HtbM NPCs: Which really need to live?


Savage Tide Adventure Path


In the Sea Wyvern's Wake, certain NPCs were deemed "need to survive", which is made clear by their inclusion into the plot of Here There Be Monsters. But in HtbM, there is no "who needs to survive" sidebar.

So... who does need to survive? Are the 4 remaining NPCs (Urol, Avner, Tavey, and Amelia) all fit for the chopping block by the end of the adventure? Or should some of them survive for the next arc of the campaign?

Just want to know how many names I can cross off the list. It really shakes up a PC to have a "non-red shirt" die, so I was wondering how much lattitude i've got.


I normally dont self-bump, but I really would like an answer to this question. I've offed a few "red shirts" and have a break until the next term of college resumes in January, but I would like to know how "no holds barred" I can be with the NPCs.

Not to nag, the post was probably got buried under other replies and posts. Thanks in advance to any who respond!

Dark Archive

Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

I know at some point HTBM, the text mentions that if Urol is dead... So my guess would be that he doesn't need to survive.

Liberty's Edge

Not sure about the later adventures, but I don't think any of them "must" survive. Durning HTBM it mentions if any of them die at certain points, so I think they are mainly there for flavor.

I think I will probably award my PCs extra xp if they make it to Farshore with all the NPCs alive, or xp per NPC.


None

It's pretty clear that Bar Iguara starts picking off NPCs at night, and if it gets through all of them it will move on to PCs. The NPCs are there to add some interesting role playing possiblities to the adventure and to keep up the sense of danger and tension, but giving the island some easy victims.

The Black Bard wrote:

I normally dont self-bump, but I really would like an answer to this question. I've offed a few "red shirts" and have a break until the next term of college resumes in January, but I would like to know how "no holds barred" I can be with the NPCs.

Not to nag, the post was probably got buried under other replies and posts. Thanks in advance to any who respond!


The Black Bard wrote:

In the Sea Wyvern's Wake, certain NPCs were deemed "need to survive", which is made clear by their inclusion into the plot of Here There Be Monsters. But in HtbM, there is no "who needs to survive" sidebar.

So... who does need to survive? Are the 4 remaining NPCs (Urol, Avner, Tavey, and Amelia) all fit for the chopping block by the end of the adventure? Or should some of them survive for the next arc of the campaign?

Just want to know how many names I can cross off the list. It really shakes up a PC to have a "non-red shirt" die, so I was wondering how much lattitude i've got.

It might behoove you to let Amelia live... that way there's someone to help pilot the Sea Wyvern later on if none of the PCs can.

~ Bryon ~

Liberty's Edge

If you really wanted to set the (horror movie'ish) feel to the island, you could kill off all the NPCs. They could be drug off screaming into the night, carried off the cliffs by gargoyles only to be dropped onto the rocks below, could even replace the zombie in the ruins with one of the NPCs. Don't know why but I am coming up with some evil ideas today.

It's a good day to DM.

Liberty's Edge

DedmeetDM wrote:

If you really wanted to set the (horror movie'ish) feel to the island, you could kill off all the NPCs. They could be drug off screaming into the night, carried off the cliffs by gargoyles only to be dropped onto the rocks below, could even replace the zombie in the ruins with one of the NPCs. Don't know why but I am coming up with some evil ideas today.

It's a good day to DM.

Actually, this is kinda what I'd do if I was running it. A whole lot more n.p.c.'s would be around at the beginning of the scuttling of the Sea Wyvern,...a whole lot less would be around when the group traipses into town at the end.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

The reason the NPCs should survive "Sea Wyvern's Wake" is solely so that when "Here There Be Monsters" starts, the PCs have some NPCs to interact with. Once "Here There Be Monsters" starts, none of the other Sea Wyvern NPCs are protected; any of them can die without breaking the campaign plot. Depending on which ones die and which ones live, things may work out a little differently in Farshore in "Tides of Dread" of course, but the next adventure and the ones beyond that don't hinge on any of these NPCs being alive.

That said... the NPCs are also there to provide familiar faces for the PCs to get to know. Some might fire up rivalries with the PCs. Others surely become romantically involved with PCs. These NPCs should be characters, for the most part, that the PCs WANT to keep alive. That's one of the aspects of "Here There Be Monsters" that keeps it from a simple "walk through the wilds" adventure. You've got to take care to protect your friends along the way.

And once Farshore is reached, surviving NPCs can aid the PCs in many different ways as well.

Anyway, in the end, I'd advise NOT arbitrarily killing off any named NPC; keep as many around as you're comfortable running during "Here There Be Monsters," and let the dice and the actions of the PCs decide who lives and who dies.

