Great comments, guys. And Hi back, Alex. I need to wing an email over to you...
Anyway, I don't think 3.5 or any version of D&D will ever be "fixed". Why? Because how you play is up to the individuals playing. That is what makes D&D superior to any electronic gaming platform; it's dictated by imagination. For instance, I play in an AoW campaign and my paladin wants to propose marriage to the Diamond Lake resident paladin of Heironeous (forget her name). I can't make decisions like this in a computer game constrained by it's programmer.
I frequently see on these boards many house rules debated, supported and flamed. This is because the vanilla rules can never satisfy everybody and we all like to put our twist on things. So whether it's first or fourth edition, it'll never suit everyone.
As for cost effectiveness, consider the amount of after-sales support D&D has had since 3.x. Since 2nd ed, we've had the emergence of the internet, which has given us the opportunity to discuss issues about the game much more easily than ever before. Could you have discussed the polymorph rules with TSR staff back in the eighties? No way! It just wasn't feasible. However, today I am happily typing on a messageboard which gets the attention of some of the best game designers in the business. Surely this after sales support (WoTC website in particular) costs money that just wasn't spent on earlier editions and may be a factor when Hasbro muses over the furture of the product.
Anyway, I'm rambling and I'm not even sure if the above makes sense. All I know is I love the game as it is now and if it starts to go by the way of the Dodo, commercially at least, I will be happy in the knowledge that there is a massive gaming community online ready to pick up the pieces. :)
Many former roleplayers I am aware of have turned to computer games for their fix. I do think that roleplaying is a dying artform, but hopefully it will be reinvigorated in the future (I don't know how or when or why, I just hope).
I don't agree with the idea that RPGs are a dying industry. Certianly in the heyday of 3rd/3.5 edition RPG sales where higher then they had ever been at anytime prior. The industry had came out of a low point and came out strong. That said the situation has certianly dropped off in the last few years.
I don't think that computers are really a serous competitor for RPGs as a whole. The actual experience between playing RPGs on a computer and playing a table top version are to different and the computer version simply is not a particularly better format for playing RPGs. Its often a more convient but somewhat inferior format.
Compare that to Wargames. I love wargames but the table top wargame is definitly dying and with good reason. I owned at one point a pretty big shelf of wargames but table top wargaming can't effectivly compete with computer wargaming.
Computer wargaming offers all the convience of being able to play the game at home. Wargaming really is not that much a co-opertive endevour, usually you just have your side and you make all the important descisions for your side. If you have to talk with allies or whatever doing so by email is often as good as doing so in person. You don't need to have your opponents there in person - just some means of interacting with your opponent and a computer interface is great for that if your opponent can just send his turn by as soon as he gets around to it. Thats good for you because in the end the game probably develops faster, instead of a turn being done every thursday evening you and your opponent can do your turns any day of the week whenever you get some time. Furthermore there is a much larger chance of the game actually being finished.
Finally the computer adds to the game. It allows for secret movement and for realistic limited intelligence. Stuff that is a big part of the military conflicts we are trying to play out but that was impossible or at least horribly cumbersome without a computer.
These days I have put all my board wargames into storage where they collect dust and yet I am able to play my wargames far far more then I was ever able to play them when we used a board. The game itself is better as well.
RPGs are not like that. The computer is more convient but thats about all it has going for it. Otherwise its conventions limit what we can do generally too much and it adds little in terms of needed or desired features to the game itself. Plus roleplaying is all about getting together and driving the DM to the brink of insanity while creating a shared story and cracking one liners that have the rest of the table in tears. Can't do that very well via computer.
None of this is to say that computers can't support the hobby. They are great for that. I'd love a much more powerful DM program - but the DM program is not wanted or needed during the game itself.
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4E... I have dreamed about 4E as soon as 3.5 hit the shelves.
Areas *I* would like to see improved and changed:
Skills and feats.
They have done a great job of them, greatly improving them over 1E and 2E. But I just don't think they are quite right yet. I do think Monte Cook has done a great job of improving on them in Iron Heroes, but still one more notch up and we just might have it.
