All 4 have to do with character level.
First: Is ECL HD plus class levels or is it level adjustment plus class levels?
Second: Is a level adjustment any different from class levels as far as ECL concerned, gaining levels and chalenge rating for encounters
Third: What is the difference between ELC and HD?
Fourth: Why do some creatures in the MM have levels of <insert type here> and a level adjustment while some only have a level adjustment?
Thanks, these have been bothering me for a while.
All 4 have to do with character level.
First: Is ECL HD plus class levels or is it level adjustment plus class levels?
Second: Is a level adjustment any different from class levels as far as ECL concerned, gaining levels and chalenge rating for encounters
Third: What is the difference between ELC and HD?
Fourth: Why do some creatures in the MM have levels of <insert type here> and a level adjustment while some only have a level adjustment?
Thanks, these have been bothering me for a while.
Re: First: ECL = class level + HD + LA.
Re: Second: Not sure what you mean. Class levels obviously add tangible benefits and HD; LA's are simple abstractions (well, even more than HD) used to calculate ECL and determine when it is appropriate to allow certain races.
Re: Third: ECL is simply a number used to calculate the power of one character to another. As described before, HD count towards ECL. ECL is also used for determining the proper challenges and rewards to put before a party, just like character level is (since it is "effective" character level).
Re: Fourth: Again, not sure what you mean exactly. First, the symbols you used didn't show up in the text on the messageboard, and the only way I saw them was by replying to you. I believe you are refering to monsters with class levels? Level adjustments are constant for a race, regardless of how many levels and individual does or doesn't have. If the LA is +6, then the ECL will always be HD + class levels + LA.
Hope that helps some.
All 4 have to do with character level.
First: Is ECL HD plus class levels or is it level adjustment plus class levels?
Second: Is a level adjustment any different from class levels as far as ECL concerned, gaining levels and chalenge rating for encounters
Third: What is the difference between ELC and HD?
Fourth: Why do some creatures in the MM have levels of <insert type here> and a level adjustment while some only have a level adjustment?
Thanks, these have been bothering me for a while.
1) ECL = HD + Level Adjustment + Class Levels. In short, it is your Effective Character Level.
2) Level Adjustment is a mechanic of 'phantom levels' used to represent that a particular creature makes a more powerful player character than the standard races. I.E., if a player chooses a race that has a +2 LA, and has 5 class levels, then his character is considered to be as powerful as a 7th level character. That character is considered a 7th level character for XP, Encounter Levels, and starting wealth (so a L1 character with +2LA is a 3rd level character for starting wealth).
3) Hit Dice (HD) are dice rolled to determine a creature's hit points, /and/ determines other benefits such as skill points, feat acquisition, bonus stat points, and other 'level dependant' issues. Class Levels and HD are often interchangeable (but not always) because classes give out a HD at every level. Level Adjustment, as mentioned above, are 'phantom levels' that do not get a Hit Die, and therefore do not count toward such things as skill points, feats, stat points, or other 'level dependant' benefits.
4) I'm not entirely sure what you mean. Some creatures in the MM have a level adjustment of some number because they're considered 'suitable' for player characters in the sense that they're not particularly difficult to use. This means they have a reasonable intelligence score, they're sentient, they have at least two arms with hands and at least two legs, and their combined ECL is 20 or less.
There are some creatures with class levels in a Character Class, because those creatures (or some higher up in their society) commonly learn the ways of those classes, and the species as a whole doesn't commonly advance as a monster. They advance by class.
All 4 have to do with character level.
First: Is ECL HD plus class levels or is it level adjustment plus class levels?
Second: Is a level adjustment any different from class levels as far as ECL concerned, gaining levels and chalenge rating for encounters
Third: What is the difference between ELC and HD?
Fourth: Why do some creatures in the MM have levels of <insert type here> and a level adjustment while some only have a level adjustment?
Thanks, these have been bothering me for a while.
On the case of the second question, LA is/are an effective class level(s) for determining CR and xp rewards. The third is ECL=HD+LA+class levels. Some races have starting HD (centaurs, ogres, trolls, etc) and that represents their basic racial starting point before adding class levels, but in many cases the racial HD don't offer enough coverage for their abilities and a LA is needed to bring them into balance with normal race characters of comparable capability.
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All 4 have to do with character level.
First: Is ECL HD plus class levels or is it level adjustment plus class levels?
Second: Is a level adjustment any different from class levels as far as ECL concerned, gaining levels and chalenge rating for encounters
Third: What is the difference between ELC and HD?
Fourth: Why do some creatures in the MM have levels of <insert type here> and a level adjustment while some only have a level adjustment?
