Jkojreiouipo is an adventure for 322 54th-level characters...
Finally! An adventure for me and my 321 closest friends! Can't wait for this one to see print.
What D&D needs is an Infinite Civil War Crisis involving Greyhawk, Forgotten Realms, Eberron and Mystara, wherein half the major NPCs suddenly side with the devils in the Blood War while the other half do other stupid things. Elminster suddenly tries to subjugate Greyhawk to the forces of Law! Goes head-to-head with the Circle of Eight! Patriarch Rao allies with the Lords of Waterdeep and an army of warforged to invade the Empire of Shadows! Cormyr conquers the Dalelands with the help of the Scarlet Brotherhood! Zhentil Keep stays neutral but secretly plots to take over Sharn!
That would be cool, right? It would SELL!
Or not. Some genres shouldn't cross.
Actually, I kind of see the whole Vecna entering Sigil and altering the nature of the universe as kind of a Crisis on Infinate Earths in reverse (instead of one cosmology we now have several, etc.)
There was a Ravenloft book called "The War Against Azalin" or some such. One of Azalin's lieutenants was named "Tew Yssup."
I have a feeling the book was written by a 12-year old boy.
Referencing third-genre materials in D&D helps contextualize some precipitate information and eases explanation, but also results in metagame expectations if followed too closely. I'd prefer to avoid using such content, but don't usually become bothered by it if it doesn't jar the player's immersability.
As to constantly referencing previous first-party content, it does strike me as having the capacity to exclude newer players (which we badly need in the era of MMOs), but I find in most games when I'm dropped into the middle of something already big, I more readily become enamoured with it. More lore is better I find.
There was a Ravenloft book called "The War Against Azalin" or some such. One of Azalin's lieutenants was named "Tew Yssup."
That is tacky beyond words, especially given their target market. In a comic book for an older audience, fine -- but not here.
And that it got WotC's editing shows spectacular stupidity (on several levels).
I know very little about D&D history, this old school stuff I hear about, but I think they are helping bring back a golden age of D&D! Now all of us can relive the references of old... in our more modern style of course! As for the Academy... I thought it was a ripoff of Harry Potter... I had no clue it was ripped off of x-men, that makes it so much more cooler in my book.
I know very little about D&D history, this old school stuff I hear about, but I think they are helping bring back a golden age of D&D! Now all of us can relive the references of old... in our more modern style of course!
I sense some sarcasm here, but I actually agree... in fact, I think you just paraphrased almost exactly my post on the "Thanks, Paizo, for the Savage Tide" thread. Granted, repeated minute trivia references are sometimes annoying, but everyone who plays the game must have heard of the Isle of Dread by now.
Drive to Alabama. Purchase three boxes of instant grits. Fling the grits into the air. Puzzle over the flung grits until you make out some letters. Assemble the letters into a word. Use to word as the name of your city!
Or maybe, just maybe, I could write a letter of complaint to the makers of grits for calling them something so clumsy and unimaginative, or some other minutiae concerning grits that has little to do with the actual grits.
I could probably do either, I guess.
Bella Sara Charter Superscriber
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Or maybe, just maybe, I could write a letter of complaint to the makers of grits for calling them something so clumsy and unimaginative, or some other minutiae concerning grits that has little to do with the actual grits.I could probably do either, I guess.
Whatever floats your boat. I like the southern hospitality myself.
Also, those grits makers are notoriously unresponsive to complaint letters. But good luck with that.
Drive to Alabama. Purchase three boxes of instant grits. Fling the grits into the air. Puzzle over the flung grits until you make out some letters. Assemble the letters into a word. Use to word as the name of your city!Or maybe, just maybe, I could write a letter of complaint to the makers of grits for calling them something so clumsy and unimaginative, or some other minutiae concerning grits that has little to do with the actual grits.
I could probably do either, I guess.