But you know what... that's all I would want changed. Not enough for a real 4E.
So, a better suggestion would be put 4E off for another 5 years. Instead I would like to see some consolidation of the D&D books. I would leap at a Complete Feats book. Last night a friend and I were looking for one feat and we had to go through six books. That is nuts.
Along those lines... Completes Classes, Complete Spells etc.
Come on who wouldn't jump at a chance for this.
Now, having these books may or may not undermine the sales of the supplemental books they derived from, so I doubt it is something WizCo will want to do. Can't blame them.
HOWEVER... a complete INDEX, updated annually would be nice... maybe just a PDF. List all the feats, spells, classes, equipment, rules etc, by book and page. I would imagine they have to have something like this already for in house use, otherwise they would need to have a GREAT therapy rider on their insurance. And so far there have been no rumors of editors and staff being hauled off to Arkham.
HOWEVER... a complete INDEX, updated annually would be nice... maybe just a PDF. List all the feats, spells, classes, equipment, rules etc, by book and page. I would imagine they have to have something like this already for in house use, otherwise they would need to have a GREAT therapy rider on their insurance. And so far there have been no rumors of editors and staff being hauled off to Arkham.
This list already exists on the WotC Homepage:
[URL] http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/tools[/URL]
consolidated lists
These lists are nigh-indispensable, although I would like to see the spell list as encompassing as the other lists - spells are spread over dozens of sourcebooks as well, and I guess not all are listed in the Spell Compendium.
Back to topic, I could easily wait another, say, five or so years until D&D 4. And I don´t even need 3.6 or something like that. The additional material is just that. If I choose to integrate any additional material, I´ll just keep it at hand, and if it is only a minor addition, I´ll make a copy from the page in question (as I did with the Greyhawk specific feats from Dragon 315 and 319) and put it in my binder.
So, no D&D 4 for me in the next time.
Stefan
Stefan
Heh heh... y'know my best friend and I have joked on occasion about the "possibility" of D&D 4e. And I think I'm with the majority on this (although I was skimming the last few posts) I'm okay with the current edition. Sure it's a little bit maddening if you are looking for a specific feat and not sure what book it's in, and there are now so many character classes to choose from it's sometimes hard for my players to make up their minds (unless I help 'em out by "restricting" some books), but that's human nature (I think anyway) we want choices, if we don't have 'em we complain, if we have too many (we complain). Wow... it is easy to ramble on and say almost nothing of substance. Sorry. Here's a better way to make a point/comparison. 2e came out in 1989 right? 3e hit the shelves in what 2000? (That's an 11 yr gap between editions) Although I guess you could say skills & powers was something like 2.5 :P But that's still a nice long period between possible new editions. I still don't think 4e is necessary, I like things as they are, but I really don't know HOW a 4e would affect me. It would depend on what it brought to the game table. Like 3e gave us lots of "new" things that 2e didn't have or didn't do well. 4e would need to do that, to have that from the get go. And it would probably NEED to be world-neutral (but any NEW) settings would need to use its rules system (like how Eberron was created to be compatible with 3.5 rules.) Well I'm almost rambling again. Time to make dinner. Hamburgers and macaroni & cheese (homemade stuff not the kraft blue-box stuff.) Later 'Gators!
I'm pretty happy on the whole with 3.5--there are things that could be improved but on the whole it's just easier to stick with the system you know and tweak it here and there.
I also think, from a marketing perspective, that 4e will happen when Wizards becomes unprofitable to Hasbro--at that point, there will be a crisis, the rights to the brand will be sold off to someone else, who will then have to redesign, revitalize the game, and launch a new marketing campaign that hooks a new generation of teens (mostly) to thirty year olds.
Who knows, some of the people on these boards might be hired to do the redesign. *Looks in druidic scrying pool* I see some young people who look like Saern and SexiGolem (not that I've seen anything but their icons) taking over the reigns of the D&D world from the current powers of the gaming world, and making a game that has grown a bit stale once again exciting and fresh and new, so that even my generation of gamers will by the 4e books (well, at least if you give us AARP discounts).
