Supernatural


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Not a problem. I hope you catch up, It's been aome interesting episodes you've missed.


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Alzrius wrote:
My understanding is that Jensen tweeted that there was going to be an eleventh season, but there hadn't been any official confirmation yet.

Really? They've been saying all season (even at the fan festival), that this would be the last season.

I guess we'll see. All things have to end, but I really like this show...


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It has now been officially confirmed, there will be an eleventh season of Supernatural!


i love supernatural soooo much, that being said every new season i fear it will be the season that it becomes played out for me. the leviathan season was starting to give me that vibe but it sorta pulled me in later. So part of me wants next season to be their last, because 12 seasons sounds like the too far for even the best of shows.


The Leviathan season was a miss-step, but they sacrificed it into a much better next season.

I'm looking forward to getting to the end.


I miss watching supernatural...I got lost somewhere after satan...I know

Spoiler:
Sam got his soul back
...but it gets iffy around then.


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havoc xiii wrote:
I miss watching supernatural...I got lost somewhere after satan...I know ** spoiler omitted **...but it gets iffy around then.

The entire series (not including the current season) is on Netflix, if you feel like catching up. It sounds like you're up to season 6 or so, which I quite enjoyed; one of the best episodes ever, to me, was "The French Mistake," which was the meta episode to end all meta episodes. Seriously, at one point you had:

Spoiler:
Jared Padalecki and Jensen Ackles playing Sam and Dean Winchester playing Jared Padalecki and Jensen Ackles playing Sam and Dean Winchester!

Sublime!


I remember that one...good times.


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I have re-watched the finale to season 5 about a dozen times. Every time I think "Man, this show has become some really hackneyed schlock" I just go back and re-watch it again. Frankly I think at this point I'm probably just watching to watch, to see how it all turns out. I assumed from that series 5 finale though that

Spoiler:
Carver Edlund was god

so I figured that eventually it would all come back to that point. Then I found out the ending of the first ep this season was a nod to some fan fiction and just kind of shrugged

... and went back to the season 5 finale. I wish they hadn't jumped the leviathan. I wish they hadn't done Bobby that way. I wish Crowley didn't have a mortal fetish. I wish...

I think I'm due for another re-watch. Because the whole thing can be summed up as 2 boys and a car. Everything else, the rest of the world and the universe and bunkers and monsters and demons and all of it, came second. I suppose an argument could be made otherwise, but not for me.

Scarab Sages

Mark Hoover wrote:
Frankly I think at this point I'm probably just watching to watch, to see how it all turns out.

This. It's not even a priority anymore. Hell, the only reason I actually watched last night's episode when it actually aired was because I didn't have anything else that really needed doing.

And that episode was weak. I don't see how they're going to keep it up through another entire season.

One of the big problems these day, in my own not-at-all humble opinion, is (a)they refuse to kill off Crowley (who's become a idiotic wuss) and Metatron (who just needs to have the s%%$ kicked out him repeatedly and forever), meaning they will keep using them as lame, worn out antagonists, and (b) resolve the f+@&ing Mark of Cain thing already!!! Or are we just going to spend the rest of the series with Sam trying to find a cure while Dean flip-flops about "I'm gonna fight it" "I'm done fighting it".


Aberzombie wrote:
One of the big problems these day, in my own not-at-all humble opinion, is (a)they refuse to kill off Crowley (who's become a idiotic wuss) and Metatron (who just needs to have the s*#* kicked out him repeatedly and forever), meaning they will keep using them as lame, worn out antagonists, and (b) resolve the f@*+ing Mark of Cain thing already!!! Or are we just going to spend the rest of the series with Sam trying to find a cure while Dean flip-flops about "I'm gonna fight it" "I'm done fighting it".

Your ideas are intriguing to me and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter.


AZ: calm yourself, breathe (or in your case, don't since, y'know, you're a zombie). Find Netflix, search Supernatural, find season 5, and watch the finale.

Having a bad day at work? Watch the season 5 finale. Miss your family? Watch the season 5 finale. Home sick and need a good cry? Watch the season 5 finale.

Things got done. Things got resolved. Sure, I don't like the last 15 seconds of the episode, but I know that everything that happened in this show from those seconds on was nothing more than a cash cow being kicked.

