer to the substance as "water".

Ah, a chemistry joke. And there is me thinking you were into poppers.


magdalena thiriet wrote:
Hydric acid, btw, refers to acid form of hydroxyl ion, OH-...layman might refer to the substance as "water".

Man... You gave it away so easily...

;-)

Bocklin


Sorry for posting after this poor dead horse has been thoroughly beaten, but I couldn't resist. I knew the definitions of all of those words immediately (know "tureen"? I OWN one!) and me with only one measly degree (and it's in Biology/Chemistry, not English). My husband is one of the smartest guys I know and he did stumble on a couple of the words (Marzipan in particular). Still, I guess the one thing that's still got me confused is why your players wouldn't just speak up and say, "Uh,... what's a tureen?" if they didn't know. The excuse that this information is not necessary for level advancement both alarms and saddens me. It sounds like your players really are students in some compulsory class ("Is this going to be on the test?"). It's a game, people! You should be enjoying the experience (in all its levels of application, pun intended!) not filtering information based on what is absolutely necessary to know and what is just fluff.
Not meaning to sound offensive but your description makes me extremely thankful not to be sharing a game table with such players. Sounds like linear play to me. "Point me toward bad guy. Ugh, I will crush!". How can you represent your game as a role-playing experience and then follow with an explanation that your players filter all descriptions down to the barest mechanics needed? Here's an idea - skip the dinner party all together; hand your players a piece of paper which explains Zeech's role in the entire Age of Worms scenario and then follow a yellow brick road to Lashonna's house. Becoming aware of Zeech's involvement and meeting with Lashonna are the only two real goals of the adventure. The party, the contests, the personalities the players encounter are all just fluff. Doesn't sound like your players need such fiddle-faddle {and yes, that's the technical term for it!} :)


Jeremy Mac Donald wrote:
hanexs wrote:
Well, I can only vouch for my players and my campaign and I know that 5 players at the table (4 players and me) did not know "tureen," "marzipan," or "proboscis".. Maybe in our area (Ontario) they just are not popular words.
Certianly I doubt if they come up much more often in the US (or I fear for the education system of our province). Tureen is kind of specialized and Marzipan is probably something your more likely to encounter in Continental Europe. Proboscis though is not that obscure.

I'm not sure if I "count" - I grew up all over the show, born in England, emigrated to Canada, etc - but I do recall learning 'Proboscis' in grade 7 or 8 science in Canada. My mother made 'Marzipan' (and there's a great story about how I learned I was allergic to peanuts but not almonds, but that's neither here nor there), and 'tureen' I think I came across when I was being force-fed etiquette.

Mind, my husband bought me the 24 volume complete Oxford English Dictionary for an engagement present. There are twenty-four pages for the english word 'set.' So, if I don't know a word, I absolutely dive for them...


Lady Aurora wrote:

Sorry for posting after this poor dead horse has been thoroughly beaten, but I couldn't resist. I knew the definitions of all of those words immediately (know "tureen"? I OWN one!) and me with only one measly degree (and it's in Biology/Chemistry, not English). My husband is one of the smartest guys I know and he did stumble on a couple of the words (Marzipan in particular). Still, I guess the one thing that's still got me confused is why your players wouldn't just speak up and say, "Uh,... what's a tureen?" if they didn't know. The excuse that this information is not necessary for level advancement both alarms and saddens me. It sounds like your players really are students in some compulsory class ("Is this going to be on the test?"). It's a game, people! You should be enjoying the experience (in all its levels of application, pun intended!) not filtering information based on what is absolutely necessary to know and what is just fluff.

Not meaning to sound offensive but your description makes me extremely thankful not to be sharing a game table with such players. Sounds like linear play to me. "Point me toward bad guy. Ugh, I will crush!". How can you represent your game as a role-playing experience and then follow with an explanation that your players filter all descriptions down to the barest mechanics needed? Here's an idea - skip the dinner party all together; hand your players a piece of paper which explains Zeech's role in the entire Age of Worms scenario and then follow a yellow brick road to Lashonna's house. Becoming aware of Zeech's involvement and meeting with Lashonna are the only two real goals of the adventure. The party, the contests, the personalities the players encounter are all just fluff. Doesn't sound like your players need such fiddle-faddle {and yes, that's the technical term for it!} :)

You miss the point entirely. These kind of jabs do not help the discussion, and I feel they are just a way for posters to show how smart they are. Just because my players don't know the definition of a word, does not mean we are hack and slash players. The reason they wouldn't ask what a Tureen is, is that they grasp what matters and what doesn't. If my player asked "What's a tureen?" and I said, "A pot" would that make my game more of a role-playing game? How are we supposed to role play with a pot? Your brilliant "idea" about skipping the dinner is not helpfull either. I have said I enjoyed the premise of the adventure several times in this post, as have my players.