;)
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HOWEVER... a complete INDEX, updated annually would be nice... maybe just a PDF. List all the feats, spells, classes, equipment, rules etc, by book and page.
While WotC has the Feats, prestige classes and a few other handy lists, the spells only include the Player's Handbook and the Spell Compendium.
If you want a fairly complete and easy to use spell list (and creature list) that includes pretty close to all the official sources, you should check out http://mikehost.homeip.net/dload.php?action=category&cat_id=3. I have found these to be very handy. And there are a number of Excel based generators that are actually rather powerful as well.
As far as 4th edition goes -- it will most likely come out. If WotC is smart, it will come out when the industry needs it to. I don't think that it will be soon, and that is for the best.
Bella Sara Charter Superscriber
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I also think, from a marketing perspective, that 4e will happen when Wizards becomes unprofitable to Hasbro--at that point, there will be a crisis, the rights to the brand will be sold off to someone else, who will then have to redesign, revitalize the game, and launch a new marketing campaign that hooks a new generation of teens (mostly) to thirty year olds.
Wizards becoming unprofitable would have a lot more to do with the Magic line and/or the minatures line than the D&D core books line. D&D books don't really make much money (particularly when compared to Magic).
Remember when WOTC was touting the new "delve" format for publishing adventures (then we never heard anything more about it)?
Maybe WOTC wants 4th edition to be based on that?
It ties things in with their minis line even more. Perhaps the rules for 4th edition will end up being exactly the same as the miniature game rules.
As much as I like using battlemats and minis during my roleplaying session, I would prefer the option to run a game with nothing but a rulebook, character sheets, pens and pencils, and imagination.
Tying it to the minis game would be a bad thing, IMHO.
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Bella Sara Charter Superscriber
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Remember when WOTC was touting the new "delve" format for publishing adventures (then we never heard anything more about it)?
I may be reading too much into a brief teaser, but I think they're using that format (or a variation on that format) in the new Ravenloft module.
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=products/dndacc/953937200
This campaign arc adventure is designed for characters of levels 6–10 and features a new, easy-to-use combat encounter format. This book also presents new magic items, feats, and prestige classes for player characters.
I don't believe that there will be a 4E any time soon. WoTC & Paizo keep in close contact, and I could not see WoTC wanting Paizo to come out with "Savage Tide" being a 3.5E format that will be ongoing for the next year, if they planned on the release of 4E. There will in all probability be a 4E but not for a few years at the very least. I do know one thing for certain, I have the vast majority of DnD products from their very beginnings and I really enjoy the 3.5 format, so this will my last edition I will partake in.
Peace out
If 4E comes out (and it will....one day) I would like the current problems with this edition de be resolved...
-skills...too few skill points, some not usefull all career long (craft, profession mainly). Maybe make skills and Knowledge skills separate. Fighters can never make good generals because they have 2 skill points and they know how to ride and jump...no Knowledge (tactics) or something of the sort.
-Spellcasters need some tweaking. Monte Cook gives some good ideas here: http://www.montecook.com/cgi-bin/page.cgi?otherd20_Spellcasters
-Tweaking the saving throw progression...a spellcaster without Greater spell focus can't even a spell to land at higher levels.
If they make a 4E it would need to be a significant upgrade...what about doing away with class and have open options from the start, like chosing your save, BAB, feat, HD and skill progression, spellcasting abilities. Have it on a point buy format and each type of progression cost points, so you can really customize your build...just a thought.
It doesn't matter what 4E will be like. My group and I have enough 3.5E material to keep us gamiong for a long time, and will not buy into 4E.
You can expect a lag of published material around 3-6 months before the release of 4E. Releasing 3.5E stuff a week before 4E hits the shelves is bound to make some people VERY angry.
I'm in partial agreement with Chris Manos. I have a wealth of 3.5 material that I can use for quite some time. What is more, I enjoy 3.5. If a 4th edition comes out, it will have to knock my socks off for me to want to purchase and convert to it. My expectations for 4th edition would be sky high. It better be innovative yet intuitive and make me feel like I've been wasting my time playing other systems.