Or maybe we could just agree that the best thing about grits is the way Flo used to ask people to kiss 'em. :)
Paizo is blessed to have so many well written and strong personalities present. This is a forum for ideas, and some of them may seem pedantic or narrow... but in my view almost everything discussed here is minutia. I didn't find Sebastian's grievance to be over the top but then if I had seen Greymalkin provided as the name of a wizard school in some adventure (I'm a few issues behind in my reading) I would have stopped reading right there. So his point of view reflects mine as well. The usage of parody cheapens the final product for some of us. It's personal preference is all.
Truth be told, though often brusque, Sebastian has personally saved the lives of ten of us here at Paizo when he lifted a bus off of us at Sheboigen-Con (RIP Delglath). It's hard to stay mad at him.
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My dad is from Minnesota and eats his grits with sugar on them.
My wife, being from the south, thought this was bizarre.
However, this girl I worked with (also from the south--she's descended from John Wesley Harding, the man so mean he once shot a man just for snoring) she eats watermelon with salt on it. I had never heard of that, and I thought maybe she had pica or something, but my wife said, yes, here in the south, people do eat watermelon with salt on it.
So what does this have to do with anything?
Beats me.
Oh, and John Wesley Harding had a bar in Micanopy, Florida for a while. Everybody there thought he was a real nice guy, and could hardly believe he was the wild assed Texan gunfighter he was. I think Micanopy is just a really laid back place.
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My two cents - outside or pop culture references in D&D dont really bother me. Anymore than Shakespeare or Tolkien or Lovecraft references do (but then Im probably more likely to notice or get the literary references than the comic ones). If I find the references too obvious or cheesy I might be inclined to change them (usually just a simple name change) for my campaign, but mainly its a non issue to me.
Pretty much the same feeling on the old school D&D references. However, as has been touched on before in this thread, it does mystify me a little when people think its "so awesome" when these older references are included in new adventures, and I think perhaps it may tend to alienate newer players if the references are too blatent - or if an otherwise average adventure is praised as "awesome" simply due to some of these references.
But, for example, I think the Age of Worms adventure path WAS really awesome, and I lost count of all the old school references, plot points, characters, concepts (and indeed the entire POINT of the adventure path) in there.
I hate okra though. My mom's from Minnesota too, and she tried to cook it once. It was bad. I can't even stand the smell of okra anymore. It's roont for me.
Taken away by the Wolves of Calla and roont?
Nah. Only way to eat okra is pickled!
And rakshasa and their weakness to holy 'pointy' things - that's so Kolchak the Night Stalker
Let's not forget that the only way to kill a zombie is to fill its mouth with salt!
Nah. Only way to eat okra is pickled!
Deep fried, or in gumbo. As far as southern hospitality, my mother required that I learned how to make the traditional New Year's meal.
Consequently, I can make a kick ass pot of black-eyed peas and ham, collard greens and cornbread.
Oh, and I can make mint juleps. :)
I crave sweet tea (from Bill Miller's Barbecue) in a bad, bad way. Damn Yankees up here look at me funny when I say I want sweet tea.
However, this girl I worked with (also from the south--she's descended from John Wesley Harding, the man so mean he once shot a man just for snoring) she eats watermelon with salt on it. I had never heard of that, and I thought maybe she had pica or something, but my wife said, yes, here in the south, people do eat watermelon with salt on it.So what does this have to do with anything?
Beats me.
As for pop culture references... WTG on that time/life books reference. we are SO the same age. And I can't believe you know about pica. I myself love to eat typewriters and the eatin's good because everyone throws theirs away.
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I hate okra though. My mom's from Minnesota too, and she tried to cook it once. It was bad. I can't even stand the smell of okra anymore. It's roont for me.Taken away by the Wolves of Calla and roont?
Nah. Only way to eat okra is pickled!
I know. Can you see the ever so subtle reference to a book rife with comic book references?
"Somebody saved my life tonight..."
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I know. Can you see the ever so subtle reference to a book rife with comic book references?
"Somebody saved my life tonight..."