Nowadays you're watching the Supernatural reruns that just hadn't aired yet. The shark has been jumped, the show's gone stale, but for just one episode it was all worth it.

But there's hope. See from what I've read online the season 5 finale was written in anticipation of the end. We know they can pull off an end, a wrap up. As the author says in that episode: endings are hard... etc. But we KNOW they can.

So grit your teeth. We must suffer through the whining, the flip-flopping, the insufferable boobs that serve as antagonists (Crowley's mom, the living stereotype witch?) and all the other done-to-death elements. But the end is coming.

And while we wait, we can go back and see the rough draft. Detroit, the slow maddening march towards inevitability, and the one time that Dean DIDN'T waffle and DIDN'T throw a punch. He just took it; took it on the chin over and over so his little brother didn't have to be alone.

And that's it right there. At the heart of it all, that's what they need to get back to. Not the cliche of two brothers who will die for one another but the ACTUAL portrayal of two little boys who never had ANYTHING stable in their lives except each other. Now they're just bigger but they're still scared, and lonely, and hurting, but they have each other.

The thing I liked in that finale as much as the narration and the sidebars that humanized everythnig was the fact that both boys SURRENDERED to one another. They genuinely accepted that sometimes the only thing left to do is just BE.

I suppose that's what I miss since the show's continuation after season 5. A certain amount of humanity is gone. They literally make fun of themselves for the tropes they're living. The closest they got to breaking this was Crowley's own descent into humanity.

They could fix Metatron. He was god's scribe but he also spent ages on earth and absorbed all of its culture. He may yet have some kind of redemption arc coming.

But I think the best ending of all would be to finally deal with the elephant in the room: god. The whole thing started with an absentee father but at least John Winchester put in a couple appearances before getting removed from the series.

I think they should somehow redeem god in as much as he is the father. If you're going to satarize the pagan gods, resolve Lucifer and continue to maintain angel arcs you should at least give god a freaking cameo.

Personally the best onscreen depiction I've seen of the father was the movie Dogma. In said movie god appears at the very end, revealed in the form of a female (played by Alannis Morissette) and when all's said and done is completely unknowable. As many questions as it left me with, it made sense to do it that way.

We've seen the scribe of god and a couple prophets, the voice of god. We've also had numerous nods to laws, rules and orders he's given to angels over the ages. We know he's involved, somehow in the Supernatural universe. Now that we know, help us believe.

Religion too often in this show is a punchline or a well to be mined for plot hooks. I think if they're going to end it all they should really dive in.

Humanity. God. Redemption. Belief. And the car. That's all I ask.

Scarab Sages

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They should have gone full-on Great Old One a few seasons back. Start out with Nyarlothep and his cult - could have gotten a season or two out of him with his different aspects. Then maybe move on to Azathoth, Shub Niggurath, Yog Sothoth. Maybe more than one per season. Work all the way up to Cthulhu.

That would have been awesome.


The French Mistake was awesome and one of the best episodes.

Seasons 1-5 were the best, but I'm still loving this show and there are glimpses of greatness every once in a while. Supernatural the Musical was another great episode.

I still like it when they hunt monsters, doesn't need to be about the metaplot. Loved the witch in the Hansel and Grettel episode.

Don't like Crowley's Mom as a character, hope she dies soon. In general in seasons 1-5 demons were quite terrifying and evil, it's getting kind of comical now.

I'm quite happy with them doing a season 11, I just hope it's innovative and the story goes somewhere.


Aberzombie wrote:
One of the big problems these day, in my own not-at-all humble opinion, is (a)they refuse to kill off Crowley (who's become a idiotic wuss) and Metatron (who just needs to have the s$+@ kicked out him repeatedly and forever), meaning they will keep using them as lame, worn out antagonists, and (b) resolve the f&*@ing Mark of Cain thing already!!! Or are we just going to spend the rest of the series with Sam trying to find a cure while Dean flip-flops about "I'm gonna fight it" "I'm done fighting it".

I agree, they are way too friendly with Crowley, he's like one of their buddies. It's a bit like a soap opera quite frankly, which is completely different from season 1-5 in which demons were definitely the enemy (even when they pretended to be friends).