If it is more like what 2nd edition was to 1st or 3.5 was to 3rd then no thank you. Simple consolidation of skills (like merging Move Silently and Hide into Stealth) or giving all spell / power users a point based system of casting will not be what I'm looking for. You can already house-rule this stuff. I happen to like the differences, both mechanically and flavorwise, between wizards, sorcerers, psions, etc.
I almost feel bad for the people in charge of making 4th edition. To me, it will have higher and more unreachable expectations than "The Phantom Menace."
As said earlier in this thread. Our group has enough 3.5 stuff. We don't have many problems with 3.5 So we will stick with this system.
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Many former roleplayers I am aware of have turned to computer games for their fix. I do think that roleplaying is a dying artform, but hopefully it will be reinvigorated in the future (I don't know how or when or why, I just hope). I am quite certain that 4e will do nothing to help this cause. They just need to keep revising 3.5 until they have it perfected. Of course, having an interest in game design means that I will be buying 4e if it comes out. That's just the way it is.
While I certainly am in no hurry to see 4e ... especially given how much I've invested in 3e/3.5 ... I acknowledge that it is inevitable. Taking your comment, one situation that I've heavily advocated for is to make future releases more computer-friendly. A lot of people, myself included, keep the game alive via the internet. To have access to electronic copies to carry with you wherever you go, cut and paste and share, etc. seems a prudent move. (This too would be a godsend for tabletop playing for those of us with laptops.) Mind you, I still love the books. (Same with Dragon and Dungeon.)
In the end, I support a "best of both worlds" approach.
1. WotC.
a. Books for $x.
b. .pdfs of the books for $y.
c. For people who buy both, a discount on the .pdf, resulting in $z.
2. Paizo.
a. Magazines for $x.
b. .pdfs of each issue for $y.
c. For people who buy both, a discount on the .pdf, resulting in $z.
Note that between WotC and Paizo, Paizo could accomplish this better given that it has subscribers. That said, WotC could always try a similar concept - a book of the month club, if you will:
Subscribers could get a list of titles and if they say "yes," they'd pay, it'd be mailed, and they'd be registered as having purchased the hard bound, which opens the door for the discounted .pdf.
Unfortunately, my idea doesn't bode well for store purchasers, but I am sure that there would be a way to have an insert in each book that could be removed at the register and stamped by the store and sent in as record of purchase, thereby allowing for a discount on the .pdf.
In the end, I have no problem for .pdfs to be of a base cost equal to hardbounds (absent buying both) so as to discourage net losses in hard bounds. (Again, I still love the books and mags.) But people who buy the books and mags shouldn't be penalized for wanting to have a second electronic copy, especially given how cheap it is to produce a .pdf as opposed to a hard back.
Note that this avenue also opens the door for another concept:
With the .pdfs, there may be a software program that could consolidate the various sources. (Or perhaps it's not .pdf, but something else.) In the end, it'd be sweet to have feats, monsters, spells, equipment, etc. from ALL your books consolidated into master compositions.
Moreover, this would make including erratas into preexisting electronic files that much easier.
I wonder whether a simple .exe data program would be the trick?
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Releasing 3.5E stuff a week before 4E hits the shelves is bound to make some people VERY angry.
Let's face it though. For many gamers, this is a drug of sorts. People will complain and moan, but a great many will still succumb to keeping up with the lastest trends and buy into it. They won't be happy about it, but they'll do it.
I for one, attempted to keep up with all the 3e releases until I realized that I never could without severe impacts on my budget ... and likewise, just can't read and implement things as fast as they come out. I've since slowed down exceedingly in my purchases, seeking books, e.g. FRCS supplements, that may withstand the tests of time for all their fluff.
...
I almost feel bad for the people in charge of making 4th edition. To me, it will have higher and more unreachable expectations than "The Phantom Menace."
LOL, I agree. Expectations are a terrible thing, especially in the internet age.
