(I posted this over on EnWorld and got little response, but I am interested in feedback, so please comment.)
This is part 1 of my New Skill System. I want to bounce these ideas off others to get some feedback. This system was inspired partially by Spoony Bard on EnWorld. The purpose of the system is to simplify skills by combining similar skills with each other. Here are the basics.
The new skill rules contain 20 skills in all. Some have not changed or have not changed much. Others have been folded into another skill or combined with other skills to create a new skill. Still other skills have been split and some of their abilities moved to other skills. The names of the old skills (and the key ability for those skills) along with the new skill they have been converted to are shown below:
Appraise (Int) => Lore (Int)
Balance (Dex) => Acrobatics (Dex)
Bluff (Cha) => Chicanery (Int)
Climb (Str) => Athletics (Str)
Concentration (Con) => Concentration (Con)
Craft (alchemy) (Int) => Alchemy (Int)
Craft (all skills, taken individually) (Int) => Profession (Wis)
Decipher Script (Int) => Lore (Int)
Diplomacy (Cha) => Influence (Cha)
Disable Device (Int) => Disable Device (Dex)
Disguise (Cha) => Chicanery (Int)
Escape Artist (Dex) => Acrobatics (Dex)
Forgery (Int) => Chicanery (Int)
Gather Information (Cha) => Influence (Cha)
Handle Animal (Cha) => Handle Animal (Cha)
Heal (Wis) => Heal (Wis)
Hide (Dex) => Stealth (Dex)
Intimidate (Cha) => Influence (Cha)
Jump (Str) => Athletics (Str)
Knowledge (all skills taken individually) (Int) => Lore (Int)
Listen (Wis) => Alertness (Wis)
Move Silently (Dex) => Stealth (Dex)
Open Lock (Dex) => Disable Device (Dex)
Perform (all skills taken individually) (Cha) => Perform (Cha)
Profession (all skills taken individually) (Wis) => Profession (Wis)
Ride (Dex) => Handle Animal (Cha)
Search (Int) => Alertness (Wis)
Sleight of Hand (Dex) => Sleight of Hand (Dex)
Sense Motive (Wis) => Sense Motive (Wis)
Speak Language (none) => Speak Language (none)
Spellcraft (Int) => Alchemy (Int) and Spellcraft (Int)
Spot (Wis) => Alertness (Wis)
Survival (Wis) => Survival (Wis)
Swim (Str) => Athletics (Str)
Tumble (Dex) => Acrobatics (Dex)
Use Magic Device (Cha) = Use Magic Device (Cha)
Use Rope (Dex) = Acrobatics (Dex) and Athletics (Str)
Characters no longer put ranks into skills. There are three levels of skill training: non-proficiency, proficiency, and mastery. Characters who have non-proficiency in a skill can make a check using the skill but they use only their key ability modifier and any circumstance bonuses or penalties. Characters who have proficiency in a skill gain a bonus on skill checks equal to 1 + 1/2 character level (rounded up). Sometimes proficiency in a skill also grants additional uses of that skill. Characters who have mastery in a skill gain a bonus on skill checks equal to 3 + character level. Sometimes mastery in a skill also grants additional uses of that skill.
All characters have non-proficiency in a skill by default. However, a character can acquire proficiency or mastery in a skill by spending skill points. Classes no longer receive skill points at every level. Instead they gain a set number of skill points at first level (plus a bonus number of skill points equal to their Int modifier) and at certain levels thereafter they gain additional skill points. One skill point earns a character proficiency with a skill. Two skill points earns a character mastery with a skill. Any character, even a 1st level character, can have proficiency or mastery in a skill as long as the skill is part of that character's class skill list. A character may gain proficiency in a skill that does not show up on his class list, however such a character must spend two skill points and can not gain mastery in that skill.
Each class gains a number of skill points at 1st level equal to the number of skill points that character normally would receive at each level (e.g. 4 for a barbarian, 6 for a bard, etc.). Characters that gain 2 skill points at 1st level gain an additional skill point at levels 10 and 20. Characters that gain 4 skill points at 1st level gain an additional skill point at levels 5, 10, 15, and 20. Characters that gain 6 skill points at 1st level gain an additional skill point at levels 3, 6, 9, 12, 15, and 18. Characters that gain 8 skill points at 1st level gain an additonal skill point at levels 3, 5, 7, 9, 11, 13, 15, 17, and 19.