Thanks a buttload, Pere Callahan, I'm gonna be humming that all day now.
And for the record, okra is wonderful! It's great in gumbo, but best when it's fried and served with broiled trout and a very cold glass of unsweetened ice tea. It's been scientifically proven.
"someone saved, someone saved..." Damn you.
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Bella Sara Charter Superscriber
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Truth be told, though often brusque, Sebastian has personally saved the lives of ten of us here at Paizo when he lifted a bus off of us at Sheboigen-Con (RIP Delglath). It's hard to stay mad at him.
I appreciate the kind sentiments Jade, but now my secret identity is known!
Comic book references in Wolves of the Calla? Nonesense. Next you'll be telling me there were star wars references and the actual mention of Harry Potter.
I can assure you, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that "Graymalkin" was not a comic book reference...
It relates back to Macbeth, but it was the name I chose for a wizard's academy during a campaign I ran about 15 years ago...the players were all apprentice wizards, and the first part of the campaign took place in Greymalkin Academy. The adventure has a connection back to that campaign, and I kept the name "Greymalkin" as an homage to the players who participated.
So, I it is an "in joke" of sorts, but not one that would apply to more than 4 or 5 people!
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Bella Sara Charter Superscriber
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I can assure you, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that "Graymalkin" was not a comic book reference...
It relates back to Macbeth, but it was the name I chose for a wizard's academy during a campaign I ran about 15 years ago...the players were all apprentice wizards, and the first part of the campaign took place in Greymalkin Academy. The adventure has a connection back to that campaign, and I kept the name "Greymalkin" as an homage to the players who participated.
So, I it is an "in joke" of sorts, but not one that would apply to more than 4 or 5 people!
Great. Now I have to figure out some paranoid way to twist your words to support my conspiracy theory. Just terrific.
Well, now that I stand officially corrected, I apologize for calling the use of Greymalkin an uncreative and obvious riff on the X-men when no such event occurred outside of my own little bubble of reality (and, I suppose it should be said, that even if such a riff had taken place, it must not have been so obvious since I'm the only one who "caught" it). The preview for the adventure accompanied by the name planted that seed in my head. It's actually refreshing to know it was a coincidence and not a comic book inside joke.
Anyway, I'm off to find more obscure references in Dungeon adventures. I understand that the word Gambit has arisen in James Jacobs' work...
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I can assure you, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that "Graymalkin" was not a comic book reference...
It relates back to Macbeth, but it was the name I chose for a wizard's academy during a campaign I ran about 15 years ago...the players were all apprentice wizards, and the first part of the campaign took place in Greymalkin Academy. The adventure has a connection back to that campaign, and I kept the name "Greymalkin" as an homage to the players who participated.
So, I it is an "in joke" of sorts, but not one that would apply to more than 4 or 5 people!
Great. Now I have to figure out some paranoid way to twist your words to support my conspiracy theory. Just terrific.
Well, now that I stand officially corrected, I apologize for calling the use of Greymalkin an uncreative and obvious riff on the X-men when no such event occurred outside of my own little bubble of reality (and, I suppose it should be said, that even if such a riff had taken place, it must not have been so obvious since I'm the only one who "caught" it). The preview for the adventure accompanied by the name planted that seed in my head. It's actually refreshing to know it was a coincidence and not a comic book inside joke.
Anyway, I'm off to find more obscure references in Dungeon adventures. I understand that the word Gambit has arisen in James Jacobs' work...
Actually, your last name wouldn't happen to be "Shaw" would it???
Great. Now I have to figure out some paranoid way to twist your words to support my conspiracy theory.
Good luck with that. ;)
I can assure you, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that "Graymalkin" was not a comic book reference...
It relates back to Macbeth, but it was the name I chose for a wizard's academy during a campaign I ran about 15 years ago...the players were all apprentice wizards, and the first part of the campaign took place in Greymalkin Academy. The adventure has a connection back to that campaign, and I kept the name "Greymalkin" as an homage to the players who participated.