Will I buy 4th edition, whenever it comes out? Sure, just like I bought AD&D, 2nd Ed, 3.0 (we just called it 3rd edition at the time), 3.5. And on a related note, just like I bought Greyhawk, Dragonlance, Forgotten Realms, Eberron, Spelljammer, Oriental Adventures, Dragon, Dungeon, etc.
As someone else said earlier, even if I bought a book and and either a (magazine/pack of minis/new dice/real miniature + paint supplies) a month, that still works out to be a pretty good use of money considering how much time I spend playing DnD a month.
Figure $50 a month on DnD stuff, vs 4 sessions at 4 hours each, plus other time spent reading the new book, talking on the boards, painting the mini, etc.
Thats cheaper than most forms of entertainment. And I consider it money well spent usually.
You have to look at 4E in terms of what the biggest seller for Wotc is right now. 4E will not be a change in the sense that 3E was a change for 2E. 4E will be an incorporation of the Miniatures that has become so popular lately. Wotc is going to follow the money trail and right now, that trail leads to Miniatures becoming the new wave of DnD.
This way, they can continue to put out supplements for 3.5E to carry the RPG line forward while adding the Miniatures to expand into the area that will make them the most cash.
IMVHAHO
Jeff
A 4th edition of d20 D&D is a given, the devil is in the details and the timing.
Presuming it goes the same way as the rather rapid employment of 3.5 D&D, from 3.0 D&D, we're looking at a continual release of 3.5 product right up until the release of 4.0, which will promptly render the bulk of the 3.5 materials obsolete. At that point, once again there will be three core rules books which are subsequently followed up for several years on a monthly or bi-monthly schedule of supplemental materials.
What will 4th edition (which I'd read as more accurately being 6th or 7th edition ...) be like ? There the possibilities are endless. It could be deliberately simplified even further, balancing the Wizard to a more even keel with the divine spellcasters and retaining the crappy skill points allocations. They could even dragoon the spellcasters into two generalized classes (arcanist and divine chaneller ?), with class abilities/options up front for refining the character concept in line with clerics, druids, sorcerors, specialist wizards, various "Cultural" variants and so forth. They could simplify the rogue type into a similar bent, with class abilities selected from a single base class structure to simulate becoming ninja, thieves, scouts, ad nauseam. They could also do a simplification of the warrior class, with class abilities chosen to become Fighters, Knights, Cavaliers, Bubbarians, Rangers, Paladins ...
They could even simplify the skills too, given how many skills are essential to survival that are not generally accessible to most characters. The basic premise of the skills system for d20 is sound enough - the # of skill points available with which to keep characters from getting ambushed is not.
Feats likewise are so numerous and prolific (with the interwoven webbing between the 2 dozen or so "WoTC core" books that interconnects the core PHB and MM feats with the "new" feats from the Complete et al books) that the standard advancement and selection process require a disturbingly high degree of character specialization ... and sole reliance upon that specialization in order to have a character survive and thrive. They could instead encourage a well-rounded character concept (attuned to the four core class concepts) that would enable long-term survival and playability in nearly all kinds of adventures and campaigns.
However, since the bottom line (profit) is the driving factor for any business, I would be very surprised if they went to simplify class structures, skills and feats in that fashion. Granted, it is plain to see that the game is structured around the "classic four" core class concepts, with all other core and prestige classes designed around them as variants and specializations upon the "basic" four. I suspect that barring a truly HUGE change in the basic feel and nature of the game, a 4th edition would be built around the newer, money-making concepts that have come into play: core rules, regularly published supplemental play materials, "game official" miniatures [which, granted, is not a bad idea at all ... I like having a foot-tall Colossal red dragon 'mini' to klunk on the table at my disposal ...] - heck, maybe even re-absorb Paizo itself back into the fold in order to *gasp* produce adventures for purchase of the shelf to play on a regular basis as in the days of old. (More frequent, but how many people remember Against the Giants, the Tomb of Horrors, Expedition into the Barrier Peaks, the Slave Lords series, the Temple of Elemental Kind-of-Evil, the various other Letter-Number module series which all sprang from the fatigue-addled brains of Those Who Ran Tournaments at Conventions ...)