The new class skill lists are simple to determine. If a skill changed, then a class gets the new skill as a class skill, even if it didn't have other skills that might have been folded into that skill. The Use Rope skill for the ranger is the only exception to this rule (although rangers retain Athletics so they still retain some of the benefits of the Use Rope skill).
A character does not gain bonus languages based on Intelligence. Instead, a character can learn new a new language by spending one skill point (except for bards who learn two languages for each skill point spent). Speak Language does not differentiate between proficiency and mastery, you either know a language or you do not. Languages learned at 1st level must come from the character's bonus language list. Languages learned thereafter (such as when a character gains a bonus skill point at a later level) may be any language.
Below is a sample new skill, Acrobatics, and how it differs from its component skills in 3.5. Otherwise the skill works exactly as described in its component skills. I've attached a Word document with the updated Acrobatics skill for those who wish to see what it looks like in its new incarnation.
Acrobatics (Dex; Armor Check Penalty)
-An Acrobatics check made to escape bindings is opposed by the binder's Athletics check.
-Any character can attempt a soft fall (as long as speed is not reduced by armor or encumberance) with an Acrobatics check as per old Tumble rules.
-A character can secure a grappling hook with an Acrobatics check as per the old Use Rope rules.
-Acrobatics proficiency is required for tumbling past an opponent without provoking an attack of opportunity.
-A character with mastery in Acrobatics is not flat-footed while balancing, gains a +3 dodge bonus to AC when fighting defensively and +6 dodge bonus to AC when using total defense.
-A character gets a +2 synergy bonus on Acrobatics checks if the character has proficiency in Athletics. A character gets a +4 synergy bonus on Acrobatics checks if the character has mastery in Athletics.
That's it for part 1. I will elucidate some of the reasons behind these changes in part 2 as well as presenting several new incarnations of skills.
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1st thoughts;
Looking at your list you have only 20 skills total.
With rogues recieving 8 skill points at 1st level it would be possible for a single dip into rogue class to master any 4 skills of your choice (more if your a human with high intelligence)
For a 10th level character thats the equivalent of 52 skill points!
Now lets say this 10th level character is a human 9th level ranger 1st level rogue with 14 intelligence, his total skill point expenditure is as follows:
Human 1
14 INT 2
1st rogue 8
1st ranger 6
3rd ranger 1
6th ranger 1
9th ranger 1
TOTAL 20! - hes now mastered half the skill list! and given that hes probably not got access to the whole list hes probably mastered almost all his skills.
In addition, continually dipping into other classes and prestige classes will provide more and more skill points. IMHO this is the biggest flaw of your system.
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To fix it I would suggest basing skills on a character level not class level and perhaps grant new skill points each character level with access to all skills granted by all previous classes. I would also consider revising the way skills are gained at 1st level from a class.
for example; 1st level characters recieve say double their Intelligence bonus in skill points at 1st character level.
Characters gain 1 skill point at every odd character level (3rd, 5th, 7th, etc).
Each class provides proficiency in certain skills equal to their starting skill points (8 for rogue, 6 for ranger) to cover required skills for that class (concentration and spellcraft for wizard for example).
If the character already has proficiency the points are lost. The proficiency does not become a mastery.
(example if a bard had spellcraft as a proficiency and then took a level in wizard he would gain proficiency in spellcraft but since he already has that it is ignored)
Some example skills
fighter 2 - Handle Animal, Athletics
wizard 2 - Concentration or Lore, Spellcraft
ranger 6 - Handle Animal, Survival, Alertness, Stealth, Lore, Athletics
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Regarding the skill combines I'm not sure making craft and profession the same is a good idea - craft represents the creative process while profession represents the providing of a service.
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Lastly I would consider how this change affects certain class features such as Thief-Acrobat and feats such as Alertness.
Final comments: I like the idea of combining some of your skills using the current skill point system in the SRD. I've always thought the skills where too many and the points too few. However, I think your system would benefit from a more expanded list rather than a shortened one.
Hope that helps :)
Regards,
..Q..
Thank you for the feedback. You have pointed out one very important thing I forgot to clarify and I'm glad you mentioned it. One of the things that mitigates the possibility of taking one level of a class like rogue just to master several skills is that you only use the level of classes that have that skill as a class skill. So a 10th level fighter who takes a level of rogue and spends his skill points on Alertness, Chicanery, Disable Device, and Stealth gets only a +4 to those skills.
