Wee Jas


Dragon Magazine General Discussion

Silver Crusade

Did anyone think the Core Beliefs article was rather Greyhawk-heavy this time around? I know Wee Jas is a Greyhawk deity, and her background from that campaign setting is certainly interesting, but I was expecting to see some material on how to adapt her to other campaigns (she is a core deity after all).

The article never got away from her connections to Suel humans, and discussed her relationships with a number of non-core deities. Again, not a problem in and of itself, but I think there should have been some material on how to run her if all those other things are not part of your campaign.

Any thoughts?


Celestial Healer wrote:
Any thoughts?

I'm a huge Greyhawk fan, so really, it made me happy. But I can certainly see your point - it was a tad heavy in the Greyhawk tie-in links. But my understanding is that the Forgotten Realms has its own set of gods and goddesses, as does Eberron, so were you thinking of something non-partisan? Maybe a bit of a "in your own campaign world, Wee-Jas can fill the roles of..." stuff?

Sovereign Court

I haven't received my issue of Dragon yet, but I do know a bit about Wee Jas' history. I imagine it would be difficult to explain why Wee Jas is a death goddess without explaining the Rain of Colourless Fire and the Suloise exodus. Wee Jas is possibly more connected to Greyhawk than most of the other core gods, with the exception of Vecna. I still find it strange that she became a core goddess in the first place. Why would you need Wee Jas in a non-Greyhawk setting if you already have Nerull and Boccob?


All the Greyhawk specific stuff was exactly what I was looking for, and it's one of the reasons I'm enjoying the series so much.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

Hagen wrote:
I haven't received my issue of Dragon yet, but I do know a bit about Wee Jas' history. I imagine it would be difficult to explain why Wee Jas is a death goddess without explaining the Rain of Colourless Fire and the Suloise exodus. Wee Jas is possibly more connected to Greyhawk than most of the other core gods, with the exception of Vecna. I still find it strange that she became a core goddess in the first place. Why would you need Wee Jas in a non-Greyhawk setting if you already have Nerull and Boccob?

Turns out, the article spends quite a bit of time talking about that. This one's my favorite of the Core Beliefs artice series yet (only a little becasue I'm currently playing a cleric of Wee Jas...)

Sovereign Court

James Jacobs wrote:
Turns out, the article spends quite a bit of time talking about that. This one's my favorite of the Core Beliefs artice series yet (only a little becasue I'm currently playing a cleric of Wee Jas...)

I especially like that Living Greyhawk replaced her Death domain with the Repose domain from Sandstorm. More appropriate as it makes Wee Jas look much more benign.

Liberty's Edge

I'm enjoying the opportunity to increase my ranks in Knowledge:(Greyhawk), as I've immersed myself much more in FR and Eberron in the past. With the advent of the Adventure Paths, though, it becomes much more relevant, and it's fun to discover that deities I once considered rather generic are actually multi-faceted and interesting as any Faerunian divinity (though perhaps not quite so meddlesome!).

So far, Olidamarra's my fave, but I was looking forward to the Wee Jas article in particular, as it directly addresses some basic philosophical tenets that came under question in the AoW AP, such as, "Why would a religion that guards its cemetaries against necromancers have Animate Dead as a domain spell?" and "How is the soul affected by the creation of undead?"

Thanks for helping our DM clear up at least a couple of Diamond Lake's moral ambiguities. :)


Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Adventure, Lost Omens Subscriber
Courtney! wrote:

it's fun to discover that deities I once considered rather generic are actually multi-faceted and interesting as any Faerunian divinity (though perhaps not quite so meddlesome!).

In one older sourcebook on Greyhawk (I don´t recall which one) was mentioned that the gods of Greyhawk had some sort of non-interference treaty (The Gods Prime Directive, so to speak) - if a good god would be allowed to interfere personally, one of the evil ones would as well. I´m not sure about the neutral ones, though.

Iuz is exempt from this, as Greyhawk is his home plane - the gods simply cannot forbid him to _be_ on his home plane.

So, this is why GH gods rely heavily on their mortal (and perhaps even immortal) agents, namely, the priests, thus moving the focus once again to the PCs and "normal" NPCs.

Oh, and the moral stance on animate dead etc. was very well done and reflected the LN alignment well. But the "reformed" Succubus was pure genius IMO. Great idea!

Stefan

Silver Crusade

Bram Blackfeather wrote:
Celestial Healer wrote:
Any thoughts?
I'm a huge Greyhawk fan, so really, it made me happy. But I can certainly see your point - it was a tad heavy in the Greyhawk tie-in links. But my understanding is that the Forgotten Realms has its own set of gods and goddesses, as does Eberron, so were you thinking of something non-partisan? Maybe a bit of a "in your own campaign world, Wee-Jas can fill the roles of..." stuff?

Yes. That's what I was hoping for.

The core deities in the PHB, while grounded in Greyhawk, are meant to be a default pantheon, and should be available even to those using a core-only game (non-campaign specific). I would have liked to see how she fits into a non-Greyhawk campaign using the default pantheon.

I felt the previous articles (Boccob, Olidammara, Pelor, and Vecna) all did this rather well, and I can see them getting a lot of application in non-Greyhawk games. This article was my least favorite article in the series to date.

Contributor

James et al, I know that when you write these articles you often have to cut certain portions so as to fit them in the magazine. Were there any interesting tidbits cut out of the CB: Wee Jas article? An "author's edition" would be cool - with the cut material put back in. Since that's not possible (you have to sell magazines, after all) if the author would care to share any info that didn't make it into print, I'm sure I'm not the only one that would be interested in reading what he has to say.