As the other five or six dozen posters have indicated, a 4th edition elicits all kinds of speculation. I just wanna know where to get in on the playtesting for it ...
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I have to agree with Saurstalk about the electronic versions for 4E. We are in the 21st century now.
Sure I understand that with PDFs it is easier to buy just one copy of a book and distrinute it to everyone in your gaming group, thus resulting in lost revenues.
But let's face reality, it already happens. People scan the books and distribute them over the web all the time.
I'm a photographer and long ago decided not to fight the trend of people to scan and use my pictures without my consent. Instead I embraced the concept and worked high res images suitable for printing into my offerings. Best of both worlds. They'll do it anyway so make some $$ and let them do it legally.
I would like to see 4E much more computer compatible. It should include good tools for managing campaigns, battles, characters, etc. Sure those things are out there now, but they are all 3rd party stuff. WizCo should do it and make the money on them. My favorite at the moment is PCGEN. Now if WizCo had come out with something like that, and it allowed integration with all of its products and supported 3rd party material I would pay for it, no problem.
Besides I think that nearly all of the RPGers out there would LIKE to legally support WizCo and other companies and not have to pirate stuff, but the fact is the companies are not making the products the people want. So as a result we get piracy.
I have to agree with Saurstalk about the electronic versions for 4E. We are in the 21st century now.
Sure I understand that with PDFs it is easier to buy just one copy of a book and distrinute it to everyone in your gaming group, thus resulting in lost revenues.But let's face reality, it already happens. People scan the books and distribute them over the web all the time.
Yeah, but it's extremely rare that an entire book gets scanned and shared. It'll be rampant if WotC produces pdf versions of the rules.
I would like to see 4E much more computer compatible...
Me too. But, on this topic, I've read that computer programs are very much a niche market -- they don't offer nearly the return on investment that Hasbro appears to demand.
My two cents :)
Jack
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Yeah, but it's extremely rare that an entire book gets scanned and shared. It'll be rampant if WotC produces pdf versions of the rules.
Hah no it's not. Check any of the major filesharing networks. You could build an entire high-quality D&D .pdf library in as long as it take you to download a couple gigabytes.
Almost every issue of Dungeon starting with issue #1 to present can easily be located an downloaded. It's turning into a big problem for publishers. If WOTC keeps insisting on incredibly high MSRP's on their books, the problem will only get worse.
...If WOTC keeps insisting on incredibly high MSRP's on their books, the problem will only get worse.
This comment makes me curious -- what wouldn't be considered incredibly high?
The implication here is that they could (and choose not to) offer the magazine at a lower price -- what supports such an opinion?
Regards,
Jack
As said earlier in this thread. Our group has enough 3.5 stuff. We don't have many problems with 3.5 So we will stick with this system.
Exactly.
I have to agree with Saurstalk about the electronic versions for 4E. We are in the 21st century now.
Sure I understand that with PDFs it is easier to buy just one copy of a book and distrinute it to everyone in your gaming group, thus resulting in lost revenues.But let's face reality, it already happens. People scan the books and distribute them over the web all the time.
I'm a photographer and long ago decided not to fight the trend of people to scan and use my pictures without my consent. Instead I embraced the concept and worked high res images suitable for printing into my offerings. Best of both worlds. They'll do it anyway so make some $$ and let them do it legally.
I would like to see 4E much more computer compatible. It should include good tools for managing campaigns, battles, characters, etc. Sure those things are out there now, but they are all 3rd party stuff. WizCo should do it and make the money on them. My favorite at the moment is PCGEN. Now if WizCo had come out with something like that, and it allowed integration with all of its products and supported 3rd party material I would pay for it, no problem.
Besides I think that nearly all of the RPGers out there would LIKE to legally support WizCo and other companies and not have to pirate stuff, but the fact is the companies are not making the products the people want. So as a result we get piracy.