Liberty's Edge

Though it becomes more of a burden on myself, I was thinking of adding a few personally-drafted NPCs to the mix - either as "stand alones" or cohorts to the already named NPCs. They would likely be weaker than the named NPCs, and some might not be completely flushed out until after the shipwreck.

Moving from the prior sea voyage into the shipwrecked adventure, I had originally envisioned more than just a few NPCs survived. My thought, in addition to the trials the lay ahead, would be the burden of seeing as many NPCs to safety as possible. Plus, the threat of arbitrarily picking off a NPC here and there as an added consideration may not be easy to pass up - particularly given the T-Rex, centipedes' chasm, the gargoyles and the bar-lgura. (Granted, I won't penalize the PCs XP-wise for the pre-designated number of "red shirts" to be picked off.)

Liberty's Edge

James Jacobs wrote:
Anyway, in the end, I'd advise NOT arbitrarily killing off any named NPC

Awww...no arbitrary killing of NPCs. Where is the fun in that? By the end of the session I like to see my players taking medication to keep their blood pressures down, and jumping at the sound of "Make a listen check."


Cool, those are the answers I needed.

No worries on arbitrary killing. I've got six "red-shirts" for that. I might nab a few of the named NPCs, beyond Urol. I was thinking Urol, then Avner (who will of course beg and plead and betray the party for any shred of mercy), and maybe Amelia (minor relationship between her and the sorceror).

I might actually have Ulangru maim Urol a bit. Maybe the whole Sin-City "he made me watch while he ate my fingers" thing. I was thinking Avner could betray the PCs, try to lead them into an ambush (No, really, I escaped and found the way out of this terrible place! Follow me!) whereupon after his deception is revealed he might scream "It said it would kill me if I didn't help it! It promised it would let me live if I did!" and then Ulangru pounces on him from cover and tears his arms off. (I use a converted version of the 2nd Ed Skills and Powers Critical Hit system) The PCs are getting close to raise dead and the like, it might be interesting to see how they handle Avner's unpleasant fate. They really don't like him as a person, especially after the unpleasant buisiness at the native village. They kind of expect him to die horribly, as a sort of cliche tribute. Maybe if I pull a "nobody deserves that, not even him" it might shake them up a bit.

Hmmm... this adventure does get the nasty ideas a flowin'!


The Black Bard wrote:
I was thinking Avner could betray the PCs, try to lead them into an ambush (No, really, I escaped and found the way out of this terrible place! Follow me!) whereupon after his deception is revealed he might scream "It said it would kill me if I didn't help it! It promised it would let me live if I did!" and then Ulangru pounces on him from cover and tears his arms off.

Sweet.


The Black Bard wrote:
I was thinking Avner could betray the PCs, try to lead them into an ambush (No, really, I escaped and found the way out of this terrible place! Follow me!) whereupon after his deception is revealed he might scream "It said it would kill me if I didn't help it! It promised it would let me live if I did!" and then Ulangru pounces on him from cover and tears his arms off.

Very nice, that... but unfortunately Avner didn't last long enough with our group. I wanted the T-rex to gobble him up immediately, but the darfellan character got in the way. However, the Olman spear trap later killed Avner EXTREMELY dead (5 hits reduced him to -19 hp immediately, not including poison). The stupid horse bought the farm, too.


Well, one clear alternative is to let more NPCs survive from the ship, just to create a certain level of expendables. Not to mention if any of the NPCs have become close to the party, or even become henchmen.

Since the fiend has certain illusion and sound-effect powers you could even consider having one or two NPCs vanish screaming to their dooms only to emerge alive in the final lair.


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I also had a number of undeveloped passenger NPC's wash up on the beach (ala "Lost") after the Sea Wyvern ran aground. This gave me a pool of bodies that could be "redshirted" Star Trek style without killing off the more interesting NPC's like Amella, Avner, Urol and Tavey, while still maintaining the suspense and horror of the journey.

Given the high PC mortality rate and extreme remoteness of the trip across the Isle of Dread I found it was somewhat difficult to plausibly introduce new PC's to the group after a player's character had fallen.
As a secondary use, this semi-anonymous group of NPC's also provided a source of new PCs. One of these undefined passengers would conveniently "rise to the occasion" after one of the PCs died. I even let the players choose names they liked for the passenger NPC's in case they needed a new character.

DM: "Ok, cross Winnie off the passenger list, she just got dragged off the cliff by the gargoyles and dropped into the sea."
Player: "Aww... she was one of mine!"

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