So, I it is an "in joke" of sorts, but not one that would apply to more than 4 or 5 people!
lol... I would have read it as X-men incorrectly myself and went off in an incorrectly righteous huff. Thanks for the correction, Mark.
::egg on face.::
Anyway, I'm off to find more obscure references in Dungeon adventures. I understand that the word Gambit has arisen in James Jacobs' work...
Not to mention six adventures in the last two years in which a 'storm' has taken place! AHA!
That's why they need to change "rouge" back to "thief."
(fakey check. testing. testing. I know how to spell.)
Not to mention a complete ban on all dire wolverines in all future adventures.
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I can assure you, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that "Graymalkin" was not a comic book reference...
It relates back to Macbeth, but it was the name I chose for a wizard's academy during a campaign I ran about 15 years ago...the players were all apprentice wizards, and the first part of the campaign took place in Greymalkin Academy. The adventure has a connection back to that campaign, and I kept the name "Greymalkin" as an homage to the players who participated.
So, I it is an "in joke" of sorts, but not one that would apply to more than 4 or 5 people!
Great. Now I have to figure out some paranoid way to twist your words to support my conspiracy theory. Just terrific.
Well, now that I stand officially corrected, I apologize for calling the use of Greymalkin an uncreative and obvious riff on the X-men when no such event occurred outside of my own little bubble of reality (and, I suppose it should be said, that even if such a riff had taken place, it must not have been so obvious since I'm the only one who "caught" it). The preview for the adventure accompanied by the name planted that seed in my head. It's actually refreshing to know it was a coincidence and not a comic book inside joke.
Anyway, I'm off to find more obscure references in Dungeon adventures. I understand that the word Gambit has arisen in James Jacobs' work...
Now I'm confused. I don't know if I should be pleased because there actually were no in-references for me to pick up (so I wasn't missing anything) or annoyed at being drawn into a debate that ultimately rested on a fallacy (thanks to Sebastian - grrr). Maybe I'll just fade quietly into the background and hope no one noticed.
Great. Now I have to figure out some paranoid way to twist your words to support my conspiracy theory. Just terrific.
...Anyway, I'm off to find more obscure references in Dungeon adventures. I understand that the word Gambit has arisen in James Jacobs' work...
Don't worry about it...I think there's another thread around someplace that assumes that the "Graymalkin" adventure is a take-off of Harry Potter and Hogwartz...some days you just can't win...
:-)
Don't worry about it...I think there's another thread around someplace that assumes that the "Graymalkin" adventure is a take-off of Harry Potter and Hogwartz...some days you just can't win...
:-)
Unforgivable. It is the writers responsibility to know every possible genre and know them enough to avoid any possibility of a percieved similarity to a past work so that readers are not led to make hasty assumptions and/or complaints. ;)
Someone get a rope and hang this man. :D
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In response to what Mothman asked a while back, and though I haven't read the adventure, I believe "Man Forever" has some Batman references. What exactly they are, I couldn't tell you.
Not to worry, Sebastian. When I saw Greymalkin Academy, my first thought was the X-Mansion as well. I think equating a school training young wizards with the Mansion based on the name is quite an honest mistake. As I haven't read that adventure yet either, does the gruff character of Nogal that was referenced earlier in the thread actually exist?
Hey, what's all this zombie-killing talk. What did we do to deserve such hostility?And rakshasa and their weakness to holy 'pointy' things - that's so Kolchak the Night StalkerLet's not forget that the only way to kill a zombie is to fill its mouth with salt!
Hmm, let me see that bag of chips you're eating. Ah ha! Unsalted!
GGG
There was a Ravenloft book called "The War Against Azalin" or some such. One of Azalin's lieutenants was named "Tew Yssup."
I have a feeling the book was written by a 12-year old boy.
And what is so humowous about that? I have a wery, wery good fwiend in Wome....
Give a zomb' a cocola and sum pop rocks. Good times.