I tried the computer based gaming for a while using DMGenie. Really good generator and very good at running a campaign. However, after a while the games felt, well, cold. I mean they had no soul. The machine had taken over, even to the extent that players were asking me what equipment and how many hit points they had left!
I know it can come down to how much you indulge in the electronic format, but if 4E goes electronic as it's preferred medium, you have lost the choice and D&D will have lost something special.
I tried the computer based gaming for a while using DMGenie. Really good generator and very good at running a campaign. However, after a while the games felt, well, cold. I mean they had no soul. The machine had taken over, even to the extent that players were asking me what equipment and how many hit points they had left!I know it can come down to how much you indulge in the electronic format, but if 4E goes electronic as it's preferred medium, you have lost the choice and D&D will have lost something special.
As much of a technophile that I am, I don't like computers at the game table. It really is a distraction for me. About the only time I really use them is for prep-work. Obviously, this is my opinion, but I think using a computer to control things really tends to crush any semblance of free will. I may be reading more into this than necessary, but if you have something that represents structured order and logic sitting at the game table and you (as the DM) is constantly using it, for me, as a player, that tends to make me think that my options are going to be limited.
Just me, of course.
I'd have to agree with Lil on this. My computer is used for organizing all my notes and for development. When I sit down at the table, however, it's just a stack of paper behind the screen. I've toyed with the idea of plopping my laptop behind there, but it just doesn't seem to fit the RPG vibe.
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I'd have to agree with Lil on this. My computer is used for organizing all my notes and for development. When I sit down at the table, however, it's just a stack of paper behind the screen. I've toyed with the idea of plopping my laptop behind there, but it just doesn't seem to fit the RPG vibe.
True, that's how I use the computer. But I have dozens of files to track. NPCs, locations, treasure, PCs and stuff... and the plot oh yeah there is that too.
I'd love a real nice program that pulls ALL that in one location for me. I've been writing a program for about a year now when I get time (not much to spare). A great PC and NPC generator, a way to track NPC interactions, etc. These all things I need between games.
But on the other hand, at the table it would sure be nice to pull out one computer and look up that one rule we need, rather than the combat come to a halt because one guy needs to do something obscure and just whines if we gloss over the rules with an impromtu ruling (does not happen in my group, but I KNOW it happens). We do occasionally get bogged down in flipping through dozens of books looking for a particular feat or spell.
I personally don't think individual books are overpriced. However in bulk they can quite expensive. I know I have over $1000 in books (don't tell my wife!)
True, that's how I use the computer. But I have dozens of files to track. NPCs, locations, treasure, PCs and stuff... and the plot oh yeah there is that too.
I'd love a real nice program that pulls ALL that in one location for me. I've been writing a program for about a year now when I get time (not much to spare). A great PC and NPC generator, a way to track NPC interactions, etc. These all things I need between games.
But on the other hand, at the table it would sure be nice to pull out one computer and look up that one rule we need, rather than the combat come to a halt because one guy needs to do something obscure and just whines if we gloss over the rules with an impromtu ruling (does not happen in my group, but I KNOW it happens). We do occasionally get bogged down in flipping through dozens of books looking for a particular feat or spell.
I personally don't think individual books are overpriced. However in bulk they can quite expensive. I know I have over $1000 in books (don't tell my wife!)
Mmm...sweet Wiki goodness...(Screenshot only, but it's a list of how I'm keeping my campaign organized.) I add rules/mechanics stuff to my wiki so I don't have to haul a load of books around if I don't need 'em. Plus, it's a handy way to link pages together.
An offline program that does a similar thing is Tomboy, but that's a Linux/Unix thing. Wiki on a Stick is great as well, really good for thumb drives and similar devices. (I keep it on my USB thumb drive - sometimes, a lot of times, really - I get a good idea at work and need to jot it down.)
Hiya.
Y'know, if Wizards is smart, they'll make D&D 4E backwards compatable with the source books, much like Warhammer did, to avoid alienating the existing customer base.
Of course, that limits their ability to change the game, but I think a radical change of the system will lose customers.