On the other hand, WHY would they want to kill Crowley? Right now demons are as benevolent and controlled as they've ever been (mostly cutting deals with mortals), so why wouldn't they want the lesser evil in power? It's better than Abadon and an all out war with humanity.

Can't kill Metatron, angels wouldn't like that and I like that someone who knows more than anyone else is still around. And he could still be useful (although I personally would have killed him). I'm sure he has some role to play in the conclusion to everything.

Mark Hoover wrote:
I think they should somehow redeem god in as much as he is the father. If you're going to satarize the pagan gods, resolve Lucifer and continue to maintain angel arcs you should at least give god a freaking cameo.

They will. Death already said that Dean will reap god. I believe that's how the series ends.

Scarab Sages

Oy vey! What a craptastic episode. Seriously, this is getting painful to watch.

Spoiler:
Crowley's mom is plain annoying. And, sadly, it looks like they're about to serve her up as the big bad. Probably stretch her out into next season as well.

And, of course, now the Men of Letters are probably going to end up being a male version of the Witches Coven. With the revelation that there are more repositories of knowledge, I'm starting to guess that Season 12 will be global road trip time, with Sam and Dean trying to track down each repository, hoping to find a cure for the Mark of Cain in one of them. All the while, they'll be racing Crowley's mom and her minions to each site. They'll probably have to contend with other, more corrupt aspects of the Men of Letters as well.

Maybe they'll even throw in a ghost or 20. That seems to be the favorite monster now.

And the more Sam keeps whining about the Mark of Cain, the more I wish Demon Dean had gutted him at the beginning of the season, then jumped into a volcano.

So, in short, I'm almost done.

Sovereign Court

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Glad I'm waiting for Netflix on this one... the week-to-week waiting anticipation seems to be poorly rewarded...

Shadow Lodge

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Aberzombie wrote:

Oy vey! What a craptastic episode. Seriously, this is getting painful to watch.

** spoiler omitted **

So, in short, I'm almost done.

With you on Crowley's mom. She's so boring and just poorly executed and causes easy more narrative breaks for me than intrigue.

Like why haven't more demons started turning on or ignoring Crowley's after watching his mom basically soap him around all day at work? Why does Crowley allow this since he is the literal KING OF HELL and had to try to maintain the loyalty of LITERAL DEMONS?!

If the witches have this sort of semi immortal organization running them why haven't we seen or heard of them until now?

If the witches are this fractured a and did empowered how the hell did Crowley's mom not figure it out centuries ago/still considered a threat?

Why the hell is boss witch being all high and mighty about Moms associating with demons when we've seen that A lot of witches end up in hell and become demons or her trained by them and A lot of demons retain the knowledge they had in life? Seriously with the whole, "The Men of Letters took everything!" Schtick we are in it sounds like calling on ancient demon witches would be pretty common practice with modern witches. F&#@ that would be way cooler than what we are getting now.

What the hell is with this sudden Muggle hate? Like isn't magic NOT genetic in Supernatural and anyone can be taught it? Why is this lady all pissy about normal people, wasn't she/isn't she just a normal person too who learned how to make demon killing goodie bags?

Seriously this is all stuff that the show has just thrown at me as questions I know we won't see addressed since she's shown up (or hell this episode) and will either get ignored or brushed off for one stupid reason or another.


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Aberzombie wrote:

They should have gone full-on Great Old One a few seasons back. Start out with Nyarlothep and his cult - could have gotten a season or two out of him with his different aspects. Then maybe move on to Azathoth, Shub Niggurath, Yog Sothoth. Maybe more than one per season. Work all the way up to Cthulhu.

That would have been awesome.

I would have started watching again if they had done this.

Scarab Sages

Ye gods!! The pain this forced upon my poor, tender head!!!

Honestly, the only reason I think I watch it anymore is to see exactly what kind of incredibly stupid decisions the writers force the characters to make just to keep the series going.

If they were an adventuring party, they'd have been dead about 4 or 5 seasons ago, Kyuss would rule the world, Karzoug would have hooked up with Allevrah Azrinae to cause the Rain of the Rune Giants, and Salavatore & Greenwood would be announcing their new ten-novel partnership: Road Warriors: Drizzt and Elminster Against All Fiends!!!