Try baking soda and pop rocks. More fun will ensue.
Or mentos & cola. Lots of hilarity.
Did someone say Diet Coke (tm) and Mentos (tm)?
That's the one. :P
Did someone say Diet Coke (tm) and Mentos (tm)?
We (my gaming group) attempted that experiment in the parking lot of my apartment complex. Hooo boy. I don't know what was more enjoyable, watching the first bottle (we didn't use a live test subject) explode or trying to escape from the second, possessed bottle.
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Director of Sales
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We (my gaming group) attempted that experiment in the parking lot of my apartment complex. Hooo boy. I don't know what was more enjoyable, watching the first bottle (we didn't use a live test subject) explode or trying to escape from the second, possessed bottle.
We tried this experiment... At first it was all fun and laughs...
Then young Tom Smith went down. He was... what? 18? 19? Just a kid, man.
That's when the Diet Coke (tm) started really falling hard. It was every man for himself.
You can't understand it, man! When the Mentos (tm) are hitting the Diet Coke (tm) you don't know which way is up!
When it was all done, we'd lost sixteen good men that day.
*sigh*
Wait... What was this thread about again?
cos
(Practicing my thousand-yard stare)
(/threadjack) (No, really!)
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In response to what Mothman asked a while back, and though I haven't read the adventure, I believe "Man Forever" has some Batman references. What exactly they are, I couldn't tell you.
Not to worry, Sebastian. When I saw Greymalkin Academy, my first thought was the X-Mansion as well. I think equating a school training young wizards with the Mansion based on the name is quite an honest mistake. As I haven't read that adventure yet either, does the gruff character of Nogal that was referenced earlier in the thread actually exist?
Oh thanks, yeah, I didnt get the exact references either.
I just picked up issue 140 last night and just finished reading Greymalkin Academy adventure now. Obviously theres some similarities to Hogwarts (and probably Xaviour's academy too), but I think ANY wizard school is going to be compared to Harry Potter and Hogwarts for years to come. But of course, the idea of wizardly schools and colleges is much older than that.
I'd like to see an adventure based on Unseen University myself ... ;-)
Hey, what's all this zombie-killing talk. What did we do to deserve such hostility?And rakshasa and their weakness to holy 'pointy' things - that's so Kolchak the Night StalkerLet's not forget that the only way to kill a zombie is to fill its mouth with salt!
Sorry Aberzombie. That was a reference to GGG's Karl Kolchak statement...y'know the Night Stalker...I just thought it was cool someone still remembers that show. Anyways, we now resume with regular programming.
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Sorry Aberzombie. That was a reference to GGG's Karl Kolchak statement...y'know the Night Stalker...I just thought it was cool someone still remembers that show. Anyways, we now resume with regular programming.Hey, what's all this zombie-killing talk. What did we do to deserve such hostility?And rakshasa and their weakness to holy 'pointy' things - that's so Kolchak the Night StalkerLet's not forget that the only way to kill a zombie is to fill its mouth with salt!
I just saw that episode again on Sci Fi channel a few months ago. Good stuff.
And there was this lady I worked with from India, and I told her I thought so-and-so was a rakshasa, and she said, a "what?"So I explained to her what it was, and she said, "oh, you mean a (and then she pronounced it correctly)" it sounds really cool
pronounced authentically. Then she busted out laughing.
I just saw that episode again on Sci Fi channel a few months ago. Good stuff.
And there was this lady I worked with from India, and I told her I thought so-and-so was a rakshasa, and she said, a "what?"
So I explained to her what it was, and she said, "oh, you mean a (and then she pronounced it correctly)" it sounds really cool
pronounced authentically. Then she busted out laughing.
Just so we're on the same channel, are we talking about the classic, cheesey 70s series with Darren McGavin, the Spanish Moss monster and a really bad looking werewolf (played by none other than Victor Newman of Young and the Restless)? Or is this the new series? I haven't seen any of that yet.
Just curious...