Heheehe....not likely. I foresee 4e being announced next year, with actual release at the end of '07 (definitly by '08). It will be about as "compatible" with 3.5e as 3e is with 1e/2e....in other words, not really compatible. All the hundreds of dollars (or thousands, if you got suckered into the whole 'gotta catch em all' minitures), worth of 3.5e *will* become useless in the space of a year or so.
Oh, sure, a lot of you say "We'll stick with 3.5e, it works fine". It's a nice sentiment. And if you started your gaming career with 3e (as opposed to 1e/2e or earlier), you have a chance of sticking to 3e. However, most everyone else...not a chance. Y'see, someone at the table will pick up a 4e PHB..."just for fun". He'll read it. He'll like something (or a few somethings). Table talk will commence. A few sessions later, he picks up the 4e DMG, and one or two of the other players has picked up 4e PHB so they could read it themselves. Another few sessions, and someone says "Hey, why don't we use this/that/the other rule from 4e? It's perfect for this situation." It gets added. Someone misses a session, and everyone decides to give 4e a shot "just to see how it works"...you'll get back to your real 3.5e game next session. Then a few more 4e books make appearances at the table. Another rule here, then there, then someone says they want to run a 4e game, to 'give the DM a break for a while'. Next thing you know, you have been playing 4e for the last 9 months, and all your 3.5e stuff is collecting dust.
There's only one thing left to do at that point...apply for your official "Old Grognard" card that all us 1e/2e folks carry around and just embrace the fact that you don't have to spend money EVER AGAIN on RPG stuff because your favored game edition is never gonna (likly) see print again. :) Welcome to the club, boys n' girls! ;)
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As I mentioned once, I don't give anything about 4th edition. It will do some things better, some things worse, but in any case it will mean that any supplement previously bought won't be compatible any more. I own a few 2nd edition supplements and I own a whole shelf of 3rd edition material. So when 4th editon comes out, I will be out, too, and probably hide in the "old edition corner". ;-)
My reason for replying is a different one, though.
Lilith, thanks for your software tip ("Tomboy"). :-) I am just installing it on my ubuntu system. It sounds as if it could be a real help for notes and organizing information afterwards.
If I just knew how to run the last few necessary windows programmes on Linux. Still tinkering with various emulators...
Greetings,
Günther
Y'know, if Wizards is smart, they'll make D&D 4E backwards compatable with the source books...
That would defeat the purpose of 4/e -- if it's not something everyone feels obligated to buy, there's no reason to develop & market the product. Don't go thinking Hasbro is going to approve anything just to make the game better :/
Of course, that limits their ability to change the game, but I think a radical change of the system will lose customers.
On that note, I don't think there's room for radical change -- I hope I'm right.
Regards,
Jack
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Bella Sara Charter Superscriber
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Y'know, if Wizards is smart, they'll make D&D 4E backwards compatable with the source books...That would defeat the purpose of 4/e -- if it's not something everyone feels obligated to buy, there's no reason to develop & market the product. Don't go thinking Hasbro is going to approve anything just to make the game better :/
It's a shame we don't have a case study showing that people will feel obligated to buy a new edition, even if it only contains modest revisions. If onlt WotC had released a new edition of D&D about four years ago - we might be able to predict the effects of such a product.
I guess it will forever remain a mystery...
It's a shame we don't have a case study showing that people will feel obligated to buy a new edition, even if it only contains modest revisions. If onlt WotC had released a new edition of D&D about four years ago - we might be able to predict the effects of such a product.
I guess it will forever remain a mystery...
LOL
I've found people (including me) are suckers. "If you build it they will come."
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It's a shame we don't have a case study showing that people will feel obligated to buy a new edition, even if it only contains modest revisions. If onlt WotC had released a new edition of D&D about four years ago - we might be able to predict the effects of such a product.
I guess it will forever remain a mystery...
Sorry, Sebastian, you make less and less sense when you talk about your favourite topic. :p
For most people out there proclaiming and buying of new editions are not hobbies of their own... :ppp
Greetings,
Günther