Umm...they WERE dead 4 or 5 seasons ago. Just sayin'.


For me, the first five seasons were fantastic. Loved the character growth, the battle between monster of the week and metaplot, and generally speaking everything about the show. Plus, the wrap up in Swan Song was excellent. Tied up almost all the loose ends I wanted and gave the meaningful characters a decent send of. I think, in my head cannon, the series ended with Swan Song. That was as far as the original plotting for the creator went, and it shows.

The problem was, the show was too popular at that point to end it. Ever since then the show has limped on. There have been some decent episodes in the interim, but the show has suffered horribly from a lack of focus and direction. Plot arcs have not meaningfully evolved, and the villains have become increasingly unintimidating or outright laughable. Demons, which were once scary (remember Meg, season 1?) are mooks at best. Plots have become jokes. The King of Hell spent a season as a sidekick.

Ugh.

If the show was going to keep going, it needed a unifying plot across seasons that wasn't written at the end of each season. The sad and beautiful part was, there was a direction to go with it: Croatoan. For a brief time I actually thought that was where they were going, since most of the other elements of the show lined up so well. Castiel no longer an angel, Bobby dead, and of course, Sam having said yes in Detriot.

Oh well. I haven't even bothered to watch this season, the last few have been so bad.

Scarab Sages

Rynjin wrote:
Umm...they WERE dead 4 or 5 seasons ago. Just sayin'.

True, but (unfortunately) never both at the same time (except that one episode where they were killed by fellow hunters and had to run around Heaven trying to escape, but that was actually before the end of season 5 I think).

The Winchester brothers - like the Keith Richards and Ozzy of the CW.

Scarab Sages

Sibylla wrote:
The problem was, the show was too popular at that point to end it.

This is true. However, now they have at least two shows that are consistently doing better in the ratings department - Arrow and the Flash. From what I could find, neither show has fallen below 3 million viewers this season, while Supernatural has yet to crack the 3 million mark, and has gone under 2 million a few times.


I'm a HUGE fan of this show but wasn't impressed with how the season ended. Can't stand Rowena and now we're guaranteed to see more of her. Sigh.

Hopefully they're not completely out of fresh ideas for the next season.

Shadow Lodge

Id honestly have to say I was unimpressed with the entire season.


Like most seasons, there were parts of this one that I absolutely loved.

I still don't think they've hit as high a mark as Season 4 since, but I was really gripped by Jensen's performance this season during episodes that specifically focused on his struggle with the Mark.

The finale, in particular, was super intense. And when Dean told Sam to close his eyes, I lost it. That scene, more than any other across the whole of the season, hit me really, really hard. And while the season as a whole might not have been as coherent as some others, the finale needed that kind of build up for Sam and Dean's conversation there at the end to have the heft that it did.

So, while it wasn't the best, it also wasn't the worst and the scene just prior to the cliff-hanger ending made it all worthwhile in my view.


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Do we know the air date for the season eleven premiere yet?


Oct. 7th


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Damon Griffin wrote:
Oct. 7th

Booyah! Thanks!

Scarab Sages

Jason S wrote:
Can't stand Rowena and now we're guaranteed to see more of her. Sigh.

Thanks for the warning. I had momentarily considered returning to the show for the beginning of the season, but knowing that s~*# character will probably be around, I can spend that hour in better ways.


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So is it just me, or was tonight's Supernatural one of the best in recent memory?

Seriously, I want to know who to thank for the episode I just watched, because the show was in top form. The way that we got to see Sam and Dean just hanging out and joking around as brothers, the fact that Sam suddenly, of his own accord, came clean with Dean about what happened with the "infection" during the previous episodes, and most of all the absolutely hilarious sequence where we're listening to Cas on the phone while Dean gets in a fight in the background, culminating in him using the windshield wipers to remove the severed head from his car was truly excellent.

Even the premise of the season was incredibly well-done here. The whole issue of The Darkness was pushed into a background motivation for why the monsters were acting up (not to join it, but because they were afraid of it, was a nice twist). That and the excellently subtle way that they demonstrated the message from Sam's vision that "God helps those who help themselves." It was a great way to keep the focus of the season in play without letting it get in the way of the incredible interplay between the brothers...or rather, between the brothers and their car. The car was practically a co-star in this episode (which was appropriate, since it was in the title).