I will stress again, I prefer to run games where my players understand what I say. I don't want to pause the game to explain words, I feel this interrupts the flow of the game. It is funny that in the DMs manual and Dungeoncraft they speak about not interrupting the flow of the game, even to just haze over rules with simple DC checks instead of pausing to look up a rule. So while I am not supposed to look up rules during the game, I am supposed to pause to look up or explain the definition of a POT?

Generally when I speak I choose words my intended audience will IMMEDIATELY understand. Is this such a foreign concept? Any public speaking guide/book will recommend that speakers use conversational language and stay away from specialized words. At my school we send students to speech competitions, and quite often we have to tell them to put DOWN the thesaurus because they incorrectly think that bigger more obscure/specialized words will make their speech better.

Liberty's Edge

I have to agree, I think the discussion is past the point where saying “I know those words” is helpful or relevant. I know I was one of the first to do so (at the risk of sounding like a smart-ass), but I’ve stayed out of the discussion recently because I think the point that they are not completely obscure words has been well and truly made – and there’s really no shame if someone doesn’t know them.

I think this thread has dipped dangerously close (if not crossed the line) of flaming the OP who, however “right” or “wrong” his/her opinions might be took the fairly brave step of high lighting an issue that he/she felt was a problem, even though it was fairly clear that the majority of people on these boards (myself included) would disagree.

Hanexs, I have been thinking about this though, and I still feel that it would help you A LOT in preparing for your adventures if you did read through the read-aloud text before hand, when you’re doing the rest of your prep. I know you’ve stated that you don’t enjoy “reading” the magazine (though you do enjoy playing / Dming the adventures), but seriously, for the average Dungeon adventure, reading this text would add about 10 minutes to the time spent reading the rest of the adventure. Where there are words that you’re not familiar with, it might take you a few minutes longer if you choose to look them up (which I advocate) but if you’re really against this, just reading through it before hand and not being caught by surprise when you’re playing might really help, and you can generally figure out the general meaning of the word, or at least make something up, by its context.

Why should you do this? Well, the editor and publisher have already stated that they’re not intending to reduce the level of vocabulary in the magazine, so you can be fairly sure you’re going to have to put up with this for a while. Also there is often pertinent information contained in these areas of text that it would just be wasteful, doubling up on space if they were described elsewhere. So from a tactics / preperation point of view, it makes a lot of sense to completely understand the scenario you’re going to run, whether its from a “roleplaying”, “tactics”, or just “fun” point of view.

I really urge you to try reading through these areas of text the next time you are preparing an adventure, and see if it adds much time to your preperation time, and also if it adds anything to your game. I strongly suggest it will not and will, respectively (in that order).

Also, let me say that while I completely disagree with your opinion, I do admire that you’ve stuck to your guns despite some heavy opposition and hinted (or blatant criticism). Good luck with your game.


Advice noted mothman, thank you. I just played LOLR and I just ad libbed a lot of the entries. I am so busy sometimes and I sometimes say "oh well I am sure my players will get this read aloud portion". But for example, the read aloud portion with Lashona at first is almost 2 pages long! If I was to read this I would have to tell my players to get comfy, and get a glass of water so I could get through it. So since I knew the adventure so well I just ad libbed the read aloud sections. Much easier for me.

I admit there were no obscure words in this adventure that I could notice, but still it just doesn't seem like these sections were meant to be quickly understood to the common layman. For example the sentence "These skeletal wrecks crowd the rocky shorline, a veritable city of barnacle-claimed vessels peopled with dead sailors". I reworded this so that I could say it quickly and not have to repeat, "The beach is littered with ruined ships, some propped up on rocks. Skeletal sailors are visible on the ships."

I mean really, "barnacle-claimed"?