I am going to take a crack at this without breaking it up ...
You should pretty much only be looking at ECL (Effective Character Level) if you (or someone in your group) is looking at playing that particular creature as a character. As was said before, the ECL is Hit Dice plus Level Adjustment plus Character Level. The only real purpose of ECL is to have some kind of equivalency between more powerful races if a player wants to play a different race while still staying within the same power level as the other players. A 10th level ranger troll is much more powerful than a 10th level human ranger. Hit Dice is simply how many dice you have rolled to get your hit points. HD and ECL might be the same number but doesn't have to be are really two very different concepts. The creatures that have a Level Adjustment are the creatures that the writers thought that some player just might ask to play at some point in someone's career. If it doesn't have a Level Adjustment, the writer's were probably thinking "You have got to be kidding -- no one will want to play that as a player." People just shouldn't be wanting to play a Pit Fiend -- so why go through the hassle of trying to come up with an appropriate LA?
The tricky part (IMO) comes with the difference between CR and ECL. These are not necessarily the same. A player character playing a troll with regeneration all the time and with a rend ability that can be used every battle is a much different thing than one encounter with a troll that may use them a couple of times. Also, sometimes you would add half the character levels to the base CR if it isn't a "natural fit". A 5th level fighter Hill Giant is much more powerful than a 5th level wizard Hill Giant.
Good luck with this, but the bottom line (IMO) is that ECL is ONLY for determining some kind of equivalency between different player character race/class combinations.
Re: Fourth: Again, not sure what you mean exactly. First, the symbols you used didn't show up in the text on the messageboard, and the only way I saw them was by replying to you. I believe you are refering to monsters with class levels? Level adjustments are constant for a race, regardless of how many levels and individual does or doesn't have. If the LA is +6, then the ECL will always be HD + class levels + LA.
An Example:
Say in the ogre de4scription for the character race it would say "Ogres start out with x ammount of levels in giant which gives them...etc. etc."
While the drow description doesn't say that they start out with any levels of humanoid.
Why is this???
Hope that clears up the question, it doesn't realy have to do with gmae mechanics but it's just a question that came up a session.
Thanks
Say in the ogre de4scription for the character race it would say "Ogres start out with x ammount of levels in giant which gives them...etc. etc."
While the drow description doesn't say that they start out with any levels of humanoid.
Why is this???
This is because a race with only one racial hit die (such as Drow, Pixies, Planetouched, and any ECL 1 Race) trade out that one racial hit die for a class level. Other races, such as the aforementioned Ogre, along with Thri-Kreen, Gnolls, clear on up to the younger Dragons and those Outsiders which are supposedly playable, have to have all of their racial hit dice in place before they can take class levels -- you have to have a solid grasp on what you can do naturally before you can properly explore other options.
Also, to take my own crack at explaining the question of certain terms:
Character Level = Class Levels + Racial Hit Dice (Note that any effect which acts based on "Hit Dice", rather than "Racial hit Dice" acts on character level -- the total number of hit dice a creature has)
Effective Character Level = Character Level + Level Adjustment (or, if you prefer to think of it this way,) All Class Levels + Racial Hit Dice + Level Adjustment
The word "Racial" is key in those statements. Your ECL isn't equal to the sum of class level, total hit dice (including class levels!) and level adjustment.
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An Example:
Say in the ogre de4scription for the character race it would say "Ogres start out with x ammount of levels in giant which gives them...etc. etc."
While the drow description doesn't say that they start out with any levels of humanoid.
Why is this???
Ogre starts out with 4 "levels" of Giant. It has a CR of 3 and a LA of +2. Let's say that you give the Ogre 7 fighter levels. They are now a "Level" 11 creature. They have 11 HD (two different types). Giant levels give him bonuses to hit, saves, and feats (they should get 4 feats for normal progression and 4 more fighter feats). The Ogre is a CR 10. If a player wanted to play a fighter ogre and had 7 levels of fighter, this would be the equivilent (ECL) to a 13th level character (4 for Giant, 7 for fighter, 2 for LA). About the only thing that the ECL really has to do is to find some method of character equivilent and for dishing out and receiving XP.
Since the Drow doesn't have any monster levels, you just add the character level with the +2 LA. So basically a 7th level fighter ogre, an 11th level fighter drow, and a 13th level fighter human should all be pretty close to the same power level.
LA has a lot to do with extra ability modifiers as well as special abilities that the race may have. An ogre gives the character +10 to strength (which is huge) and +4 to Con, a 40' move, 10' reach, Darkvision, and +5 natural armor. That is a lot to give to a normal character in your campaign without some kind of compensation -- hence the +2 LA.
Hope that this helps.