Hi! The dvati intrigue me very much but I can’t help but feel they are a bit of a missed opportunity mechanics wise (for me) and I was wondering how I could modify them into something more suitable for my needs?
I love twins in general and the whole duality, mythical/otherworldly status twins have.
I once played a pair of identical albino “thunder twin” dwarf fighters (basically me just running two characters in the party at once, sometimes its good not to have enough players ;)) the DM created an additional feat for the twins (they both had to use a slot for) that allowed a telepathic connection and gave them the ability to share damage if they wished. The feat was actually called “Two Bodies One Soul” funnily enough!
I love the dvati as they are one of the coolest concepts I’ve seen in a long time they’re fresh and I love how they put a whole new slant on the way characters work in the game. I like how they really are “two bodies, one soul” and rolled one up right away… but then, looking over the rules, one thing jumped right out at me; the dvati doesn’t get a full set of actions per twin?!
At first I thought they did but the Dm says otherwise; I think this kind of makes them too slow and pretty much a sitting duck in combat, especially with their favoured class being fighter?
I still like them a lot but I’m now working with the DM to make them a more appealing and balanced race (for me anyway) and allow for both twins to have a full range of actions per round? The Dm thinks this would be ok as it is just like a player running two different characters (only in this circumstance they really do need each other and if one dies its very bad?)
We are going to change their favoured class to psychic warrior (as they scream psionic to me) and might make each twin gain hitpoints normally instead of half each.
Has anyone had much experience using the dvati? Whats your take on the race? Is it balanced? Should we modify it or not?
Really? Well, it does make much more sense.
My DM says that for a dvati, a round of actions are split between the two twins? So if one twin performs a standard action (like attacking) the other twin can only do a move action etc… Strange...
I thought this was pretty dumb and messed up an otherwise good race so he agreed to change things, only he wishes to bump the dvati LA up to +2 or even +3? Which again nerfs them IMO.
I showed him this thread and he has allowed me to play a dvati (favored class: pychic warrior) without splitting the actions between twins now and gaining a full hitdie per twin, but for an LA of +2 and they are going to gain xp and levels as normal serparate characters do!
I hope it works out ok.
Bella Sara Charter Superscriber
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Did you check the errata? Kamelion is right that there is no such restriction in the text itself, but I thought one of the designers posted that the dvati could not each take a full round action. Try doing a search for dvati in the forums - you should pull up a couple threads about the race with a substantial amount of discussion.
Did you check the errata? Kamelion is right that there is no such restriction in the text itself, but I thought one of the designers posted that the dvati could not each take a full round action. Try doing a search for dvati in the forums - you should pull up a couple threads about the race with a substantial amount of discussion.
Sebastian is right... Someone posted a response from Mike McArtor that clarified the following:
Dvati share their actions, the pair having access to one full action OR a move action and a standard action OR two move actions.
Both parts of a dvati pair may move their move actions.
Only one part of the pair gets to use the standard action. spell or attack, it doesn't matter, they are limited to ONE standard action as a pair.
If you do a search, you should be able to find the thread (from last May, I think) where this was discussed. Sebastian started that thread (no doubt part of the reason he remembered it) and the title explicitly asked about dvati balance issues.
- Ashavan
Urgh...
I'm curious as to why. Why would they need to split their actions like that? Granted, I haven't read the actual rules on them yet, so maybe there's something I'm missing, but personaly I thought the spellcasting limit was bad enough, but this, this is a joke. With half their hitpoints from hit die I think their hindered enough, they don't need any modification to their actions in a round. The dvati are such a cool concept, that is in my opinion, ruined by their rules.
The only real problem I see with them is treasure division. Thinking from a players perspective (as in not the dvati's player) I would think it might be two bodies, but still only one person, so they should get one share of the loot. But as a gamer, that makes me wonder if they'll be effective at all in mid to high level adventures, where your power is largely based on the ammount of equipment you have. A fighter with two bodies needs twice the armor and twice the weapons. I think groups that divide treasure like this and also use the rules as writen with dvati dividing their actions would make the race completely unplayable, where if they just divided the treasure you would be at a hindrence, but effective enough to make it worth it if you realy like the concept.
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Bella Sara Charter Superscriber
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I'm curious as to why. Why would they need to split their actions like that? Granted, I haven't read the actual rules on them yet, so maybe there's something I'm missing, but personaly I thought the spellcasting limit was bad enough, but this, this is a joke. With half their hitpoints from hit die I think their hindered enough, they don't need any modification to their actions in a round. The dvati are such a cool concept, that is in my opinion, ruined by their rules.
The only real problem I see with them is treasure division. Thinking from a players perspective (as in not the dvati's player) I would think it might be two bodies, but still only one person, so they should get one share of the loot. But as a gamer, that makes me wonder if they'll be effective at all in mid to high level adventures, where your power is largely based on the ammount of equipment you have. A fighter with two bodies needs twice the armor and twice the weapons. I think groups that divide treasure like this and also use the rules as writen with dvati dividing their actions would make the race completely unplayable, where if they just divided the treasure you would be at a hindrence, but effective enough to make it worth it if you realy like the concept.
I agree. You should dig up the other old dvati thread - we tossed around a lot of these ideas. The other comparison is with the leadership feat. That also gives you two characters for the price of one and makes for a good comparison.
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I would think that things would remain balanced if you gave them each a full round action on their own. The bonuses seem to weigh fairly evenly with the penalties.
Bonus - Being a great flanker by yourself
Penalty - Taking a full round action with next to no HP means you are in arms reach.
Another bonus I thought of, but I'm not sure enough about the race to know if this is addressed, but do their stats work independently? For instance, if one took a strength penalty does the other take it as well or just the one? If each have their own sets of abilities then that could be a balancing factor for having to split up gear between two people.
The lack of split spellcasting ability seems to be the biggest drawback of this race, but with the split HP you probably don't want to go for a d4 class anyway.
There is a nice mental image of splitting an attack between the pair, letting one deliver a slash to the foes front and then the other to his back all in a single fluid motion.
(Also, am I the only one who gets a weird thought of all the old RPGs(like some zeldas) that would make you fight an enemy that would mirror you, stepping closer when you did or away and you would have to find some way to trick yourself to hit him?)