The Exchange

I for one would never claim the style that the read-aloud text is written is always, or even often, great. I remember some of Chris Perkins' somewhat overwrought prose - I think it often clunks a bit when read out (I suspect they don't do a quick check of reading it out to an independent witness to see if it trips off the tongue).


The Jade Wrote.

I hope you know you single handedly ruined my Marzipan Golem submission. It's in the mail already. Thanks a heap.

I think this got missed in all the messageboard sparring,
Now that is funny!

Liberty's Edge

scorpionkiss wrote:

The Jade Wrote.

I hope you know you single handedly ruined my Marzipan Golem submission. It's in the mail already. Thanks a heap.

I think this got missed in all the messageboard sparring,
Now that is funny!

I hope it doesn't melt.

Contributor

Bram Blackfeather wrote:
(and there's a great story about how I learned I was allergic to peanuts but not almonds, but that's neither here nor there)...

That's not too surprising, really. Almonds are nuts, while peanuts are legumes. It's fairly common to be alergic to one but not the other.


I would go so far as to say a DM should not only read the read-aloud text during his preparation, but should take the time to practice actually reading it aloud. Doing so will improve your delivery immensely, in addition to showing you the points where it will need re-worded for best effect.


magdalena thiriet wrote:
HELLFINGER wrote:
Reminds me that one of my friends spilled chloridic acid on my clothes after he stole some from chemistry class. Hum...what does it do anyways?(besides stinking SOO MUCH)

Well, makes holes in clothing and leaves yellow (or was it white?) stains in you skin. At least if it is reasonably dilute.

Hydric acid, btw, refers to acid form of hydroxyl ion, OH-...layman might refer to the substance as "water".

I'll have to say im lucky cuz my shirt was intact


hanexs wrote:

Advice noted mothman, thank you. I just played LOLR and I just ad libbed a lot of the entries. I am so busy sometimes and I sometimes say "oh well I am sure my players will get this read aloud portion". But for example, the read aloud portion with Lashona at first is almost 2 pages long! If I was to read this I would have to tell my players to get comfy, and get a glass of water so I could get through it. So since I knew the adventure so well I just ad libbed the read aloud sections. Much easier for me.

I admit there were no obscure words in this adventure that I could notice, but still it just doesn't seem like these sections were meant to be quickly understood to the common layman. For example the sentence "These skeletal wrecks crowd the rocky shorline, a veritable city of barnacle-claimed vessels peopled with dead sailors". I reworded this so that I could say it quickly and not have to repeat, "The beach is littered with ruined ships, some propped up on rocks. Skeletal sailors are visible on the ships."

I mean really, "barnacle-claimed"?

Hehehe, ok, ok, have to agree with this one....


"These skeletal wrecks crowd the rocky shorline, a veritable city of barnacle-claimed vessels peopled with dead sailors".

I think the turn of phrase is rather evoocative myself.

That said one can take this all to far. Personally I'd not really mind if there was no read aloud text in Dungeon at all. Used to be that at least some of the submissions choose to forgo with it and I can't really say I'd miss it. I'd definitly get unhappy if it expanded out to much. There should be a point and the read aloud text should convey it.


hanexs wrote:

I admit there were no obscure words in this adventure that I could notice, but still it just doesn't seem like these sections were meant to be quickly understood to the common layman. For example the sentence "These skeletal wrecks crowd the rocky shorline, a veritable city of barnacle-claimed vessels peopled with dead sailors". I reworded this so that I could say it quickly and not have to repeat, "The beach is littered with ruined ships, some propped up on rocks. Skeletal sailors are visible on the ships."

I mean really, "barnacle-claimed"?

I think you're taking exactly the right approach there - adapting the boxed text to your play group. I never read the text out directly, as that can come across as stilted or awkward, and there are often elements I want to skip over or highlight, depending on the players I've got, or the mood I'm hoping to create. Reading and thinking about the text in advance allows you to be ready to paraphrase it - which is generally recommended in these adventures, I believe.

Having said that , I don't think that these sections were "meant to be quickly understood to the common layman." They are supposed to convey information about the location described, of course, but that's not all. They aim to do this in an atmospheric and evocative way, which can help to fire the imagination. Personally, I love the phrase "barnacle-claimed" - it conjures up an image of ships thickly covered with barnacles, suggesting that they are very old, and also acts as a reminder of the impersonal, destructive power of nature and the sea.

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