Liberty's Edge

EP Healy wrote:
I'm sure I'm not the only one that would be interested in reading what he has to say.

I'll second that motion. :)


I can understand people who only use core dieties having to omit any backstory involving other gods from their use. Although I would say you could run into the same problem in FR. Many of their gods are from different pantheons, such as Tyr and Mielikki would have Norse and Finnish backstory components.
I was quite shocked and disturbed to see Wee Jas having love added to her portfolio. I have always thought of her as the prime example of queen b#@ch among the gods, having the vanity aspect and being so demanding of her priests. Yes I understand the unusual relationship between herself and Norebo but that should not qualify her as a love goddess. Zeus fathered many children all from different mothers but he is not a love god. To me it just does not make any sense. If someone could shed some light on the subject I would greatly appreciate it.

Thanks

One last thought in no way take this as a negative to core beliefs. I am happy to see any Greyhawk references get their due.


I picked Wee Jas for a magor NPC in my STAP and was so over joyed to see this article.

Anyone want to give a shot at the stats on the succubus?

Contributor

EP Healy wrote:
An "author's edition" would be cool - with the cut material put back in.

I don't have my print copies of the issue yet so I don't know what (if any) was cut. IIRC the Paizo team has been pretty consistent on keeping all the content of my CB articles.


Baramay: I think the reason she's considered a love goddess is becuase of her vanity aspect. She focuses on the vanity of love, not the fluffy bunnies part.

I really liked this article as well. It shed light on a deity I'd always thought of as a lame becuase she shares so much in common with Nerull and Boccob.

Lantern Lodge

I happened to like alot of the ties to GH and the Suel people that were added in this article. It gave me insight I was always a little sketchy on and it pointed out exactly why Wee Jas is not a boccob Nerull clone.
I also have to admit I thought it was pretty spiffy how you find out Wee Jas "supposedly" stores away alot of her power so other gods will not bother her as much.


The article discusses Wee Jas's disapproval of creating (unwilling)undead and raising dead (requires a commune, chaotic creatures are usually rejected).

Kinda makes the death domain not-so-useful, with two spells that they likely won't use... unless there's an undead volunteer list out there.


seans23 wrote:

The article discusses Wee Jas's disapproval of creating (unwilling)undead and raising dead (requires a commune, chaotic creatures are usually rejected).

Kinda makes the death domain not-so-useful, with two spells that they likely won't use... unless there's an undead volunteer list out there.

I am playing a LN Cleric of Wee Jas in a friend's campaign. The DM allowed me to take the Mind domain, and I rarely use my death domain spells at all. I use the death touch ability occasionally to finish off a foe, but mostly I slot the Mind domain spells like the former Rary's spells and Brain Spider. As mentioned elsewhere, I adventure with a Paladin, so hordes of gibbering undead are not the order of the day anyway.

I really enjoyed that article a great deal. It was a little Greyhawk heavy, but Wee Jas is very GH-centric anyway and it was a well written, content heavy article which shed some very interesting light on an already fascinating deity. My DM agreed to let me use the adjusted summons list, and I got a few ideas to flesh out my character.


Celestial Healer wrote:
Did anyone think the Core Beliefs article was rather Greyhawk-heavy this time around?

You win some, you lose some. Typically, after any Greyhawk or Core specific article, there is someone who is unhappy that there is either too much or not enough Greyhawk material. It happens. This time around, there was more for Greyhawk.

I liked it.


Courtney! wrote:
...[the Wee Jas article] directly addresses some basic philosophical tenets that came under question in the AoW AP, such as, "Why would a religion that guards its cemetaries against necromancers have Animate Dead as a domain spell?" and "How is the soul affected by the creation of undead?"

I am completely puzzled by this aspect of the article following attempting to bring it into our game last night.

I have a 9th level cleric of Wee Jas in my AoW campaign. he has been busy touring around the unsociable parts of the world with undead zombies and the occasional skeleton as part of his dungeoneering entourage. I was excited to introduce this core beliefs article to the campaign and had Wee Jas's Planer Ally visit the cleric two nights before a big encounter to explain the issues around souls, necromancy, and chaotic raising.

The cleric's player balked out of game, saying that his cleric making zombies and skeletons does not mess with the soul at all. Wee Jas, he argued, would not be concerned if the cleric has made a zombie out of a Carrion Crawler or a Grimlock, as no souls are involved, and chaotic alignment is not a factor for these undead.

So I am stumped. How do we reconcile the death domain as a key part of being a lawful neutral cleric of Wee Jas?

Have I missed something from this otherwise very useful Core Beliefs article?


briguy wrote:

So I am stumped. How do we reconcile the death domain as a key part of being a lawful neutral cleric of Wee Jas?

Have I missed something from this otherwise very useful Core Beliefs article?

You have to remember two important things about Wee Jas: she considers the Suel more important than any other ethnicity, and she focuses more on the souls than the bodies. If you read the CB, you'll notice that the restrictions are generally on raise dead and its ilk, not on animation.

Simply put, you shouldn't give your PC grief about animating zombies, but they need to use commune before bringing anyone back from the dead.

Unless your version of Wee Jas is different, in which case, play on! :)

Liberty's Edge

briguy wrote:
So I am stumped. How do we reconcile the death domain as a key part of being a lawful neutral cleric of Wee Jas?

Do what the LG campaign did and switch it with the Repose Domain.

Scarab Sages

I found the article very inspirational. In the upcoming RPGA Return to the Ruins of Castle Greyhawk campaign I'm going to try out an Paladin of Wee Jas.

Patrick W.

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