Really, I hope that the show can keep bringing bringing its game at this level (especially after the season premiere seemed so inappropriately low-key in terms of setting the stakes), because I'm really enjoying the sudden upswing in quality.

Scarab Sages

I've given up on the show, but keep forgetting to cancel the DVR recordings. So I saw the description for last night's episode and am half tempted to watch it.


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Aberzombie wrote:
I've given up on the show, but keep forgetting to cancel the DVR recordings. So I saw the description for last night's episode and am half tempted to watch it.

You should. It's really, really good. Like, "top ten list of the show's best episodes" good.

EDIT: In hindsight, and having read some reviews, I realized I missed the obvious "hook" for this episode, which was that

Spoiler:
it was told from the perspective of the car. Literally, every shot was from the interior of the Impala.


Alzrius wrote:
In hindsight, and having read some reviews, I realized I missed the obvious "hook" for this episode, which was that ** spoiler omitted **

Well, as the teaser pointed out, Baby is the most important object in the universe. At least...

Spoiler:
...from Baby's point of view. :)


'Baby' may be favorite episode at this point. I was really impressed with how the episode was shot for one, but the writing and interplay between Dean and Sam was top notch. Absolutely loved it.


This season in general is the best season in YEARS. I'd say so far it's actually as good as season 4 or 5.

They seem to have finally realized "Winchesters wangst over lies and secrets" was played out and have them get kinda mildly pissed at worst over secrets being kept and then move on a minute later. Plus the whole "Everyone STAYS dead now" thing makes the stakes actually feel high again.

The writing in general is back up to snuff too. As long as it doesn't drop off sharply later it may be one of my favorite seasons.


Nice! I've got to start watching again. I loved seasons 1-5, everyone did but since then I've only watched the occasional an episode here or there...


Nice! I've got to start watching again. I loved seasons 1-5, everyone did but since then I've only watched the occasional episode here or there...

Scarab Sages

It went ahead and watched the "Baby" episode. Very well done. Not enough for me to pick the series back up, however.....

Shadow Lodge

So far, this season really feels a lot more like Season 1-3. It feels like a lot of the more predictable Season tropes that have been done to death are gone. Sam and Dean having a fight, one that basically forgets all past seasons where the one accusing the other of some unforgivable sin had done the exact same thing, and "we just can't work together".

Sam praying was cool, the interaction with his dad was cool. Dean not throwing a fit over "I think I might be having visions, too" was great. The interaction between the angel and the demon in the bar was cool.

Scarab Sages

Seriously?!?

Spoiler:
God's sister? That is ten tons of stupid s%+* in a one ton bag.


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I don't see what's so stupid about it. They're both primordial beings who've existed since quite literally before the dawn of creation.

Even if they're not literal brother and sister, being the only two beings in existence for untold, unknowable amounts of time-that-is-not kinda makes you family in a sense. We're already suspending disbelief by believing there was ONE creature who existed before reality as we know it was formed, throwing a second one into the mix doesn't strain creduilty any more.

I quite liked the story actually, simplistic as it was. Similar to many creation myths, the creator god had to slay something or someone to create what exists today.

And since Amara is the literal darkness that existed before everything, it makes sense. Her being at full capacity and things existing are mutually exclusive.

She represents the nothingness before time. Time and Not-Time, Space and Not-Space, etc. cannot coexist.

And so she was sealed off.

Scarab Sages

My problem with it...

Spoiler:
If she's God's sister, one of the oldest (if not the oldest) beings in all creation, possibly God's equal and opposite, she should be able to pretty much think the world into non-existence. Anything less, and you reduce both her and God into really powerful beings that can be killed/defeated.

And so, once they defeat her, where does the series go? Do they then get to fight God? Maybe introduce God's father, or cousin, or mother's sister's cousin's brother's former college roommate?

They've pretty much guaranteed they've got one season left, where they'll likely have to fight God. Any other BBEG and they'd be having to do some serious pretzel twists in plot.