Another thing I failed to mention is that this rides on the coat-tails of my house rules for multiclass characters. Multiclass characters IMC are similar to AD&D multiclass characters without racial level limits. So it is possible I could also decide that only your levels in a specific class apply to those particular skills. So for instance, a fighter 4/rogue 6 with athletics mastery for his fighter skills and alertness, chicanery, disable device, and stealth mastery for his rogue skills would only get a +7 to athletics, even though athletics is a rogue skill as well, because only his fighter levels are devoted to athletics. This gets sticky though. What if he has athletics proficiency as a rogue and mastery as a fighter? Does he get +11 or +16? If former it is not too far from what a typical D&D character would have if he had maxed ranks in a skill. If the latter then it is higher than what the typical character would have and that seems like a loophole. Perhaps simply a blanket rule is in order such that classes must have the same level of training in a skill for the skill bonuses to stack, otherwise you use the highest. For in our fighter 4/rogue 6 example, the character would have +7 to athletics. If he spent a skill point from his rogue class to get proficiency, that would only give him +4, so he would use the +7 from fighter, which is higher. However, if he spent two skill points in rogue to get mastery, that would allow him to stack the two, giving him +13.
Even still, the sample ranger/rogue you give would only be able to master 10 skills, which is only half of the skills in the game. While that seems like a lot, part of the reason (which shall be elucidated in part 2) for this change is to give characters access to more skills, which I think is probably a good thing for the game in general.
I did actually toy with the idea of a system that grants specific proficiencies based on class, but I moved away from that system because I want classes to be more flexible than that. However, a possible quick fix is to simply allow the 1st level in a class to grant ONLY proficiency and not mastery. However, I don't know if I like that as it waters down the abilities for some classes. While a rogue can master his first skill at 3rd level, the fighter, for instance, might have proficiency in influence and athletics but he can't master either until 10th level!
I also originally pondered on the idea of just adding skill points at set levels instead of basing it on class, but that has the opposite problem. Using a skill point every odd level for instance, a 10 Int human fighter (with only four skills) runs out of things to spend his skill points on by 11th level. Hence I decided that the number of skill points earn by the class over the course of 20 levels needed to be commensurate with both the number of class skills and (more importantly) the number of skills received at 1st level. It isn't exact, but you will find the skill lists are roughly balanced in this sense.
To address your concern about combining Craft and Profession, this is honestly more of a game balance decision. I recognize the distinction between the two and the simulationist within me cries foul at combining them, but I believe in the end this simplification is worthwhile. The bottom line in the decision is that neither are common choices for PCs. In some campaigns, they are more useful than others, but I believe most players look at them as essentially the same thing: "These are roleplaying skills dealing with a trade my character has learned that I probably won't use in the game." In fact, I considered calling the skill "Trade" for a while, but decided the ambiguity of the word "trade" made that a poor decision. I didn't want PCs asking to make a "trade" check against Eritol the Shopkeeper to convince him to trade the PC his +3 longsword for the PC's +1 dagger. lol ;)
I'm not sure which class benefits you are refering to. I do not think I added in any uses to the skill which were not there before. I just moved them around. As for feats like Alertness, they are gone, a relic of the past, and it's about time I might add. Many characters are so starved for feats they often neglect them. Skill Focus remains however, and under this new system it becomes much broader in application and therefore probably a better choice for many characters.
Thanks again for your comments. I do indeed appreciate the feedback. It has been most valuable.
Hey Airwalker! Glad to see that you've found the paizo boards! (or maybe found it a long time ago and just started posting) I don't have anything constructive to say about your skill system, just wanted to drop you a 'Hi Ho!' Oh, and I like your avatar here better than your Enworld one.
You've mostly replicated the very slick system in Levi's Perfect 20. He reduces his skills to 15 and has a different name for skill ranks (Known and Specialty), but it's mostly what you have.
Steal from him-- his licence encourages it.
Thanks for the info, Delveg. I may indeed mine that for resources. It looks very neat and interesting. I don't think it is as similar to mine as you believe however. In the spectrum between 3e and AD&D, his is a bit closer to AD&D with the weapon proficiencies and such being molded together with skill proficiencies. Additionally, I don't quite comprehend how the bonus works. Nevertheless, I like the way weapon and armor proficiency works as it is so I don't see a need to adopt that. I might borrow some ideas concerning types of skill checks though. Thanks for pointing me there. :)