Hmmmm.....a villain that could finally spell the end of the series is in sight....never mind. I think I like her better already.

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Spoiler:

Aberzombie wrote:
If she's God's sister, one of the oldest (if not the oldest) beings in all creation, possibly God's equal and opposite, she should be able to pretty much think the world into non-existence. Anything less, and you reduce both her and God into really powerful beings that can be killed/defeated.

A few seasons back, Death gave the impression that he was one of the oldest beings in creation, possibly God's equal, and stated that we would eventually kill God.

That didn't happen... and Amara claimed to be unfamiliar with Death. So... Death lied? Amara lied? Death isn't dead?

Who knows. Point is, this isn't the first time the show has introduced the idea that God was 'simply' a "really powerful being that can be killed"... and then they wrote around that by having Dean cut the supposed God-killer down with an obsolete farming implement.

So, maybe Amara means 'the End'... or maybe they'll just throw out another half-baked plot twist and keep going.


AZ: Remember that Death will reap God someday so it might all end with that.

The problem I have is reducing God and the Darkness to beings at all. I had a really hard time buying Death as a being until his meeting with Dean in Chicago. His whole attitude towards Dean, as utterly insignificant; that is IMO how these entities should exist.

Last season when Dean

Spoiler:
reaped Death
and the subsequent effect that's had just seems ludicrous. Death is a force, not a person. You can't escape it, outrun it or destroy it. Sure this is Supernatural so you can cast a spell or make a deal to AVOID death for a while but in the end EVERYTHING dies.

So by that note saying that Amara is a being that can be killed is insulting. The first couple episodes this season established that God COULDN'T kill her - couldn't, not wouldn't. So assuming that a mortal with a knife could take her down is nuts. But wth right?


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Mark Hoover wrote:
Death is a force, not a person. You can't escape it, outrun it or destroy it. Sure this is Supernatural so you can cast a spell or make a deal to AVOID death for a while but in the end EVERYTHING dies.

Everything still dies. We've seen that there are still reapers around, moving souls from the mortal world to the afterlife. The death of Death hasn't meant that things can't die, because he wasn't the only being doing that particular job.

Insofar as death having a personification, I don't have a problem with it. That kind of quasi-pantheism - where even abstract forces can have a physical manifestation - is hardly unique to Supernatural. Heck, it's not even like it's new to apply that to death, hence the Grim Reaper imagery we're all familiar with.


Aberzombie wrote:
...should be able to pretty much think the world into non-existence.

Metatron explained that people think God just hand-waved everything into existence but it actually took a lot of hard work. Even granting it's easier to destroy than to build, it stands to reason a being of equal power couldn't just hand-wave it all away.

Scarab Sages

Mark Hoover wrote:

AZ: Remember that Death will reap God someday so it might all end with that.

The problem I have is reducing God and the Darkness to beings at all. I had a really hard time buying Death as a being until his meeting with Dean in Chicago. His whole attitude towards Dean, as utterly insignificant; that is IMO how these entities should exist.

Last season when Dean ** spoiler omitted ** and the subsequent effect that's had just seems ludicrous. Death is a force, not a person. You can't escape it, outrun it or destroy it. Sure this is Supernatural so you can cast a spell or make a deal to AVOID death for a while but in the end EVERYTHING dies.

So by that note saying that Amara is a being that can be killed is insulting. The first couple episodes this season established that God COULDN'T kill her - couldn't, not wouldn't. So assuming that a mortal with a knife could take her down is nuts. But wth right?

Good points all around.


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Damon Griffin wrote:
Aberzombie wrote:
...should be able to pretty much think the world into non-existence.
Metatron explained that people think God just hand-waved everything into existence but it actually took a lot of hard work. Even granting it's easier to destroy than to build, it stands to reason a being of equal power couldn't just hand-wave it all away.

They've also pointed out pretty obviously that Amara isn't anywhere close to full power yet, hence why she's eating souls. Heck, at this point she had to push herself just to match Crowley, and even then she needed the element of surprise to get the drop on him.

I'm also a bit surprised that Metatron didn't note how the whole "creation is exhausting" thing is in the Bible - there's a reason why God had to rest after six days of creating the universe (e.g. a truly omnipotent being doesn't need to rest).

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